Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

kowtow

alps wrote:

Bad dairy farmers are as scarce as a cork man with an inferiority complex...

As the only bad dairy farmer in the entire history of Cork I can vouch for the above absolutely.

Timmaay

From today's ifj. Sounds like a total bubble, and if it bursts no farmer will win. I have to laugh at the typical journal postive spin for the Irish context, we are all lowly borrowed so low cost.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Timmaay wrote: »

From today's ifj. Sounds like a total bubble, and if it bursts no farmer will win. I have to laugh at the typical journal postive spin for the Irish context, we are all lowly borrowed so low cost.

It's a bit like NZ with high land prices allowing lots of borrowing against it.

Sooner or later, land prices, just like house prices here, will have to be valued at their true cost and there will be a fine hole in their banks balance sheets when that happens.

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

From today's ifj. Sounds like a total bubble, and if it bursts no farmer will win. I have to laugh at the typical journal postive spin for the Irish context, we are all lowly borrowed so low cost.

Could have a situation where the parents could buy back the farm if it where to go bankrupt for half noting either, it's some pension scheme for retiring farmers in fairness

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

It's a bit like NZ with high land prices allowing lots of borrowing against it.

Sooner or later, land prices, just like house prices here, will have to be valued at their true cost and there will be a fine hole in their banks balance sheets when that happens.

Land prices around the world have been accelerating out of all proportion to economic value for about ten years.. I have to say that there is no single explanation except that when interest rates are negative and money can be had for nothing land at least has a little carry, and is a traditional hedge against inflation - it might just be a global bet that politicians are too vain to allow deflation to happen.. what is clear is that like everything else land will not retain such a high price relative to output indefinitely.

There are signs of growth vanishing in both the UK and in Ireland, so we'll have to see what happens next, but I would regard agricultural land at the headline prices of the past few years as a fairly high risk proposition.

alps

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Well have no coupled production here, Dawggone, but it still exists in France.

And anytime French farmers get upset, they go and protest and dump Milk and slurry and burn trucks full of animals until the government relents and gives them more money. That's my perception of French Farm politics and that of a lot of farmers over here.

It's the pot calling the kettle black, tbh, Dawg.

Here's a quotation from a German Farmer at a recent dairy event in France..

"The French like to drink wine to relax ...while the rest of us drink coffee to stay awake"

OverRide

Timmaay wrote: »

From today's ifj. Sounds like a total bubble, and if it bursts no farmer will win. I have to laugh at the typical journal postive spin for the Irish context, we are all lowly borrowed so low cost.

I love the bankers line that debt has to be patient

OverRide

kowtow wrote: »

Land prices around the world have been accelerating out of all proportion to economic value for about ten years.. I have to say that there is no single explanation except that when interest rates are negative and money can be had for nothing land at least has a little carry, and is a traditional hedge against inflation - it might just be a global bet that politicians are too vain to allow deflation to happen.. what is clear is that like everything else land will not retain such a high price relative to output indefinitely.

There are signs of growth vanishing in both the UK and in Ireland, so we'll have to see what happens next, but I would regard agricultural land at the headline prices of the past few years as a fairly high risk proposition.

Land near me a sizeable enough block non res made 17k an acre last month
That's in co Wexford valuing a 100 acres at €1.7 million
Shur where would you be going or how long would you be earning that in profit off 80 or 90 cows?

The million would keep you living for 30 years if you spent 30k pa

mf240

OverRide wrote: »

Land near me a sizeable enough block non res made 17k an acre last month
That's in co Wexford valuing a 100 acres at €1.7 million
Shur where would you be going or how long would you be earning that in profit off 80 or 90 cows?

The million would keep you living for 30 years if you spent 30k pa

You'd want a great job to be able to afford to milk cows these days:)

Waffletraktor

OverRide wrote: »

Land near me a sizeable enough block non res made 17k an acre last month
That's in co Wexford valuing a 100 acres at €1.7 million
Shur where would you be going or how long would you be earning that in profit off 80 or 90 cows?

The million would keep you living for 30 years if you spent 30k pa

Roll over money from the by-pass?

kowtow

OverRide wrote:

I love the bankers line that debt has to be patient

Its right up there with "where are the customer's yachts?"

newacc2015

kowtow wrote: »

Land prices around the world have been accelerating out of all proportion to economic value for about ten years.. I have to say that there is no single explanation except that when interest rates are negative and money can be had for nothing land at least has a little carry, and is a traditional hedge against inflation - it might just be a global bet that politicians are too vain to allow deflation to happen.. what is clear is that like everything else land will not retain such a high price relative to output indefinitely.

