Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

boggerman1

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Are those numpties going to get Urea testing up and running this year? Missed the last AGM

Excuse my ignorance,have seen it referred to here by others but what is milk urea test and its significance.

boggerman1

Gdt up 2.6%.volume sold 18,000 tons approx.

Buford T. Justice XIX

boggerman1 wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance,have seen it referred to here by others but what is milk urea test and its significance.

It shows the Urea in milk and helps farmers adjust their feeding to get the Urea below 25, I think.

If too much protein or too little energy, the urea levels rise so less protein and more energy is needed in the diet.

I think I have that right.

Buford T. Justice XIX

boggerman1 wrote: »

Gdt up 2.6%.volume sold 18,000 tons approx.

https://www.globaldairytrade.info/en/product-results/

Water John

Urea 25 to 35 seems ok. Too high makes milk difficult to process.
Buford you are right on the high protein, low energy issue pushes it up.

mahoney_j

boggerman1 wrote: »

Gdt up 2.6%.volume sold 18,000 tons approx.

Probably be down 3 % next auction

atlantic mist

22.8c here

super levy payment started this month

Milked out

Dairy gold down to 22c

wats the craic

whelan2 wrote: »

The levies are
Bord Bainne 54.26
Dairy research levy 13.95
Dairy council levy 43.15
Govt services 61.58
Disease eradication 36.95
National milk agency 10.34 then
fmp levy 29.68
Apart from fmp what can I cancel?

levels i pay wit strathroy is as follows dif levy at 0.001cpl bdl levy at 0.0006cpl

Water John

The AGM's are out of the way. Price should bottom out for the year.

Just an example of what every cent means.
The 1.7 cent diff between Arrabawn and Dairygold would yield an extra €20M to Dairygold farmers over a year.

Craic, that is very interesting on the levies. Are you saying the total is 0.0016 cent per litre?

boggerman1

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It shows the Urea in milk and helps farmers adjust their feeding to get the Urea below 25, I think.

If too much protein or too little energy, the urea levels rise so less protein and more energy is needed in the diet.

I think I have that right.

Everyday is a school day

wats the craic

Water John wrote: »

The AGM's are out of the way. Price should bottom out for the year.

Just an example of what every cent means.
The 1.7 cent diff between Arrabawn and Dairygold would yield an extra €20M to Dairygold farmers over a year.

Craic, that is very interesting on the levies. Are you saying the total is 0.0016 cent per litre?

yes thats wat on my milk statements anyways . big difference on wat i was paying with wexford milk producers

jaymla627

atlantic mist wrote: »

22.8c here

super levy payment started this month

Between super levy payment/shares payment and levies its knocking 2 cent a litre of my price for April, nice chunk of change when added up

WheatenBriar

kevthegaff wrote: »

That's nearly 250😠 ye think they'd cut levies while price is desperate

Yeah a few thousand in levies a year with no transparency as to where its going
Disgusting

Water John

Well, I presume the Strathroy 2 levies are what must be paid and the rest are opt out.
That's is if one, asks on the second Tuesday of each month, between 4 and 5 in the square in Ennis.

kowtow

According to agriland - Ireland's main request at today's EU meeting was an increase in volume limits (not price) for intervention.

Assuming he has some briefing channels from the processors, presumably this suggests that their concern is that intervention (even at the low price) is not big enough for the milk they now need to put into it which is a development of some concern.

Quite apart from extra stocks distorting and weighing on the market, in attempting to cushion the decline of price here all intervention is doing is supporting extra production in NZ etc. - I can see where it has a place in the liquid / mixed production countries but where Ireland & other exporters are concerned I reckon it does more damage than good.

Also no amount of merging of co-operatives or processors, or indeed efficiency at that level, is going to help if their role is simply to make powder for Government storage. All this corporate talk is fiddling while Rome burns.

bogman_bass

kowtow wrote: »

Quite apart from extra stocks distorting and weighing on the market, in attempting to cushion the decline of price here all intervention is doing is supporting extra production in NZ etc. - I can see where it has a place in the liquid / mixed production countries but where Ireland & other exporters are concerned I reckon it does more damage than good.

Not if you do like the Kiwis and dump it on the market during the off season

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

According to agriland - Ireland's main request at today's EU meeting was an increase in volume limits (not price) for intervention.

Assuming he has some briefing channels from the processors, presumably this suggests that their concern is that intervention (even at the low price) is not big enough for the milk they now need to put into it which is a development of some concern.

