Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

welton john

Is it any wonder the ifa/other farmer groups seem to fail miseribly theres no cohesion between dairy farmers.Not so long ago lads here clapping one another on the back ,quoatas going we'll expand well all get rich together. fast forward a year the same lad patting you on the back wants to push you off a cliff.
Its a pity if lads see it as a last man standing situation, if so dont rule out the fool down the road from you with his 30 cows,bare upgrade from a bucket plant and rusty 165.

pedigree 6

Since Dawggone and others are reeling in the years here.
Just to look back at a few years ago.
Here's another reeling in the years.

Water John

Fecking brilliant Pedigree. I'm sure we could have a gallery of clips. A bit of a competition to find the most embarrassing claims.
Of course an added category could be the size of salary of the claimants for their expertise.

BTW as you are looking at the AIB /IFA link up, you might find the research carried out by both two years ago. It showed expansion plans in milk by Irish farmers to be limited.
That report got buried without trace.

pedigree 6

One more and i'll leave it at that.
I've no real opinion either way but just for the history books.
Whatever the next few years holds.:rolleyes:

Farmer Ed

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Since Dawggone and others are reeling in the years here.
Just to look back at a few years ago.
Here's another reeling in the years.

Does anyone actually know what exactly qualifies her to be an expert in the first place?

Farmer Ed

pedigree 6 wrote: »

One more and i'll leave it at that.
I've no real opinion either way but just for the history books.
Whatever the next few years holds.:rolleyes:

Notice she keeps saying the sector. The farmer is just a minion within the sector.

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Does anyone actually know what exactly qualifies her to be an expert in the first place?

If you're looking for some one to blame, look in the mirror.
She said farmers were in a good position to expand, definitely was right there.
Affluent society is growing round the world...., right again.
If you can't take responsibility for business decisions,!!!!!!!!!!
The buzz words from the Dairy Commitee while I was on National exec in IFA were ''SUSTAINABLE EXPANSION''....obviously no one else wanted to listen to that......just like the developers 10 years ago.
I issued a few warnings on here myself too about post quota....sure what would I, an IFA officer know. You insist on running down everyone that's better off than you and discrediting their work....a bit sad really

leg wax

alps wrote: »

Ed .....you are 100% bang on....

Farmer respect and farmer lobbying strength depends on numbers....what those here clapping with glee don't seem to realise that to consume these failed farmers will take debt...increase the debt and you can't get back out..When you can't get back out you bloody well need some other guy to be less efficient than you, because when he's gone....you're next...

It's like 3 friend in a field with a bull....One guy is slow, so the other 2 are smug...The bull gets the first and then the other 2 find that there is no way out of the field...The bull will get the next and and the next....

Hope theres pleasure in it guys..

i dont want to see farmer go broke but if they have made bad business moves then its their own fault, no diff then the shop that opens all over the country in towns and cities that we can all see, except the owner why did they open there wrong place be it no parking or not enough foot fall passing the door as all shops have moved to the trendy site, as for the 3 lads in the field experience would have told them dont get into the field because their is no safe escape route , but the stupid would go in ,the bulls always been quite ,never looked at anyone, then we have a funeral.

Waffletraktor

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Does anyone actually know what exactly qualifies her to be an expert in the first place?

I don't agree too often with you but when she trotted out the line of growing of growing populations :rolleyes:, maybe she should highlight the growing affluent classes and a need for value added not dried and bottom feeding.:)

rangler1

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I don't agree too often with you but when she trotted out the line of growing of growing populations :rolleyes:, maybe she should highlight the growing affluent classes and a need for value added not dried and bottom feeding.:)

It's a bit late for dairy farmers like Mr Ed to be doubting her opinion now, it's up to everyone to do their own research and make their own decisions

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

If you're looking for some one to blame, look in the mirror.
She said farmers were in a good position to expand, definitely was right there.
Affluent society is growing round the world...., right again.
If you can't take responsibility for business decisions,!!!!!!!!!!
The buzz words from the Dairy Commitee while I was on National exec in IFA were ''SUSTAINABLE EXPANSION''....obviously no one else wanted to listen to that......just like the developers 10 years ago.
I issued a few warnings on here myself too about post quota....sure what would I, an IFA officer know. You insist on running down everyone that's better off than you and discrediting their work....a bit sad really

Look everyone made their own decisions, based on what I dont care, nor do I care if peter up the road cant pay his meal bill this month or afford to go to costa del sol. They made their decisions and have to deal with them .I will look after my own empire and let them work away. Hate this crap of lads coming into the yard with stories about lads around here, its none of their business.

