Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

Water John

Browned, I think that depends on who and how many are filed as Senior Management. I know the numbers varied with diff processors.
A figure for the CEO of each would not go amiss.
I've no problem paying anyone who is doing the business. Others I would gladly, give away.

To take the two figures given DG 2.7 Carbery 4.7 Diff 2M

DG milk price to farmers 25/30M less than Carbery.
That's a good return on the extra 2M on Carbery 15:1

alps

browned wrote: »

That's strange because According to the farmers journal carberys management remuneration is €4.7m while dairygolds is only €2.7m.

Was there a pretty substantial performance bonus paid in Carbery lately? It could account for such a high figure...

keep going

kowtow wrote: »

Agree completely with your post above - but just on the market returns figure of 21.5c, as you see it, does that include all products manufactured by / sold by Carbery.. cheese etc.?

In other words, despite their product portfolio (which unless I am mistaken is one of the better of the co-ops) they are unable to produce a return of more than a half cent higher than intervention?

And if so - is that because of the volume of Carbery milk going to powder, much of it perhaps even below intervention price, or because market prices for their own products have suffered alongside powder?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I have a feeling many farmers would look back at the rush into "white gold" and feel that with all the plc share talk and expansion and a high milk price they didn't really get to grips with who actually buys our milk, and what different product groups contribute to the average milk prices paid ... I have a feeling that you are in a better position to shed light on this than many of us here.

Edit: I know you have something of a penchant for statistics, perhaps (only slightly tongue in cheek) what we need is an EBI system for the co-ops, with sub-indexes for the quantity, quality, and price of products grouped they are equipped to produce and sell. High production / high volatilty and exposure to world markets vs. smaller, high solids, limited markets....

We could merge them annually in an attempt to breed better ones. They like a merger.

Without nailing exact figures, carbery produce something over 35 ktons of cheese with roughly 1200 tons sold as branded.this cheese is going into the market currently at 2150 a ton which according to a rule of thumb used innthe industry returns 21.5 cent.now they are involved in further processing which does give some fat but alot of the difference in the milk price comes from stuff that has nothing to do with milk.

keep going

But when stand back and look at things , theres no difference really between quota years and now .unless you were born with a silver quota spoon in your mouth someone else had to give up for you to survive in the milk game

kevthegaff

Interesting times ahead A large possibility, half of us could be on the beef/suckler thread down the line. My land is too hilly for tillage:-( imo a better lifestyle with no slaving seven day weeks!

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

Without nailing exact figures, carbery produce something over 35 ktons of cheese with roughly 1200 tons sold as branded.this cheese is going into the market currently at 2150 a ton which according to a rule of thumb used innthe industry returns 21.5 cent.now they are involved in further processing which does give some fat but alot of the difference in the milk price comes from stuff that has nothing to do with milk.

I think most farmers wouldn't care if they made the money backing horses. The fact is year after year they have managed to deliver the best milk price. From what I hear a board member in west cork gets about 130 euro per meeting. Dairygolds starting pay is something like 35k per year plus expenses plus quangos. For some reason the west Cork boys don't seem to do as well either when jobs on national quangos are being given out?

When it comes to delivering for board members. Yes I would guess west cork must be way down on the league table.

Farmer Ed

browned wrote: »

That's strange because According to the farmers journal carberys management remuneration is €4.7m while dairygolds is only €2.7m.

My apologies I didn't realize Carbery executives were so well paid.

In terms of remuneration, the 2015 accounts shows the group’s 14 senior executives shared €2.69m in salaries, with performance-related payments of €1.18m, plus employer social insurance, pensions and other benefits.

This translates into an average pay package of almost €300,000 per executive.

At 300k each that's the exact same pay level as Dairygold. If you don't take in to account the 488k they had to pay for advice on top of that.

Shocking how Carbery haven't head hunted some of the Dairygolds management.
For some reason Jim was more concerned about losing them to Apple our Pepsi.

browned

alps wrote: »

Was there a pretty substantial performance bonus paid in Carbery lately? It could account for such a high figure...

