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Pay Small Company versus Multinational
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17-04-2013 8:50pm#1Hi,
I'm working as an engineer with 2.5 years job relevant experience. Ive just been told Im getting a pay rise to 30k. My issue is that I work in a small company, have a friend who works in a larger multinational in the same job. He started on what I'm told I will be getting and is now on 35k after 1.5 years experience.
Is this a wage gap I just have to accept as the difference between multinationals and small companies?
I'm beginning to feel that I'm being underpaid the last while and looking to the future I would prefer sort this now than later.
Should I go directly to my boss and lay out these facts and push for more.Or just wait and jump ship a few months down the line? I don't want to burn any bridges.
Thanks for any responses, even if there just speculation. And if you've been in similar situation or are an engineer let me know please...0
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Certainly if you think you are worth more than ask for a bigger pay rise, but have a plan if you dont get it. I wouldnt burn bridges and be mad at you boss, often smaller companies struggle a bit more especially in these economic times, so take it on the chin. So maybe consider if they cant give you more that you will start looking elsewhere. At the end of the day, dont ask and you will not recieve.
Also many small companies cant afford to match the multinationals for pay but tend to be better in the experience that workers gain so also consider this for career progression.0 -
From what you have told us you want to be earning more money but you don't want to burn your bridges in the process of getting this.
I don't think you are happy in you job. Finding out what your friend is earning is showing that your employer is not paying you what you think you are worth at the moment.
I have looked up www.taxcalu.eu to find out the differences in what you and your friend are now earning.
For €30,000 monthly €2057 weekly €475 and for €35,000 monthly €2306 weekly €532.
At this stage I would be looking for another job. I would not mention your lack of salary to your boss. You could go in asking them for more money due to x,y,z and be told to it is not happening meanwhile your boss knows then you are looking for a new job.
I would take 2 day holidays after arranging a few meetings with some recruitment agencies that deal with your area. I would also apply for a job with in the company your friend works for. When you get a new job I would ask your boss for a chat. I would just say to them that you have been offered a new position and given them a letter of Resignation.
I would just say thanks to your boss for the chance to work with them and from what you have learned to date.
Also before leaving get your work up to date as possible and chat to you boss about what is outstanding a week or 2 before you leave. This will give you a chance to pass work to someone else and answer any questions they may have on it.
One of my friends was a supervisor where I worked. A co worker left the company and left a right mess behind. My friend was ages trying to sort things out so when I left the company I had things in order before I left. It left a good impression behind. This is important as you never know where you will meet people again.0 -
Playing the "my mate gets paid more" or the "grass is greener" card will get you nowhere. Although your mate may have the same qualification as you that does not mean that you merit the same pay as him. Unless your boss is very inexperienced he can deflect those arguments very easily.
(1) His Job is different
He may have more responsibility
Hi Job may have a larger scope.
His role may have a larger return on investment
(2) He is different to you
He may be a better engineer than you.
He may be a better negotiator than you.
On the other hand it does not hurt to ask for a pay-rise.
But a manager/owner is more likely to invest in you if he sees a return on his investment, if you want more money then what more are you willing to give, think working smarter or at a higher level of achievement, using initiative and creativity. Go to your boss with a ROI based argument, one that he can use to justify the pay rise.
As to the original question, small companies pay both less and more than bigger companies, but they often have much more scope for creative payment and conditions. Hours are more flexible career opportunities are better, part ownership is sometimes an option for more senior staff, the environment is more relaxed. Big Brother, in the form of corporate process and procedures are nowhere near are burdensome. On the other hand, resources are more restricted and risk is higher in smaller companies and you do have to be a more flexible employee to succeed there.
Always consider the whole package, not just the $$$.0 -
What type if engineer are you? Are you a real engineer with a degree or a technician who thinks he is an engineer?0
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What type if engineer are you? Are you a real engineer with a degree or a technician who thinks he is an engineer?
While i dont agree with the Engineer title not being protected like it is in some other countries, which is a completely different debate, your post is not helpful to the OP.0 -
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Well I'm establishing his skill and job level yo be able to see what bracket would be expected. As per salary surveys0
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Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »Playing the "my mate gets paid more" or the "grass is greener" card will get you nowhere. Although your mate may have the same qualification as you that does not mean that you merit the same pay as him. Unless your boss is very inexperienced he can deflect those arguments very easily.
(1) His Job is different
He may have more responsibility
Hi Job may have a larger scope.
His role may have a larger return on investment
(2) He is different to you
He may be a better engineer than you.
He may be a better negotiator than you.
On the other hand it does not hurt to ask for a pay-rise.
But a manager/owner is more likely to invest in you if he sees a return on his investment, if you want more money then what more are you willing to give, think working smarter or at a higher level of achievement, using initiative and creativity. Go to your boss with a ROI based argument, one that he can use to justify the pay rise.