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

If you're looking for some one to blame, look in the mirror.
She said farmers were in a good position to expand, definitely was right there.
Affluent society is growing round the world...., right again.
If you can't take responsibility for business decisions,!!!!!!!!!!
The buzz words from the Dairy Commitee while I was on National exec in IFA were ''SUSTAINABLE EXPANSION''....obviously no one else wanted to listen to that......just like the developers 10 years ago.
I issued a few warnings on here myself too about post quota....sure what would I, an IFA officer know. You insist on running down everyone that's better off than you and discrediting their work....a bit sad really

Rangler why do you constantly jump to conclusions? I simply asked what her qualifications are? Whether she is financially better of than me or not is up to speculation and something that you have brought in to this discussion, not me. But as you brought it up? Any idea what she is being paid? I certainly don't think she has a bright future as a fortune teller

kevthegaff

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I don't know about the exact costings for dairy but I guess it would be aiming for a sub 19c/l cost being you future but in tillage to make money it's getting to stage of stripping back to make money on a spend of sub750£/ha is the new-old norm in milling wheat. Bg alone has a charge of 200+ on some farms for herbs and losses and in reality their still going to go out of business if they stay at that. Great when prices rise you can let off the belt for a breather, unless some one owes you lot a living to stay over producing a product mix no one wants. Dawg posted a time back of a open day and a farmer dancing about demanding the market change to suit him and folk sneered, yet a few months later that particular f##k gun is being pointed at you by Europe and how many furious farmers turned up to Dg agm, will go to ifa etc meetings to discuss a plan of action when the serious moves for quota come in when half the lot there will be sitting smugly fancying themselves to pick up cheap cows soon and the other half pulling their hair out of self inflicted stress.
And anyone blaming Teagasc/simple Simon et/al fudge off, your just like a property developer in the twilight of the boom wondering why the good times didn't go on for ever.

What's Bg?

freedominacup

kevthegaff wrote: »

What's Bg?

Big gonads. The argument seems to ve whether it's an overabundance of them or lack of them that's causing all the problems.

Waffletraktor

freedominacup wrote: »

Big gonads. The argument seems to ve whether it's an overabundance of them or lack of them that's causing all the problems.

So which side are you?

kevthegaff wrote: »

What's Bg?

http://www.fwi.co.uk/arable/farmers-will-need-two-years-to-get-on-top-of-bad-blackgrass.htm

whelan2

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/commissioner-hogan-completely-wrong-to-make-farmers-responsible-for-dairy-crisis/

freedominacup

Waffletraktor wrote: »

So which side are you?



http://www.fwi.co.uk/arable/farmers-will-need-two-years-to-get-on-top-of-bad-blackgrass.htm

Well self praise is no praise so I'll have to refer you to Mrs freedom for an unbiased opinion.

Sam Kade

I see in the journal where a uk dairy farmer with 4 robot milkers is trying to decide to give up or stay milking. The repayments and maintaining the robots are eating into his monthly milk cheque. Remember all the hype on here before quotas went, if you're going milking get a robot.

Sam Kade

whelan2 wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/commissioner-hogan-completely-wrong-to-make-farmers-responsible-for-dairy-crisis/

In fairness Hogan is clueless.

Jaysus Christ

It's definitely not in my interest to see well established dairy men go under(The fly by nights I couldn't care less ).

I just read the first couple of pages of this thread last night and at nearly 40c a litre there was still complaining.

alps

leg wax wrote: »

i dont want to see farmer go broke but if they have made bad business moves then its their own fault,

The only bad business move a farmer that can produce milk at a cost of 20c/l has made........is getting himself a wife and kids and mortgage.....

If he didn't do this it seems he was a great businessman. .

Dawggone

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I don't know about the exact costings for dairy but I guess it would be aiming for a sub 19c/l cost being you future but in tillage to make money it's getting to stage of stripping back to make money on a spend of sub750£/ha is the new-old norm in milling wheat. .

+1.
Not trying to go off topic...
I'm applying 50l/ha of (urea) N20 + 2kg/ha of MgS04 to wheats here with the last couple of days. Will try to get 3 doses on during grain fill...
Reasons are ; the very mild winter brought a serious attack of aphids resulting in about 75% of wheat being infected with bydv. Now the yield loss will be about 1t/ha, but it's the resulting loss of protein that may affect the market. In my experience bydv wheat usually comes in at around 9 to 10.5% protein. That would mean that many many tons of milling would end up in feed wheat. Couple that with a weak Rouble and Hryvnia...

