Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

RightTurnClyde

kevthegaff wrote: »

Was talking to a friend who left for glanbia last year, he was saying glanbia are nearly top of milk league while arra were bottom. Jes us couldn't listen to the nonsense any longer, cut him short. 1 month out of 12 and he's blowing like mad. Lot of the "Big Fellas" around here moved. Funny thing the more profitable enterprises seemed to stay

Kev, if you remember last year at the time of the MSA signing, Glanbia were nearly top of the league for the few months before and after. Glanbia seemed very competitive at the time. I told my coop I'd sign if they could guarantee that they'd match Glanbias prices going forward. Glanbia really did seem to be setting the prices that time.

( they did guarantee and have stuck with Glanbias prices since...I didn't sign though)

RightTurnClyde

whelan2 wrote: »

Spoke with a farmer yesterday who didnt sign the msa and moved to strathroy last year, he said the amount of pressure lifted off him mentally is unreal and a better milk price to boot

Wonder would/will Brexit affect Strathroy

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

Was talking to a friend who left for glanbia last year, he was saying glanbia are nearly top of milk league while arra were bottom. Jes us couldn't listen to the nonsense any longer, cut him short. 1 month out of 12 and he's blowing like mad. Lot of the "Big Fellas" around here moved. Funny thing the more profitable enterprises seemed to stay

Have a look at kpmg audited figures on the journal Kev .our base price is stronger than glanbias fact at 3.6 and 3.3 .now when a+b_c price is included we are third from bottom of pile ,only dairygold and aurivo are below us .our price based on kg m/s is 3.125 e Glanbia 3.182 euro dsirygold 2.990 euro and take Barryroe at top 3.364 euro .high solids milk to an extent is penalised with us in Arrabawn

Farmer Ed

kevthegaff wrote: »

Was talking to a friend who left for glanbia last year, he was saying glanbia are nearly top of milk league while arra were bottom. Jes us couldn't listen to the nonsense any longer, cut him short. 1 month out of 12 and he's blowing like mad. Lot of the "Big Fellas" around here moved. Funny thing the more profitable enterprises seemed to stay

Any truth in the speculation that some of the guys who left Arrabawn might have left a few bills behind them? I wonder how they are managing for credit now?

mahoney_j

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Any truth in the speculation that some of the guys who left Arrabawn might have left a few bills behind them? I wonder how they are managing for credit now?

Lads yer spouting ****e with accusations like that .how about lads that left dairygold /Glanbia for arra ???.bet some of them left debt but paid it off over time .i know a good few who left for dairygold who still trade with arra ,no issues trade is trade ,business is business

whelan2

The farmer I was talking to yesterday couldn't leave until everything he owed glanbia had been paid. Which took a while

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

The farmer I was talking to yesterday couldn't leave until everything he owed glanbia had been paid. Which took a while

Tbf it's the least he might do, glanbia isn't a bank......yet

Farmer Ed

mahoney_j wrote: »

Lads yer spouting ****e with accusations like that .how about lads that left dairygold /Glanbia for arra ???.bet some of them left debt but paid it off over time .i know a good few who left for dairygold who still trade with arra ,no issues trade is trade ,business is business

I didn't suggest everyone who left. But am I not right in saying one of the issues some people had with Arrabawn was that they was an effort made by the co op a while back to tidy up out of control trading accounts? I heard figures of people in 2013 having trading accounts of 100k plus obviously something had to be done to bring that under control. It was reported in the media at the time that some got a bit offended when limits were put on credit.

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/arrabawn-will-fight-to-retain-its-milk-pool/

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

Tbf it's the least he might do, glanbia isn't a bank......yet

Why would anyone be allowed leave without settling up first

Water John

That's new to me about needing to settle all matters before leaving.
Milk supply to processor is quite separate from trading. Some who have moved continue trading as before.
What you may or may not owe on a trading acc has nothing to do with moving who you supply milk to. Certainly did not apply to any Dairygold/Arrabawn switches.
It is up to each farmer and his trade merchant to settle any accounts. Nothing to do with milk account. There is no charge or lein involved.
Of course everyone has a duty to pay any bills, exhorbitant intererst aside.
In most cases the shares in the coop are a multiple of what might be owed any way.
I even don't see why superlevy should tie one to a processor. This is to be paid down over three years. Stick to that and issue a cheque each year.

People are being walked on and its being endorsed by some.

Farmer Ed

Co op rules are clear. If you have shares in a co op and you leave then the shares should be ofset against anything you owe. The problem arises if the bill is larger than the share value. In that case the co op would have the same right as any other merchant to use what ever means available to collect the debt. What may be a problem now with the 90 days notice to leave, is that a farmer with a trading account could have his milk cheque confiscated for 3 months and then have his shares issued to him as a loan note. Great plan endorsed by Icos to put manners on people wanting to move co ops.

