NBA Playoffs 2012/13

kmart6

buyer95 wrote: »

I really felt for him when he went down with that ACL injury.

Achilles

The Phantom Jipper

buyer95 wrote: »

In a word yes, you do what you have to do for your team to win, you adapt your game to the situation your in, which is what Kobe did. Im not bashing Stockton he was an unbelievable player. Kobe simply could not have 5 championships if he wasnt a team player. As M.J himself said
" There are plenty of teams in every sport that have great players and
never win titles. Most of the time, those players aren't willing to
sacrifice for the greater good of the team. The funny thing is, in
the end, their unwillingness to sacrifice only makes individual
goals more difficult to achieve. One thing I believe to the fullest
is that if you think and achieve as a team, the individual accolades
will take care of themselves. Talent wins games, but teamwork and
intelligence win championships.”
Kobe is motivated by winning, not individual stats, those stats are a bi-product of his refusal to ever give up.But he needed his teamates to win, just look how many times Fisher made game winning shots for the lakers when Kobe was at the helm of the team. Listen I've often critised him on this website, just look back to the regular season to see that. Its just your initiall comment really rankled with me. But I saw how he willed this team into the playoffs, often even refusing to sit during games, his passion was awe inspiring. He is a living legend, and I really felt for him when he went down with that ACL injury, it just seemed so unjust, after all he had done for the team to get them into the playoffs.

Going somewhat down the road of hagiography there I think.

kmart6

Carcharodon wrote: »

You can't base everything on stats.
As for Stockton, do you think players like this would change the legacy of how they played the game all for a ring ?

Yes, they would swap it all in heartbeat! These guys play to win Championships, that's what it's all about! Yeah some of their career stats are great but no doubt Stockton would swap a couple of thousand of his assists for a ring!

Why play if your not in it to win a ring? Nobody wants to finish second, it just means, to borrow an overused cliche, you are the first loser!

Nuri Sahin

One or two here on ISH I see

Carcharodon

Felexicon wrote: »

But you're not putting forward examples of these major flaws.

No body here has ever mentioned him as a role model so not sure where that's coming from.

Which players do you think should be held in higher standing than Kobe?

Poor shot selection and taking too many shots, he doesn't allow the team to get into rhythm. He doesn't show trust in teammates and constantly berates their mistakes rather than encouraging them.
He is more concerned with personal stats and having the limelight rather than involving and helping his teammates.
He publicly mocked Kwame Brown and others about their ability, he will never realise not everyone can be as talented as him.
Phil Jackson refer to him as uncoachable, I think it might of been the same book where he spoke of Kobe being on the phone during team talks.
He is an overrated defensive player, I think most people will admit that one.

Well the Nike add those seem to portray him as a demigod, I know it's marketing and branding but they forgot to mention how he paid his way out of a rape case.

I think LeBron would be a good example of how an extremely talented player puts his team before his own personal glory.

The Phantom Jipper

Carcharodon wrote: »

Poor shot selection and taking too many shots, he doesn't allow the team to get into rhythm. He doesn't show trust in teammates and constantly berates their mistakes rather than encouraging them.
He is more concerned with personal stats and having the limelight rather than involving and helping his teammates.
He publicly mocked Kwame Brown and others about their ability, he will never realise not everyone can be as talented as him.
Phil Jackson refer to him as uncoachable, I think it might of been the same book where he spoke of Kobe being on the phone during team talks.
He is an overrated defensive player, I think most people will admit that one.

Well the Nike add those seem to portray him as a demigod, I know it's marketing and branding but they forgot to mention how he paid his way out of a rape case.

I think LeBron would be a good example of how an extremely talented player puts his team before his own personal glory.

And he tried to belittle Smush Parker.

Carcharodon

kmart6 wrote: »

Yes, they would swap it all in heartbeat! These guys play to win Championships, that's what it's all about! Yeah some of their career stats are great but no doubt Stockton would swap a couple of thousand of his assists for a ring!

Why play if your not in it to win a ring? Nobody wants to finish second, it just means, to borrow an overused cliche, you are the first loser!

That's debatable, I remember Barkley saying he loved the career he had and even though he never won a ring he wouldn't change his career, he will always be remembered as a great player and better than most that won rings.
Most knowledgeable fans will understand that a ring will not define their careers no matter how much the media tries to.

BQQ

kmart6 wrote: »

Yes, they would swap it all in heartbeat! These guys play to win Championships, that's what it's all about! Yeah some of their career stats are great but no doubt Stockton would swap a couple of thousand of his assists for a ring!

