Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

Dawggone

pedigree 6 wrote: »

http://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/dairy-news/dairy-world-news/grass-fed-milk-gets-eu-farmers-another-subsidy

If dawggone is reading this.
Do you get a bonus for having cows on grass in france?

Nope.


I haven't even qualified for the ski holiday money.
Any hardship aid is targeted here by way of furnishing accounts...rightly so.

Milked out

Dawggone wrote: »

pedigree 6 wrote: »

http://www.ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/dairy-news/dairy-world-news/grass-fed-milk-gets-eu-farmers-another-subsidy

If dawggone is reading this.
Do you get a bonus for having cows on grass in france?

Nope.


I haven't even qualified for the ski holiday money.
Any hardship aid is targeted here by way of furnishing accounts...rightly so.

Bit of a misleading headline there, it's not a subsidy from the EU it's a coop paying extra for grass fed, big difference

Farmer Ed

Milked out wrote: »

Bit of a misleading headline there, it's not a subsidy from the EU it's a coop paying extra for grass fed, big difference

Funny how co ops in other countries pay a bonus for milk from grass. Obviously they must be getting a premium for it. Yet our two largest co ops are paying the worst price in Europe for what would be classified as a premium product in other countries

Dawggone

Milked out wrote: »

Bit of a misleading headline there, it's not a subsidy from the EU it's a coop paying extra for grass fed, big difference

Yes absolutely...I was just feeling a little despondent that I never seem to score any easy money!!

Dawggone

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Funny how co ops in other countries pay a bonus for milk from grass. Obviously they must be getting a premium for it. Yet our two largest co ops are paying the worst price in Europe for what would be classified as a premium product in other countries

Seriously Ed, since when is milk powder a premium product?
It's not fair to expect Irish processors to top the EU milk price league whilst manufacturing a bottom of the range commodity.
Farmers in the Comté region are averaging over 40cpl for their milk...but their milk isn't being turned into powder and dumped into intervention.

yewtree

slippy wicket wrote: »

Sorry for not coming back sooner.
On my 7th round of fixed price scheme.
Currently have 47.6% fixed.

Got hammered back in '09 , price went down to 19cpl so when the option was up to fix at a slightly lower price than the peak I jumped at it.

Thanks for the reply. I don't think it's a good idea fixing at bottom of market but suppliers who join 1st scheme will get preference in the future schemes.

Aurivo pulled price to 22cent today so looking at about 25cent with my solids, I havnt got the milk cheque yet so not sure on exact price

Milked out

yewtree wrote: »

slippy wicket wrote: »

Sorry for not coming back sooner.
On my 7th round of fixed price scheme.
Currently have 47.6% fixed.

Got hammered back in '09 , price went down to 19cpl so when the option was up to fix at a slightly lower price than the peak I jumped at it.

Thanks for the reply. I don't think it's a good idea fixing at bottom of market but suppliers who join 1st scheme will get preference in the future schemes.

Aurivo pulled price to 22cent today so looking at about 25cent with my solids, I havnt got the milk cheque yet so not sure on exact price

What time frame will yer fixed price scheme be over? I agree with you on not being inclined to fix at the bottom of the market. DG brought out there first one this year as well, I fixed the max amount, 15% of last year's supply, at approx 30 cent including quality bonus. Main reason I did is its only for 18 months so will be finished by end of '17 and I don't see milk price being above that for many of those months. If it was any longer I may not of entered it. It has brought my price up by just about a cent for last 2 months anyway

pedigree 6

Dawggone wrote: »

Nope.


I haven't even qualified for the ski holiday money.
Any hardship aid is targeted here by way of furnishing accounts...rightly so.

I haven't even paid my accountant yet.:p
Agree though on means tests.

pedigree 6

Dawggone wrote: »

Yes absolutely...I was just feeling a little despondent that I never seem to score any easy money!!

I'll swap farms with ya.:D

yewtree

Milked out wrote: »

What time frame will yer fixed price scheme be over? I agree with you on not being inclined to fix at the bottom of the market. DG brought out there first one this year as well, I fixed the max amount, 15% of last year's supply, at approx 30 cent including quality bonus. Main reason I did is its only for 18 months so will be finished by end of '17 and I don't see milk price being above that for many of those months. If it was any longer I may not of entered it. It has brought my price up by just about a cent for last 2 months anyway

30 months from the 1st of August, it's a bit on the long side. We would be fixing at 28.25 at a base of 3.6 fat & 3.3 protein.
1cent on my milk supply the last two months would have been 1600 extra, when things are tight that extra money makes a difference. I think fixed milk price has to have a role in the future the two things at the moment holding me back are the lenght of contract and the low price

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Well if it is all down to luck as you suggest then some may possibly be cursed or their certainly jinxed. If you are correct and it is all just luck. Maybe it's pointless paying big bucks to managers. Just fire the lot of them and replace them with people from job bridge,hang a horse shoe over the door and invest in a four leaf clover.

