Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

blackdog1

Bass Reeves wrote:

Co-op no longer pay a bonus to new winter milk suppliers so they are not encouraging farmers to supply milk during this period. Along with more work winter milk is also more expensive to produce for the supplier. No point saving a fraction of a cent in production costs and spending multiples of that producing milk during the winter. All milk plants need to be taken out of production for essential maintenance during the year and this is targets during the winter period.

Most people had winter milk bonuses but gave them up and can't get them back now which I find disgraceful....you should be able to trade it like quota. My winter milk paid last year. Was getting 26c base plus 5c winter bonus. Now base is 22c. That's a 9c litre swing. I find winter bonus pays for Extra protein bought to feed cows but wouldn't cover extra labour and it's seriously punishing work. If I didn't have the bonus I would definitely get out. The cash flow is a huge thing and I find from September/October on when I'm buffer feeding wholecrop on grass and have no fert bill I make good money. Plus you can graze grass later if weather is good and aren't in a panic to graze in **** weather in February. Protein I find is similar to spring herd. I'm running 3.5 and 4.1 fat with 7500 litres on 1.2 tonne of concentrate plus wholecrop. I still have issues with a bit of fertility due to the fact the top milkers aren't on a feed to yield system so they suffer a bit.

Timmaay

blackdog1 wrote: »

I remember at a meeting with Jim Wolfe and a farmer stood up and said he was one of the few winter milk producers left and Wolfe said he'd like a few more because plant isn't maximised. But teagasc has everyone in spring milk so you lie in the bed you make. I'm the one who should be complaining. If everyone was 50/50 winter and spring our processing cost would be lower and we would have an even supply of product to sell each month not these ups and downs. Problem is they're is alot more work in winter milk so I understand completely why people got out of it.I often question my sanity

We are already chasing the lowest end of the market by dumping powder milk on the world market, and you want us all to throw away the one small advantage we have in seasonal grass production and all up our costs and our workload, just so as we can gain the likes of 1c/l at a processing level?? I don't buy the even supply to sell either, not in the world market context, we are producing peak powdered milk when the likes of NZ are at a minimum.

I would have thought you as a winter milk supplier should be complaining about any manufacturing suppliers who do milk through the winter instead, they are the ones who will allow the processors keep squeezing us actual liquid milk suppliers, why would a processor bother paying a liquid premium if they can get spring lads to produce it for no premium ha.

Timmaay

blackdog1 wrote: »

Most people had winter milk bonuses but gave them up and can't get them back now which I find disgraceful....you should be able to trade it like quota.

Agreed here fully. I've both a liquid and a surplus milk bonus (both are quite small I'll admit), I can sell the liquid bonus which I probably will if I get on top of fertililty, my surplus milk bonus usually gets used up fully between Oct and Nov which suits me grand as I'll always be knocking out spring milk then. We were actually unlucky with the surplus bonus that during whatever reference winter glanbia used to dictate the bonus moving forward we had pulled back hard due to quota, that's life though.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

We are already chasing the lowest end of the market by dumping powder milk on the world market, and you want us all to throw away the one small advantage we have in seasonal grass production and all up our costs and our workload, just so as we can gain the likes of 1c/l at a processing level?? I don't buy the even supply to sell either, not in the world market context, we are producing peak powdered milk when the likes of NZ are at a minimum.

I would have thought you as a winter milk supplier should be complaining about any manufacturing suppliers who do milk through the winter instead, they are the ones who will allow the processors keep squeezing us actual liquid milk suppliers, why would a processor bother paying a liquid premium if they can get spring lads to produce it for no premium ha.

What costs have the spring guys got that are milking on? Surely they are basically the same as the liquid guys. Also would they have problems with lactose?

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

What costs have the spring guys got that are milking on? Surely they are basically the same as the liquid guys. Also would they have problems with lactose?

