Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

keep going

I think things are bottoming out but we ll wait and see

kevthegaff

whelan2 wrote:

contracts run from 1st of January 2015 for 5 years, even though they were signed in June 2014(for 5 years) that in itself is annoying as the contract is 5 and a half years long not 5 years iykwim. Notice to leave can be given from 1st january 2017 ..................

Will there be a mass exodus, or will prices rise/spin out talk approaching 17?

whelan2

kevthegaff wrote: »

Will there be a mass exodus, or will prices rise/spin out talk approaching 17?

I will be gone there's only so much crap one can take

wats the craic

whelan2 wrote: »

contracts run from 1st of January 2015 for 5 years, even though they were signed in June 2014(for 5 years) that in itself is annoying as the contract is 5 and a half years long not 5 years iykwim. Notice to leave can be given from 1st january 2017 ..................

ya have less than 6 months so ......

RightTurnClyde

whelan2 wrote: »

I will be gone there's only so much crap one can take

Whelan, you can be sure, when the time comes to renew the MSAs, they'll put a few cent on the litre in months leading up to it to top the league, run a few busses down to Bellview, to show us the glorious success it is, a couple of meetings with free tea and sandwiches . Then watch the farmers queue up to sign again.

whelan2

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Whelan, you can be sure, when the time comes to renew the MSAs, they'll put a few cent on the litre in months leading up to it to top the league, run a few busses down to Bellview, to show us the glorious success it is, a couple of meetings with free tea and sandwiches . Then watch the farmers queue up to sign again.

not here any way, an elephant never forgets

whelan2

wats the craic wrote: »

ya have less than 6 months so ......

until I give my notice of 3 years...................

stretch film

whelan2 wrote: »

until I give my notice of 3 years...................

You could be a contracted supplier of liquid milk to a UK multiple if the brexit polls are accurate

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

not here any way, an elephant never forgets

Seriously can you imagine what effect a large number of farmers handing in notice to leave on January 2017 would do? They may be still trapped for 3 years but the prospect of losing a big pool of milk in 3 years would surely put manners on the nobility. Would be no harm to remind them who is keeping the shirts on their backs.

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Seriously can you imagine what effect a large number of farmers handing in notice to leave on January 2017 would do? They may be still trapped for 3 years but the prospect of losing a big pool of milk in 3 years would surely put manners on the nobility. Would be no harm to remind them who is keeping the shirts on their backs.

Ever think the plc might just go"thay thay".dont think the plc is that bothered about it now

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

Ever think the plc might just go"thay thay".dont think the plc is that bothered about it now

Why would it be so terrible if farmers stopped letting people walk all over them.
Do the figures. £1.06p a gallon in 1989 was the equivalent of 66cent a litre in today's money. This thing has been heading in the wrong direction for some time. This year may well be a tipping point. Are we just going to go like lambs to the slaughter or would it be so terrible if farmers were to cry stop?

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Why would it be so terrible if farmers stopped letting people walk all over them.
Do the figures. £1.06p a gallon in 1989 was the equivalent of 66cent a litre in today's money. This thing has been heading in the wrong direction for some time. This year may well be a tipping point. Are we just going to go like lambs to the slaughter or would it be so terrible if farmers were to cry stop?

Im just saying if I was cheif ex I would try and jettison high capital low margin business and stick to low capital high margin

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

Im just saying if I was cheif ex I would try and jettison high capital low margin business and stick to low capital high margin

Then if that would be your level of ambition for the future of dairy farmers. Maybe the farmers would be best served if the Plc was to cut all ties. At the moment farmers seem to have the worst of both worlds. The correct arrangement is just a Plc in co op clothes.

Milked out

From the outside that looks to be exactly what the 2 plc's are doing, reducing farmer shareholding until it's gone and then the processing side will be let off as they focus on higher margin areas.

Waffletraktor

Milked out wrote: »

From the outside that looks to be exactly what the 2 plc's are doing, reducing farmer shareholding until it's gone and then the processing side will be let off as they focus on higher margin areas.

Did farms not vote all this through?

whelan2

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Did farms not vote all this through?