Hope I'm wrong.

Waffletraktor

alps wrote: »

The only bad business move a farmer that can produce milk at a cost of 20c/l has made........is getting himself a wife and kids and mortgage.....

If he didn't do this it seems he was a great businessman. .

Depends if it's the new normal for more than, what would most guys reckon? Atleast another 12-18months until either Europe goes brute force and puts in controls again or you have massive no.'s leave. Am I wrong in that assumption?

Speaking from a tillage point of view it's becoming a time of slash and burn and find the new normal (minimum input, fixed cost and forget chasing yield) as its too easy to put a pre or even post Panamax boat in somewhere now. Looking a more low in-put/output Spring cropping as winter crops need too much spending. Otherwise go back to head in the sand and hope for the next price boom to come within 5+ years.

pedigree 6

freedominacup wrote: »

Well self praise is no praise so I'll have to refer you to Mrs freedom for an unbiased opinion.

Freedom for the taoiseach.
I'd vote for ya.

Waffletraktor

Dawggone wrote: »

+1.
Not trying to go off topic...
I'm applying 50l/ha of (urea) N20 + 2kg/ha of MgS04 to wheats here with the last couple of days. Will try to get 3 doses on during grain fill...
Reasons are ; the very mild winter brought a serious attack of aphids resulting in about 75% of wheat being infected with bydv. Now the yield loss will be about 1t/ha, but it's the resulting loss of protein that may affect the market. In my experience bydv wheat usually comes in at around 9 to 10.5% protein. That would mean that many many tons of milling would end up in feed wheat. Couple that with a weak Rouble and Hryvnia...

Hope I'm wrong.

You'll be left with sheds full of stuff no one wants or will make lots if can beat the average of locals. There was a few aphids around and full of flea beetle.
They have been putting feed wheat into the Us east coast as its cheaper than trucking it from the grain belts or barging it to the end of the Mississippi on the stupidly big barges and despite cheap fuel out of the U.K. For the last 2 years.

For us if it goes bad we will have to go all spring cropping for a few years, couldn't afford the spend on winter crops. Until world stock get eaten up it is going to be tight and with a world record corn harvest expected... Atleast proteins are going the right way.

Milked out

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Dawggone wrote: »

+1.
Not trying to go off topic...
I'm applying 50l/ha of (urea) N20 + 2kg/ha of MgS04 to wheats here with the last couple of days. Will try to get 3 doses on during grain fill...
Reasons are ; the very mild winter brought a serious attack of aphids resulting in about 75% of wheat being infected with bydv. Now the yield loss will be about 1t/ha, but it's the resulting loss of protein that may affect the market. In my experience bydv wheat usually comes in at around 9 to 10.5% protein. That would mean that many many tons of milling would end up in feed wheat. Couple that with a weak Rouble and Hryvnia...

Hope I'm wrong.

You'll be left with sheds full of stuff no one wants or will make lots if can beat the average of locals. There was a few aphids around and full of flea beetle.
They have been putting feed wheat into the Us east coast as its cheaper than trucking it from the grain belts or barging it to the end of the Mississippi on the stupidly big barges and despite cheap fuel out of the U.K. For the last 2 years.

For us if it goes bad we will have to go all spring cropping for a few years, couldn't afford the spend on winter crops. Until world stock get eaten up it is going to be tight and with a world record corn harvest expected... Atleast proteins are going the right way.

Brazil I think are importing maize again, so maize is holding steady price wise i think. can ye do anything with protein crops in the UK? Are wheat and barley too much of your area without much of an alternative. Or sell kale to the vegans or something. Obviously I know f-all about tillage but assuming you can only go so far in cost cutting what else can ye do?

Waffletraktor

Milked out wrote: »

Brazil I think are importing maize again, so maize is holding steady price wise i think. can ye do anything with protein crops in the UK? Are wheat and barley too much of your area without much of an alternative. Or sell kale to the vegans or something. Obviously I know f-all about tillage but assuming you can only go so far in cost cutting what else can ye do?

Your more or less bang on correct, beans and peas are the main protein crops working on the more fringe crops to increase incomes from them. It's not much of an issue for us as there's scale and financial backing (so long as hit income targets) only a handful could live with but the run of the mill farm is what I worry for. Might be looking for a pair of stock people soon.
The trade a few years ago was cheerleader 20t of wheat per ha by 2020. Now never mind how mad it would be to pile on more feed crops to the heap no one wants. Like milk until the market finds its new norm or its forced upon you again.

