Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

OverRide

mahoney_j wrote: »

Fully agree ,no point whinging here tho ,start making noise ,keep phoning and asking questions of board members and what there at ,organise protests ,picket bellview ,don't let trucks in or out ,have them balls to form a group and challenge the Msa .

I'm aware of a lot of people who plan to give the 2 yrs notice on the Msa
Its not enough, but plans are afoot,informal meetings are happening here and there already, which will escalate?

6270red

mahoney_j wrote: »

Fully agree ,no point whinging here tho ,start making noise ,keep phoning and asking questions of board members and what there at ,organise protests ,picket bellview ,don't let trucks in or out ,have them balls to form a group and challenge the Msa .

Dead right, but we won't do it! Why? People are questioning why we are taking Kerry Plc to arbitration over commitments made, do you think we have the balls to blockade? I don't.

kevthegaff

Question is do processors want more supplier s if msa is broken.

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

Question is do processors want more supplier s if msa is broken.

We held milk price at 23.68 Kev ,

Farmer Ed

OverRide wrote: »

I'm aware of a lot of people who plan to give the 2 yrs notice on the Msa
Its not enough, but plans are afoot,informal meetings are happening here and there already, which will escalate?

If one possitive things come out of this maybe it is that farmer's are beginning to realise that they can't always belive everything they are told by people In the top table. It's about time farmer's started to ask hard questions.
Amazing to observe how people who even a few months ago didn't see any problem finally beginning to wake up to the reality of where we are

whelan2

OverRide wrote: »

I'm aware of a lot of people who plan to give the 2 yrs notice on the Msa
Its not enough, but plans are afoot,informal meetings are happening here and there already, which will escalate?

is it not 3 years notice from 1st of january 2017?

OverRide

Gosh that NI dairy farmer on six one just now promoting BREXIT must be quare thick
The UK is not going to pay a similar support if they leave,they've no record of that,they'll let farmers go bust and import

He was giving out about European rules and regulations (rightly) but doesn't seem to realise that to export to the European union, British farmers in a BREXIT will be forced to uphold all the rules with none of the input into shaping them
So lose lose

Ruxin

whelan2 wrote: »

is it not 3 years notice from 1st of january 2017?

No its two years notice

OverRide

whelan2 wrote: »

is it not 3 years notice from 1st of january 2017?

It's 2 years notice, from the 3rd anniversary of your signing date

Waffletraktor

OverRide wrote: »

Gosh that NI dairy farmer on six one just now promoting BREXIT must be quare thick
The UK is not going to pay a similar support if they leave,they've no record of that,they'll let farmers go bust and import

He was giving out about European rules and regulations (rightly) but doesn't seem to realise that to export to the European union, British farmers in a BREXIT will be forced to uphold all the rules with none of the input into shaping them
So lose lose

He is thick as you get the EU rules that the british civil service gold plate to give themselves something to do. There will be some support but not quite in the way used to

OverRide

Farmer Ed wrote: »

If one possitive things come out of this maybe it is that farmer's are beginning to realise that they can't always belive everything they are told by people In the top table. It's about time farmer's started to ask hard questions.
Amazing to observe how people who even a few months ago didn't see any problem finally beginning to wake up to the reality of where we are

The share spinout bribe is probably beginning to dry up and Rabbo bank wouldn't have allowed farmers to count it as regular income when stress testing the 'farming for Bergin' loans so a lot of them are probably getting a reality check alright

Farmer Ed

OverRide wrote: »

Gosh that NI dairy farmer on six one just now promoting BREXIT must be quare thick
The UK is not going to pay a similar support if they leave,they've no record of that,they'll let farmers go bust and import

He was giving out about European rules and regulations (rightly) but doesn't seem to realise that to export to the European union, British farmers in a BREXIT will be forced to uphold all the rules with none of the input into shaping them
So lose lose

To be fair if the British have been like our officials here and blaming every new rule and regulation on the Eu then it is not maybe too hard to see how anti Eu sentiment may be building up. Possibly if the Eu is to survive, maybe a more hands off approach may be needed. A growing number of people are getting annoyed with too much buerocacy. Maybe it's time our politicians sat up and took notice. Otherwise we could see more countries holding referendums to leave

kowtow

OverRide wrote: »

He was giving out about European rules and regulations (rightly) but doesn't seem to realise that to export to the European union, British farmers in a BREXIT will be forced to uphold all the rules with none of the input into shaping them
So lose lose

Well not quite lose lose.