Honestly I haven't a clue. Just going off the figures published in the journal a couple of weeks ago.

kowtow

keep going wrote:

Without nailing exact figures, carbery produce something over 35 ktons of cheese with roughly 1200 tons sold as branded.this cheese is going into the market currently at 2150 a ton which according to a rule of thumb used innthe industry returns 21.5 cent.now they are involved in further processing which does give some fat but alot of the difference in the milk price comes from stuff that has nothing to do with milk.

So does it follow that carbery is a net subtraction from the ornua ppi... Unless I am misunderstanding.

What products nationwide are generating higher returns?

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

So does it follow that carbery is a net subtraction from the ornua ppi... Unless I am misunderstanding.

What products nationwide are generating higher returns?

How much is the whey worth to Carbery? I'm assuming the 21.5 c would only be the 10% cheese yield. Assuming it's all going in to something like cheddar. I would imagine the yield would also be much higher for the likes of mozzarella.

Milked out

It's synergy the flavours and ingredients company carbery own in the US that's making the money for them at the minute I gather. Non dairy and they have a couple of popular products after taking off in the states. Open to correction on it

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

It's synergy the flavours and ingredients company carbery own in the US that's making the money for them at the minute I gather. Non dairy and they have a couple of popular products after taking off in the states. Open to correction on it

Fascinating sounding company http://www.synergytaste.com/products

Milked out

It is, however the point being if it wasn't there and carbery were depending solely on dairy market returns at this stage they would be more than likely paying the same as the rest

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

It is, however the point being if it wasn't there and carbery were depending solely on dairy market returns at this stage they would be more than likely paying the same as the rest

It is not in anyway unrelated to Carberys existing business all the same.some of its products include dairy flavours. IMO it perfectly complements Carberys business.

I still think their cheese business is returning more than 21.5c when you take the whey in to account. But at the end of the day as long as they pay a leading milk price, how they manage to do it won't worry most farmers to much.

Water John

As Jim Woulfe says, nowadays you make cheese to get the whey.
The cheese only has to wash its face. Pay for the processing. The whey products are where the protein and profit is.
We need full figures and suite of products to make up the gross for each litre of milk. We only have half a story.

Fair play to Carbery, at least they are selling a branded cheese.

keep going

Water John wrote: »

As Jim Woulfe says, nowadays you make cheese to get the whey.
The cheese only has to wash its face. Pay for the processing. The whey products are where the protein and profit is.
We need full figures and suite of products to make up the gross for each litre of milk. We only have half a story.

Fair play to Carbery, at least they are selling a branded cheese.

Not sure about valuable branded cheese, last ad campaign cost 250 grand for just ireland and youd hardly see what you get for that qnd it also brings you into contact with the multiples which are difficult to deal with.if its alright with ye I dont want to go into anymore detail about the business, im just trying to highlight that this is where the milk game is at and while some processors pay better than others it may have more to do with the cycles of different products and market sentiment at a particular time than an indicator of poor decision making

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

Not sure about valuable branded cheese, last ad campaign cost 250 grand for just ireland and youd hardly see what you get for that qnd it also brings you into contact with the multiples which are difficult to deal with.if its alright with ye I dont want to go into anymore detail about the business, im just trying to highlight that this is where the milk game is at and while some processors pay better than others it may have more to do with the cycles of different products and market sentiment at a particular time than an indicator of poor decision making

250k on an add campaign to sell cheese doesn't sound excessive. When you consider Dg spent 488k last year just on advice from Deloyte alone and didn't sell as much as a kg of branded dairy produce apart from milk replacer. God only knows what they gave Keating and associates up in Dublin for running their pr machine? That must be costing them a fortune? Imagine spending farmers money on advice on how to explain to farmers why they can't pay them? Those boy's would spend 250k taking a member to court and still make a bags of it. Only a couple of years ago the judge in macroom court asked for the board of Dg to be brought before him if they persisted with the silly cases they were bringing and I'm guessing you have heard about their recent trips to the high Court. Why Arthur Cox alone has 4 pages of file references on them. Talk now is their actions could have sparked a discrimination case against them. How compedent is that? I would have no problem with Carbery spending 250 k advertising cheese No comparison in terms of money well spent.