Farmer Ed

alps wrote: »

The only bad business move a farmer that can produce milk at a cost of 20c/l has made........is getting himself a wife and kids and mortgage.....

If he didn't do this it seems he was a great businessman. .

Unfortunately it is becoming the new norm for one spouse to have an off farm job to support the farm. Survival could well be decided by who the farmer sleeps with and how much they get paid.

alps

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Depends if it's the new normal for more than, what would most guys reckon? Atleast another 12-18months until either Europe goes brute force and puts in controls again or you have massive no.'s leave. Am I wrong in that assumption?
.

Brute force may be the end result. We are in the phase of producers and politicians pointing at each other saying it's up to you to fix this mess while all those in the middle remain largely unaffected or in positive territory.
It may take too long for the hard ons since the removal of quotas to wear off for farmers to take on that responsibility....as the saying goes ..A standing dic* has no conscience...

The EU will not let the European family farm model disintegrate. It will play hardball for quiet some time in the hope that fortunes will recover before before it really needs to intervene...if it plays out for as long as your timeframe suggests, that will mean quotas..

Bass Reeves

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Unfortunately it is becoming the new norm for one spouse to have an off farm job to support the farm. Survival could well be decided by who the farmer sleeps with and how much they get paid.

Why is that unfortunate or strange. In drystock situations there are a lot of farms where both have outside employment. I think a lot of farmers are deluded into thinking that just because a farm gave a living wage to a family in previous generation that it still can. Before the great famine it was possible to support a family on a few acres of potatoes and the pig paid the rent. Would it still be possible to do that yes but you would have to be willing to live that life.

The big issue with dairy farming is that now those that milk cows will have to survive peaks and troughs of milk prices. The question is which is better off a mid sized farmers milking 70-120 as a single labour unit with a spouse having a job outside the home or a farm where the farmer is milking 150+ cows with the spouse working on the farm and in the home.

I think that a lot of dairy farmers need to sit down and decide what is the most viable option for them. As well they need to decide on what work life balance they wish to have. Another side issue is that if the government wished for dairying to be a success there needs to be ability for sole traders to retain some profits untaxed within the business to tide them over troughs. Income averaging is not the same as while it protects income in peaks it leaves a nasty tax bill during troughs

20silkcut

alps wrote: »

It may take too long for the hard ons since the removal of quotas to wear off for farmers to take on that responsibility....as the saying goes ..A standing dic* has no conscience...

..

Jaysus there is a forest of standing d*cks out there at the moment and nowhere to stick em.

Injuryprone

freedominacup wrote: »

Well self praise is no praise so I'll have to refer you to Mrs freedom for an unbiased opinion.

Does your name not give away the answer:)

freedominacup

Injuryprone wrote: »

Does your name not give away the answer:)

No. Jesus. It comes from a kid's movie.

Farmer Ed

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Why is that unfortunate or strange. In drystock situations there are a lot of farms where both have outside employment. I think a lot of farmers are deluded into thinking that just because a farm gave a living wage to a family in previous generation that it still can. Before the great famine it was possible to support a family on a few acres of potatoes and the pig paid the rent. Would it still be possible to do that yes but you would have to be willing to live that life.

The big issue with dairy farming is that now those that milk cows will have to survive peaks and troughs of milk prices. The question is which is better off a mid sized farmers milking 70-120 as a single labour unit with a spouse having a job outside the home or a farm where the farmer is milking 150+ cows with the spouse working on the farm and in the home.

I think that a lot of dairy farmers need to sit down and decide what is the most viable option for them. As well they need to decide on what work life balance they wish to have. Another side issue is that if the government wished for dairying to be a success there needs to be ability for sole traders to retain some profits untaxed within the business to tide them over troughs. Income averaging is not the same as while it protects income in peaks it leaves a nasty tax bill during troughs

If both spouse have to take up off farm employment to subsidise the farm. Maybe taking up golf might be a Less expensive hobby than farming.

whelan2

http://bit.ly/1THiAeY

wats the craic

april milk price protein 3.28 . bf 4.07. base price was 25.25 cent a litre incl vat .plus .25 bonus for tbc and scc . so my price was in total 26.838 cpl .