I use the spring milker term losely actually, the pure early Feb compact calving spring milker would never dream of milking on past mid Dec, them 6wks of effort would probably only amount to 2 or 3 collections at peak! However the likes of me, who has been 90% spring the last few years, but due to a poor calving spread and too many autumn calvers I've over supplied my winter contract, and end up only getting manufacturing price for the likes of 1/2 my Dec and Jan milk. I'll hopefully finally cure that this winter, with no autumn calvers.

whelan2

Timmaay wrote: »

I use the spring milker term losely actually, the pure early Feb compact calving spring milker would never dream of milking on past mid Dec, them 6wks of effort would probably only amount to 2 or 3 collections at peak! However the likes of me, who has been 90% spring the last few years, but due to a poor calving spread and too many autumn calvers I've over supplied my winter contract, and end up only getting manufacturing price for the likes of 1/2 my Dec and Jan milk. I'll hopefully finally cure that this winter, with no autumn calvers.

My dad was down your way a few weeks ago at a funeral, he was amazed at the amount of farmers that are gone spring only, lads that would have been in lmp/fmp with him. How do these lads fare for cash flow. Calf sales in the autumn are a great help here. I couldnt see myself going all spring unless I could source good labour for the spring time

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

What costs have the spring guys got that are milking on? Surely they are basically the same as the liquid guys. Also would they have problems with lactose?

Milk through late calvers here, once you have good quality baled silage and feed 3-4 kgs of a good 18% nut lactose is a non - issue never dropped below 4.6% here last winter.....
From Nov to the end of Jan last year would of averaged 17 litres a day, estimated feed costs would be around 1.60 a day on top of normal dry cow diet and parlour running costs plus electric and lime would be 30 cent a cow.....
Was clearing nearly 2 euro a cow a day last year, mighten stack up this year with milk price where it's at, but i find here that without fail ill always have 2-3 perfectly good cows calve in early Jan through slipped calves our simpley a month early so might aswell be running through 40-50 cows as opposed to 2-3 and dumping their milk, only takes a hour and half total each day for milking so don't see it as that big a deal, plus I'm getting a full lactation out of any late calvers I have

blackdog1

Timmaay wrote:

We are already chasing the lowest end of the market by dumping powder milk on the world market, and you want us all to throw away the one small advantage we have in seasonal grass production and all up our costs and our workload, just so as we can gain the likes of 1c/l at a processing level?? I don't buy the even supply to sell either, not in the world market context, we are producing peak powdered milk when the likes of NZ are at a minimum.

Think we're losing another 2-3 c trying to sell a mountain of product in 2-4 months instead of over a gradual time. European production also peaks in may June. Never mind NZ.

blackdog1

Timmaay wrote:

I would have thought you as a winter milk supplier should be complaining about any manufacturing suppliers who do milk through the winter instead, they are the ones who will allow the processors keep squeezing us actual liquid milk suppliers, why would a processor bother paying a liquid premium if they can get spring lads to produce it for no premium ha.

I'm not a liquid milk supplier. Just have a winter quota.

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

Milk through late calvers here, once you have good quality baled silage and feed 3-4 kgs of a good 18% nut lactose is a non - issue never dropped below 4.6% here last winter.....
From Nov to the end of Jan last year would of averaged 17 litres a day, estimated feed costs would be around 1.60 a day on top of normal dry cow diet and parlour running costs plus electric and lime would be 30 cent a cow.....
Was clearing nearly 2 euro a cow a day last year, mighten stack up this year with milk price where it's at, but i find here that without fail ill always have 2-3 perfectly good cows calve in early Jan through slipped calves our simpley a month early so might aswell be running through 40-50 cows as opposed to 2-3 and dumping their milk, only takes a hour and half total each day for milking so don't see it as that big a deal, plus I'm getting a full lactation out of any late calvers I have

Do you have any liquid quota? Last winter I supplied just enough in December and January to fill mine, very little milk at manufacturing price. Makes a big difference to ppl

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

Do you have any liquid quota? Last winter I supplied just enough in December and January to fill mine, very little milk at manufacturing price. Makes a big difference to ppl

None at all, only I had a heap of good silage last year I would probably of dryed off in December, haven't made nearly as much good leafy bales this year with the weather so I reckon I'll dry the whole lot of mid December, depending on how the back - end goes absolutely no sense milking on at current prices

mahoney_j

blackdog1 wrote: »