You're wondering what whey is worth in one breath and then telling us that cheese is being given away......does it make any difference what the whey is worth if all cheese can't be sold.
Moving the deckchairs around on the titanic comes to mind

pedigree 6

rangler1 wrote: »

You're wondering what whey is worth in one breath and then telling us that cheese is being given away......does it make any difference what the whey is worth if all cheese can't be sold.
Moving the deckchairs around on the titanic comes to mind

Go on rangler admit it you'd love to milk a few cows.

rangler1

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Go on rangler admit it you'd love to milk a few cows.

Jasus, what's ed at, depression in milk price across the world and he has to nitpick at the lads that are at the pitface trying to sell milk....it's not a closed shop anymore, can't he build a plant if he thinks its so easy.

pedigree 6

rangler1 wrote: »

Jasus, what's ed at, depression in milk price across the world and he has to nitpick at the lads that are at the pitface trying to sell milk....it's not a closed shop anymore, can't he build a plant if he thinks its so easy.

I'm not ed.

darragh_haven

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I'm not ed.

My name is Earl

Waffletraktor

Dawggone wrote: »

Seriously Ed, since when is milk powder a premium product?
It's not fair to expect Irish processors to top the EU milk price league whilst manufacturing a bottom of the range commodity.
Farmers in the Comté region are averaging over 40cpl for their milk...but their milk isn't being turned into powder and dumped into intervention.

Just hasnt got to grips with the new reality yet, romantic views of what was promised fading away into the abyss of open markets...
With feed wheat at about £102/ton now having doubled and halved from this twice in the last 10 years, with milling wheat having sold for over £200 ton 4 of the last 6 years if only for half a day esq volatility. Well come to the what you ve coveted for many years from your comfy protected markets, hope its as you predicted.

pedigree 6

darragh_haven wrote: »

My name is Earl

Oh god this is a long way off milk price.:D
Nice distraction for a few minutes.

rangler1

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I'm not ed.

Nor i didn't refer to you as ed
I asked you what's ed at, how did you read anything else into that

fepper

The mountains are back again,butter,milk powder, cheese grain and probably wine lakes again

keep going

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Thanks for your honesty. With all due respects if your on the co op board maybe you should firmilarlise yourself with what whey is returning. I suspect you haven't been given a breakdown as to what each component of the litre of milk is returning yet management are excellent at calculating how much per litre "they" are supporting the price of milk or indeed they put a lot of time and money in to telling the farmer how cheaply he should be able to produce a litre milk. Yet they don't tell us how much they can make from that litre of milk.

The reality is in real terms when account is taken of inflation we are only getting about a third of what we were paid for milk 27 years ago. This can't go on forever otherwise there may be a mass exodus

with all due respect you know f all about what i know about the business only what i choose to post.

Waffletraktor

fepper wrote: »

The mountains are back again,butter,milk powder, cheese grain and probably wine lakes again

But this time its not Eu doing it solo.

darragh_haven

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Oh god this is a long way off milk price.:D
Nice distraction for a few minutes.

This thread is just too intense at the moment. Thought I'd throw in some light hearted fun

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Thanks for your honesty. With all due respects if your on the co op board maybe you should firmilarlise yourself with what whey is returning. I suspect you haven't been given a breakdown as to what each component of the litre of milk is returning yet management are excellent at calculating how much per litre "they" are supporting the price of milk or indeed they put a lot of time and money in to telling the farmer how cheaply he should be able to produce a litre milk. Yet they don't tell us how much they can make from that litre of milk.

The reality is in real terms when account is taken of inflation we are only getting about a third of what we were paid for milk 27 years ago. This can't go on forever otherwise there may be a mass exodus

Using a comparison to to a protected market isn't relevant, a cow was milking the value of an acre of land every year then....product sounds a bit expensive, me thinks

pedigree 6

rangler1 wrote: »

Nor i didn't refer to you as ed
I asked you what's ed at, how did you read anything else into that

How do I know what he's at?
But I tell you this he's one of a few posters who makes you step back for a minute and question what senior management really are doing and are they doing all they can to pass as much value back into the farmers hands and can they do more.

Perserva Ed.

Waffletraktor

pedigree 6 wrote: »

How do I know what he's at?
But I tell you this he's one of a few posters who makes you step back for a minute and question what senior management really are doing and are they doing all they can to pass as much value back into the farmers hands and can they do more.