Dont think we voted to be the bottom paying in the table..............

kevthegaff

I'd say dairy gold could b bottom talk of another cent cut

Farmer Ed

I would say that a farm level unless farmers get a better price for milk, they too will exit milk in favour of more profitable things they could be doing with their time. The minimum wage is heading to more than €11 per hour.Farmers can not be expected to work for nothing

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Farmers can not be expected to work for nothing

Glanbia seem to think there's nothing wrong with farmers working for nothing

Farmer Ed

Meanwhile in other news Glanbia and Dairygold slug it out for the honour of paying the lowest milk price in Europe

GIanbia and Dairygold at bottom of European milk price survey @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/survey-of-european-milk-processors-shows-gianbia-and-dairygold-at-bottom/

whelan2

Henwin wrote: »

any word on the milk price from kerry yet?

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/kerry-cuts-may-milk-price-211946

Dawggone

I read in the Agriland site that the av price for April in Ireland is ~ 22.8cpl and in France it's ~ 29.5cpl. I understand that that you feel annoyed at the price difference, but you're not taking into account that your PLCs are not marketing the same product into the same market at the same price. Unless your Coops/PLCs start making products other than low base commodities, then there's no real complaint on this...that's what you signed up to. (Tin hat time!)

Open day here yesterday to try to sell some quality forage to end users.
All I could get was €90/tondm for grain maize and €125/tondm for 26%pr luzerne. Wasn't going to give it away so as I'm getting ~ €4000/tonms I'm thinking on loading on more cows...anyone know the return per ton of hard/quality feed when at €4K/tms?

Farmer Ed

Only job is we all move to France. I see the people who have gone over to the euros are having a ball.

boggerman1

Gdt results,0.0%.about 24000 tons on offer

pedigree 6

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Meanwhile in other news Glanbia and Dairygold slug it out for the honour of paying the lowest milk price in Europe

GIanbia and Dairygold at bottom of European milk price survey @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/survey-of-european-milk-processors-shows-gianbia-and-dairygold-at-bottom/

Getting fed up of this bullcr#p now.
We were told at the share spinouts that if it went through that glanbia would pay a leading milk price. Then we were told that splitting up the co-op from the plc would ensure farmers have control of their own future in the business and a good milk price.
Now were being told we should have all our milk in fixed price contracts when all you get offered in the first place is 3% every time. These are only divide and conquer tactics and deflect from the real issue milk price. They have succeeded in fooling farmers into believing that buyers were coming to glanbia and looking for a certain amount of product and this is where the fixed price contracts came from. I don't believe it for a minute they've lied in the past and this is another lie it's just a divide and conquer tactic to keep farmers confused about what price they're getting. Get rid of the fixed milk price schemes and none of this i'm getting more than you and see what happens. Protest that's what.

As Mahoney said pay a proper price and get rid of all these bullcr#p schemes.
Then management giving themselves and board members thousands of shares disgraceful.

jaymla627

Dawggone wrote: »

I read in the Agriland site that the av price for April in Ireland is ~ 22.8cpl and in France it's ~ 29.5cpl. I understand that that you feel annoyed at the price difference, but you're not taking into account that your PLCs are not marketing the same product into the same market at the same price. Unless your Coops/PLCs start making products other than low base commodities, then there's no real complaint on this...that's what you signed up to. (Tin hat time!)

Open day here yesterday to try to sell some quality forage to end users.
All I could get was €90/tondm for grain maize and €125/tondm for 26%pr luzerne. Wasn't going to give it away so as I'm getting ~ €4000/tonms I'm thinking on loading on more cows...anyone know the return per ton of hard/quality feed when at €4K/tms?

Do you feed much luzerne to the cows managed a farm before that used a lot of it when grass was scarce cows went crazy for it, was some feed to lift solids/litres out of cows....

kowtow

keep going wrote: »

Im just saying if I was cheif ex I would try and jettison high capital low margin business and stick to low capital high margin

Too right.

If - as some suggest - there are multiple mergers leading to a much smaller number of co-ops, won't we be left in the high capital low margin business without any choice in the matter?

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

Too right.

If - as some suggest - there are multiple mergers leading to a much smaller number of co-ops, won't we be left in the high capital low margin business without any choice in the matter?

When they go for it though kt they'll happily spend a couple of grand per punter on promotion. For comparison the us presidential election spend will be less than 20 dollars per voter and it's considered the height of excess. Anyone who counselled against the last operation was dismissed as a flat earther but even the cynical of us didn't envisage the speed with which this has gone wrong.

Farmers need to take their cash off the table very soon because the current management and board are behaving like one of those cautionary tales you hear about where the big farm is gambled away and pi$$ed up against a wall by the useless clown who only got the place because he happened to be born first. If we don't take it soon they'll have it gone on us using the last of it to lumber us with an undercapitalized and run down dairy commodity processor completely in hock to the company store.