There are signs of growth vanishing in both the UK and in Ireland, so we'll have to see what happens next, but I would regard agricultural land at the headline prices of the past few years as a fairly high risk proposition.

IMO it is not the negative interest rates that is only causing agricultural land to soar. It is the fact that it is one of the few assets that is tax efficient anymore. In Ireland the Government has been closing all the obvious tax avoidance schemes to the extent if you ring up a tax advisor to suggest what to do. They have very little suggestions left

But agricultural land is a fantastic way pass on money to your children tax free. It is one of the few things tax advisor say is left for tax avoidance at the moment. It is commonly used in the UK too

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/02/britain-farmland-tax-haven-reform

Even in India farmers are used by the super rich to have a flow of tax free income.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-04/rich-landowners-reap-billions-from-india-tax-loophole

If you lease a rental property as BTL investor. You have to pay LPT, RTB and a marginal tax rate of up 52/53% on your income. Long term farm land is tax free. There are no massive fluctuations in price like regular property.

Keepgrowing

Curious to know have many here experience of farming through the '80's. I mean with money borrowed and paying massive interest.

We had high interest and high inflation, an absolute killer combination. Now I do recognise that not farms were heavily borrowed but those that were really struggled.

I'm a product of that time and what's happening now as regards price while difficult is a walk in the park in comparison. We managed to get through without selling any land despite savage pressure from our lender. In a kinda perverted way it made us stronger despite the fact it took us till the mid 90's to get going properly again.

Having been there I know that this downturn will pass but they are now going to come more frequently. When we get through this if we're not better prepared for the next trough it's been a wasted experience however if it prepares us better it will be a great life lesson.

I am including all stakeholders in the dairy industry from the relief milker to the strategists in our processors. There needs to be a see change in how we do business from product mix to flattening the supply curve. Despite what many believe winter milk is very doable on a grass based system with the right cow and hitting big growths mid summer in order to conserve bales to feed during housed period. I think we need to move away from the belief that maize, beet and expensive rations are necessary.

This flattening can't happen without the processors changing their product mix and thus paying the necessary premium for HIGH QUALITY winter milk.

whelan2

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Curious to know have many here experience of farming through the '80's. I mean with money borrowed and paying massive interest.

We had high interest and high inflation, an absolute killer combination. Now I do recognise that not farms were heavily borrowed but those that were really struggled.

I'm a product of that time and what's happening now as regards price while difficult is a walk in the park in comparison. We managed to get through without selling any land despite savage pressure from our lender. In a kinda perverted way it made us stronger despite the fact it took us till the mid 90's to get going properly again.

Having been there I know that this downturn will pass but they are now going to come more frequently. When we get through this if we're not better prepared for the next trough it's been a wasted experience however if it prepares us better it will be a great life lesson.

I am including all stakeholders in the dairy industry from the relief milker to the strategists in our processors. There needs to be a see change in how we do business from product mix to flattening the supply curve. Despite what many believe winter milk is very doable on a grass based system with the right cow and hitting big growths mid summer in order to conserve bales to feed during housed period. I think we need to move away from the belief that maize, beet and expensive rations are necessary.

This flattening can't happen without the processors changing their product mix and thus paying the necessary premium for HIGH QUALITY winter milk.

Alot of farmers didnt have difficulties in 2012/3 I learnt a hell of alot from that time , just back on my feet again last year when price went down . I reckon it makes you think twice about every decision as no one want to go back to hard times. Btw this year is nothing compared to 2012/3 , We have loads of grass and weather is ok

Buford T. Justice XIX

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Curious to know have many here experience of farming through the '80's. I mean with money borrowed and paying massive interest.

We had high interest and high inflation, an absolute killer combination. Now I do recognise that not farms were heavily borrowed but those that were really struggled.

I'm a product of that time and what's happening now as regards price while difficult is a walk in the park in comparison. We managed to get through without selling any land despite savage pressure from our lender. In a kinda perverted way it made us stronger despite the fact it took us till the mid 90's to get going properly again.

Having been there I know that this downturn will pass but they are now going to come more frequently. When we get through this if we're not better prepared for the next trough it's been a wasted experience however if it prepares us better it will be a great life lesson.