Quite apart from extra stocks distorting and weighing on the market, in attempting to cushion the decline of price here all intervention is doing is supporting extra production in NZ etc. - I can see where it has a place in the liquid / mixed production countries but where Ireland & other exporters are concerned I reckon it does more damage than good.

Also no amount of merging of co-operatives or processors, or indeed efficiency at that level, is going to help if their role is simply to make powder for Government storage. All this corporate talk is fiddling while Rome burns.

I don't want to be negative towards the man as he deserves a chance to find his feet. But he did come up with an idea about a year ago to create another body, made up of industry experts to come up with solutions to the problem.
Not so sure what getting the likes of Talbot , Woulfe, Stan and a.few more hob nobs in to a room would achieve exactly?

Unless he has a master plan to lock the door and throw away the key.

kowtow

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I don't want to be negative towards the man as he deserves a chance to find his feet. But he did come up with an idea about a year ago to create another body, made up of industry experts to come up with solutions to the problem.

When all you have in your hand is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

According to agriland - Ireland's main request at today's EU meeting was an increase in volume limits (not price) for intervention.

Assuming he has some briefing channels from the processors, presumably this suggests that their concern is that intervention (even at the low price) is not big enough for the milk they now need to put into it which is a development of some concern.

Quite apart from extra stocks distorting and weighing on the market, in attempting to cushion the decline of price here all intervention is doing is supporting extra production in NZ etc. - I can see where it has a place in the liquid / mixed production countries but where Ireland & other exporters are concerned I reckon it does more damage than good.

Also no amount of merging of co-operatives or processors, or indeed efficiency at that level, is going to help if their role is simply to make powder for Government storage. All this corporate talk is fiddling while Rome burns.

Powder is what we're stuck with short term. Reading a not very in depth article over the weekend was a bit scary. Article about the political and social situation in China. I didn't realise it but the guy who came to power in 2012 is a bit of a headbanger to say the least. He seems to have spent the past four years rowing back on a lot of freedoms and shutting down dissent at all levels. I wonder are these actions and uncertainty having much of a drag on the Chinese economy and on this region generally? If so are we looking at poor demand on all commodities until some sort of new normal emerges?

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

When all you have in your hand is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I was thinking more like a shovel.

Interesting how O Leary is naming and shaming some of the co ops doping milk price but doesn't mention the ones paying the worst price.

kevthegaff

I thought scrapping the one baby rule would help somewhat but I was very wrong. What really pi''ss es me off if we are dealing in mainly powder and exporting beef/ pigs etc why should we uphold high standards and pay for bb inspections, quango boards, 3 or 4 bloody representative bodies and comply with stricter dep officials than other countries, so wonder our cost of processing is so high

Water John

I suppose one doesn't s**t in one's own nest.
Re: O'Leary

Farmer Ed

kevthegaff wrote: »

I thought scrapping the one baby rule would help somewhat but I was very wrong. What really pi''ss es me off if we are dealing in mainly powder and exporting beef/ pigs etc why should we uphold high standards and pay for bb inspections, quango boards, 3 or 4 bloody representative bodies and comply with stricter dep officials than other countries, so wonder our cost of processing is so high

Agreed. You'd think the very least they could do is put the BB approvals on the back burner until at least the price improves. People are under enough pressure.

Re the Chinese leader his picture still hangs on the wall of at least one of our co ops. Didn't he have a cup of tea on a farm in clare a while back. Then apparently he went back to China having come to the conclusion, breast is best.

Farmer Ed

Speaking of China. Take a look at this.
Crazy stuff.

http://m.independent.ie/business/farming/dairygold-seek-500000-advice-34720251.html

kowtow

freedominacup wrote: »

If so are we looking at poor demand on all commodities until some sort of new normal emerges?

I'm afraid that it's more like the normal normal than the new normal.

The period from 2002-2014 increasingly looks out of the ordinary - a volatile combination of excitement at the "rise" of China as a consuming nation and various shots of very cheap market money, ostensibly introduced to ameliorate the effects of the dot com bust and the subsequent 2007-2008 market adjustment following sub-prime & Lehman.

I know I've been characterised here as unrealistic in calling for a dairy culture of premium products built on firm foundations which actually reflect our terroir (i.e. Irish grass), and (rather than the kneejerk reaction of merging and centralisation) considering processing models which reflect those in more competitive & successful industries... however

..having spent a long time at the sharper end of markets I can say with some certainty that only an exceptional opportunist, or a very short term thinker, would have deliberately set out to build a National business model on the narrow parameters of a period which even at the time was so obviously exceptional.

