Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

Farmer Ed

OverRide wrote: »

Eh ??? Hes referring to the co op not you
He used say feck off when they took a milk cheque,now he says thats nice (sarcasticly) like mrs brown would

I really think,when things are misunderstood that badly its time to take a break from reading here

OK my apologies. My misunstanding. Apparently there was an orgtrated closing of accounts here yesterday as some type of protest. Obviously a lot of private messaging going on. I would be expecting them back again as new members. Possibly the rumors of the demise of those posters could be a bit premature.

Kovu

PM's are the business of nobody but the sender and the receiver. Same goes for reasons behind closing accounts or opening new ones. It's plain rude to discuss it tbh, so let this be an end to it.

blue5000

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Blue I fail to see how I have offended you? I'm sure I'm entitled to share my experiences on here just the same as everyone else. Milk price is crap at the moment. I'm sorry but that is not of my doing. I have no idea what amount of private messaging has been going on here trying to band people with views that one might not agree with as some kind of conspiracy theorists. I can assure you if I was to post anything on here that was untrue. It would be removed pretty quickly. My intension is certainly not to offend you or anyone else. But I do think I have a right to freedom of opinion. Normally your posts are well balanced. Not sure what promoted you to making that outburst.

As OverRide says it was aimed at the co-op Ed, not you, no offence taken, apology accepted.
Just to clarify where I was coming from:

I used to be a supplier, a lot of my neighbours still are, some aren't anymore. In the past they were not as 'nice' about taking money from cheques for feed and fertiliser, it looks like they may have changed tactics.
I don't buy anything from them anymore as one of the first things they did when I stopped supplying milk was to close my trading account. I'd even think twice before picking up a lb of their butter in the supermarket.

In my opinion the bigger you were the more co-operation you got, ie. credit terms, interest charged etc.

Willfarman

blackdog1 wrote: »

In 2009 1 month I got no milk cheque luckily I had plenty of culls to sell at a good price. Ppl won't even have that this year. Eradication of quotas effected not only milk price but cow beef price.

Cow beef price is about a euro a kilo kilo better than in 09. Also the silage is made this year now in good order and hassle free. And grass is bursting up and very good grazing conditions now after the torrid Spring. 09 was a Cnut of a summer.

Farmer Ed

blue5000 wrote: »

As OverRide says it was aimed at the co-op Ed, not you, no offence taken, apology accepted.
Just to clarify where I was coming from:

I used to be a supplier, a lot of my neighbours still are, some aren't anymore. In the past they were not as 'nice' about taking money from cheques for feed and fertiliser, it looks like they may have changed tactics.
I don't buy anything from them anymore as one of the first things they did when I stopped supplying milk was to close my trading account. I'd even think twice before picking up a lb of their butter in the supermarket.

In my opinion the bigger you were the more co-operation you got, ie. credit terms, interest charged etc.

Are you supplying another co op or did you stop milking? When I look back at what quotas were worth and what we paid for them. Maybe getting out at the right time was a wise option

blue5000

Not milking anymore, main issue was milking platform was too small to expand.

caseman

blue5000 wrote: »

Not milking anymore, main issue was milking platform was too small to expand.

How many cows could platform hold
with all the talk of needing a couple of hundred cows mé not so sure.

blue5000

There's 45 acres round the yard, land is in 4 sections, walking roads and cows breaking into gardens was a pia. Much simpler to let off a bull with a bunch of suckler cows to the out farms.

Farmer Ed

http://theglobaldairy.com/noticias/arla-holds-july-milk-price-as-dairy-market-stabilises-47480/

When converted to euro that's 24.84 c l at today's exchange rate.

jaymla627

Farmer Ed wrote: »

http://theglobaldairy.com/noticias/arla-holds-july-milk-price-as-dairy-market-stabilises-47480/

When converted to euro that's 24.84 c l at today's exchange rate.

Glanbia have guaranteed 18.5 pence for august milk from a base of 15 pence for May milk, so around 24 cent, would love to see their reasoning for how they can pay more for British milk then Irish, probably a case of they would of started losing suppliers as no msa out their as far as I know

Water John

So how much is the MSA catching the Irish farmer for? Better pick up the phone and ring Cunninghams.