I am including all stakeholders in the dairy industry from the relief milker to the strategists in our processors. There needs to be a see change in how we do business from product mix to flattening the supply curve. Despite what many believe winter milk is very doable on a grass based system with the right cow and hitting big growths mid summer in order to conserve bales to feed during housed period. I think we need to move away from the belief that maize, beet and expensive rations are necessary.

This flattening can't happen without the processors changing their product mix and thus paying the necessary premium for HIGH QUALITY winter milk.

The high quality milk is there but the product mix isn't. Most big companies have a constant stream of new products coming every year and the old ones are sold/discontinued. The last 2 premium products here were Baileys and Cheesestrings and nothing else in the last 15 years.

My abiding memory of the 80s was getting paid in May 87 for our first milk supplies in 7 years and getting 80p/gallon. We were delighted, good price and cash flow through the year. Everybody else was crying as milk had come down from £1/gallon but we were thrilled.

It all depends on how you decide to look at it, I think.

freedominacup

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

My abiding memory of the 80s was getting paid in May 87 for our first milk supplies in 7 years and getting 80p/gallon. We were delighted, good price and cash flow through the year. Everybody else was crying as milk had come down from £1/gallon but we were.

This is why I smile every time I hear comments about new entrants under pressure.

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Curious to know have many here experience of farming through the '80's. I mean with money borrowed and paying massive interest.

We had high interest and high inflation, an absolute killer combination. Now I do recognise that not farms were heavily borrowed but those that were really struggled.

I'm a product of that time and what's happening now as regards price while difficult is a walk in the park in comparison. We managed to get through without selling any land despite savage pressure from our lender. In a kinda perverted way it made us stronger despite the fact it took us till the mid 90's to get going properly again.

Having been there I know that this downturn will pass but they are now going to come more frequently. When we get through this if we're not better prepared for the next trough it's been a wasted experience however if it prepares us better it will be a great life lesson.

I am including all stakeholders in the dairy industry from the relief milker to the strategists in our processors. There needs to be a see change in how we do business from product mix to flattening the supply curve. Despite what many believe winter milk is very doable on a grass based system with the right cow and hitting big growths mid summer in order to conserve bales to feed during housed period. I think we need to move away from the belief that maize, beet and expensive rations are necessary.

This flattening can't happen without the processors changing their product mix and thus paying the necessary premium for HIGH QUALITY winter milk.

I remember from a few years back my dad showed me milk dockets ,bank statements ,cattle receipts etc etc from late 70s and eighties ..some striking things .he got married in 1977 ,65 people at weeding receipts from church ,hotel etc amounted to 240 pounds !!!,went to lisdoonvara for honeymoon ,amount unaccounted for !!!
Built house for 28 k at an interest rate of 21.8% in 1978.6 unit parlour including shed 850 pounds .**** hit the fan in 1984 ,neighbour and his cows got brucellosis and our herd got depopulated .he farmed through 2009 and his opinion on that year was vastly different to severe tough times back then .take my mortgage at moment ,granted its a lot bigger than dads but my interest rate is 0.75% above ecb on tracker ,pratically free money

freedominacup

mahoney_j wrote: »

I remember from a few years back my dad showed me milk dockets ,bank statements ,cattle receipts etc etc from late 70s and eighties ..some striking things .he got married in 1977 ,65 people at weeding receipts from church ,hotel etc amounted to 240 pounds !!!,went to lisdoonvara for honeymoon ,amount unaccounted for !!!
Built house for 28 k at an interest rate of 21.8% in 1978.6 unit parlour including shed 850 pounds .**** hit the fan in 1984 ,neighbour and his cows got brucellosis and our herd got depopulated .he farmed through 2009 and his opinion on that year was vastly different to severe tough times back then .take my mortgage at moment ,granted its a lot bigger than dads but my interest rate is 0.75% above ecb on tracker ,pratically free money

The first time the oul boy and his brothers got 3 tonne s.barley crops they were paying around a half a tonne per acre in rent and a tonne of barley was worth around the same as a weeks wages for the guys they were employing. Money made those years.

kowtow

newacc2015 wrote: »

IMO it is not the negative interest rates that is only causing agricultural land to soar. It is the fact that it is one of the few assets that is tax efficient anymore. In Ireland the Government has been closing all the obvious tax avoidance schemes to the extent if you ring up a tax advisor to suggest what to do. They have very little suggestions left

But agricultural land is a fantastic way pass on money to your children tax free. It is one of the few things tax advisor say is left for tax avoidance at the moment. It is commonly used in the UK too

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/02/britain-farmland-tax-haven-reform

Even in India farmers are used by the super rich to have a flow of tax free income.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-04/rich-landowners-reap-billions-from-india-tax-loophole

If you lease a rental property as BTL investor. You have to pay LPT, RTB and a marginal tax rate of up 52/53% on your income. Long term farm land is tax free. There are no massive fluctuations in price like regular property.