The consistent success of Carbery can hardy be dismissed as where they are in a cycle. I still think the figure of 21.5c return for cheese is low considering you don't seem to have added back the return made from the whey I'm assuming they didn't feed it to pigs?

Milked out

Perhaps it would be easier if you just set up a dairygold bashing thread and just repeat that stuff in there rather than constantly repeating it on every other thread

Farmer Ed

We seem to be able to roughly calculate the return from the lowest priced cheese element of the milk.
Anyone able to give a figure as to what the whey from the making of that cheese is returning to Carbery? Some here maybe should consider starting a thread dedicated to bashing Carbery for consistently paying the best price for milk. Maybe someone needs to have a word with them. It doesn't reflect well on other processors.

Farmer Ed

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/hogan-tells-dairy-farmers-the-must-take-responsibility-for-surge-in-milk-production/

From the creator of Irish water. We only send the brightest and the best to Brussels

Jaysus Christ

Farmer Ed wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/hogan-tells-dairy-farmers-the-must-take-responsibility-for-surge-in-milk-production/

From the creator of Irish water. We only send the brightest and the best to Brussels

What exactly is he saying wrong. Just look at the poll in the other thread. Majority are planning on getting into more cows more land. The market is overloaded to bursting point so the best thing to do is produce more, get into more debt and then start crying about price.

Farmer Ed

Jaysus Christ wrote: »

What exactly is he saying wrong. Just look at the poll in the other thread. Majority are planning on getting into more cows more land. The market is overloaded to bursting point so the best thing to do is produce more, get into more debt and then start crying about price.

Forgive him Lord for he does not know what he is doing.

freedominacup

Jaysus Christ wrote: »

What exactly is he saying wrong. Just look at the poll in the other thread. Majority are planning on getting into more cows more land. The market is overloaded to bursting point so the best thing to do is produce more, get into more debt and then start crying about price.

Is it that you can't read or can't count. That poll as it stands reads as flat. 15% for increase, 20% reduce or get out.

Injuryprone

freedominacup wrote: »

Is it that you can't read or can't count. That poll as it stands reads as flat. 15% for increase, 20% reduce or get out.

I'm seeing 29% increase, 19% reduce or get out

alps

Farmer Ed wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/hogan-tells-dairy-farmers-the-must-take-responsibility-for-surge-in-milk-production/

From the creator of Irish water. We only send the brightest and the best to Brussels

I have to agree with him...

“It is now genuinely in the hands of dairy farmers who may, if they so wish, join forces and collectively decide to reduce production,” he said.

Otherwise it's quotas folks. ..

greenfield21

I hope he does nothing, still to much money at current price so people are just going to keep pumping milk out.

freedominacup

Injuryprone wrote: »

I'm seeing 29% increase, 19% reduce or get out

It's changing. Maybe it's me who cant read. I think i confused 15 votes with 15%.

Farmer Ed

The idea that all farmers across the Eu would just decide to reduce production in a some sort of harmonious and coordinated gesture of solidarity, as some kind of a social duty, seems to be wishful thinking from big Phil.
Good luck with that idea. Looks like we are on our own in dealing with this one.

Milked out

http://www.fwi.co.uk/business/world-dairy-giant-reveals-depressing-milk-price-forecast.htm?cmpid=SOC|Twitter|FarmersWeekly|sf27025520|sf27025520

boggerman1

alps wrote: »

I have to agree with him...

“It is now genuinely in the hands of dairy farmers who may, if they so wish, join forces and collectively decide to reduce production,” he said.

Otherwise it's quotas folks. ..