Farmer Ed

jaymla627 wrote: »

Glanbia have guaranteed 18.5 pence for august milk from a base of 15 pence for May milk, so around 24 cent, would love to see their reasoning for how they can pay more for British milk then Irish, probably a case of they would of started losing suppliers as no msa out their as far as I know

A in fairness now I don't think the UK suppliers will qualify for the free bean counters to help them budget. So instead of giving them a 2cent loan I guess they just have to pay them the 2 cent.

einn32

Waiting on Murray Golburn to announce the new season price. Lot of media hysteria, seems to be more about share holders now than the farmers! Milk intake down in April compared to that time last year. I think there is a lot of culling going on now. Weather is fairly wet/cold too. Grazing is a challenge, cows not walking so furthest away paddocks are out. Only got 200 to the designated paddock yesterday!

greysides

24/6/16

Recently we saw three posters close their accounts over disagreements in the dairy threads. While there is a lot of frustration and discontent with current milk prices and the processing industry, the recent tendency for dairy threads to become tit-for-tat arguments isn’t tolerable for those not involved.

All farming sectors go through difficult periods and during such times there may need to be changes in how threads are moderated.

Dairy threads are going to be more closely monitored and subject to stricter moderation for a while.

To that end we won’t tolerate baiting of posters, constantly reviving old arguments, posters with agendas or crusading for a cause.

Whether it’s discussion of the business or politics of the dairy or other sectors, we expect civility and tolerance toward each other and other opinions as diversity of opinion is needed as a source of different ways of looking at a situation.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert

Also please be aware that what you may post as light-hearted banter can be read totally differently by someone adversely affected by the subject matter and evoke a reaction you hadn’t intended.

The ‘Off-Season’ forum, and its anonymous posting, is available for anyone to chat about their situation.

The Mod Team.

atlantic mist

U.K. Out of eu, good thing we built that powder factory and not targeting our neighbours, beef farms will feel it. Wonder what will single farm payment b cut by there contribition

Buford T. Justice XIX

atlantic mist wrote: »

U.K. Out of eu, good thing we built that powder factory and not targeting our neighbours, beef farms will feel it. Wonder what will single farm payment b cut by there contribition

2 years off yet but as Britain is a net contributor to the budget, there will have to be cuts.

Maybe the Eurocrats will take a pay cut to help ease the pain:rolleyes:

alps

atlantic mist wrote: »

U.K. Out of eu, good thing we built that powder factory and not targeting our neighbours, beef farms will feel it. Wonder what will single farm payment b cut by there contribition

Long way off yet mist...This is only their first time voting....History would show that they will be given a chance to get the vote right..

If the exit goes ahead, it could see the demise of UK farming to such an extent that it could actually open markets for us, including the fresh milk market.

I can't see this being a full exit...The no side have had their victory and in the cold light of day as the financial implications are worked through, trade with the EU will remain of the utmost importance.

I'm not convinced that we are in for a bad hit here. Dairy farmers don't survive on SFP...We survive or thrive on milk price. ..

If UK production declines, I would suggest that Irish produce will be the next best preferred substitution...

fepper

alps wrote: »

Long way off yet mist...This is only their first time voting....History would show that they will be given a chance to get the vote right..

If the exit goes ahead, it could see the demise of UK farming to such an extent that it could actually open markets for us, including the fresh milk market.

I can't see this being a full exit...The no side have had their victory and in the cold light of day as the financial implications are worked through, trade with the EU will remain of the utmost importance.

I'm not convinced that we are in for a bad hit here. Dairy farmers don't survive on SFP...We survive or thrive on milk price. ..

If UK production declines, I would suggest that Irish produce will be the next best preferred substitution...

Their policy is cheap food

alps

fepper wrote: »

Their policy is cheap food

Yes...and they will no longer have SFP to subsidise it...

fepper

alps wrote: »

Yes...and they will no longer have SFP to subsidise it...

That was their policy before sfp invented,cheap lamb from nz,beef from south America,danish pigs, milk?????

Farmer Ed

alps wrote: »

Long way off yet mist...This is only their first time voting....History would show that they will be given a chance to get the vote right..

If the exit goes ahead, it could see the demise of UK farming to such an extent that it could actually open markets for us, including the fresh milk market.

I can't see this being a full exit...The no side have had their victory and in the cold light of day as the financial implications are worked through, trade with the EU will remain of the utmost importance.

I'm not convinced that we are in for a bad hit here. Dairy farmers don't survive on SFP...We survive or thrive on milk price. ..

If UK production declines, I would suggest that Irish produce will be the next best preferred substitution...

I'm inclined to agree. I think a lot of the predictions are just coming from a fear of the unknown. As bfp is not indxed linked in teal terms it is being reduced in value every year anyway as inflation bites in to the value of it. Maybe Brexit might even have a possitive effect of getting governments and officials across Europe to think twice before they go blaming the Eu for any new unpopular bit of legislation. Hardly surprising the Eu is loosing popularity when it constantly get blamed for everything.

kowtow

alps wrote: »

If the exit goes ahead, it could see the demise of UK farming to such an extent that it could actually open markets for us, including the fresh milk market.

I'm not sure why it should see the demise of UK farming.