I think inheritance tax is certainly a part of it, particularly in the UK and in Ireland, but it's interesting to reflect that exemptions for agricultural land have always been there, and have in fact become harder to access in the years when land prices have risen most sharply.

However, it's certainly part of the picture. Land has a carry, albeit a tiny one, in a world where yield is scarce.

Dawggone

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Well have no coupled production here, Dawggone, but it still exists in France.

And anytime French farmers get upset, they go and protest and dump Milk and slurry and burn trucks full of animals until the government relents and gives them more money. That's my perception of French Farm politics and that of a lot of farmers over here.

It's the pot calling the kettle black, tbh, Dawg.

Coupled production?? Explain.

That 14cpl that you've been offered for nothing was organised by the French German and Polish. Any handouts organised by rioting French farmers have been for all states.
For the record I didn't even qualify for the ski holiday hand out.

I've put up on the harvest thread my exact yields and today's prices...makes milk at 20cpl look like a lotto win.

Dawggone

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Curious to know have many here experience of farming through the '80's. I mean with money borrowed and paying massive interest.

We had high interest and high inflation, an absolute killer combination. Now I do recognise that not farms were heavily borrowed but those that were really struggled.

I'm a product of that time and what's happening now as regards price while difficult is a walk in the park in comparison. We managed to get through without selling any land despite savage pressure from our lender. In a kinda perverted way it made us stronger despite the fact it took us till the mid 90's to get going properly again.

Having been there I know that this downturn will pass but they are now going to come more frequently. When we get through this if we're not better prepared for the next trough it's been a wasted experience however if it prepares us better it will be a great life lesson.

I am including all stakeholders in the dairy industry from the relief milker to the strategists in our processors. There needs to be a see change in how we do business from product mix to flattening the supply curve. Despite what many believe winter milk is very doable on a grass based system with the right cow and hitting big growths mid summer in order to conserve bales to feed during housed period. I think we need to move away from the belief that maize, beet and expensive rations are necessary.

This flattening can't happen without the processors changing their product mix and thus paying the necessary premium for HIGH QUALITY winter milk.

I won't forget the 80s.


Milk was the *only* farming enterprise that made money post '84.

kevthegaff

Maybe us milk men are getting what we deserve:-)

blackdog1

Dawggone wrote:

Coupled production?? Explain.

Dawggone wrote:

That 14cpl that you've been offered for nothing was organised by the French German and Polish. Any handouts organised by rioting French farmers have been for all states. For the record I didn't even qualify for the ski holiday hand out.

Dawggone wrote:

I've put up on the harvest thread my exact yields and today's prices...makes milk at 20cpl look like a lotto win.

Think people should applaud the French farmers for putting so much pressure on Europe to look after its farmers. I've had a load of french students here over the years who were bankers,pharmacy sons and daughters who ended up in the credit agricol bank or food processing sector and everyone of them had to milk cows and get their hands dirty at ground level before progressing. They have fierce respect for the hard work farmers do because of it. It's a formula that should be copied everywhere. God help us if the French weren't in Europe because nobody else cares about farming.

OverRide

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Roll over money from the by-pass?

I'd imagine that's well gone at this stage
Decent Land has not made less than 12k an acre in the area in the last decade and longer that I'm aware of

Farmer Ed

freedominacup wrote: »

The first time the oul boy and his brothers got 3 tonne s.barley crops they were paying around a half a tonne per acre in rent and a tonne of barley was worth around the same as a weeks wages for the guys they were employing. Money made those years.

A 100 acre farm near here was purchased back in the day near here with the proceeds of the sale of 50 heifers. How much land would 50 heifers buy for you today? At the risk of repeating myself again. The price milk made in 1989 when inflation is taken in to account is the equivalent of 66cl in today's money. That's a very startling figure IMO

newacc2015

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Curious to know have many here experience of farming through the '80's. I mean with money borrowed and paying massive interest.