I mean if Ireland's milk was say 15-20% cheaper than euro denominated milk, as it might well be in a currency free float... those world markets that we keep harping on about would be buying our powder ahead of other European exporters and the marginal milk equation would change a bit in our favour.

I think many UK farmers nowadays see the end of the road for CAP style subsidies being somewhere ahead, and would prefer to add value & run their business accordingly rather than being caught between the rock of a subsidy and the hard place of EU regulation.

Dawggone

kowtow wrote: »

Well not quite lose lose.

I mean if Ireland's milk was say 15-20% cheaper than euro denominated milk, as it might well be in a currency free float... those world markets that we keep harping on about would be buying our powder ahead of other European exporters and the marginal milk equation would change a bit in our favour.

I think many UK farmers nowadays see the end of the road for CAP style subsidies being somewhere ahead, and would prefer to add value & run their business accordingly rather than being caught between the rock of a subsidy and the hard place of EU regulation.

Eu regulation is now set in stone in Whitehall...

This is more of a political argument than an economic one.
I wish Brexit the best of luck. Something tells me that this is only the beginning. Hopefully.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Credit to farmers in the US drying up atm as demand for government backed credit soars.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usda-loans-farmers-idUSKCN0Z02OY

Dawggone

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Credit to farmers in the US drying up atm as demand for government backed credit soars.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usda-loans-farmers-idUSKCN0Z02OY

Puts perspective on the whining and moaning of dairy...

31yrs of protectionism makes dairy farmers sound a little....

atlantic mist

ah henry is looking after our tillage farmers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kDDj3scCK8

were not hitting world markets at all and were going to be very exposed until these regions develop fully, there is the population there that we can target but were trying to change eating habits and be competitive in low wage economies and have currency to factor in also the euro will remain strong against areas we are targeting, should come good for our kids or grand kids, always wonder about the markets we are targeting being the oceanic region and africa cause water is a problem in both areas and powder needs to be mixed

when markets do settle we will be paid a lower price like kt is saying, gii cant pay top eu price they need to be a few cent above nz as were focused on similar regions and short to medium term it looks like it will be a bumpy road

if were in the powder business why not link up with nz considering our seasons are opposite we could arrange supply all year round, still dont know why we dont target other eu countries more considering our price differential

Water John

If we had developed a range of product for the EU market of course we would now be paying close to 30 cent. Look at Danone price in France.
But our management has been fat and lazy over the last 30 years for the most part.

Waffletraktor

atlantic mist wrote: »

ah henry is looking after our tillage farmers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kDDj3scCK8

Basically i dont know how tillage make money, best get out for more cows i guess?! Dog on the street knows tillage farms in ireland have been subbing stock farms on feed grains for years... But any tillage farmer using a serviced agronomist producing feed grains truely deserves a paddling. Fish over a barrel they win at every angle.
Also, anybody care to put a figure on how much quota was worth per litre produced over the last 30 years? As in how much extra did restricting the size of the volume in a protected market add to the bottom line before, well, now happened?.
It may be theory crafting but dont tell me anything would be like it is today without quota...

Waffletraktor

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n12/james-meek/how-to-grow-a-weetabix
a good read

keep going

browned wrote: »

Just saw that now. Some commitment to hold price at 23.75 for the rest of the year. They must be either confident that prices won't drop much further or have heard that a sharp rise is on the way☺️

My understanding is that your board has committed to .5 cent support for the year rather than actual price but I stand to be corrected

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

My understanding is that your board has committed to .5 cent support for the year rather than actual price but I stand to be corrected

IMO if the money is in you milk cheque then that's how much you've been paid for the milk. All this thing about the board supporting the milk price I just don't buy. You'd swear it was coming directly from their own pocket The concept seems to. Have been invented by the large Co ops spin doctors and sadly the small co ops are now starting to use this method of spin also. Actually if you want to make a claim that anyone is supporting the price of milk, you could say that farmer's are supporting the industry by continuing to produce milk for them below cost

Not one person on here inspite of all the excuses being made for co ops has been able to make a stab at how much whey and lactose are contributing to mik price yet we can put a figure on how much the board is contributing.

browned

keep going wrote: »

My understanding is that your board has committed to .5 cent support for the year rather than actual price but I stand to be corrected

Still tho it all helps. should help keep me in the mid 30's for the rest of the year anyway. Heading west for the walk today? they've a creaking day for it

keep going

browned wrote: »

