Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Larry to drop the beef price by 10 c a kg but he will offer you a loan of 10c kg and will take 10c kg out of your cheque again as soon as the market improves . All you have to do to avail of Larry's generosity is to sign a contract with him to supply him all your cattle and sheep for the next 10 years. Even if you go broke doing so. Sure who wouldn't jump at a deal like that?

Interest free and if they don't rise the price, (which is likely).....is it a present then.
As i said they're not a bank

Jaysus Christ

Look you would have to admire glanbia and the rest for what they've managed to do. They've secured an endless supply of the raw material they need for as little as they want to pay. That's why the top men get bonuses.

I know if I secured and endless supply of grass or land for **** all I'd give myself a bonus. Might even be a few red pantie nights.

Jaysus Christ

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I gave up buying the journal a long time ago on a matter of principle.

Please share what made you set out on this one man crusade.

einn32

http://mobile.dairyreporter.com/Manufacturers/Who-are-the-world-s-top-20-milk-processors?utm_source=AddThis_facebook&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=SocialMedia#.V1oI7f5GC5o.facebook

Farmer Ed

Jaysus Christ wrote: »

Please share what made you set out on this one man crusade.

If you have to ask that question then I guess you are not really Jesus after Al.

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

Interest free and if they don't rise the price, (which is likely).....is it a present then.
As i said they're not a bank

So you would have no problem getting a small loan from Larry in exchange for agreeing to exclusively sell him all your sheep and cattle for the next 10 years?

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

So you would have no problem getting a small loan from Larry in exchange for agreeing to exclusively sell him all your sheep and cattle for the next 10 years?

I'd imagine there;s more to it than that, I'm sure like all the merchants. glanbia are concerned about the amount of money that's owed.they have to tie up the worst of the bills.
Unfortunately they seem to be gambling shareholders money on whether the bills will be paid.If farmers are using a lot of merchant credit, it's because they can't get it from the bank which should ring alarm bells ....this could go very wrong for our shares

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

I'd imagine there;s more to it than that, I'm sure like all the merchants. glanbia are concerned about the amount of money that's owed.they have to tie up the worst of the bills.
Unfortunately they seem to be gambling shareholders money on whether the bills will be paid.If farmers are using a lot of merchant credit, it's because they can't get it from the bank which should ring alarm bells ....this could go very wrong for our shares

Who sets the credit limit on trading accounts? My credit limit is totally crazy, would never be near to it ever.

jaymla627

rangler1 wrote: »

I'd imagine there;s more to it than that, I'm sure like all the merchants. glanbia are concerned about the amount of money that's owed.they have to tie up the worst of the bills.
Unfortunately they seem to be gambling shareholders money on whether the bills will be paid.If farmers are using a lot of merchant credit, it's because they can't get it from the bank which should ring alarm bells ....this could go very wrong for our shares

The other option of cutting off credit, taking whole milk cheques to clear trading accounts and effictively leaving alot of lads without a pot to piss would have a far more detrimental effect, milk supply would dry up, existing suppliers would stop trading with agri side due to heavy handed tactics like say above and once the plc hasn't got access to a endless supply of cheap milk, share price would take a nice little tumble....
Long term looking at it I reckon talbot/Bergin are going to put lads in that much debt to glanbia that the only way out will be a huge spin - out of shares and they'll get their wish to wrestle back the small bit of say that farmers have in the plc side of business

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

Who sets the credit limit on trading accounts? My credit limit is totally crazy, would never be near to it ever.

It must follow your milk supply, my limit was raised 15 thousand last month and I never asked for it, was just by looking at GLANBIA connect I seen it had been raised, would be sending in alot more milk then last year....
The bigger guys could easily have limits approaching 100k

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

It must follow your milk supply, my limit was raised 15 thousand last month and I never asked for it, was just by looking at GLANBIA connect I seen it had been raised, would be sending in alot more milk then last year....
The bigger guys could easily have limits approaching 100k

Thats just asking for trouble in fairness. Its a bit like a credit card with a high limit, hard to clear and forever paying interest

OverRide

whelan2 wrote: »

Thats just asking for trouble in fairness. Its a bit like a credit card with a high limit, hard to clear and forever paying interest

Their interest rate is near 24% whilst they borrow at Blue chip company rates of less than 1%

Works out at a greater than a 10,000% margin even if they only collect half the interest and they do
Agricultural Usary like that at home is actually way by far more lucrative to them than their American businesses with zero cost
2 clicks on a pc swipes a lads milk cheque