We had high interest and high inflation, an absolute killer combination. Now I do recognise that not farms were heavily borrowed but those that were really struggled.

Actually high inflation and high interest isnt a bad thing. High inflation erodes the real value of money ie what you can buy with your money. If inflation is 10% per annum, you debt will be technically be 10% less of a burden than last year. Likewise your savings will have lost 10% of their value

Ireland had interest rates of like 22% on prime banks loans at some stages in the 1970s/1980s which seems massive, until you realise inflation was close to 25% at the same time. Meaning banks will still losing money on these loans

High inflation is scary. But the situation we are in at the moment of deflation and no inflation is horrific. We have never known more about how economies work and modern economics is nearly an art form. Yet we are still clueless on how to get out this deflationary hole we are in. Without a fair amount of inflation, people will have massive borrowings which will not will reduce in burden in anyway for decades unlike the 1980s. This economic period we are in is something that has never been experienced ever. The yields on US bonds (basically the interest) is the lowest since the 1700s.

Keepgrowing

newacc2015 wrote: »

Actually high inflation and high interest isnt a bad thing. High inflation erodes the real value of money ie what you can buy with your money. If inflation is 10% per annum, you debt will be technically be 10% less of a burden than last year. Likewise your savings will have lost 10% of their value

Ireland had interest rates of like 22% on prime banks loans at some stages in the 1970s/1980s which seems massive, until you realise inflation was close to 25% at the same time. Meaning banks will still losing money on these loans

High inflation is scary. But the situation we are in at the moment of deflation and no inflation is horrific. We have never known more about how economies work and modern economics is nearly an art form. Yet we are still clueless on how to get out this deflationary hole we are in. Without a fair amount of inflation, people will have massive borrowings which will not will reduce in burden in anyway for decades unlike the 1980s. This economic period we are in is something that has never been experienced ever. The yields on US bonds (basically the interest) is the lowest since the 1700s.

Agreed but then massive deflation hit land values when people were forced to sell causing debt to linger.
Your comment about banks losing money sums it up as they were the ones piling on the pressure.

kowtow

Keepgrowing wrote:

Agreed but then massive deflation hit land values when people were forced to sell causing debt to linger. Your comment about banks losing money sums it up as they were the ones piling on the pressure.

Yup .. and although bond rates at historical low I would add there are very obvious parallels between present economic situation and the 1930's .. as well as some periods in 19th century.

In many ways land is a proxy for treasury bonds. Like a bond, you hold it only against the obligation of the state where it is located. It represents a claim upon the future prosperity of the country it belongs to.

The current bond bubble can partly be explained by the politics of QE... and like all bubbles must eventually burst. Whether and to what extent land prices will do the same must be a valid question.

blackdog1

Dairygold supplier

3.5 p 3.9 fat

25.318 c litre.

kevthegaff

blackdog1 wrote:

3.5 p 3.9 fat

blackdog1 wrote:

Dairygold supplier

blackdog1 wrote:

25.318 c litre.

Fixed?

blackdog1

Yeah 15%. But that 15% is over 18 months so works out about 10%.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Just seen the spot price in UK hit 30p/l yesterday, for a small quantity but still an eye watering figure:eek:

Also big increases in B quota prices and some companies getting rid of B quota altogether.

And with WMP being the biggest part of the GDT, it's rise in demand and price is looking good for milk prices for the tailend of this year and most of next years production.

mahoney_j

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Just seen the spot price in UK hit 30p/l yesterday, for a small quantity but still an eye watering figure:eek:

Also big increases in B quota prices and some companies getting rid of B quota altogether.

And with WMP being the biggest part of the GDT, it's rise in demand and price is looking good for milk prices for the tailend of this year and most of next years production.

Seen that positive signs at last which have been gathering pace for last 6 weeks but looking for price rise before next Feb/March ,don't think it'll happen ,all coops have been supporting price for a long time now so any market bounce now will take a few months before end producer sees it .also a mountain of intervention product to shift

stretch film

mahoney_j wrote: »

Seen that positive signs at last which have been gathering pace for last 6 weeks but looking for price rise before next Feb/March ,don't think it'll happen ,all coops have been supporting price for a long time now so any market bounce now will take a few months before end producer sees it .also a mountain of intervention product to shift

There is a notable exception in giil .
Any improvement in market returns needs to be paid out straight away .the company has rigidly stuck to protecting its margin and then paid out what's left.