. And then today u have in the comic on the ifa page some lad called o'leary looking for handouts from the government.crying about big superlevy bills that some farmer's have but make it look like we all have one.the era of handouts is over.if I go tits up its my fault and can't expect the taxpayer to bail me out.we're not Anglo Irish bank

Farmer Ed

Only way production will fall is when people are losing their shirts. If something isn't done to try and manage this mess. We won't have anywhere near the amount of dairy farmers left. Then who ever is left will be like pig farmers at the moment. politically insignificant. I'm not in favour of quotas but if Phil wants farmer to reduce production. They are not going to all just agree to do that and see it as their civic duty. As part of the politically elite class who encouraged us all to invest and get rich. Phil needs to get his thinking cap on and pretty quick otherwise there will be casualties.

greenfield21

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Only way production will fall is when people are losing their shirts. If something isn't done to try and manage this mess. We won't have anywhere near the amount of dairy farmers left. Then who ever is left will be like pig farmers at the moment. politically insignificant. I'm not in favour of quotas but if Phil wants farmer to reduce production. They are not going to all just agree to do that and see it as their civic duty. As part of the politically elite class who encouraged us all to invest and get rich. Phil needs to get his thinking cap on and pretty quick otherwise there will be casualties.

Last man standing, we have cheap grass and family labour. Its still White gold for most.

fepper

Grass seems to be getting more expensive every year to keep it growing,ensiling it, and very weather dependant!!

leg wax

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Only way production will fall is when people are losing their shirts. If something isn't done to try and manage this mess. We won't have anywhere near the amount of dairy farmers left. Then who ever is left will be like pig farmers at the moment. politically insignificant. I'm not in favour of quotas but if Phil wants farmer to reduce production. They are not going to all just agree to do that and see it as their civic duty. As part of the politically elite class who encouraged us all to invest and get rich. Phil needs to get his thinking cap on and pretty quick otherwise there will be casualties.

and let there be casualties .........simple.

whelan2

leg wax wrote: »

and let there be casualties .........simple.

The sooner the better

Buford T. Justice XIX

leg wax wrote: »

and let there be casualties .........simple.

whelan2 wrote: »

The sooner the better

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

patsy_mccabe

Supply and Demand - first lesson in a free market.

Jaysus Christ

Is it in the IFJ that the June milk check for the "average" dairy farmer will be down €7000 on 2013??

Just goes to show the money they were making.

Farmer Ed

leg wax wrote: »

and let there be casualties .........simple.

I'm not so sure it might be as rosey as some might think for the survivors. There was a time when the price of milk would bring down a government. Dairy farmers are increasingly becoming politically and socially isolated. Just some of the animosity towards us on here alone is a good example.

Don't want to plagiarise a phrase. But there is strength in numbers. In real terms we are now getting only about a third of what we got for milk 27years ago. Increasingly this is looking very much like a race to the bottom. Hope I'm wrong but increasingly people seem to be taking pleasure out of seeing their neighbours go out of business.

whelan2

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Have just been reading the journal when I posted, so much doom and gloom, a few good letters on the letters page and on the dealers pages the story of a farmer in the uk with 4 robots which are costing him a bomb in repairs /repayments..... On the plus side Katherine o leary has a good article on the Greenfield open day

whelan2

Jaysus Christ wrote: »

Is it in the IFJ that the June milk check for the "average" dairy farmer will be down €7000 on 2013??

Just goes to show the money they were making.

I was down 8k in my April cheque this year on last year

Milked out

Jaysus Christ wrote: »

Is it in the IFJ that the June milk check for the "average" dairy farmer will be down 7000 on 2013??

Just goes to show the money they were making.

Your confusing sales with profit there lad.

Milked out

Jaysus Christ wrote: »

Is it in the IFJ that the June milk check for the "average" dairy farmer will be down 7000 on 2013??

Just goes to show the money they were making.

Your confusing sales with profit there lad.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Milked out wrote: »

Your confusing sales with profit there lad.