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

Tbf it's the least he might do, glanbia isn't a bank......yet

Not sure the minister would agree with you.

Watch: Glanbia details its new advance payment scheme for farmers @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/122393/

atlantic mist

ireland processing facilities only running at 57%, eu average is 70%

our processors wouldnt improve plant inefficiencies as they would have to pay us in line with the rest of europe, that would be a shame all right. If they would stop under cutting prices when exporting/selling it is easily achievable we are leading the charge with new zeland with accepting lower price for milk as they are trying to clear the market of higher producers

Few cents of a difference required to move supply to 365 and maximise processing facilities reduce or hold peak milk, surely the two/three cent difference in milk price paid would justify the millions spent on plant sitting their only being half used whats the capital cost on every liter, plus the effect on local communities and economy providing employment all year round instead of seasonal work, would love to see actual costings not hypothetical

suggestion that peak supplies will be determined by coop shareholding as done in new Zealand at a future point, all about re filling the coop coffers and once against they aim directly at the supplier where does it stop?

kowtow

atlantic mist wrote: »

ireland processing facilities only running at 57%, eu average is 70%
If they would stop under cutting prices when exporting/selling it is easily achievable we are leading the charge with new zeland with accepting lower price for milk as they are trying to clear the market of higher producers

There is the great fallacy of the marginal milk market - you can't take high cost producers out of the market in any real sense, because they still (and always will) have a liquid market to fill. They might well cut back to the extent that they don't produce a surplus, but only for a very short cycle.

It's like trying to put MacDonalds out of business by standing outside giving away free milk shakes -

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

It's like trying to put MacDonalds out of business by standing outside giving away free milk shakes -

+1000.

Buford T. Justice XIX

atlantic mist wrote: »

ireland processing facilities only running at 57%, eu average is 70%

our processors wouldnt improve plant inefficiencies as they would have to pay us in line with the rest of europe, that would be a shame all right. If they would stop under cutting prices when exporting/selling it is easily achievable we are leading the charge with new zeland with accepting lower price for milk as they are trying to clear the market of higher producers

Few cents of a difference required to move supply to 365 and maximise processing facilities reduce or hold peak milk, surely the two/three cent difference in milk price paid would justify the millions spent on plant sitting their only being half used whats the capital cost on every liter, plus the effect on local communities and economy providing employment all year round instead of seasonal work, would love to see actual costings not hypothetical

suggestion that peak supplies will be determined by coop shareholding as done in new Zealand at a future point, all about re filling the coop coffers and once against they aim directly at the supplier where does it stop?

Teagasc did an analysis a few years ago on the relative profitabilities of seasonal v year round milk supply.

The most profitable for farmers was seasonal supply and the most profitable for processors was year round supply.

Water John

That makes sense Buford. So should we have seasonal pricing for late Autumn and early Spring?
Lets say a down time of 6/8 weeks for both.

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Teagasc did an analysis a few years ago on the relative profitabilities of seasonal v year round milk supply.

The most profitable for farmers was seasonal supply and the most profitable for processors was year round supply.

The difference in that report linked above was - I think - 0.5c saving to processors from a flat supply curve, but 1.5c extra cost to producers.

The report - which seemed very objective and common sense to me - highlighted the extreme simplicity with which it's calculations were reached but to me they seemed as good an approach as any.

It does set you thinking about whether the right product mix combined with less seasonal supply, or just a bit more ingenuity along the way, might give us a more robust approach which didn't depend on large scale investments, paid for in advance at top dollar, and only really productive during a short part of the year.

One thing I am increasingly certain of - no matter what the efficiency arguments might be - is that one big factory, or one big processor are the road to ruin where Irish dairy is concerned.

If the extra cost of seasonal capacity for the whole country amounts to only 0.5c / litre, how does that compare with the notional saving of merging the biggest processors?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Water John wrote: »

That makes sense Buford. So should we have seasonal pricing for late Autumn and early Spring?
Lets say a down time of 6/8 weeks for both.

That's the thing. The down time is actually used to upgrade the plant and do any refurbishment required so while it's not productive in terms of drying milk, it is productive in terms of ensuring that peak supply can be processed without major mishap.

It's been a long long time since there was a breakdown in a plant that needed major movement of milk supplies fro processing.

Buford T. Justice XIX

kowtow wrote: »

The difference in that report linked above was - I think - 0.5c saving to processors from a flat supply curve, but 1.5c extra cost to producers.

The report - which seemed very objective and common sense to me - highlighted the extreme simplicity with which it's calculations were reached but to me they seemed as good an approach as any.