As far as SFP is concerned, it doesn't come from Europe until it has come first out of the pockets of uk taxpayers. If subsidy is needed, it can be maintained and indeed targeted to suit the needs of UK farmers rather than a catch-all pan European approach, not to mention the additional layer of Brussels bureaucracy which is currently in between the taxpayer in the UK and the farmer next door.

OverRide

Scotland has already guaranteed a bps equivalent for their farmers as they've the powers to do so
NI will need an increase in their westminster block grant
Good look in looking for that
I'd imagine strathroy will be actively poaching suppliers in 2018 when farmers up north lose EU payments

atlantic mist

so whens are they holding the second referendum, im sure theyll do a nice on it:)

ibec representative on radio 50% of beef going to uk and 30% of our dairy produce, that must be a mistake is it? Glad i sent 10 cows out of parlor to larry last week weaken beef price will drop back for next few months wouldnt be able to compete with south american beef

france a bigger exporter to uk than us were only 33 largest exporter on their list they wouldnt miss us too much....well miss them thou, talks of french leaving now

guess were on our own in europe now and just before dairy crisis conference germany, france and poland ganging up on us, hopefully a few stay in france after the euros and start breeding strong

Water John

There is a distinct possibility of NI, Scotland and Gibralter staying in the EU but not leaving the UK. This is the reverse of the Denmark situation with Greenland and the Faroe Islands.
The long term market to keep a decent milk price is in Europe. UK always tended towards cheap food policy. I know it will remain a large market for us but we need to level it out more.

Buford T. Justice XIX

atlantic mist wrote: »

so whens are they holding the second referendum, im sure theyll do a nice on it:)

ibec representative on radio 50% of beef going to uk and 30% of our dairy produce, that must be a mistake is it? Glad i sent 10 cows out of parlor to larry last week weaken beef price will drop back for next few months wouldnt be able to compete with south american beef

france a bigger exporter to uk than us were only 33 largest exporter on their list they wouldnt miss us too much....well miss them thou, talks of french leaving now

guess were on our own in europe now and just before dairy crisis conference germany, france and poland ganging up on us, hopefully a few stay in france after the euros and start breeding strong

A significant proportion of the population in each country in the EU would vote to leave if they had the option.

They would be a majority in a good number of countries.

That's why there won't be many referendums in countries in the EU on whether to leave or stay.

Water John

Well be accused of leaving the core point of this thread. But you are right. We have not had a great European leader. Every one has their faults but there there is no one around like Kohl or Brandt with a long time.
Nobody good and charismatic enough to carry the people.

Waffletraktor

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

A significant proportion of the population in each country in the EU would vote to leave if they had the option.

They would be a majority in a good number of countries.

That's why there won't be many referendums in countries in the EU on whether to leave or stay.

Ne(therlands)xit is very much on the cards is it not?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Ne(therlands)xit is very much on the cards is it not?

Yeah, Geert Wilders is pushing strongly for it anyway.

Farmer Ed

Agriland report Eu prices are starting to lift. Especially butter.

Farmer Ed

http://m.independent.ie/business/irish/glanbias-talbot-to-share-in-45m-executive-bonus-pot-31248398.html still money in milk

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/business/irish/glanbias-talbot-to-share-in-45m-executive-bonus-pot-31248398.html still money in milk

That article is from last year

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

That article is from last year

Sorry I didn't see the date.just on my phone..

kevthegaff

Was talking to accountant Friday, said the number of lads going to interest only is frightening. It would be a final option but would only consider if things were very bad. Is it kicking the can down the road?

OverRide

It depends
Going interest only should really only be planned as a sub loan that you intend to pay back
As long as you are confident that you will catch up , then go for it
If the business cannot pay cap and interest at milk prices below 30c and pay yourself,then you are at nothing

The accountant should be looking at it in that light,if they aren't it's not good,as you are paying for positivity,sound advice and not for someone to worry you
Solutions to problems,not problems with solutions

Water John

Well milk is always a cycle. So banks and every body else hope the price rises. Based on that, if a farmer is tight, interest only makes sense.
Paying the interest means the loan is on hold and the situation is not getting worse.

kevthegaff

OverRide wrote:

The accountant should be looking at it in that light,if they aren't it's not good,as you are paying for positivity,sound advice and not for someone to worry you Solutions to problems,not problems with solutions

Wasn't talking about myself! But it does show the crisis we in. I'd imagine the banks would Red mark you too

rangler1

Water John wrote: »

Well milk is always a cycle. So banks and every body else hope the price rises. Based on that, if a farmer is tight, interest only makes sense.
Paying the interest means the loan is on hold and the situation is not getting worse.