The Co op side of the business with the same board and ceo of course facilitate this usuary as much as possible

wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Dawggone

jaymla627 wrote: »

The other option of cutting off credit, taking whole milk cheques to clear trading accounts and effictively leaving alot of lads without a pot to piss would have a far more detrimental effect, milk supply would dry up, existing suppliers would stop trading with agri side due to heavy handed tactics like say above and once the plc hasn't got access to a endless supply of cheap milk, share price would take a nice little tumble....
Long term looking at it I reckon talbot/Bergin are going to put lads in that much debt to glanbia that the only way out will be a huge spin - out of shares and they'll get their wish to wrestle back the small bit of say that farmers have in the plc side of business

Jay, maybe budget money as well as grass...
Ireland is the only Eu country I know that uses merchant credit in this way.

How many would have your proverbial 'pot to pi$$ in' if you were on a strict 30day credit?
This again skews the market...

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

This again skews the market...

only until the credit term expires after that money is collected every month anyway. It just means you have a huge bill running on credit limit and a thirty day credit limit.

jaymla627

Dawggone wrote: »

Jay, maybe budget money as well as grass...
Ireland is the only Eu country I know that uses merchant credit in this way.

How many would have your proverbial 'pot to pi$$ in' if you were on a strict 30day credit?
This again skews the market...

In fairness Irelands banking structure doesn't lend itself, as a better way of sourcing finance with their high intrest rates and fairly tetchy service record, compared to say mainland Europe....
I'd love to be able to source finance to run my dairy operation through my bank thus allowing me get alot better deals on inputs etc but in my own circumstances where I own no land the max credit per year I'm currently working off amounts to a overdraft facility of 5000 euro on a 100 cow farm with borrowings per cow owed to them at less then 200 euro cow, in the absence of a banking service that has any intrest in a case like mine using merchant credit is simply the only was I can realistically farm

Timmaay

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-09/dairy-farmers-say-trump-s-deportations-could-dry-up-milk-supply

1st ever time I've looked at this chap in a positive light ha.

Dawggone

jaymla627 wrote: »

In fairness Irelands banking structure doesn't lend itself, as a better way of sourcing finance with their high intrest rates and fairly tetchy service record, compared to say mainland Europe....
I'd love to be able to source finance to run my dairy operation through my bank thus allowing me get alot better deals on inputs etc but in my own circumstances where I own no land the max credit per year I'm currently working off amounts to a overdraft facility of 5000 euro on a 100 cow farm with borrowings per cow owed to them at less then 200 euro cow, in the absence of a banking service that has any intrest in a case like mine using merchant credit is simply the only was I can realistically farm

€5k should be more than enough with a herd of cows...
I'm running the lot here on €30k overdraft facility.
Banks should be looking at your ebidta not your land or road frontage!

Merchants have got you by the hasp when you can't pay in 30days. Interest is a massive income stream for them...but I suppose most of you don't pay interest, and if you are...you shouldn't!!

Milked out

I'd say once you keep a someway reasonable working relationship with them most of the interest gets knocked off

kevthegaff

Milked out wrote:

I'd say once you keep a someway reasonable working relationship with them most of the interest gets knocked off

Never paid interest here

alps

Dawggone wrote: »

€5k should be more than enough with a herd of cows...
I'm running the lot here on €30k overdraft facility.
Banks should be looking at your ebidta not your land or road frontage!

Merchants have got you by the hasp when you can't pay in 30days. Interest is a massive income stream for them...but I suppose most of you don't pay interest, and if you are...you shouldn't!!

In our seasonal production system, I would suggest that a limit equal to your 2 peak months is required to give you the flexibility of bulk purchase and entice suppliers to price accordingly when they know they will be paid on time.

The interest charged by suppliers I feel is quiet insignificant to the margin charged to farmers who can't shop around.

Paying consistently and on time is worth a fortune.

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-09/dairy-farmers-say-trump-s-deportations-could-dry-up-milk-supply

1st ever time I've looked at this chap in a positive light ha.

I stopped reading when he forecasted a 90% increase in dairy retail prices.

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

It must follow your milk supply, my limit was raised 15 thousand last month and I never asked for it, was just by looking at GLANBIA connect I seen it had been raised, would be sending in alot more milk then last year....
The bigger guys could easily have limits approaching 100k

Just got my trading statement in the post and mine also increased by 15k, its now over 50k credit limit :eek:

Dawggone

alps wrote: »

Paying consistently and on time is worth a fortune.

Not being smart, but isn't that called 'good business'?