Volatile peaks in cycles are cathartic, destructive triggers for structural change - they point to every sort of opportunity - but they are absolutely not a simplistic template to sample briefly before setting the course for all future generations.

Powder is where we are at today, no question. How we got here and how much we spent doing it is worth examining - if only to avoid similar errors in the future - but what I would like to see is just one industry figure, farmers representative, or politician say "Look - we did this wrong, we were totally naive in our assumptions, but maybe along the way we discovered the germ of an industry which more exciting and authentic than leaning over the shoulder of New Zealand and copying their spelling test - so let's dial everything back, get the farmers back on side (or step out of the way and find someone who can) and figure out how to get this right, no matter how many years it takes."

Water John

Excellent Kowtow, as definitely as sugar is moving very much into the bad food category, milk and its derivative products must be positioned in the good food category.
That will help position on moving them away from base price and being a key building cornerstone to good diet, cooking and eating.

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

I'm afraid that it's more like the normal normal than the new normal.

The period from 2002-2014 increasingly looks out of the ordinary - a volatile combination of excitement at the "rise" of China as a consuming nation and various shots of very cheap market money, ostensibly introduced to ameliorate the effects of the dot com bust and the subsequent 2007-2008 market adjustment following sub-prime & Lehman.

I know I've been characterised here as unrealistic in calling for a dairy culture of premium products built on firm foundations which actually reflect our terroir (i.e. Irish grass), and (rather than the kneejerk reaction of merging and centralisation) considering processing models which reflect those in more competitive & successful industries... however

..having spent a long time at the sharper end of markets I can say with some certainty that only an exceptional opportunist, or a very short term thinker, would have deliberately set out to build a National business model on the narrow parameters of a period which even at the time was so obviously exceptional.

Volatile peaks in cycles are cathartic, destructive triggers for structural change - they point to every sort of opportunity - but they are absolutely not a simplistic template to sample briefly before setting the course for all future generations.

Powder is where we are at today, no question. How we got here and how much we spent doing it is worth examining - if only to avoid similar errors in the future - but what I would like to see is just one industry figure, farmers representative, or politician say "Look - we did this wrong, we were totally naive in our assumptions, but maybe along the way we discovered the germ of an industry which more exciting and authentic than leaning over the shoulder of New Zealand and copying their spelling test - so let's dial everything back, get the farmers back on side (or step out of the way and find someone who can) and figure out how to get this right, no matter how many years it takes."

I think it may have been a bit longer than "02-"14 but other than that you're probably fairly right. That said my mate in sales sees trade fairs in this part of the world as a waste of time but can't get enough of east Asia. He thinks the potential is huge still and he's going there since the late nineties. The product he's supplying is fairly commoditized. The merchants at the sharp end only know of his company as a licence number. When they're introduced to the merchants it's always as "kowtow from 123 company". As always there's a disconnect somewhere between the end user and the primary producer.

kowtow

freedominacup wrote: »

As always there's a disconnect somewhere between the end user and the primary producer.

Exactly!

I sometimes think it's like a perverse inversion of the traditional franchise model - normally the franchisee buys the franchise, gets the customer relationship, and instantly has access to the secret recipe - the brand and the image and the cultural capital of the franchisor... in return the franchisee hands over a share of the profit. There are many franchisees for every franchisor, so the franchise owner is able to protect his work & interests.

In dairy it's upside down - the single large processor is actually the franchisee - he subsumes the image and the cultural capital - the work of the family farm over generations - takes the customer relationship away for himself (for a term, if an MSA is in play) pays his own expenses and salaries - and only then - if there is anything left - hands over a small share of the profit.

It's like the operator of a Kentucky fried chicken restaurant telling the colonel how much he is going to pay him each month, and demanding that he be grateful for it.

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

I know I've been characterised here as unrealistic in calling for a dairy culture of premium products built on firm foundations which actually reflect our terroir (i.e. Irish grass), and (rather than the kneejerk reaction of merging and centralisation) considering processing models which reflect those in more competitive & successful industries... "

I wouldn't call you unrealistic but dealing with the public is a whole other skillset. I've been in that sort of role and found it bloody hard work. B2B isn't too bad but dealing with consumers who firmly believe their own press is soul destroying unless you're cut out for it. It might ve sticking my head in the sand but for the moment I'm going to do what I'm confident in my abilities to do and let someone else manage from the farm gate on. Hopefully thousands of producers follow your lead and ye all make a killing, it might make a bit more room for those of us not suited to it.