Still tho it all helps. should help keep me in the mid 30's for the rest of the year anyway. Heading west for the walk today? they've a creaking day for it

love to but i cant ,i wouldnt mind but when i heard it i wanted to take the whole family for a day out

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

IMO if the money is in you milk cheque then that's how much you've been paid for the milk. All this thing about the board supporting the milk price I just don't buy. You'd swear it was coming directly from their own pocket The concept seems to. Have been invented by the large Co ops spin doctors and sadly the small co ops are now starting to use this method of spin also. Actually if you want to make a claim that anyone is supporting the price of milk, you could say that farmer's are supporting the industry by continuing to produce milk for them below cost

Not one person on here inspite of all the excuses being made for co ops has been able to make a stab at how much whey and lactose are contributing to mik price yet we can put a figure on how much the board is contributing.

if a child looks at a the board and all he can see is that the board is black,how is he ever going to learn.its fairly clear cut in this case the sub in our coop is coming from other sources

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

if a child looks at a the board and all he can see is that the board is black,how is he ever going to learn.its fairly clear cut in this case the sub in our coop is coming from other sources

Oh so like it's magic money? The point I am making is the ability they are able to give a detailed breakdown as to how much exactly they are "supporting" milk price and exactly how poor cheese ext. Is returning. Yet no one can give a figure on how much the whey from that cheese is returning? The point is we are being told all sorts of stories. But we are not being told the full story. Meanwhile the likes of Kerry use the other Co ops bull about supporting milk price to renege on their commitment to pay a leading milk price.

No mention of the farmer supporting the industry by supplying his assets and labour for free or even a loss. Lets be clear about who is supporting who here. I don't think we should need to feel eternally grateful if a co op Bord allows more of the profits back to the farmer in milk price.

browned

keep going wrote: »

love to but i cant ,i wouldnt mind but when i heard it i wanted to take the whole family for a day out

You're right there. They're great family days out, should be a big crowd there even if it's a bit off the beaten path. The farm walk for this year's Carbery winner should be excellent as well.

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Oh so like it's magic money? The point I am making is the ability they are able to give a detailed breakdown as to how much exactly they are "supporting" milk price and exactly how poor cheese ext. Is returning. Yet no one can give a figure on how much the whey from that cheese is returning? The point is we are being told all sorts of stories. But we are not being told the full story. Meanwhile the likes of Kerry use the other Co ops bull about supporting milk price to renege on their commitment to pay a leading milk price.

No mention of the farmer supporting the industry by supplying his assets and labour for free or even a loss. Lets be clear about who is supporting who here. I don't think we should need to feel eternally grateful if a co op Bord allows more of the profits back to the farmer in milk price.

i cannot speak for other coops or processers,i can only speak for my own.the subs at carbery and coop levell are not coming from milk processing.the story with whey derivitives which you ask about is while cheese once delivered a healthy margin it has been eroded over the years to the point where once whey added a premium to the milk price it has now become the margin in cheese production.

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

i cannot speak for other coops or processers,i can only speak for my own.the subs at carbery and coop levell are not coming from milk processing.the story with whey derivitives which you ask about is while cheese once delivered a healthy margin it has been eroded over the years to the point where once whey added a premium to the milk price it has now become the margin in cheese production.

Yes but what exactly is whey returning? It's easy enough to calculate the cheese value. Assuming a 10% yield for cheddar and even that I would suspect that would be the lowest value cheese the likes of Carbery would be making at the moment. The question is what exactly is the whey part of the milk returning? It seems incredible that co ops can put an exact figure per litre on how much they are "supporting" the price of milk. But they can't tell us the return from all the components of that litre of milk?

I did a quick online search and their seems to be a suggestion that whey could be as high as 6% dry matter? Personally I would have thought that figure a bit high? If correct that would mean a nice yield of whey powder or alcohol or what ever the processor should decide to do with that whey. I'm amazed that some who claim to have served on the boards of co ops can't answer this question? Were you ever told? Did you ever even ask? Or was is something you didn't feel you needed to understand as you took the view that the management could always be trusted 100% to look after your business? If the latter is the case then it begs the question? Why do we even have boards in co ops, if they don't see it as their responsibility to understand the business?

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Yes but what exactly is whey returning? It's easy enough to calculate the cheese value. Assuming a 10% yield for cheddar and even that I would suspect that would be the lowest value cheese the likes of Carbery would be making at the moment. The question is what exactly is the whey part of the milk returning? It seems incredible that co ops can put an exact figure per litre on how much they are "supporting" the price of milk. But they can't tell us the return from all the components of that litre of milk?