I wouldn't bother where the next blade of grass comes from, but I wouldn't sleep if I couldn't pay the bills in 30days.

Water John

Dairygold have a compound interest of 1% per month. DG don't do rebait of any interest, except may be to the select few. Not a cent off to most.
Best paying number they have.

mahoney_j

Milked out wrote: »

I'd say once you keep a someway reasonable working relationship with them most of the interest gets knocked off

+1 in my experience anyway

alps

Dawggone wrote: »

Not being smart, but isn't that called 'good business'?

I wouldn't bother where the next blade of grass comes from, but I wouldn't sleep if I couldn't pay the bills in 30days.

In other jurisdictions yes....

But the opportunity does exist in Ireland to significantly reduce input prices by paying on time. ....strange as that may be..

And really good business when the sh## hits the fan like now, to have no overhanging bills...

Dawggone

Water John wrote: »

Dairygold have a compound interest of 1% per month. DG don't do rebait of any interest, except may be to the select few. Not a cent off to most.
Best paying number they have.

I did plenty of business with DG and never paid interest. Ever.

Their margin is built into the price.
Example. 35%AN is €188/ton here now, what are you being charged for 27.5%CAN?

Waffletraktor

Dawggone wrote: »

I did plenty of business with DG and never paid interest. Ever.

Their margin is built into the price.
Example. 35%AN is €188/ton here now, what are you being charged for 27.5%CAN?

£150 ish depending on where haulage is to, quality urea 180 and down for crap.

Dawggone

Waffletraktor wrote: »

£150 ish depending on where haulage is to, quality urea 180 and down for crap.

Your AN is much the same price as here. I haven't priced Urea for months.
Be interested to see what prices Irish merchants are charging for CAN...it should be ~ €150 at our AN prices...

Waffletraktor

Dawggone wrote: »

Your AN is much the same price as here. I haven't priced Urea for months.
Be interested to see what prices Irish merchants are charging for CAN...it should be ~ €150 at our AN prices...

But because some idiots decided to make bombs its off the table for solid an and i have only seen can quoted here never used, maybe in liquid it can be used? Isnt can only a tiny market so will be pricie regardless

alps

Reckon around 275 for Can and 336 for urea but falling...long way to go by the look of your prices.

Waffle...are you quoting UK prices? If so how far west do uou think that's achievable.?

Dawggone

Waffletraktor wrote: »

But because some idiots decided to make bombs its off the table for solid an and i have only seen can quoted here never used, maybe in liquid it can be used? Isnt can only a tiny market so will be pricie regardless

Quite a large market for CAN in Scandanavia and N Germany but I don't know why.
It's been a long time since the RAaaaa where using it for pyrotechnics!! Should be time to get AN back on the market.

Waffletraktor

alps wrote: »

Reckon around 275 for Can and 336 for urea but falling...long way to go by the look of your prices.

Waffle...are you quoting UK prices? If so how far west do uou think that's achievable.?

Depends how much you need to pay the port to land a boat beside Target/Gouldings etc etc... Though with likes of Yara setting up might change things a little, never have an issue with them for An/s stuff but we buy crappy urea as wouldnt dream of spreading that to wide widths.
Fert arrives in bulk now on backloads from farms stores to port so saves a little there, needs to be last load though to give time to wash out.

Milked out

Water John wrote: »

Dairygold have a compound interest of 1% per month. DG don't do rebait of any interest, except may be to the select few. Not a cent off to most.
Best paying number they have.

As I said above once you have a reasonable working relationship they do.

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

Your AN is much the same price as here. I haven't priced Urea for months.
Be interested to see what prices Irish merchants are charging for CAN...it should be ~ €150 at our AN prices...

Buying CAN+S at the moment for €250 COD so CAN is probably €245

Timmaay

Dawggone wrote: »

Your AN is much the same price as here. I haven't priced Urea for months.
Be interested to see what prices Irish merchants are charging for CAN...it should be ~ €150 at our AN prices...

Between dairynuts and fert the average Irish dairyfarmer must be paying at least 2 or 3c/l more than in France?

Dawggone

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Buying CAN+S at the moment for €250 COD so CAN is probably €245

I never swallowed the line from the merchants, 'I've only got the transport out of it'. Transport pays well...:)

Dawggone

Timmaay wrote: »

Between dairynuts and fert the average Irish dairyfarmer must be paying at least 2 or 3c/l more than in France?

No such thing as dairy nuts here Tim. I think it's a kinda Irish thing...parlor feeders can be convenient but expensive.