I remember at a meeting with Jim Wolfe and a farmer stood up and said he was one of the few winter milk producers left and Wolfe said he'd like a few more because plant isn't maximised. But teagasc has everyone in spring milk so you lie in the bed you make. I'm the one who should be complaining. If everyone was 50/50 winter and spring our processing cost would be lower and we would have an even supply of product to sell each month not these ups and downs. Problem is they're is alot more work in winter milk so I understand completely why people got out of it.I often question my sanity

Very good point

Bass Reeves

whelan2 wrote: »

My dad was down your way a few weeks ago at a funeral, he was amazed at the amount of farmers that are gone spring only, lads that would have been in lmp/fmp with him. How do these lads fare for cash flow. Calf sales in the autumn are a great help here. I couldnt see myself going all spring unless I could source good labour for the spring time

Cash flow is all relative if you are not in winter milk you should not have the winter milk bills. It is a huge issue in beef farming as well lads turning cattle to convert fodder back into cash. It is a vicious circle.

mahoney_j wrote: »

Very good point

I agree that it is a good point that a higher winter supply would reduce processing costs however co-op would need to compensate those that do. It sould great saying that it onlt costs 1.50 or 2 euro/day extra to milk it and you have 2-3 euro/day/cow in profit/margin. However could that resource be used more efficiently to increase output at another time and result in a higher margin.

IOf you look at sheep farmers the most efficient get the majority of there money in a 3-4 month period from late May to Octobber, then they have to survive on that for an 8 month period. The one advantage the best of them have is a low cost structure during the non production period. Maybe other farming sectors need to stop chasing cash flow and concentrate on profit. Any farm output produced just for cash flow purposes or even for low margin periods hurts us all.

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

My dad was down your way a few weeks ago at a funeral, he was amazed at the amount of farmers that are gone spring only, lads that would have been in lmp/fmp with him. How do these lads fare for cash flow. Calf sales in the autumn are a great help here. I couldnt see myself going all spring unless I could source good labour for the spring time

It's an interesting one. East Wicklow traditionally always been liquid milk with our proximity to Dublin. Served us well during the quota years when we couldn't expand anyways, however it let us be very sloppy with calving interval, and the likes of progressive kept pushing liquid HOs, which didn't suit the likes of my dad who kept a simple system, no diet feeder, average quality winter fodder etc, basic winter nut. Freedom mentioned about a supplier local to us who was well known for making high quality silage for winter milkers back in the 80s, this was certainly the exception rather than the normal.

More recently, I'm seeing the gap widening at the likes of our DG meetings, the older farmers who are slow about changing are still heavy at winter milk, they won't change by now, 2bh they will really feel the pinch moving forward in this quota free times with larger volatility and especially if the average 5 milk price settles at sub 30c. The farmers who are changing are the likes of me, who have taken over from my dad, and I've zero interest in working the hours my dad needed to, and as our liquid quota forms such a small percentage of our overall supply it becomes less and less relevant, especially as we can only really expand by spring milk, further diluting the liquid milk. For me moving forward it would be a no brainer to expand away to 120 compact spring caving cows, with the bit of help in the spring, rather than have stuck at the likes of 80 cows split calving, with more work for myself and less income. I'm lucky enough to have the help in the spring however I've made the effort to go out and build up afew contacts and train in afew different lads in my milking parlour etc.

Timmaay

blackdog1 wrote: »

Think we're losing another 2-3 c trying to sell a mountain of product in 2-4 months instead of over a gradual time. European production also peaks in may June. Never mind NZ.

Would 2 to 3 c/l really make a compact calving spring milker want to convert back to split calving? For the likes of someone knocking out say 600kl, let's call his 4months mountain of milk 1/2 that, so 300k, or 9k worth of extra milk income. I know for one I certainly wouldn't go back to the hassle of a 2nd calving season, breeding season, and double my number of groups of animals running around the farm here. And if I was compact spring calving without winter accommodation suitable to milk on that's another big expense.