It does set you thinking about whether the right product mix combined with less seasonal supply, or just a bit more ingenuity along the way, might give us a more robust approach which didn't depend on large scale investments, paid for in advance at top dollar, and only really productive during a short part of the year.

One thing I am increasingly certain of - no matter what the efficiency arguments might be - is that one big factory, or one big processor are the road to ruin where Irish dairy is concerned.

If the extra cost of seasonal capacity for the whole country amounts to only 0.5c / litre, how does that compare with the notional saving of merging the biggest processors?

That was the argument advanced to merge the regional health boards into one authority and the elimination of duplication.

I wonder how that turned out:D:D:D

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

That was the argument advanced to merge the regional health boards into one authority and the elimination of duplication.

I wonder how that turned out:D:D:D

haha yes, it's the same problem every time.


Health
Compulsory Health Insurance
Water
Endless agricultural levies & quangos

I never understood why Irish radio hosts are willing to talk endlessly about the details / debate the relative merits of all of these innovations & structural reforms without shouting at whichever politician is on:

"BUT WE ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR IT, WHEN DO WE GET A REFUND?"

Water John

Its the merry go round of Irish life and we all just shrug our shoulders.

May be we can get some of those new Inds in the Dail to shout stop.

We are great a running after the wrong problem and easily diverted to it.

Sadly, it costs us in the bottom line.

Farmer Ed

Water John wrote: »

Its the merry go round of Irish life and we all just shrug our shoulders.

May be we can get some of those new Inds in the Dail to shout stop.

We are great a running after the wrong problem and easily diverted to it.

Sadly, it costs us in the bottom line.

To be fair on a more positive note. I read a report somewhere that Shane Ross had a bit of a showdown with Enda when he refused to sign of on a political appointment without the proper procedures being followed. Fair play to Ross, it may well be a more positive than negative thing that people have to be seen to be accountable for this government to last.

kevthegaff

Any hints on prices stabilising this month?

Buford T. Justice XIX

kevthegaff wrote: »

Any hints on prices stabilising this month?

Kerry will probably hold as the AGM is later in the month and it's bad enough having farmers at it without having angry farmers at it:rolleyes:

fepper

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Kerry will probably hold as the AGM is later in the month and it's bad enough having farmers at it without having angry farmers at it:rolleyes:

its the kerry coop agm thats on later in this month who dont buy or pay you for your milk

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Not sure the minister would agree with you.

Watch: Glanbia details its new advance payment scheme for farmers @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/122393/

Would it not be in Glanbia's best interest to pay an extra cent or 2 per litre rather than spending money on schemes to prolong farmers agony? Is it not supposed to be farmer owned?Agreed on pedigree 6 post wtf was Minister Creed doing being seen to promote these schemes

stanflt

whelan2 wrote: »

Would it not be in Glanbia's best interest to pay an extra cent or 2 per litre rather than spending money on schemes to prolong farmers agony? Is it not supposed to be farmer owned?Agreed on pedigree 6 post wtf was Minister Creed doing being seen to promote these schemes

I'd be very worried about taking part in that scheme- if you take the 2cpl and milk price doesn't recover to 30cpl in 2020 the money will automatically deducted from your milk price- so if you took 2cpl every month from now till then you could realistically be looking at a milk price of 15cpl in 2020

whelan2

stanflt wrote: »

I'd be very worried about taking part in that scheme- if you take the 2cpl and milk price doesn't recover to 30cpl in 2020 the money will automatically deducted from your milk price- so if you took 2cpl every month from now till then you could realistically be looking at a milk price of 15cpl in 2020

Wonder is there much interest in it. Apparently there wil be no repayments this year, so does that mean a crap price for the rest of the year?

stanflt

whelan2 wrote: »

Wonder is there much interest in it. Apparently there wil be no repayments this year, so does that mean a crap price for the rest of the year?

Can you see milk price going over 30cpl base price


Not in the distant future unfortunately

whelan2

stanflt wrote: »

Can you see milk price going over 30cpl base price


Not in the distant future unfortunately

No but we can dream. As you said you would want to have your homework done to have signed up to it

OverRide

Seriously guy's?
You'd swear glanbia were giving us the lotto and they were the great benefactors

This latest scheme is just cover for them to drop Base to below 24 subsidising them not us with our own money and our own shares
Not to mention putting a stack of shares at risk because for a lot of people even 24 is medium term very unsustainable

Add to that,people who take it up could by the time payback is triggered end up owing an entire months milk or way more
Crazy hoodwink the farmer stuff

Here's an idea why doesn't Giil do this with its future profits instead?
Ah no... that would be too much like a true Co operative thing to do and wouldn't line Bergin and Talbot's pockets

mf240

stanflt wrote: »

Can you see milk price going over 30cpl base price


Not in the distant future unfortunately

June 2018 will see it heading for 40 again.