Dawggone

Back to your best Kowtow. Just off the phone from a sibling (big into shipping) giving me the 'told ya!'
Phuckit. This may set us back a few years...:) another t-shirt purchased...

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

I'm afraid that it's more like the normal normal than the new normal.

The period from 2002-2014 increasingly looks out of the ordinary - a volatile combination of excitement at the "rise" of China as a consuming nation and various shots of very cheap market money, ostensibly introduced to ameliorate the effects of the dot com bust and the subsequent 2007-2008 market adjustment following sub-prime & Lehman.

I know I've been characterised here as unrealistic in calling for a dairy culture of premium products built on firm foundations which actually reflect our terroir (i.e. Irish grass), and (rather than the kneejerk reaction of merging and centralisation) considering processing models which reflect those in more competitive & successful industries... however

..having spent a long time at the sharper end of markets I can say with some certainty that only an exceptional opportunist, or a very short term thinker, would have deliberately set out to build a National business model on the narrow parameters of a period which even at the time was so obviously exceptional.

Volatile peaks in cycles are cathartic, destructive triggers for structural change - they point to every sort of opportunity - but they are absolutely not a simplistic template to sample briefly before setting the course for all future generations.

Powder is where we are at today, no question. How we got here and how much we spent doing it is worth examining - if only to avoid similar errors in the future - but what I would like to see is just one industry figure, farmers representative, or politician say "Look - we did this wrong, we were totally naive in our assumptions, but maybe along the way we discovered the germ of an industry which more exciting and authentic than leaning over the shoulder of New Zealand and copying their spelling test - so let's dial everything back, get the farmers back on side (or step out of the way and find someone who can) and figure out how to get this right, no matter how many years it takes."

Probably post of the year. Thanks.


Edit.

Having slept on that last night and rereading it this morning, I suggest that the post be printed (for comment) in main stream agri media in Ireland.

Dawggone

Got an earful from my brother last night about taking a break from the 'addiction' of farming...
He does make perfect sense.
Going for a fortnight or three weeks holidays.

"What's it all for?"

rangler1

freedominacup wrote: »

I wouldn't call you unrealistic but dealing with the public is a whole other skillset. I've been in that sort of role and found it bloody hard work. B2B isn't too bad but dealing with consumers who firmly believe their own press is soul destroying unless you're cut out for it. It might ve sticking my head in the sand but for the moment I'm going to do what I'm confident in my abilities to do and let someone else manage from the farm gate on. Hopefully thousands of producers follow your lead and ye all make a killing, it might make a bit more room for those of us not suited to it.

+1 on that
It wouldn't do farmers any harm to deal directly with the consumer for a while, have had some experience of it, and if the customer wants it you have to provide it. see some questioning the value of QA, weight limits, etc. how do you value something that keeps you out of the market if you don't have it.
On milk price, it's seriously bad news to see farmers still expanding just to pump it into intervention......surely it's an indication that the intervention price is wrong

Farmer Ed

Farmers are keeping going on the promise things will get better. Most people go to work in the morning knowing they will be paid for their work. Farmers go to work in the morning hoping sometime in the future things will be better and they will get paid for their work again.

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Farmers are keeping going on the promise things will get better. Most people go to work in the morning knowing they will be paid for their work. Farmers go to work in the morning hoping sometime in the future things will be better and they will get paid for their work again.

I am sure if alot of us had been told this time last year how crap milk price would be now we would have made changes. Wonder what will milk price be this time next year, its the uncertainty thats a killer

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

I am sure if alot of us had been told this time last year how crap milk price would be now we would have made changes. Wonder what will milk price be this time next year, its the uncertainty thats a killer

I agree. Efectivly we have become professional gamblers.

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

+1 on that
It wouldn't do farmers any harm to deal directly with the consumer for a while, have had some experience of it, and if the customer wants it you have to provide it. see some questioning the value of QA, weight limits, etc. how do you value something that keeps you out of the market if you don't have it.
On milk price, it's seriously bad news to see farmers still expanding just to pump it into intervention......surely it's an indication that the intervention price is wrong

Are people still expanding or are plans at a stand still?