Perversa Ed.

Its this attitude that has you in this mess! What do you expect them to do with so much excess milk no one clearly wants?

pedigree 6

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Its this attitude that has you in this mess! What do you expect them to do with so much excess milk no one clearly wants?

What did the French coops do when this started.
They put as much product into intervention as they could early on and still the farmer price is not near intervention price still 30 cent. Their coops/government could absorb the price difference between inter and farmer price. By right they shouldn't have put any in till farmer price reached 24cent.

I've no answers but there's a big difference between processors in this country let alone Europe.

rangler1

pedigree 6 wrote: »

What did the French coops do when this started.
They put as much product into intervention as they could early on and still the farmer price is not near intervention price still 30 cent. Their coops/government could absorb the price difference between inter and farmer price. By right they shouldn't have put any in till farmer price reached 24cent.

I've no answers but there's a big difference between processors in this country let alone Europe.

probably depends on the markets they're going into and the product they sell.
Have to admire the way that kerry, Glanbia, LG etc have progressed,

blackdog1

Dawggone wrote:

Seriously Ed, since when is milk powder a premium product? It's not fair to expect Irish processors to top the EU milk price league whilst manufacturing a bottom of the range commodity. Farmers in the Comté region are averaging over 40cpl for their milk...but their milk isn't being turned into powder and dumped into intervention.

53c a litre to be precise Dawg . I had students from that are and her uncle mad a good living of 30 cows. They have quotas, thus never overproduce comte cheese.

Water John

Comte is one extreme, the NZ model is the other. Sadly, all the gurus in Ireland over the last 30 years choose the latter.
The EU should have been our market. We should have made branded retail products for the market and built a reputation in that.

Cheddar type cheese is almost a loss leader nowadays. Its the whey fraction that actually gives more profit.

Mention of the lactose etc and farmer not being paid for it. That has a resonance of the 'ghost sugar' that Greencore would not pay for. Same story still.

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

You're wondering what whey is worth in one breath and then telling us that cheese is being given away......does it make any difference what the whey is worth if all cheese can't be sold.
Moving the deckchairs around on the titanic comes to mind

As far as I am aware I have only heard of one co op who have allowed a large amount of product out of date. Having had a lot of dealing with them myself and the fact they are correctly paying the worst price in Europe. I can't say I'm surprised. To be fare I don't think you possibly had ever the honour of doing business with that co op and you obviously have no great love of dairy farmers in general so quite frankly Rangler you couldn't possibly have any idea what you are talking about on this particular issue.

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

As far as I am aware I have only heard of one co op who have allowed a large amount of product out of date. Having had a lot of dealing with them myself and the fact they are correctly paying the worst price in Europe. I can't say I'm surprised. To be fare I don't think you possibly had ever the honour of doing business with that co op and you obviously have no great love of dairy farmers in general so quite frankly Rangler you couldn't possibly have any idea what you are talking about on this particular issue.

are you saying that they let product go out of date without trying to under cut every other processor first, are buyers so honourable that they wouldn't buy it at 50% discount or was the cheese bad quality, everything should sell at a price

Water John

Rangler, specialist product cannot be offloaded like that. Its wasn't a commodity.
However, like all cheeses that are not grade 1 it could be reprocessed at a low value. That or worthless, with a cost of destroying it were the options.

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

with all due respect you know f all about what i know about the business only what i choose to post.

With all due respects you are on the board of a co op and I must admire your honesty in admiring that you don't see it as your business to know how much per litre all the components of a litre of milk is returning. Yet you are very quick to outline in great detail per litre as to how much the co op is supporting the price of milk. You are obviously very trusting of management if you are just taking their word for what is happening in the business. The question then is. What function exactly do you serve as a Bord member if you see your only role as bowing to the superior knowledge of managment?

Water John

Well, speaking recently to a man who had served on the Board of one of the WC coops. He said you have to stand strong or they (management) would walk all over you.
If that's how it is in West Cork, then most of the lads on other coop Boards are being ridden sideways.

Very few, have the knowledge or skills to take on management of coops.
That's the reality.

Farmer Ed

blackdog1 wrote: »

53c a litre to be precise Dawg . I had students from that are and her uncle mad a good living of 30 cows. They have quotas, thus never overproduce comte cheese.

Dawg must be slipping. Last week he mentioned he did some business with Dairygold. I still can't figure that one out?
I suppose the fact we have a French poster on here highlights how small the world is becoming. No reason why we shouldn't be chasing hi end European markets.