Edit. I may have a touch of sunstroke......

whelan2

mf240 wrote: »

June 2018 will see it heading for 40 again.

Edit. I may have a touch of sunstroke......

That will just be to try and get farmers back on side to resign the next msa

whelan2

Very good letter in the journal, titled Glanbia leadership needs to move into the 21st century. Well worth a read.

kevthegaff

Take the superlevy fine getting it back at the time, but now it's a crippler 2 c off peak month supply

Jaysus Christ

whelan2 wrote: »

Very good letter in the journal, titled Glanbia leadership needs to move into the 21st century. Well worth a read.

Let me guess. It's a dairy farmer whinging. Glanbia did move into the 21 century, it's the dairy farmers who are living in the past.

Never seen so many dairy men and women writing letters. Must have only learned how in the last year or so.

RightTurnClyde

Jaysus Christ wrote: »

Let me guess. It's a dairy farmer whinging. Glanbia did move into the 21 century, it's the dairy farmers who are living in the past.

Never seen so many dairy men and women writing letters. Must have only learned how in the last year or so.

Oh great you're back. That's fantastic

MickeyShtyles

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Oh great you're back. That's fantastic

On the third day he rose again....

boggerman1

kevthegaff wrote: »

Take the superlevy fine getting it back at the time, but now it's a crippler 2 c off peak month supply

But greedy lads didn't stick to their quota up until 31/3 /2015.play by the rules and thwy wouldn't be paying a superlevy fine today.tough **** for the lads that have superlevy bills of 10,20 or €30000

Timmaay

boggerman1 wrote: »

But greedy lads didn't stick to their quota up until 31/3 /2015.play by the rules and thwy wouldn't be paying a superlevy fine today.tough **** for the lads that have superlevy bills of 10,20 or €30000

Know someone with a sl bill over 40k. Didn't seem to bother them hugely, that was the price of expansion. I certainly wouldn't fancy paying it back now I'll admit straight out.

Milked out

Plenty lads out there with no superlevy fine but still paying back quota costs of 50c/L which was where it was in the few years before 2015. I assume most running the risk of the fine surely had it it build in to costs to pay back

whelan2

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Oh great you're back. That's fantastic

IGNORE its the best option

kevthegaff

Milked out wrote:

Plenty lads out there with no superlevy fine but still paying back quota costs of 50c/L which was where it was in the few years before 2015. I assume most running the risk of the fine surely had it it build in to costs to pay back

Paying back s/l fine and quota, it's hard to stomach but that's life. Mines in the 20s, wouldn't have taken it back but I was at sheds, personal circumstances. It is cheaper to expand now than the past(shares, s/l,quota) now I just have to keep accumulating shares!

greysides

Jaysus Christ wrote: »

Let me guess. It's a dairy farmer whinging. Glanbia did move into the 21 century, it's the dairy farmers who are living in the past.

Never seen so many dairy men and women writing letters. Must have only learned how in the last year or so.

Mod:

Your post was perfectly fine, if abrasive, until you posted the sentence in bold.

You didn't need to suggest that dairy men and women have only just learnt to write.

This is your last warning to ameliorate your posting style if you wish to remain on this forum.

whelan2

So in the journal today you have corbally saying how wonderful everything is at Glanbia. Then a letter giving out about them and Bill of keeffe again saying how great they are with these schemes to help the farmers...does any other creamery get as much media coverage?

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

So in the journal today you have corbally saying how wonderful everything is at Glanbia. Then a letter giving out about them and Bill of keeffe again saying how great they are with these schemes to help the farmers...

I gave up buying the journal a long time ago on a matter of principle.

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

So in the journal today you have corbally saying how wonderful everything is at Glanbia. Then a letter giving out about them and Bill of keeffe again saying how great they are with these schemes to help the farmers...does any other creamery get as much media coverage?

Fook all these great ??????schemes .pay a decent milk price and no need for any of them

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

So in the journal today you have corbally saying how wonderful everything is at Glanbia. Then a letter giving out about them and Bill of keeffe again saying how great they are with these schemes to help the farmers...does any other creamery get as much media coverage?

That letter is like sinn fein's criticism of the government......a lot of flag waving but not a lot of constructive proposals...
I'd imagine there's drystock farmers that'd take your interest free money if you don't want it.
Comparison to water is stupid too, if you're not getting a reasonable margin selling water, you turn off the supply......not quite the same with dairy cows

Farmer Ed

Larry to drop the beef price by 10 c a kg but he will offer you a loan of 10c kg and will take 10c kg out of your cheque again as soon as the market improves . All you have to do to avail of Larry's generosity is to sign a contract with him to supply him all your cattle and sheep for the next 10 years. Even if you go broke doing so. Sure who wouldn't jump at a deal like that?