Why play if your not in it to win a ring? Nobody wants to finish second, it just means, to borrow an overused cliche, you are the first loser!

You really think Stockton would swap his career for DJ Mbenga's?

leggo

The current conversation here is a fair reflection on how competitive this game has been.

Nuri Sahin

Clean sweep for the home sides in Game 1.

OKC absolutely tore the Rockets apart in their game just there.

Dublin Red Devil

My Pacers will take this series in 5. We need consistency from Hilbert and our star man George to continue putting up these numbers.
On to the Next. Bring on The Knicks

Felexicon

Carcharodon wrote: »

Poor shot selection and taking too many shots, he doesn't allow the team to get into rhythm. He doesn't show trust in teammates and constantly berates their mistakes rather than encouraging them.
He is more concerned with personal stats and having the limelight rather than involving and helping his teammates.
He publicly mocked Kwame Brown and others about their ability, he will never realise not everyone can be as talented as him.
Phil Jackson refer to him as uncoachable, I think it might of been the same book where he spoke of Kobe being on the phone during team talks.
He is an overrated defensive player, I think most people will admit that one.

Well the Nike add those seem to portray him as a demigod, I know it's marketing and branding but they forgot to mention how he paid his way out of a rape case.

I think LeBron would be a good example of how an extremely talented player puts his team before his own personal glory.

Carcharodon

Felexicon wrote: »

That's a great response... have you even watched LeBron play this season, he has matured into an extremely unselfish player, is your little picture supposed to mean that you think LeBron doesn't involve other players.

Felexicon

Carcharodon wrote: »

That's a great response... have you even watched LeBron play this season, he has matured into an extremely unselfish player, is your little picture supposed to mean that you think LeBron doesn't involve other players.

Just ask his team mates from Cleveland how much he cared about them.
He made one of the most selfish moves in NBA history by signing with Miami.
Also it's easy to be unselfish when you're passing to Dwyane Wade, Ray Allen and Chris Bosh

Dublin Red Devil

D'Antoni has to go. Disrespecting Kobe is the last straw. There is only one man for that Lakers job and that's Phill Jackson

ButtersSuki

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

D'Antoni has to go. Disrespecting Kobe is the last straw. There is only one man for that Lakers job and that's Phill Jackson

What did he say?

Felexicon

[/QUOTE]

ButtersSuki wrote: »

What did he say?

http://nba.si.com/2013/04/21/kobe-bryant-twitter-mike-dantoni-lakers-spurs-playoffs/

Riding just a “B” or “B-” overall performance, the Spurs easily dispatched the Lakers in Game 1 of their Western Conference playoff series, leaving Kobe Bryant, out with a season-ending Achilles injury, to fume over his iPhone back in California.

“Nothing worse [than] watching your brothers struggle and [you] can’t do crap about it,” Bryant tweeted. “It’s horrible not being able to at least be there with them.”
Bryant’s tweets — which provided thoughts and analysis on L.A.’s play on both sides of the ball — poured forth as San Antonio put together a convincing, if somewhat ugly, 91-79 home victory.
In a televised postgame press conference, Lakers coach Mike D’Antoni tried to brush off Bryant’s comments.
“It’s great to have that commentary,” D’Antoni said, rolling his eyes. “He’s a fan right now. He’s a fan. You guys put a little bit more importance on that kind of fan. He’s a fan, he gets excited, I’m sure he wants to be part of it.”
Bryant immediately responded to those comments, which some interpreted as a slight: “A fan?? lol”. He later added: “Nervous response. I’m sure he didn’t meant it that way. No big deal.

Dublin Red Devil

ButtersSuki wrote: »

What did he say?

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/4/22/4251782/kobe-bryant-mike-dantoni-phil-jackson-lakers-twitter-nba-playoffs

PizzamanIRL

Kobe apparently made no big deal about it, and rightly so.

I think he meant he's a fan as in he's like everyone else out there at home watching it on TV commenting about the game. No disrespect intended I think.

He probably didn't want to be asked a question about Kobe's tweets right after losing Game 1.

Dublin Red Devil

I'm watch ESPN First Take live right now an they just announced that J.R Smith is 6th man of the Year

Felexicon

I LOLed

ButtersSuki

Felexicon wrote: »

http://nba.si.com/2013/04/21/kobe-bryant-twitter-mike-dantoni-lakers-spurs-playoffs/[/QUOTE]

No huge issue for me with what he (D'Antoni) said, but the rolling of the eyes would concern me. For a coach who's as long in the game as D'Antoni is, he really needs to improve his media performances. He's awfully bad at hiding his emotions.