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

Would 2 to 3 c/l really make a compact calving spring milker want to convert back to split calving? For the likes of someone knocking out say 600kl, let's call his 4months mountain of milk 1/2 that, so 300k, or 9k worth of extra milk income. I know for one I certainly wouldn't go back to the hassle of a 2nd calving season, breeding season, and double my number of groups of animals running around the farm here. And if I was compact spring calving without winter accommodation suitable to milk on that's another big expense.

Factor in for a glanbia supplier that belview is costing nearly 40,000 euro per supplier without adding Intrest/running costs and it muddies the waters even more, that's on top of what has been spent in ballyragget along with another nice wedge going to be spent in Wexford, the debt mountain that G11 has is fairly hefty and one of the many reasons glanbia is the worst paying co-op in the country at present

Farmer Ed

I'm not suggesting for one minute that winter milk is more profitable, but if we didn't have it we would have an even poorer product mix. I don't buy in to the idea that winter guys are some how costing the rest of us. In most cases I would expect the opposite is the case. I spoke to an organic farmer during the week who told me he is getting 32c at the moment but will get 60c during the winter months. I suspect there is a very good reason for the price difference. To me that would suggest that conventional processors are making a right killing on winter milk. The only one it could possibly be hurting is the farmer who may be producing it at a loss.

Brown Podzol

Milking spring calvers to within 40/50 days of calving through the winter is really all about the variable costs as all the fixed costs will have been incurred anyway. The main cost will be feed and if you take it that a milking cow will consume 18 kg/dm as opposed to a dry cow consuming 12kg/dm then the only feed you have to account for is the 6kg over and above what a dry cow will consume. Let the extra 6kg be in the form of meal at 25c/kg and the extra feed cost will come to €1.50, add an extra 30c. for electricity etc and the daily cost of milking through is roughly €1.80 or say 7lts. Anything over 7lts is for yourself. The trick is to manipulate the diet to dry off the cow in the b/c you want her to calve down in as you won't have time to increase b/c milking so close to calving.

blackdog1

Timmaay wrote:

Would 2 to 3 c/l really make a compact calving spring milker want to convert back to split calving? For the likes of someone knocking out say 600kl, let's call his 4months mountain of milk 1/2 that, so 300k, or 9k worth of extra milk income. I know for one I certainly wouldn't go back to the hassle of a 2nd calving season, breeding season, and double my number of groups of animals running around the farm here. And if I was compact spring calving without winter accommodation suitable to milk on that's another big expense.

I'd say that 3c would be over the whole year not just winter so it would be 18k....it means the customer is getting a constant supply and doesn't have to store anything...should pay a premium for that I recon

Timmaay

blackdog1 wrote: »

I'd say that 3c would be over the whole year not just winter so it would be 18k....it means the customer is getting a constant supply and doesn't have to store anything...should pay a premium for that I recon

If it is that good then why isn't any processor offering it?? I'm absolutely not trying to disagree with you on all this btw, I'm certainly skeptical of the whole NZ, harvest 2020 and chasing the low value world powder market, however are the team of marketing quangos/board etc etc that we all pay however many millions in total actually all totally missed an opportunity like this??

OverRide

Lol Tim
A processor offer a fair price?

red bull

Arrabawn hold price for June

mahoney_j

red bull wrote: »

Arrabawn hold price for June

Minus the one cent Ornua bonus paid last month though

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

Minus the one cent Ornua bonus paid last month though

what is the base price ?

darragh_haven

mahoney_j wrote: »

Minus the one cent Ornua bonus paid last month though

How does this Ornua thing work. Are they a government body? Aren't they still supporting the Glanbia price by 1 cent.... if so, why not support arrabawns

red bull

mahoney_j wrote: »

Minus the one cent Ornua bonus paid last month though

Paying 1c bonus for June too

red bull

darragh_haven wrote: »

How does this Ornua thing work. Are they a government body? Aren't they still supporting the Glanbia price by 1 cent.... if so, why not support arrabawns

Ornua, new name for Irish Dairy Bord its a co op owned by dairy farmers

whelan2

darragh_haven wrote: »

How does this Ornua thing work. Are they a government body? Aren't they still supporting the Glanbia price by 1 cent.... if so, why not support arrabawns

no ornua bonus on glanbia June milk hence 22cpl price

darragh_haven

red bull wrote: »