Waffletraktor

freedominacup wrote: »

When they go for it though kt they'll happily spend a couple of grand per punter on promotion. For comparison the us presidential election spend will be less than 20 dollars per voter and it's considered the height of excess. Anyone who counselled against the last operation was dismissed as a flat earther but even the cynical of us didn't envisage the speed with which this has gone wrong.

Farmers need to take their cash off the table very soon because the current management and board are behaving like one of those cautionary tales you hear about where the big farm is gambled away and pi$$ed up against a wall by the useless clown who only got the place because he happened to be born first. If we don't take it soon they'll have it fine on us using the last of it to lumber us with an undercapitalized and run down dairy commodity processor completely in hock to the company store.

At home we were in waterford coop, has it not been rinse repeat since the start of the Glanbia journey? Silent anger voting in someone you all seemingly regard as useless to head the board, cheerleading the watering down of your own part of the business got yeee to this point. Mumbling about crap prices when farmers are increasing supplying more than they could possibly make into cheese is pointless.

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

Too right.

If - as some suggest - there are multiple mergers leading to a much smaller number of co-ops, won't we be left in the high capital low margin business without any choice in the matter?

Low margin we are used to. No margin or making a loss is definitely not sustainable. If you were to go back and read some of the spin that we were being fed two and three years ago, it would be hard to believe that anything could be called so wrong.

kowtow

freedominacup wrote: »

When they go for it though kt they'll happily spend a couple of grand per punter on promotion. For comparison the us presidential election spend will be less than 20 dollars per voter and it's considered the height of excess. Anyone who counselled against the last operation was dismissed as a flat earther but even the cynical of us didn't envisage the speed with which this has gone wrong.

Quite.

I remember when I had just started milking cows having a large dairy friend of mine explain to me about white gold and expressing a bit of concerned caution about Chinese exports being an endless source of "white gold" ... his wife called across the kitchen to me - "well what do you know about Chinese markets, you can barely milk a cow?"

There is a bit of an unseemly urgency about this Glanbia bond, particularly if you feel that markets are more or less as low as they are going to go for a while. If those taking it up also pay down trading accounts & taking into account the extraordinary 45% for unspecified working capital you'd be forgiven for thinking that they had just hocked the plc shares - or just plain lost them, depending on the conversion terms - for an expansion war-chest, without having to sell the whole concept to the members.

If I was a Glanbia supplier I think I'd be milking in a baseball hat with the words "fool me once" embroidered in bold type across the front.

yosemitesam1

Dawggone wrote: »

Open day here yesterday to try to sell some quality forage to end users.
All I could get was €90/tondm for grain maize and €125/tondm for 26%pr luzerne. Wasn't going to give it away so as I'm getting ~ €4000/tonms I'm thinking on loading on more cows...anyone know the return per ton of hard/quality feed when at €4K/tms?

With those prices it probably works out better than our 7c/kg grass that gives us our "competitive advantage" over ye, even if you were to have our sh1tty price

freedominacup

Waffletraktor wrote: »

At home we were in waterford coop, has it not been rinse repeat since the start of the Glanbia journey? Silent anger voting in someone you all seemingly regard as useless to head the board, cheerleading the watering down of your own part of the business got yeee to this point. Mumbling about crap prices when farmers are increasing supplying more than they could possibly make into cheese is pointless.

Fwiw in my area our consciences are clear. We have voted against every dilution of the shareholding.

freedominacup

kowtow wrote: »

Quite.

I remember when I had just started milking cows having a large dairy friend of mine explain to me about white gold and expressing a bit of concerned caution about Chinese exports being an endless source of "white gold" ... his wife called across the kitchen to me - "well what do you know about Chinese markets, you can barely milk a cow?"

There is a bit of an unseemly urgency about this Glanbia bond, particularly if you feel that markets are more or less as low as they are going to go for a while. If those taking it up also pay down trading accounts & taking into account the extraordinary 45% for unspecified working capital you'd be forgiven for thinking that they had just hocked the plc shares - or just plain lost them, depending on the conversion terms - for an expansion war-chest, without having to sell the whole concept to the members.

If I was a Glanbia supplier I think I'd be milking in a baseball hat with the words "fool me once" embroidered in bold type across the front.

They should have bought those hats in 1987.

The board got carte Blanche in the last spin out to horse away down to well under 30% without having to refer to anyone.