My opinion is that milk is now the same as the other farm entrprises, price will now hover around cost of production including labour of course, plus or minus 10%.
If I'm right, farmers would be better to grasp the nettle and deal with the principle as well as the interest,

Water John

I'd choose to feed and educate my family, Rangler. Loan on which you are paying interest can wait a while.

rangler1

Water John wrote: »

I'd choose to feed and educate my family, Rangler. Loan on which you are paying interest can wait a while.

Can't see the banks waiting too long, in the eighties your interest rate would go up a couple percent if you tried that

OverRide

kevthegaff wrote: »

I'd imagine the banks would Red mark you too

Ah no,not really,banks look at interest only,once you come to them first,as a facility
At any rate if a loan is so big,that interest only was going to be the makings or breakings of a farm,that enterprise shouldn't be looking for any more loans but rather looking at preparing their business for going back to cap and interest so there's no need to concern oneself with a bankers notes
Currently by the way,deals are being done on interest only up to 3 years,so if anyone here needs that,go in and discuss,have your plans all done out and do it

kevthegaff

The question is what will interest rate be in 3 yrs also the principle will be the same. Thats all and good if milk price follows inflation. I wonder with brexit/EU will inflation. Stand still. With current prices may be a good thing

whelan2

At least these people are realising there is a problem and going interest only.

Farmer Ed

kevthegaff wrote: »

The question is what will interest rate be in 3 yrs also the principle will be the same. Thats all and good if milk price follows inflation. I wonder with brexit/EU will inflation. Stand still. With current prices may be a good thing

Im sorry for repeating myself but on the point of milk price following inflation. £1.06 per gallon in 1989 would be 66cl today had milk price followed inflation. That I believe is the real elephant in the room. We are increasingly heading in the same direction as coffee bean producers if this problem is not addressed,

Water John

What are the views on the ICMSA proposal for vol reduction in milk output?
They put it to the others at the Dairy Forum, and it was roundly rejected.
I think all the processors have seats on this quango.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/124890/

Could some one arrange a poll on it?

Farmer Ed

Water John wrote: »

What are the views on the ICMSA proposal for vol reduction in milk output?
They put it to the others at the Dairy Forum, and it was roundly rejected.
I think all the processors have seats on this quango.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/124890/

Could some one arrange a poll on it?

Yes the processors and the ICOS make up the vast bulk of the membership of the dairy fourm. Very noticeable how the exact name's of the members have never been published. I wouldn't have thought they would be a need to protect the anonymity of the members. I know Ifa have the liquid and dairy chairman on it, macra have one on it, ICMSA have 2 on it. Ahi have 2 on it icos have 2 on it about 6 form the department including the minister, 2 from teagasc and board bia and the remainder are from the dairy processors, first man on the list representing them is Woulfe and I believe it could be Bergin representing Glanbia.

Can't help but be reminded of haughys speech telling us we needed to tighten our belts.

pedigree 6

Water John wrote: »

What are the views on the ICMSA proposal for vol reduction in milk output?
They put it to the others at the Dairy Forum, and it was roundly rejected.
I think all the processors have seats on this quango.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/124890/

Could some one arrange a poll on it?

Of course it's a good idea.
If we're being told the problem is oversupply. Voluntary scheme so a farmer can reduce supply based on last year and get paid for it and again voluntary if another wants to increase they can (not much incentive this year a lot of the expansion has already happened).
But such a scheme would reduce supply and the farmer still gets paid. Win win.
The only caveat you'd have to read the small print that it's not quota coming in the back door.

OverRide

Seriously,in a very low milk price year ,people are going to reduce output,ending up with even lower income?
I doubt that
More realistic choices will be ending supplies of the hugely loss making winter milk and/or people getting out altogether and/or people with confidence and patience talking to their bank for support ahead of an inevitable upturn?

Water John

That looks like a large quango. Its 30/40 in size?
The three farm org have four. The processors and ICOS have a dozen.
The Dept have 6 alone. 50% more than the farmers.

I am putting the ICMSA proposal as an open question. It just seems to have got little hearing. Lets underline the word voluntary in it.

Buford T. Justice XIX

OverRide wrote: »

Seriously,in a very low milk price year ,people are going to reduce output,ending up with even lower income?
I doubt that
More realistic choices will be ending supplies of the hugely loss making winter milk and/or people getting out altogether and/or people with confidence and patience talking to their bank for support ahead of an inevitable upturn?

I wouldn't say the upturn was inevitable. Probable but not inevitable.

And banks, despite all their chatter about 'backing brave' and supporting farmers, are in reality only lending to a small portion of farmers at interest rates far in excess of what they are getting the money for.

Banks are almost totally focused on repairing their balance sheets and are not really interested in supporting farmers. A few lads I was talking to the other evening said they were being nudged towards selling shares rather than going interest only.