Water John

Its good to know that Dairygold like you. They then can dispense their largesse at their whim. Sadly, some of us have never felt the love.

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

No such thing as dairy nuts here Tim. I think it's a kinda Irish thing...parlor feeders can be convenient but expensive.

True, but they do fit in well with the Irish grass cheapy cheapy outdoor system. They involve zero labour, no pits, no waste, no machinery, no diesel, they can be turned on off up or down depending on weather and grass. And you've no money tied up under plastic.And there's the option to target feed to individual cows easily.

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

Not being smart, but isn't that called 'good business'?

I wouldn't bother where the next blade of grass comes from, but I wouldn't sleep if I couldn't pay the bills in 30days.

The worst deals I've got with the coop is when I pay monthly, the best are when youve a fine bill ran up after 12 months and you get the rep in to clear the account. Interest gone and decent reductions fert/feed prices.
With coops, pay monthly...sh1t is your thanks.

Merchants on the other hand do great deals for paying every month or Payments on delivery

Dawggone

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

The worst deals I've got with the coop is when I pay monthly, the best are when youve a fine bill ran up after 12 months and you get the rep in to clear the account. Interest gone and decent reductions fert/feed prices.
With coops, pay monthly...sh1t is your thanks.

Merchants on the other hand do great deals for paying every month or Payments on delivery

As I said Clyde, the Coops have the interest already built into the price.
Independent merchants will/should be keener on price when payed promptly.

Farmer Ed

Dawggone wrote: »

I did plenty of business with DG and never paid interest. Ever.

Their margin is built into the price.
Example. 35%AN is €188/ton here now, what are you being charged for 27.5%CAN?

I didn't know Dairygold sold fertiliser in France? I was aware their agri trading was way down and they were pulling out all the stops to shift fertiliser.

All I know is I had heifers sold to a new entrant about August last year but he had to pull out of the deal because his July milk cheque was cleaned out unexpectedly.
I also know of people who were reminded that not signing the contract would mean interest being charged on any over due account.

whelan2

Do dairygold have attractive credit limits like Glanbia?

Dawggone

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

True, but they do fit in well with the Irish grass cheapy cheapy outdoor system. They involve zero labour, no pits, no waste, no machinery, no diesel, they can be turned on off up or down depending on weather and grass. And you've no money tied up under plastic.And there's the option to target feed to individual cows easily.

Agreed.
I've an Irish lad here atm that comes from the true blue dyed in the wool low cost system, and he's kinda confused as to how easy and low cost my system is.

Jeez but he's some worker. I'd love to be able to keep him but he's gone in a month.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Looking at a few tweets and sites today, there is a small but growing body of opinion that prices have bottomed out and are beginning to rise so we should be seeing a small rise in the next two to three months.

The worst may be over:o

mf240

Sure it's no so bad

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

Do dairygold have attractive credit limits like Glanbia?

Now that would depend who was asking. It was claimed in court that a former ceo had a credit limit of hundreds of thousands and the future Ceo who was then in charge of trading was quoted as making a trow away remark something along the lines of. If interest was to be changed it could be a very profitable arrangement for the co op.

RightTurnClyde

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I didn't know Dairygold sold fertiliser in France? I was aware their agri trading was way down and they were pulling out all the stops to shift fertiliser.

All I know is I had heifers sold to a new entrant about August last year but he had to pull out of the deal because his July milk cheque was cleaned out unexpectedly.
I also know of people who were reminded that not signing the contract would mean interest being charged on any over due account.

Question:
If you have a milk account and a separate trading account, is the coop allowed to transfer money from the milk to the trading account. In our coop you can purchase goods straight onto the milk account and that's deducted from that months milk cheque. Then there's the trading account. That incurs interest and you settle up whenever.

Years ago when I was starting up even though account was settled up ever year, one year they started deducting random amounts every month from the milk cheque, and transferring it to the trading account. Hard to deal with as a startup. So when when it came to paying the bill at the end of the year and I had the rep at the kitchen table, things were heating up. I put it to him that transferring money to the trading account wasn't allowed and shouldn't be happening. He immediately went on the back foot and became very amenable.
Always wondered afterwards were they doing something they shouldn't be doing??

RightTurnClyde

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Looking at a few tweets and sites today, there is a small but growing body of opinion that prices have bottomed out and are beginning to rise so we should be seeing a small rise in the next two to three months.

The worst may be over:o

I've been getting that impression aswell over the last few days. But then when you think about it, couldn't the Uk vote for Brexit and blow any recovery to sh1t for the next 6-12 months