As to the original question, small companies pay both less and more than bigger companies, but they often have much more scope for creative payment and conditions. Hours are more flexible career opportunities are better, part ownership is sometimes an option for more senior staff, the environment is more relaxed. Big Brother, in the form of corporate process and procedures are nowhere near are burdensome. On the other hand, resources are more restricted and risk is higher in smaller companies and you do have to be a more flexible employee to succeed there.
Always consider the whole package, not just the $$$.
Ok, I'll try and address all your queries:
If I talk to him I'm going to try to avoid stating details about my friends situation. I'm a mechanical engineer and my friend has same qualifications as me. As you noted I work on a much larger variety of work. My friend and I often discuss his role and ours are very similar. My boss has always expressed a high level of satisfaction with my work but as such we don't have a formalized review process. A lot of my work is hard to quantify in actual return on investment but I'm going to try and have a collection of achievements to mind should I speak to him. It just seems that my starting wage was lower and increases lower than his.
I can't objectively say who's a better engineer but we are similar I would say. As regards my negotiating skills, I guess thats what I've come to board for advice on.0 -
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R and D is a funny industry.
I used to work for Motorola in a small R and D office, designing batteries chargers and circuits, mainly ATEX.
the starting wage wasn't great as they feel that its nearly like an apprentice in that it takes a while to get good work out of you. but as soon as you start getting patents on your designs and adding value ot projects the bump up your wage.
as your working for a small company there may be a low turnover as hence the funds available are simply not there to pay you more. (if your not sure of hwo the comany are doing, for asmall fee you could get your hands on the published financial returns)
If i was you i'd ask to have sit down with your boss, Tell him your looking for more moeny but also you want to make a work plan., so you have goals to work towards and targets, this will eb good fo ryo as it'll help you to plan your carrer progression.0 -
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From what you have told us you want to be earning more money but you don't want to burn your bridges in the process of getting this.
I don't think you are happy in you job. Finding out what your friend is earning is showing that your employer is not paying you what you think you are worth at the moment.
I have looked up www.taxcalu.eu to find out the differences in what you and your friend are now earning.
For €30,000 monthly €2057 weekly €475 and for €35,000 monthly €2306 weekly €532.
At this stage I would be looking for another job. I would not mention your lack of salary to your boss. You could go in asking them for more money due to x,y,z and be told to it is not happening meanwhile your boss knows then you are looking for a new job.
I would take 2 day holidays after arranging a few meetings with some recruitment agencies that deal with your area. I would also apply for a job with in the company your friend works for. When you get a new job I would ask your boss for a chat. I would just say to them that you have been offered a new position and given them a letter of Resignation.
I would just say thanks to your boss for the chance to work with them and from what you have learned to date.
Also before leaving get your work up to date as possible and chat to you boss about what is outstanding a week or 2 before you leave. This will give you a chance to pass work to someone else and answer any questions they may have on it.
One of my friends was a supervisor where I worked. A co worker left the company and left a right mess behind. My friend was ages trying to sort things out so when I left the company I had things in order before I left. It left a good impression behind. This is important as you never know where you will meet people again.
Sorry, I feel compelled to write as I think bits in bold are terrible advice. The OP has worked at a small firm for a couple of years – his/her mate gets paid more at a multinational. The OP is going to get a pay rise to €30k, which will still be below the friend.
At no stage does the OP mention they are unhappy in their job. Unhappy with their pay, yes. The OP is 2.5 years into a career and is getting a pay hike. It’s not to the level of peers, but perhaps he is getting better experience and responsibility where he is? While everyone wants to get paid more, you can’t just take a role elsewhere and not even give your manager a chance to even counter any offer or advise as to why it might be in the interests of the OP to stay on. Moreso considering it’s a small firm who could suffer should someone leave for a few grand a year elsewhere. Otherwise, you are burning bridges.
I’d be appalled if anyone acted in the selfish manner advised and suggest the OP approach the boss for clarification and to discuss future financial rewards and incentives.0 -
While everyone wants to get paid more, you can’t just take a role elsewhere and not even give your manager a chance to even counter any offer or advise as to why it might be in the interests of the OP to stay on. Moreso considering it’s a small firm who could suffer should someone leave for a few grand a year elsewhere. Otherwise, you are burning bridges.
Of course you can! Especially once you've been there 2.5 years, not 2.5 months.
If an employer needs to lay you off, they will, and most probably not lose a moment's sleep over it.
IMHO as soon as you tell your manager you believe you deserve more money, there are two ways it can go. One is that you get it - but are left wondering why you had to ask - if they company really valued you, they would have been offering your fair pay for your knowledge/skills.