Water John

Sorry Craic, were you only paid today?
If so, what processor is using you as a credit source? That would ave at 42 days credit.

wats the craic

Water John wrote: »

Sorry Craic, were you only paid today?
If so, what processor is using you as a credit source? That would ave at 42 days credit.

no got paid on the 23 as always just busy did not have time to up the price

Milked out

whelan2 wrote: »

http://bit.ly/1THiAeY

Interesting that ourselves Germany and Netherlands have but only 16% of extra milk in when France and Belgium have put a way higher percentage of extra milk in, 86% in Belgiums case

atlantic mist

anyone at the milk flex evenings?
new MSA for anyone wishing to participate....current one doesnt seem to cover the loan period...i thought it was for life and my childrens life and their childrens, must route it out

us production up, cheese mountains
eu production up, powder mountains
oz production down

big question is who will drop first eu or us and when?? we wouldnt be helping the cause for at least another year, plenty of young stock for next season drop the followng

eu doesnt want to set in but the will if needs be but its a slow and complex system, would hope that some sort of concession be put in for export driven companies targeting outside the eu if larger countries get their way which i still think wouldnt happen at least not as we had before possible something to do with carbon emissions, considering our processors lobbied hard for quotas removal...and i wonder can companies can they sue governments for imposing a national quota which negitively affecting their profit

mf240

What effect would a brexit have on milk price do ye think??

Farmer Ed

wats the craic wrote: »

no got paid on the 23 as always just busy did not have time to up the price

What co op was that? I thought most of them paid on the 18th now?

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

What co op was that? I thought most of them paid on the 18th now?

Is he strathroy?

Farmer Ed

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1012158458861470&id=182354901841834

I'm saying nothing!

Jaysus Christ

whelan2 wrote: »

Have just been reading the journal when I posted, so much doom and gloom, a few good letters on the letters page and on the dealers pages the story of a farmer in the uk with 4 robots which are costing him a bomb in repairs /repayments..... On the plus side Katherine o leary has a good article on the Greenfield open day

Fair play to Katherine for keeping the few euros coming in since Tim got the boot from the ifa and the milk not paying for itself.

Milked out

On the milk flex, I think somebody already mentioned it a while back but the bank would most likely match the interest rate Glanbia are offering, all it takes is a bit of competition to bring em down.

einn32

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/agribusiness/dairy/murray-goulburn-offers-milk-supply-deals-to-disaffected-fonterra-dairy-farmers/news-story/eb272f03d32934db8df982c3dcb8179d

pedigree 6

einn32 wrote: »

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/agribusiness/dairy/murray-goulburn-offers-milk-supply-deals-to-disaffected-fonterra-dairy-farmers/news-story/eb272f03d32934db8df982c3dcb8179d

Looks to me like they are going to copy us and try and tie you down with msa agreements.

Bass Reeves

Farmer Ed wrote: »

If both spouse have to take up off farm employment to subsidise the farm. Maybe taking up golf might be a Less expensive hobby than farming.

It is not about both spouses having to take up off farm employment it is rather than most drystock farms up to and maybe above 100 acres can be run with an own labour input of 20-25 hours a week maybe less if set up right. If you use contractors for slurry, silage etc. There seems to be no issue with a farmer running working as a contractor or spending the day in the mart and hauling cattle. But it is scaroilige for him to slave as a postman, mechanic, a teacher etc. I was referring to both spouses working in a drystock situation. I am in that situation and the farm is not a hobby and i hate golf

In a dairy situation I see no reason what again it is unreasonable to see a spouse working again a lot of well set up dairy farms with 70-120 cows can be run as a singe labour unit with the use of contractors. Having an external income means that you are not chasing every euro and every penny need not be a prisioner

Farmer Ed

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is not about both spouses having to take up off farm employment it is rather than most drystock farms up to and maybe above 100 acres can be run with an own labour input of 20-25 hours a week maybe less if set up right. If you use contractors for slurry, silage etc. There seems to be no issue with a farmer running working as a contractor or spending the day in the mart and hauling cattle. But it is scaroilige for him to slave as a postman, mechanic, a teacher etc. I was referring to both spouses working in a drystock situation. I am in that situation and the farm is not a hobby and i hate golf

In a dairy situation I see no reason what again it is unreasonable to see a spouse working again a lot of well set up dairy farms with 70-120 cows can be run as a singe labour unit with the use of contractors. Having an external income means that you are not chasing every euro and every penny need not be a prisioner

It is a sad reality all the same that farms that once we're able to support to families now can't even support one. Working two jobs is not. easy. Most people would consider a 39 hour week as enough.