Milked out wrote: »

Your confusing sales with profit there lad.

Sure post it again, I don't think it's registering yet:p

pedigree 6

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I'm not so sure it might be as rosey as some might think for the survivors. There was a time when the price of milk would bring down a government. Dairy farmers are increasingly becoming politically and socially isolated. Just some of the animosity towards us on here alone is a good example.

Don't want to plagiarise a phrase. But there is strength in numbers. In real terms we are now getting only about a third of what we got for milk 27years ago. Increasingly this is looking very much like a race to the bottom. Hope I'm wrong but increasingly people seem to be taking pleasure out of seeing their neighbours go out of business.

The farmer milking 100 cows wants to see the farmer milking 50 cows go out of business.

The farmer milking 200 cows wants to see the farmer milking 100 cows go out of business.

The farmer milking 400 cows wants to see the farmer milking 200 cows go out of business.

The farmer milking 800 cows wants to see the farmer milking 400 cows go out of business.

The company milking 1600 cows wants to see the farmer milking 800 cows go out of business.

The drystock and tillage farmers wants to see them all out of business and the processors don't give a dam who goes out of business.

Fight on lads.:D

Farmer Ed

pedigree 6 wrote: »

The farmer milking 100 cows wants to see the farmer milking 50 cows go out of business.

The farmer milking 200 cows wants to see the farmer milking 100 cows go out of business.

The farmer milking 400 cows wants to see the farmer milking 200 cows go out of business.

The farmer milking 800 cows wants to see the farmer milking 400 cows go out of business.

The company milking 1600 cows wants to see the farmer milking 800 cows go out of business.

The drystock and tillage farmers wants to see them all out of business and the processors don't give a dam who goes out of business.

Fight on lads.:D

Meanwhile we all just try and run faster to try and stand still.

pedigree 6

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Meanwhile we all just try and run faster to try and stand still.

Seems to be.
There's no contenting some people.
There's always a bigger cat ready to pounce on you no matter how big you think you are.

Jaysus Christ

freedominacup wrote: »

Is it that you can't read or can't count. That poll as it stands reads as flat. 15% for increase, 20% reduce or get out.

I can both read and count.

alps

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Don't want to plagiarise a phrase. But there is strength in numbers. ..... Hope I'm wrong but increasingly people seem to be taking pleasure out of seeing their neighbours go out of business.

Ed .....you are 100% bang on....

Farmer respect and farmer lobbying strength depends on numbers....what those here clapping with glee don't seem to realise that to consume these failed farmers will take debt...increase the debt and you can't get back out..When you can't get back out you bloody well need some other guy to be less efficient than you, because when he's gone....you're next...

It's like 3 friend in a field with a bull....One guy is slow, so the other 2 are smug...The bull gets the first and then the other 2 find that there is no way out of the field...The bull will get the next and and the next....

Hope theres pleasure in it guys..

Waffletraktor

I don't know about the exact costings for dairy but I guess it would be aiming for a sub 19c/l cost being you future but in tillage to make money it's getting to stage of stripping back to make money on a spend of sub750£/ha is the new-old norm in milling wheat. Bg alone has a charge of 200+ on some farms for herbs and losses and in reality their still going to go out of business if they stay at that. Great when prices rise you can let off the belt for a breather, unless some one owes you lot a living to stay over producing a product mix no one wants. Dawg posted a time back of a open day and a farmer dancing about demanding the market change to suit him and folk sneered, yet a few months later that particular f##k gun is being pointed at you by Europe and how many furious farmers turned up to Dg agm, will go to ifa etc meetings to discuss a plan of action when the serious moves for quota come in when half the lot there will be sitting smugly fancying themselves to pick up cheap cows soon and the other half pulling their hair out of self inflicted stress.
And anyone blaming Teagasc/simple Simon et/al fudge off, your just like a property developer in the twilight of the boom wondering why the good times didn't go on for ever.