Felexicon

ButtersSuki wrote: »

http://nba.si.com/2013/04/21/kobe-bryant-twitter-mike-dantoni-lakers-spurs-playoffs/

No huge issue for me with what he (D'Antoni) said, but the rolling of the eyes would concern me. For a coach who's as long in the game as D'Antoni is, he really needs to improve his media performances. He's awfully bad at hiding his emotions.

Might have been rolling his eyes at the line of questioning

padraig_f

Pretty sure there's a tongue-in-cheek element to the comments between D'Antoni and Kobe. Someone asked D'Antoni earlier about Kobe ringing up to give advice to the team, and D'Antoni said something like 'I better remember to turn my phone off'.

They go back a long way, I read that Kobe took his original number 8 jersey because that was the number D'Antoni wore in Italy.

padraig_f

On Kobe, I'm a fan, even though I'm a fan of team-basketball. I think it's over-simplifying it to say that a high-assist guy is a good-guy, and a scorer is a selfish guy. They're both trying to do the same thing, win basketball games.

If you pass to a guy who has less chance of scoring than you do, then it's a bad basketball play. And similarly, if you have a better chance of scoring than your team-mates, then you're correct to shoot. That's sometimes a judgment call, and you can call Kobe selfish, but it's hard to argue with his results, in terms of winning games and championships.

Bill Simmons wrote a brilliant column a few months back on Kobe: The Kobe Question.

In it he talks to three of the greatest exponents of team-basketball about Kobe (Russell, Magic and Bill Walton), check it out to see their thoughts on him.

But I think Walton got to the heart of things:

Bill Simmons wrote:

Three years ago, I drove down to San Diego to interview Bill Walton for my NBA book and we ended up arguing (in a good-natured way) about Kobe right after he won the 2009 title. My book argued that success hinged on "The Secret" of basketball — that it wasn't actually about talent, but how you sacrificed your game and meshed with teammates. Walton maintained it was more like a "choice," saying it was every player's responsibility to find his own destiny. And that path was going to be different for every player. Walton believed that I didn't like watching Kobe that much because he didn't play basketball the way I liked to see basketball played. That was my choice, just like it was Kobe's choice to play that way.

Carcharodon

Felexicon wrote: »

Just ask his team mates from Cleveland how much he cared about them.
He made one of the most selfish moves in NBA history by signing with Miami.
Also it's easy to be unselfish when you're passing to Dwyane Wade, Ray Allen and Chris Bosh

I am not a fan of the way he left Cleaveland and leaving them in the first place also is a bit of a stain on him but do you think Kobe would of acted differently, if he wasn't at the Lakers he would of jumped ship of a struggling organisation at the first chance.
Just cos he has great players around him doesn't make it less true. He has always generally been an unselfish player considering his talent, he could easily put up bigger scoring numbers if he wanted to in my opinion.

Paully D

Massive game for the Bulls in terms of the series tonight. Unfortunately I won't get to watch the game but I'm hoping to wake up to see the series tied!

padraig_f

Paully D wrote: »

Massive game for the Bulls in terms of the series tonight. Unfortunately I won't get to watch the game but I'm hoping to wake up to see the series tied!

They really crapped the bed the other night, but I was surprised at the Nets, they were better than I thought. Lopez and Williams were dynamite, Lopez was getting to the rim at will, Williams was doing whatever he wanted, going to the rim, hitting outside shots, facilitating other players. Never been a big Joe Johnson fan in terms of leading a team, but as your third-best player he's pretty good.

If they play as well again, the Bulls probably can't live with them. But I'm expecting a bit of a regression...as well as their main 3, they got some unexpected good play from Gerald Wallace, Andray Blatche & CJ Watson. Not sure that's gonna be so repeatable.

The Bulls won't play as badly again. Hinrich and Deng need to step up after playing a really bad game 1. I'm not sure why Nazr didn't play more in the first game, Taj isn't big enough to guard Lopez. You need to see something in your game 1 to game 2 adjustments, if tonight is a repeat of game 1, it'll be hard to see the Bulls recovering.

Dublin Red Devil

Game about to start. Must win for Chicago.

Dublin Red Devil

Lopez throws it down. Great Dunk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzo3SYfKhPI