That rigidity must be of benefit to the supplier when markets turn

freedominacup

stretch film wrote: »

There is a notable exception in giil .
Any improvement in market returns needs to be paid out straight away .the company has rigidly stuck to protecting its margin and then paid out what's left.

That rigidity must be of benefit to the supplier when markets turn

Yes but you haven't applied the appropriate corporate accountancy rules to your calculations stretch. I'm sure some cheap suit will turn up at the appropriate forum shortly to explain using GII logic how your figures are up your arse.

Buford T. Justice XIX

freedominacup wrote: »

Yes but you haven't applied the appropriate corporate accountancy rules to your calculations stretch. I'm sure some cheap suit will turn up at the appropriate forum shortly to explain using GII logic how your figures are up your arse.

He's a rich Nigerian Prince who will gladly pay you a hefty handling fee once you forward your account details to him so he can access the money his uncle is keeping him from drawing down!


:pac:

freedominacup

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

He's a rich Nigerian Prince who will gladly pay you a hefty handling fee once you forward your account details to him so he can access the money his uncle is keeping him from drawing down!


:pac:

I thought Jim's lad was in Kenya?

Buford T. Justice XIX

freedominacup wrote: »

I thought Jim's lad was in Kenya?

I thought he was in Nigeria!

It doesn't work as well with a Kenyan Prince, though:)

stretch film

No need for cynicism lads with such a "transparent " pricing structure exclusively in place .

kowtow

Buford T. Justice V wrote:

Just seen the spot price in UK hit 30p/l yesterday, for a small quantity but still an eye watering figure

Presumably 2p or more of that is down to recent currency moves...

Timmaay

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/current-greenfield-us-dairy-projects-could-add-200000t-of-milk-powder-to-market/

Hmmm. May keep the belt buckle well tightened for now. 2bh unless I can get costs comfortably under 20c/l I may start looking more seriously at the plan B.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Timmaay wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/current-greenfield-us-dairy-projects-could-add-200000t-of-milk-powder-to-market/

Hmmm. May keep the belt buckle well tightened for now. 2bh unless I can get costs comfortably under 20c/l I may start looking more seriously at the plan B.

Isn't a lot of that new processing being put up to comply with more stringent specs from buyers and replacing ageing processing plants?

Reading from that article, anyway, a lot of the current processing capacity will be taken out of operation so it will be significantly less than 200k tonnes?

Water John

All I see Buford, are plants in Macroom, Charleville, Wexford and soon Belview producing premium infant formula. It is premium because it is being made from milk produced by Irish farmers from grass, but they are the ones not getting any premium for it.
Our share, please.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Water John wrote: »

All I see Buford, are plants in Macroom, Charleville, Wexford and soon Belview producing premium infant formula. It is premium because it is being made from milk produced by Irish farmers from grass, but they are the ones not getting any premium for it.
Our share, please.

Listowel, not Charleville, produces the Beingmate milk powder for China but I more or less agree with your point.

PLCs buy the quality assured milk with a wide reputation as being a premium product for commodity prices and sell it at a premium price.

We do get some of it back but only as dividends on any shares we own so in Kerry about a third of the premium is returned to farms.

I doubt we are going to change the system they have in place for paying us but very few are willing to do anything to change the status quo. As it stands, we are little more than indentured servants to milk, beef and sheep processors. We feed on the scraps we are thrown and count ourselves lucky:(

Water John

Buford, others don't have shares even.
I thought I saw Charleville credited with the infant formula plant? Minor issue, all in the family.
Like producing free range eggs and not getting any premium for them.

Buford T. Justice XIX

https://twitter.com/Tenantfarmer1/status/759334556768010240

Interesting tweet. First time they have seen 3 changes in milk price in a month, thankfully upwards.

whelan2

Fingers crossed http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/futures-markets-point-to-a-strong-rise-in-todays-global-dairy-trade/

mf240

Water John wrote: »

All I see Buford, are plants in Macroom, Charleville, Wexford and soon Belview producing premium infant formula. It is premium because it is being made from milk produced by Irish farmers from grass, but they are the ones not getting any premium for it.
Our share, please.

I wonder will all these bucket reared children be more docile adults than suckled children!!

flutered

there is reports hereabouts of farmers getting a letter saying that the farmers fith 50-100 cowss are to get a premium not to supply milk during oct nov dec, sorry if it has been discussed before

Keepgrowing

https://twitter.com/ronh999dairy/status/760478146193924096