Milked out

whelan2 wrote: »

rangler1 wrote: »

+1 on that
It wouldn't do farmers any harm to deal directly with the consumer for a while, have had some experience of it, and if the customer wants it you have to provide it. see some questioning the value of QA, weight limits, etc. how do you value something that keeps you out of the market if you don't have it.
On milk price, it's seriously bad news to see farmers still expanding just to pump it into intervention......surely it's an indication that the intervention price is wrong

Are people still expanding or are plans at a stand still?

Have heard of some lads selling cows to reduce numbers, others be in a catch 22 as the money to expand was spent already, selling cows In current market won't cover those costs and would leave them on the back foot even further when (if) price recovery happens. I'll be selling approx 15% extra milk this year but only 6 extra cows total. Aside from price I think April hit hard, a lot of milk off silage and meal and cows subsequently not hitting peak as well as they would normally

WheatenBriar

rangler1 wrote: »

On milk price, it's seriously bad news to see farmers still expanding just to pump it into intervention......surely it's an indication that the intervention price is wrong

Its just ego and lack of brains tbh if you ask me
Fools and their money easily parted etc

whelan2

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Its just ego and lack of brains tbh if you ask me
Fools and their money easily parted etc

Its probably not even their money, its the banks

Milked out

WheatenBriar wrote: »

rangler1 wrote: »

On milk price, it's seriously bad news to see farmers still expanding just to pump it into intervention......surely it's an indication that the intervention price is wrong

Its just ego and lack of brains tbh if you ask me
Fools and their money easily parted etc

A bit of a generalisation there. If the heifers are on the ground land bought or leased, sending the milk out the gate from those cows is part of the cost but not all of It as some of it is Incurred already. Obviously reduced replacements or lower of stocking rate may help but if fixed costs are going to be the same less litres will be covering a higher percentage of it

keep going

Back to milk price west cork base 25.56 plus vat , should be 24 but they are subbing it by 1.5 and could be more to come off it.due to solids the av price is near 27.edit correction .to price bit of a brain fart moment

visatorro

I dunno about different products. If you ever watch dragons den then they talk about crowded market space and people making niche products finding it very hard to get Into supermarkets.
The greens tried to bring in farmers markets for local niche products. Alright in theory but was never going to take off for various reasons. As farmers we can't all start making cheese yogurts etc, and expect to make a living from it. The processors made a decision to give there product a long shelf life. Maybe this is the only thing they could do for it to make sense financially.
Older generation would be watching the news and see the like of the camps of syrian refugees starving and would say why can't they fire a heap of chesse and butter at them to eat, Sounds stupid but there's probably abit of twisted logic in an older persons simple way of looking at things.

Milked out

keep going wrote: »

Back to milk price west cork base 23.56 plus vat , should be 22 but they are subbing it by 1.5 and could be more to come off it.due to solids the av price is near 27

That average include fixed price schemes?

Milked out

keep going wrote: »

Back to milk price west cork base 23.56 plus vat , should be 22 but they are subbing it by 1.5 and could be more to come off it.due to solids the av price is near 27

That average include fixed price schemes?

rangler1

Milked out wrote: »

A bit of a generalisation there. If the heifers are on the ground land bought or leased, sending the milk out the gate from those cows is part of the cost but not all of It as some of it is Incurred already. Obviously reduced replacements or lower of stocking rate may help but if fixed costs are going to be the same less litres will be covering a higher percentage of it

Well then if they want to stabilise the market, they'll have to reduce intervention price to equalise supply /demand, it's unsustainable to be looking at boats full of butter in west cork again

darragh_haven

Dawggone wrote: »

Got an earful from my brother last night about taking a break from the 'addiction' of farming...
He does make perfect sense.
Going for a fortnight or three weeks holidays.

"What's it all for?"

If your the kind of person that can switch offf easily, 2 weeks would be more than enough. I can totally forget about work once i clock off on the finak day before the holiday.
My dad on the other hand would need a full week on the actual holiday before he could even start to relax. A load of 'what ifs' going through his head. Could not trust anyone to do the job as good as himself while away.

keep going

Milked out wrote: »

That average include fixed price schemes?

Posted wrong price , I 4hink not including

darragh_haven

keep going wrote: »

Back to milk price west cork base 25.56 plus vat , should be 24 but they are subbing it by 1.5 and could be more to come off it.due to solids the av price is near 27.edit correction .to price bit of a brain fart moment

A friend of mine showed me his milk statement from just over a month ago, and he got 29.9c/l. He was fierce disappointed because it was the first time since 2009 that he got below 30c/l for his milk.
Now that the base has dropped 2 c/l since then, he'll have to get used of it unfortunately.