I know I'm going to be very unpopular here for even suggesting this. But if you look at the stance we are taking on round up at the moment. No ok I know how great it is for weed control and I know production will be effective if it can't be used. But is that nessacerily a bad thing if we are ultimately over producing. In another life I come in contact with a lot of urban dwellers and a lot of them would be shocked at the idea of us using the likes of round up. At the end of the day they are our customers. I'm only using round up as an example, but do we ignore what they want and just chase the dream of producing as much as possible for as little as possible? Or do we go more down the road of the Comte producers? I'd much prefer if we modeled ourselves on the comte milk suppliers rather than on the fonterra suppliers. More is not always better.

Waffletraktor

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Dawg must be slipping. Last week he mentioned he did some business with Dairygold. I still can't figure that one out?
I suppose the fact we have a French poster on here highlights how small the world is becoming. No reason why we shouldn't be chasing hi end European markets.

I know I'm going to be very unpopular here for even suggesting this. But if you look at the stance we are taking on round up at the moment. No ok I know how great it is for weed control and I know production will be effective if it can't be used. But is that nessacerily a bad thing if we are ultimately over producing. In another life I come in contact with a lot of urban dwellers and a lot of them would be shocked at the idea of us using the likes of round up. At the end of the day they are our customers. I'm only using round up as an example, but do we ignore what they want and just chase the dream of producing as much as possible for as little as possible? Or do we go more down the road of the Comte producers? I'd much prefer if we modeled ourselves on the comte milk supplier
s rather than on the fonterra suppliers. More is not always better.

Dawg was a customer back in day before get sense.
If you believe anything wrong glyphosate to be the reason it is wanted to be banned you really are talking nonsense, there will be no drop in production just moving to acid burn down and more cultivations leading to more soil erosion.

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

are you saying that they let product go out of date without trying to under cut every other processor first, are buyers so honourable that they wouldn't buy it at 50% discount or was the cheese bad quality, everything should sell at a price

It was a specialist Norwegian cheese they obviously over produced it and had no market for it. End result it was given away. I suspect it went for processing before it went out of date. I suspect who ever got it made a nice killing out of it. I'm only speculating on that part of the story. The choice I'm told was to give it away before it went out of date or pay to dump it when it had gone out of date. I know nothing about the casein that is reportedly going out of date. But you are correct if they couldn't shift it at a large discount before they allowed it to go this far.
Hard to believe management could make such a slip up. But if true I wouldn't be one bit surprised. Only answer is give them another bonus they obviously deserve it.

Farmer Ed

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Dawg was a customer back in day before get sense.
If you believe anything wrong glyphosate to be the reason it is wanted to be banned you really are talking nonsense, there will be no drop in production just moving to acid burn down and more cultivations leading to more soil erosion.

He mentioned another time about "his boss" in france and when questioned said he was referring to his father. I'm intrigued? Did two generations of the family move to France at the same time? I'm just being nosey.
I never said there was anything wrong with roundup. But if the customer doesn't want it maybe we need to listen. What co op did I see wanting their farmers to only feed gm free feed? They wouldn't be doing it if they didn't see a marketing benefit. It is obviously going to increase their suppliers cost of production. But interesting how at least that co op is no longer just chasing cheap milk.
Like it or not the customer is king, we need to supply them with what they want.

Waffletraktor

Farmer Ed wrote: »

He mentioned another time about "his boss" in france and when questioned said he was referring to his father. I'm intrigued? Did two generations of the family move to France at the same time? I'm just being nosey.
I never said there was anything wrong with roundup. But if the customer doesn't want it maybe we need to listen. What co op did I see wanting their farmers to only feed gm free feed? They wouldn't be doing it if they didn't see a marketing benefit. It is obviously going to increase their suppliers cost of production. But interesting how at least that co op is no longer just chasing cheap milk.
Like it or not the customer is king, we need to supply them with what they want.

Go ask him yourself.
The majority customer wants cheap bulk food comes from TESCOS!, the rest is niche though if you get a winning product soon enough you get every other fool think if they produce the same they will make just as much. Until a time net profit is worth while for extra effort the majority of farms wont change, and then it just becomes the new norm soon enough. Any farm in western europe producing cheap bulk is in trouble regardless of current crisis.
Do any irish processors have cash for brand developement rnd aquisition? Could that be Glanbias plan for this loans spare money? Doubt farmers would be keen to stump up more money for wild ventures, oh wait...