Ornua, new name for Irish Dairy Bord its a co op owned by dairy farmers

Why aren't they supporting every coops milk price so? (I have no idea, serious question)

Edit. Just saw whelans response

red bull

darragh_haven wrote: »

Why aren't they supporting every coops milk price so? (I have no idea, serious question)

Thats a decision for Co Op boards to make

mahoney_j

red bull wrote: »

Paying 1c bonus for June too

I'm hoping your right ,just got text from usual source to say price was held and I presumed it was exclusive of the 1 cent top up paid last month .whelan last months price including Ornua was 23.68

Farmer Ed

darragh_haven wrote: »

Why aren't they supporting every coops milk price so? (I have no idea, serious question)

Edit. Just saw whelans response

It seems a bit Irish if Ornua are paying the bonus to every co op, then how can some of them just decide not to pass it on?

red bull

Farmer Ed wrote: »

It seems a bit Irish if Ornua are paying the bonus to every co op, then how can some of them just decide not to pass it on?

Each co op got a lump sum according to the amout of product sold through it, some are paying it out some are putting it on the balance sheet

Farmer Ed

red bull wrote: »

Each co op got a lump sum according to the amout of product sold through it, some are paying it out some are putting it on the balance sheet

Or put another way some, for what ever reasons are just deciding to keep it.

If it just makes up the overall return from Ornua, why do they even bother to itemise it on the milk statement?

kevthegaff

mahoney_j wrote:

I'm hoping your right ,just got text from usual source to say price was held and I presumed it was exclusive of the 1 cent top up paid last month .whelan last months price including Ornua was 23.68

So our base is 22.68 j?.

mahoney_j

kevthegaff wrote: »

So our base is 22.68 j?.

Atrabawn price 23.68 vat inc at 3.6 and 3.3 for June milk .confirmed

OverRide

Glanbias in the account this morning

whelan2

OverRide wrote: »

Glanbias in the account this morning

no milk statement up yet though

stretch film

Ornua offloaded a subsidiary business in UK iirc recently. The bonus is whatever portion of the sale that was passed onto processors.
Its not related to ppi returns.

mf240

mahoney_j wrote: »

Atrabawn price 23.68 vat inc at 3.6 and 3.3 for June milk .confirmed

Glanbia 19 cent plus vat. For 3.6 and 3.3 plus a flat 2 cent top up from the cookie jar.

Arabawn performing well by comparison. lorry passes the gate here an odd day. Half tempted to flag him down:D

mahoney_j

mf240 wrote: »

Glanbia 19 cent plus vat. For 3.6 and 3.3 plus a flat 2 cent top up from the cookie jar.

Arabawn performing well by comparison. lorry passes the gate here an odd day. Half tempted to flag him down:D

Circa 4 cent a litre difference in base beteween both is huge in fairness .looking deeper though our a+b-c price is very poor in comparasion to most other coops .were simply not paid enough for high solids milk .kpmg audits co firm this

atlantic mist

does the kpmg milk audit include the coop top ups as part of calculation?

which of the processors keeps putting stock into intervention?

whelan2

Can anyone open their Glanbia milk statement, seems to be a problem

Coolfresian

whelan2 wrote: »

Can anyone open their Glanbia milk statement, seems to be a problem

Was trying it for a while as well, just saying its failing to load, so must be a problem at their end.

whelan2

Coolfresian wrote: »

Was trying it for a while as well, just saying its failing to load, so must be a problem at their end.

Might be better off not looking at it

whelan2

whelan2 wrote: »

Can anyone open their Glanbia milk statement, seems to be a problem

UP PROPERLY NOW

whelan2

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dairy-package/

jaymla627

whelan2 wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dairy-package/

Seems to be a whole lot of noting again like the last dairy package, probably will be another flat rate payment gave out similar to last time, at least alot of lads will get back some of their superlevy fine

mahoney_j

25.45 at 3.87 fat 3.49'p .base 23.68 and top up for scc 0.2 cent/litre .so 23.88 plus solids for me

darragh_haven

whelan2 wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/dairy-package/

More skiing holiday money