RightTurnClyde

Dawggone wrote: »

I read in the Agriland site that the av price for April in Ireland is ~ 22.8cpl and in France it's ~ 29.5cpl. I understand that that you feel annoyed at the price difference, but you're not taking into account that your PLCs are not marketing the same product into the same market at the same price. Unless your Coops/PLCs start making products other than low base commodities, then there's no real complaint on this...that's what you signed up to. (Tin hat time

That light bulb hasn't yet and won't come on for a long time.
I met with a rep from a coop that supplies into Glanbia, and he was genuinely perplexed as to why Glanbia weren't topping the league consistently. " Shure they have the scale" No matter how much I went on about product mix and marginal milk...just didn't get it. That was 18 months ago
At a talk 12 months ago, where Pat Dillon was speaking, about milk prices andd again I drew down on product mix. ( as an explanation as to the U.S. milk price). Wouldn't hear of it under any circumstance. Bluntly refused to answer, there was another reason but couldnt give it.
Teagasc, farming media and the coops have not only nailed their colours to the NZ mast at milk production level, but also at processing level. They were unable to see the reason why NZ milk price trailed behind global prices by 5c or more for years.
And now we're left with the full version of NZ dairying, top to toe.
I Wish Teagasc, the IFJ and the coops would put as much effort into producing and promoting a product that's saleable as they do harping on and on and on and on about low cost production.
Teagasc, IFJ and coops do yere F**king jobs. Stop looking at farmers to squeeze another cent out of. Do yere F**king jobs, we're doing ours.

Henwin

kerry have dropped their milk price by 1 cent:mad:

Farmer Ed

kevthegaff wrote: »

I'd say dairy gold could b bottom talk of another cent cut

Very handy for them not to pay until the 21 or 22th. Let the other Co ops be the first to break the bad news.

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Quite.

I remember when I had just started milking cows having a large dairy friend of mine explain to me about white gold and expressing a bit of concerned caution about Chinese exports being an endless source of "white gold" ... his wife called across the kitchen to me - "well what do you know about Chinese markets, you can barely milk a cow?"

.

Lol. Says it all really.

Dawggone

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Teagasc, farming media and the coops have not only nailed their colours to the NZ mast at milk production level, but also at processing level. They were unable to see the reason why NZ milk price trailed behind global prices by 5c or more for years.
And now we're left with the full version of NZ dairying, top to toe.
I Wish Teagasc, the IFJ and the coops would put as much effort into producing and promoting a product that's saleable as they do harping on and on and on and on about low cost production.
Teagasc, IFJ and coops do yere F**king jobs. Stop looking at farmers to squeeze another cent out of. Do yere F**king jobs, we're doing ours.

+1. Nutshell.
The industry is in dire need of another Dr. Tony O Reilly.

The real (spooky) issue is that of the marginal litres of the likes of us here...

Waffletraktor

freedominacup wrote: »

Fwiw in my area our consciences are clear. We have voted against every dilution of the shareholding.

Maybe so but others didnt, im sure there will be good times in dairy whatever the end result of all this is. Just if you remain on this course dont expect to get the best of it it would seem.

atlantic mist

we are being paid based on protein and butterfat, nothing for whey or lactose, were milking the cows and they are milking us

pedigree i think our biggest problem is the secretary and ceo of coop hold the same position in the plc, its a complete conflict of interest and they have shown a complete abuse of power in the role

our coop Secretary actual sat pruning his nails at a meeting in dungarvan while making the comment that they thought more farmers would sell the shares on spin out and they will be looking at further avenue to address this....here we are!! they are following the kerry group lead, however i think glanbia has had more profit warnings since its establishment than kerry, they have over paid for companies in america and have a nice debt pile

we are one of the suppliers who has increased production, i think were now supplying double what we were pre quota, debts has caused us to keep increasing to try and spread cost but only so far we can go, the model of gii wouldnt provide me with a sustainable way of living so need to start looking at another avenues as piling on more debt is not the answer, keep loans withing stock value and have some sort of exit plan

gii business model is based on low prices with a base of sub 28c, my milk development manager told me they would have issues with me over my cost of production prior to spin out, i replied that once the bundle of cash is spent by coop members on spin out i can see a supplier revolt occuring

Milked out

I think we are actually a net importer of lactose, could be wrong but read it somewhere I think. It's used a lot in the pharmaceutical industry. What needs to be done to it I'm not sure in terms of processing

browned

As far as I know Carbery are cutting their price by 0.5 c/l and the coop are going to support the price by a 0.5 c/l so no change in price down here.

whelan2

browned wrote: »

As far as I know Carbery are cutting their price by 0.5 c/l and the coop are going to support the price by a 0.5 c/l so no change in price down here.

what is it?

browned

whelan2 wrote: »

what is it?