The other option is that you don't get it. So you have to leave - because if you don't, your manager will know that you believe you are underpaid, and expect you to be leaving any minute.0 -
Mrs OBumble wrote: »Of course you can! Especially once you've been there 2.5 years, not 2.5 months.
If an employer needs to lay you off, they will, and most probably not lose a moment's sleep over it.
IMHO as soon as you tell your manager you believe you deserve more money, there are two ways it can go. One is that you get it - but are left wondering why you had to ask - if they company really valued you, they would have been offering your fair pay for your knowledge/skills.
The other option is that you don't get it. So you have to leave - because if you don't, your manager will know that you believe you are underpaid, and expect you to be leaving any minute.
I have to disagree with the above a little.
Managers are not employed to get the best deal for their employees, they are employed to get the best deal for the company, while taking into account what they have to do to have a stable team at the right level of expertise.
The wages that an employee is on depends on several factors,including market conditions at the time that they were hired, company pay rates, performance, what the employee was willing to work for & external forces such as how the company is performing etc. It can also be hard to correct any differences within some companies pay structures without an actual promotion or job description change event.
Pay does not always = What the manager thinks of an employee.
This works both ways :-) some folks are paid more than a manager thinks they are worth :-)0 -
Mrs OBumble wrote: »Of course you can! Especially once you've been there 2.5 years, not 2.5 months.
If an employer needs to lay you off, they will, and most probably not lose a moment's sleep over it.
IMHO as soon as you tell your manager you believe you deserve more money, there are two ways it can go. One is that you get it - but are left wondering why you had to ask - if they company really valued you, they would have been offering your fair pay for your knowledge/skills.
The other option is that you don't get it. So you have to leave - because if you don't, your manager will know that you believe you are underpaid, and expect you to be leaving any minute.
Fair pay for knowledge/skills, this makes me laugh. Not everything is on the same level playing field out there. Many people purposely take jobs with smaller companies with lower wages as they know they may have better opportunities to progress and get more responsibility than they would in a large organisation. These smaller organisation may not have the resources to pay as much but it gives the employee a change to make a real change in the company and this in turn often leads to more money down the line.0 -
I think that's unfair. I've worked for a large multinational who've gone through a round of redundancies, our department was hit twice as hard as the average. While the head guys sure just scratched off a few numbers, I know the head of our department found the whole experience very upsetting, having to tell people to their face that they were gone, just so the company can cut costs. In some ways it's easier to fire someone for actually being crap at their job. Letting competent people go because you need their paycheque comes across as heartless.Mrs OBumble wrote: »If an employer needs to lay you off, they will, and most probably not lose a moment's sleep over it.
As above, I do disagree with this, at least to a certain extent. Yes if you're a good employee you will be rewarded with good feedback and a certain level of bonuses and advancement. Company depending though.if they company really valued you, they would have been offering your fair pay for your knowledge/skills.
He's been told he's getting a payrise. So the company feel he's worth investing more in. From their point of view, he is being rewarded. At the same time, they're not going to throw money at him. Few companies will look at the industry and benchmark for every position. In small places especially, if an employee seems happy, then the company will assume they're not screaming for a pay rise, but will continue to throw increments at them every now and again to make sure they stay happy.
Some management have a policy of paying employees as little as they can until the employee turns around and threatens to leave, at which point they open their wallet. Especially with the economy as it is, nobody can expect an employer to be throwing cash at their employees to keep them happy. The employer will pay you and increment your pay as little as they think they can get away with.0 -
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your help so far. This thread got a lot more active when I wasn’t paying attention. Sorry about that, I missed a lot of good advice. I’ve read all your comments and overall it’s a very balanced view. I do like the greater responsibility and freedom that comes from a small company. I do however think that they are “paying me what they think they can” sort of thing.
I talked to my boss but it’s not all in his hands. I’m still waiting to hear back (Decision is not his really, so there’s a delay). Contract runs out this week though and he does want to get me signed up on the proposed contract as it stands. I’m a bit wary of this. I don’t believe he’s trying to deceive me in any way but… Perhaps I have more bargaining power if I’m out of contract. I'm basically going to avoid him for the day and be - DUN DUN DUHHH "OUT OF CONTRACT!". My current plan is to get whatever increase I can out of him. I know it won’t be much. Get as much experience wise over the next while out of my job while searching for another. I’d like to finish some of my bigger objectives before I leave but then perhaps I’m encouraging his behaviour then. I’ve spoken to two co-workers and my pay expectations aren’t unreasonable at all. I also contact some recruiters for additional info.
When I spoke to him he kept playing the experience card after I had given enough evidence on the pay scale side of things… The conversation was awkward. I did mention that I’d contacted recruiters regarding jobs they had approached me with on linked in. I think this should have been motivation for him that I am aware of the current market opportunities.
Any thoughts?0
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