I did a quick online search and their seems to be a suggestion that whey could be as high as 6% dry matter? Personally I would have thought that figure a bit high? If correct that would mean a nice yield of whey powder or alcohol or what ever the processor should decide to do with that whey. I'm amazed that some who claim to have served on the boards of co ops can't answer this question? Were you ever told? Did you ever even ask? Or was is something you didn't feel you needed to understand as you took the view that the management could always be trusted 100% to look after your business? If the latter is the case then it begs the question? Why do we even have boards in co ops, if they don't see it as their responsibility to understand the business?

alcohol hasnt returned a profit in 10 tens years,its main place in carberys system is it helps with the effluent processing on site.i must admit i didnt take notice of the current price of whey powder but the last time i did i remember thinking it was less than half what we had been getting at some point previously.

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

alcohol hasnt returned a profit in 10 tens years,its main place in carberys system is it helps with the effluent processing on site.i must admit i didnt take notice of the current price of whey powder but the last time i did i remember thinking it was less than half what we had been getting at some point previously.

Do you know what the yield of whey powder is from lets say a litre of milk used to make let's say Dubliner cheese? Then depending on what use the whey is used for, what value could also be added to the whey? I haven't seen any figure like that in the public domain. All we hear is world market and intervention prices of powder and cheese.
I have yet to see a full breakdown of all the components of the milk being properly valued.

slippy wicket

Glanbia milk statements up for viewing on Glanbia connect.

May net milk value 27.54 cpl
3.57 P
3.72 F

Only for the fixed price schemes , price would be very grim.

yewtree

slippy wicket wrote: »

Glanbia milk statements up for viewing on Glanbia connect.

May net milk value 27.54 cpl
3.57 P
3.72 F

Only for the fixed price schemes , price would be very grim.

Do you mind if I ask what % you have fixed?
Our coop Aurivo has their 1st fixed scheme out only 10% of 2015 milk supply at 28.25 base including vat. Have to make up my mind by Monday.

Injuryprone

DG hold price @ 22 (22.5 if you get scc/TBC/qa bonuses)

Farmer Ed

Arrabawn 23.68 for 3.6 and 3.3, payment should be in the bank tomorrow.

pedigree 6

http://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/dairy-news/dairy-world-news/grass-fed-milk-gets-eu-farmers-another-subsidy

If dawggone is reading this.
Do you get a bonus for having cows on grass in france?

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Do you know what the yield of whey powder is from lets say a litre of milk used to make let's say Dubliner cheese? Then depending on what use the whey is used for, what value could also be added to the whey? I haven't seen any figure like that in the public domain. All we hear is world market and intervention prices of powder and cheese.
I have yet to see a full breakdown of all the components of the milk being properly valued.

no i dont know how much whey powder a ton of cheese yeilds but i do know how much money it brings in and where its used.dont know the exact customers but is that really my job.

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

no i dont know how much whey powder a ton of cheese yeilds but i do know how much money it brings in and where its used.dont know the exact customers but is that really my job.

Thanks for your honesty. With all due respects if your on the co op board maybe you should firmilarlise yourself with what whey is returning. I suspect you haven't been given a breakdown as to what each component of the litre of milk is returning yet management are excellent at calculating how much per litre "they" are supporting the price of milk or indeed they put a lot of time and money in to telling the farmer how cheaply he should be able to produce a litre milk. Yet they don't tell us how much they can make from that litre of milk.

The reality is in real terms when account is taken of inflation we are only getting about a third of what we were paid for milk 27 years ago. This can't go on forever otherwise there may be a mass exodus

flutered

Waffletraktor wrote: »

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n12/james-meek/how-to-grow-a-weetabix
a good read

i have read elsewhere the the eu commissioner has being visiting the uk under the radar, canvassing for a stay vote in next week referendum, for some time

atlantic mist

24c a liter here, getting a roasting on butterfat tank not able for liters, put off capital expenditure think i might have to turn off the tank for one day collection save a lit of money on esb seen as tank is on too long cooling, quality always suffers when prices are low

got paid a small amount in latest fixed price scheme no correspondence about what % i got in but its fairly small, dont have to worry about the amounts doubling in year and half as its only a dot on years supply

ed think u should do a bit of looking into yere casein stocks in dg, word from a source within is ye have warehouses full to the roof and best before date is only around the corner, could have a strong impact on yere price if ye have to dump it as they will have to realise the cost then

whelan2

atlantic mist wrote: »