23.7 I think.

Farmer Ed

atlantic mist wrote: »

we are being paid based on protein and butterfat, nothing for whey or lactose, were milking the cows and they are milking us

pedigree i think our biggest problem is the secretary and ceo of coop hold the same position in the plc, its a complete conflict of interest and they have shown a complete abuse of power in the role

our coop Secretary actual sat pruning his nails at a meeting in dungarvan while making the comment that they thought more farmers would sell the shares on spin out and they will be looking at further avenue to address this....here we are!! they are following the kerry group lead, however i think glanbia has had more profit warnings since its establishment than kerry, they have over paid for companies in america and have a nice debt pile

we are one of the suppliers who has increased production, i think were now supplying double what we were pre quota, debts has caused us to keep increasing to try and spread cost but only so far we can go, the model of gii wouldnt provide me with a sustainable way of living so need to start looking at another avenues as piling on more debt is not the answer, keep loans withing stock value and have some sort of exit plan

gii business model is based on low prices with a base of sub 28c, my milk development manager told me they would have issues with me over my cost of production prior to spin out, i replied that once the bundle of cash is spent by coop members on spin out i can see a supplier revolt occuring

That is an excellent question. What exactly is the whey and the lactose worth? It's very easy to calculate the value of cheese or powder and say it is only returning 20c or whatever. But that is not the full story? We should have some idea as to what the remainder of the litre of milk is returning? .. Even people here who claim to have served on co op boards and they don't seem to know what the whey might be returning???? Anyone?? Please?? Why the mystery?????

pedigree 6

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/80708502/major-parts-of-agriculture-are-in-crisis

kowtow

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

Teagasc, farming media and the coops have not only nailed their colours to the NZ mast at milk production level, but also at processing level.

Speaking of production level and NZ model, I have to say very unimpressed with Aidan Brennan article in the journal about the profitability (or not) of feeding cows given low feed prices.

I'm totally unqualified to agree or disagree with his conclusion that grass is cheaper, but I can spot a desperate argument a mile away and that was the way the article was written - basically "it might seem profitable to feed cows this summer, but when we studied farms that fed nuts we found they had all sorts of other costs which I won't go into here, so basically even though ration is cheap it still won't be profitable. Nothing to see here"

I think the establishment needs to stop alternately cheer-leading and patronising farmers and start learning from them.

stretch film

kowtow wrote: »

Speaking of production level and NZ model, I have to say very unimpressed with Aidan Brennan article in the journal about the profitability (or not) of feeding cows given low feed prices.

I'm totally unqualified to agree or disagree with his conclusion that grass is cheaper, but I can spot a desperate argument a mile away and that was the way the article was written - basically "it might seem profitable to feed cows this summer, but when we studied farms that fed nuts we found they had all sorts of other costs which I won't go into here, so basically even though ration is cheap it still won't be profitable. Nothing to see here"

I think the establishment needs to stop alternately cheer-leading and patronising farmers and start learning from them.

He copped a fair bit of flak on Twitter from a regular contributor here.
Either our man has fantastically efficient cow's when it comes to milk from forage or their overall efficiency in turning various sources of energy into litres is greatly underestimated .

jaymla627

kowtow wrote: »

Speaking of production level and NZ model, I have to say very unimpressed with Aidan Brennan article in the journal about the profitability (or not) of feeding cows given low feed prices.

I'm totally unqualified to agree or disagree with his conclusion that grass is cheaper, but I can spot a desperate argument a mile away and that was the way the article was written - basically "it might seem profitable to feed cows this summer, but when we studied farms that fed nuts we found they had all sorts of other costs which I won't go into here, so basically even though ration is cheap it still won't be profitable. Nothing to see here"

I think the establishment needs to stop alternately cheer-leading and patronising farmers and start learning from them.

You should take a look over at his twitter account ww3 kicked off, even had John roache in trying to back him up his argument about the magical .6 litres of milk been the average return per 1kg of meal put in....
Would agree with the above statement in relation to a 450 kg jr cross cow as have them here and they simply don't respond to feed also have 600kg holstein cows currently topping out at 40 plus litres on 8 kg of meal with the crossbreds on 1.5kg doing around 22 but they would have you believe the holstein is doing 35 litres of grass