Farmer Ed

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Go ask him yourself.
The majority customer wants cheap bulk food comes from TESCOS!, the rest is niche though if you get a winning product soon enough you get every other fool think if they produce the same they will make just as much. Until a time net profit is worth while for extra effort the majority of farms wont change, and then it just becomes the new norm soon enough. Any farm in western europe producing cheap bulk is in trouble regardless of current crisis.
Do any irish processors have cash for brand developement rnd aquisition? Could that be Glanbias plan for this loans spare money? Doubt farmers would be keen to stump up more money for wild ventures, oh wait...

Good night it's way Past my bedtime I must be up in a few hours .

whelan2

Glad I was in bed early last night some waffle on this thread

keep going

Water John wrote: »

Well, speaking recently to a man who had served on the Board of one of the WC coops. He said you have to stand strong or they (management) would walk all over you.
If that's how it is in West Cork, then most of the lads on other coop Boards are being ridden sideways.

Very few, have the knowledge or skills to take on management of coops.
That's the reality.

and thats what you know,he said ,they said ,i heard.nothing further to add here i think when you can hear it second hand somewhere else

Bass Reeves

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Its this attitude that has you in this mess! What do you expect them to do with so much excess milk no one clearly wants?

Waffletraktor it is called history. Dg has a history of making mistakes. We had a bank here that has the same history it is called AIB, it had ICI, John Rusnak, the famous off shore accounts and then in the banking crisis it was virtually nationlized. Entities like AIB and DG always f@@kup. As was said of one politician if it was raining soup they would have a fork. To ere is human to totally f@@kup it takes showers like these. They are always chasing the fast buck and have no long term strategic plan in place it a case of stumbling from one crisis to the next

Farmer Ed

keep going wrote: »

and thats what you know,he said ,they said ,i heard.nothing further to add here i think when you can hear it second hand somewhere else

In all fairness anyone who left Dairygold were invited to attend a meeting with the board there are probably at least 20 people who could swear under oat what they witnessed in the boardroom. It confirmed what they had already been told by former board members who were honest enough to admit it. Basically the company secretary called all the shots. To quote the line from the song that is been recorded for charity
and due to go on sale soon. It's called "The farmer on the window" and is to the same tune as doggy on the window.

"he was met in the board room by a Lynch mob and a Seaneen who's hair was died red and a Looney who was a great enforcer and the rest of them may have been dead"

"says the farmer I think you owe me money I was hoping you may have the cash. I'm afraid of my life that you won't pay me I'm afraid that this business my crash"

It goes on to about 25 verses. I understand the one thing delaying it's release is there may have to be a shorter version recoded for radio but the long version will go on sale. But it kind of says it all. As long as a person can nod their head they usually do quite well on boards.

Just a thought we can all say we have been on "boards". Most of the people I know who have been on other well paid boards are computer illiterate and would not be able to post on here. I personally know that to be a fact.

Waffletraktor

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Waffletraktor it is called history. Dg has a history of making mistakes. We had a bank here that has the same history it is called AIB, it had ICI, John Rusnak, the famous off shore accounts and then in the banking crisis it was virtually nationlized. Entities like AIB and DG always f@@kup. As was said of one politician if it was raining soup they would have a fork. To ere is human to totally f@@kup it takes showers like these. They are always chasing the fast buck and have no long term strategic plan in place it a case of stumbling from one crisis to the next

So why would farms constantly stand collecting all the sh~t from Dgs gambling? Thats just stupid, dont be stupid.

Milked out

Farmer ed the ****e you are firing out is getting beyond a joke, every post has you quoting your unknown sources and your speculatuon as fact followed by insulting everyone who you deem a fool for not being as smart as you through stupid generalisations similar to the last part of your previous post. Your all giving out on how dairygold are fools, farmers are fools for still supplying them and then picking out out what you want from other posters posts that have no relevance to any argument. Never a potential solution given just your airing board for dairy gold bashing, as I said previously if that's all your going to do open a thread for it.

greysides

Mod:


TIME OUT !

It's a nice day outside and I've work to do in the Real World. I don't have time to deal with the flurry of reported posts from this thread overnight.

Your mission should you choose to accept it..............

Everyone go outside and BREATHE!

This message will self-destruct within 24 hours........

Kovu

So.............how are we all today? Slightly more than 24 hours but sure who's counting

Milk price is a very contentious subject at the moment, we understand that. But swiping and arguing among yourselves here is going to be of no using riding out the low prices. Discuss the prices, your levies and where the processors are fcuking you over but try to keep it civil. If needs be, report the posts and let us take a look at them and serve action if appropriate, but don't reply in a rage as it will only create more friction in the long run.

Water John

We could have pastuerised a few litres with the heat generated.

greysides

Water John wrote: »

We could have pastuerised a few litres with the heat generated.

Would make your eyes Water John.