24c a liter here, getting a roasting on butterfat tank not able for liters, put off capital expenditure think i might have to turn off the tank for one day collection save a lit of money on esb seen as tank is on too long cooling, quality always suffers when prices are low

got paid a small amount in latest fixed price scheme no correspondence about what % i got in but its fairly small, dont have to worry about the amounts doubling in year and half as its only a dot on years supply

ed think u should do a bit of looking into yere casein stocks in dg, word from a source within is ye have warehouses full to the roof and best before date is only around the corner, could have a strong impact on yere price if ye have to dump it as they will have to realise the cost then

Got a letter today of allocation , piss poor amount

Farmer Ed

atlantic mist wrote: »

24c a liter here, getting a roasting on butterfat tank not able for liters, put off capital expenditure think i might have to turn off the tank for one day collection save a lit of money on esb seen as tank is on too long cooling, quality always suffers when prices are low

got paid a small amount in latest fixed price scheme no correspondence about what % i got in but its fairly small, dont have to worry about the amounts doubling in year and half as its only a dot on years supply

ed think u should do a bit of looking into yere casein stocks in dg, word from a source within is ye have warehouses full to the roof and best before date is only around the corner, could have a strong impact on yere price if ye have to dump it as they will have to realise the cost then

Thank God I no longer supply Dairygold. I'm what could be described as being part of the Dairygold survivors group. If they paid me what they owed me I wouldn't even be so concerned about them. As for stocks going out of date? I haven't heard but I wouldn't be surprised. A similar situation just a few months ago with Cheese. Had to be given away for free before it went out of date. Not looking good if your information is correct.

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Thank God I no longer supply Dairygold. I'm what could be described as being part of the Dairygold survivors group. If they paid me what they owed me I wouldn't even be so concerned about them. As for stocks going out of date? I haven't heard but I wouldn't be surprised. A similar situation just a few months ago with Cheese. Had to be given away for free before it went out of date. Not looking good if your information is correct.

How can you be sure any of the processors are selling all their product or even that they're getting full price for it......I'd imagine it's more luck than management, It has to be a buyers market out there now if some are giving away stuff.

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

How can you be sure any of the processors are selling all their product or even that they're getting full price for it......I'd imagine it's more luck than management, It has to be a buyers market out there now if some are giving away stuff.

Well if it is all down to luck as you suggest then some may possibly be cursed or their certainly jinxed. If you are correct and it is all just luck. Maybe it's pointless paying big bucks to managers. Just fire the lot of them and replace them with people from job bridge,hang a horse shoe over the door and invest in a four leaf clover.

slippy wicket

yewtree wrote: »

Do you mind if I ask what % you have fixed?
Our coop Aurivo has their 1st fixed scheme out only 10% of 2015 milk supply at 28.25 base including vat. Have to make up my mind by Monday.

Sorry for not coming back sooner.
On my 7th round of fixed price scheme.
Currently have 47.6% fixed.

Got hammered back in '09 , price went down to 19cpl so when the option was up to fix at a slightly lower price than the peak I jumped at it.

Farmer Ed

The answer to every problem. Another quango.

Dairy Forum to meet next week as crisis deepens @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dairy-forum-to-meet-next-week-as-crisis-deepens/

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

The answer to every problem. Another quango.

Dairy Forum to meet next week as crisis deepens @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dairy-forum-to-meet-next-week-as-crisis-deepens/

what about all the measures that Hogan announced months ago?

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

what about all the measures that Hogan announced months ago?

If I remember correctly one suggestion was anyone who cut production could get a 15k subsidy. I'd say a lot of lads would jump at that one at the moment. But we can't entertain that one because the co ops are not in favour of it. Yet they would have us believe they are losing money by processing our extra milk????

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

what about all the measures that Hogan announced months ago?

Hogan simply raised intervention levels and green - lighted voluntary reduction measures where counties/co-ops where permitted to incentivise suppliers to reduce supply....
Wouldn't be looking to big Phil to pull a rabbit out of a hat and implement anything worthwhile, he could do a 360 and bring back quotas that's when the fun would start

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

The answer to every problem. Another quango.

Dairy Forum to meet next week as crisis deepens @agrilandIreland http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dairy-forum-to-meet-next-week-as-crisis-deepens/

The minister has already shown were he stands by backing Glanbia's schemes :mad: