No to council house..... Reason: No room for trampoline

Ray Palmer

conorhal wrote: »

There are three qualifiers for rent allowance, an income threshold low enough, you to have been renting for 6 months prior to applying and thirdly you have to apply to your local council to place yourself on the housing list. (I think your thinking of rent tax relief).

No I wasn't thinking or rent tax relief. You do no need to be on the housing list to get rent allowance. Read below link

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/rent_supplement.html

conorhal wrote: »

Yes, rent allowance thresholds were cut in the budget. If you've never heard the term landoards dole, stick it into google, I'm sure you'll find thousands of references.).

One reference to a boards's thread for LL dole after a google search. The fact rent didn't drop in Dublin on the change proves that it is not keeping the market artificially high. Because if it did rent would have dropped and not go up. All it did was force people on RA to move. Lots of people who used to claim it was keeping rents high admitted that they were wrong after the fact as reality showed them wrong. It did show in a very few small areas to reflect it was keeping rents higher but they were so few and far between it pretty much destroyed the theory.

I know people on RA for over 16 years also proving you don't need to be on the housing list.

conorhal wrote: »

Seriously, I assume you're having a laugh there. As I said, I have no problem with a set list of criteria that would allow people to refuse a certian property, but a trampoline, be it the sole sentimental inherritance of a widow or not, isn't one of them. Just accept the obvious fact that the individual in the case cited simply didn't want the house because they don't want to move from where they are currently renting with RAS. If you have no legitimate reason to refuse housing then your RAS should be cut.

How do you know what the circumstance is of the individual or the reasoning? I'll accept she didn't want the place because of the size of the garden. The reasoning behind that is anybody's GUESS. There is a reason why you can't use blanket policies on people.

slarkin123

What a ridiculous reason for turning down a house. They should be told to either take the house or have their rent supplement/allowance stopped. I'm sure there's a family after them on the list who would be delighted with an offer.

Push Pop

dark crystal wrote: »

Social housing is a wonderful thing for people who just can't afford mortgages or high private rents. Most don't see it as a stop-gap, but as a permanent home to raise their families.

Why would you not have any time for those people?

Do you know about Ireland's fiscal spending deficit and its current and future effects? If you're interested have a google of Ireland's social welfare spending and try establish a link to this story.

dark crystal

Push Pop wrote: »

Do you know about Ireland's fiscal spending deficit and its current and future effects? If you're interested have a google of Ireland's social welfare spending and try establish a link to this story.

It's not people in social housing who brought about the collapse of the Irish economy. What would you do with people who can't afford a mortgage or private rent?

Ray Palmer

dark crystal wrote: »

It's not people in social housing who brought about the collapse of the Irish economy. What would you do with people who can't afford a mortgage or private rent?

They aren't blameless either as everybody was involved. How many people in social housing are/were tradesmen?

How many people in social housing deny the rights of the child's parents by not allowing them see the children and don't claim support from the parent either. How many people have social housing by getting pregnant and not having means?

Many single parents know who the other parent is yet let the state pay for the child rather than rightfully claim the maintenance from the parent. That should not be a choice. This contributed to the costs on the Irish Economy.

It wasn't all the banks fault and many people are responsible for it and their own circumstances.

There certainly are people who have had kids to get social housing.

the_syco

joe316 wrote: »

I suppose we can be grateful that their kids werent into sailing.

I have a sinking feeling that their ship has sailed.

schnitzelEater wrote: »

This is ridiculous. Stick them at the bottom the of the list. That'd learn them.

This may be what they want; so they continue to get rent allowance.

How about we put them at the top of the list, and offer them two other places within a month, and cut them off if they don't take them. If this was the process, they wouldn't be refusing on small things.

Oh, and next place should be a flat on the 15th floor. Lots of exercise :P

Medusa22 wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't have so many kids, especially if I couldn't afford to look after them but that is for another thread.

It really depends on your mindset. Some people equal more kids with an automatic right to a bigger house :eek:

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm the nice one, the other one would cut them off RA and let them fend for themselves for a while. Might make them see how lucky they really are.

I think we should build schools next to the large ghost estates in the middle of nowhere. If you're not working, nor haven't worked for more than 4 months concurrently in the last 3 years, on the 3rd refusal, you get moved into the NAMA owned ghost estate.

goose2005 wrote: »

introduce property laws to protect tenants

How about a few laws to protect the landlords as well. Namely ones to kick people out if they don't pay their full rent for 2 months in a row.

anncoates

dark crystal wrote: »

Why would you not have any time for those people?

Severe cognitive inertia?

crockholm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

They aren't blameless either as everybody was involved. How many people in social housing are/were tradesmen?

How many people in social housing deny the rights of the child's parents by not allowing them see the children and don't claim support from the parent either. How many people have social housing by getting pregnant and not having means?

Many single parents know who the other parent is yet let the state pay for the child rather than rightfully claim the maintenance from the parent. That should not be a choice. This contributed to the costs on the Irish Economy.

It wasn't all the banks fault and many people are responsible for it and their own circumstances.

There certainly are people who have had kids to get social housing.

Tradesmen? I agree with much of the sentiment of your piece,but, tradesmen???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPKb9z4l7eM

WayneMolloy

swazzie wrote: »

Just a thought that there may be more to this story. What if one of the kids in the family needed the trampoline for health reasons ie part of the therapy for cystic fibrosis is jumping on a trampoline every day to break the mucus up in the chest.

They can invest in a skipping rope.

The sense of entitlement that emulates from sections of our populace is utterly baffling. Turning down a free gaff ffs. A few hours living in a tent would change their mind pretty sharpish.

Ray Palmer

crockholm wrote: »

Tradesmen? I agree with much of the sentiment of your piece,but, tradesmen???

You do realise the cost of labour pushed up the prices of houses. The labour was from tradesmen who upped their prices quite a lot. Higher house prices meant bigger mortgages etc...

To get a kitchen put in now is about 25% of what it used to be and they actually turn up now.

A lot of them or selective on their tax returns hence not working enough or paid enough so qualified for social housing.

dark crystal

Ray Palmer wrote: »

They aren't blameless either as everybody was involved. How many people in social housing are/were tradesmen?

I don't know - how many

How many people in social housing deny the rights of the child's parents by not allowing them see the children and don't claim support from the parent either.

How many people in private or rented accommodation do this also?

How many people have social housing by getting pregnant and not having means?

Some. Many already have families and wait for years to be offered a home.

Many single parents know who the other parent is yet let the state pay for the child rather than rightfully claim the maintenance from the parent. That should not be a choice. This contributed to the costs on the Irish Economy.

Then the Irish government need to operate a scheme like CSA in the UK. That would take care of that in many instances.

It wasn't all the banks fault and many people are responsible for it and their own circumstances.

There certainly are people who have had kids to get social housing.

It was mainly banks, greedy property developers and gamblers who got us in to this mess, but hey, let's blame the single parents anyway!

No system is perfect, but I'd be open to suggestions for an alternative to social housing for those unable to afford mortgages or private rents, because the reality is, not everyone can.

Jester144

My friend was a bit disillusioned when she went to see a potential council house because there were 2 ponies in the back garden. When her car was stolen while she was in viewing the property, she decided to give it a miss.

wolfpawnat

I lived in a council house for 14 years as a child. It was a nice enough place, then my mother moved to Dingle and wanted one there, and got in a huff she didn't get one with a bigger garden :rolleyes:

I would nearly KILL for a house now. Shíte low quality apartment where you can hear the neighbours fart compared to a proper HOUSE with maybe three rooms and proper walls! I would jump at it (no trampoline pun intended)

Bottom of the list, there are many who would do a hell of a lot for such a thing, as others have said, you are entitled to an apartment or house, not a grand manor with a private park attached.

If it was due to it being a tough area or not near schools/transport/etc then you could not argue with a young family, but because of a trampoline, seriously???

Vicar in a tutu

EuskalHerria wrote: »

What do you suggest they do with the trampoline then?

Shove it up their holes

Mick ah

I read the first page, no time for the rest.

Point I want to make is, if you want the luxury of enough space for a trampoline, then fúcking pay for it yourself. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there, who actually pay for the roof above their heads, who'd love space for a trampoline.

Guy:Incognito

You're all a bunch of begrudgers. I'm just glad theres still good people in the world like ms neville that will fight for the little man. The council have their ****e If they think ill accept a house that doesnt have a garden big enough for my kids to keep up with their hobby. I wont have them robbed of the chance to become the next ben ainsley..........

crockholm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You do realise the cost of labour pushed up the prices of houses. The labour was from tradesmen who upped their prices quite a lot. Higher house prices meant bigger mortgages etc...

To get a kitchen put in now is about 25% of what it used to be and they actually turn up now.

A lot of them or selective on their tax returns hence not working enough or paid enough so qualified for social housing.

Being one,I'm well aware.

After 2005 wages steadily began to drop as there was,as you know, a huge flux of workers from Europe, my wages went down,all the lads I knew, their wages went down too, yet house prices went up and up!




Wasn't my breadhooks in the cookie jar;) .


If you can empathise with us a little too, very,very few of us get to retire at 65. Most men are physically broken by their mid 50s, but thats the road we chose,so please don't begrudge us making hay while the sun shines:)

Gatling

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You're all a bunch of begrudgers. I'm just glad theres still good people in the world like ms neville that will fight for the little man. The council have their ****e If they think ill accept a house that doesnt have a garden big enough for my kids to keep up with their hobby. I wont have them robbed of the chance to become the next ben ainsley..........

Comedian's

Inventive User Name

trampoline-exercises.jpg

Everybody's happy.

melekalikimaka

they should sell their kids, let alone the trampoline... disgrace

Madam_X

As well as the myth that all people who live in local authority housing don't work, the other one is the homes are "free". Nope, they pay rent.

wandatowell wrote: »

To those who need it council housing should be a privilage not an entitlement.

But if they need it is it a privilege? Bang of "Let them eat cake" tbh.

the_syco

crockholm wrote: »

After 2005 wages steadily began to drop as there was,as you know, a huge flux of workers from Europe, my wages went down,all the lads I knew, their wages went down too, yet house prices went up and up!

The mad thing was, the influx were drawn by your high wages.

Madam_X wrote: »

wandatowell wrote: »

To those who need it council housing should be a privilage not an entitlement.

But if they need it is it a privilege? Bang of "Let them eat cake" tbh.

Well, that's what they just said. If they need it, it's a privilege.

Out of interest, what's the average percentage of the rent that they have to pay?

spank_inferno

the_syco wrote: »

Out of interest, what's the average percentage of the rent that they have to pay?

If its a married family, the rent can be more or less full market value.

If its a single parent / no income family the rent can be quite low.

So it varies based on circumstance.

(my own example was from 1999, my parents who were unemployed at the time paid £20 p/w for a 3 bed semi.
Our neighbour, a working single mum paid a token £2...... this was in Wicklow)

NuckingFacker

If you study, slog, get promotions and save hard, maybe you can get a mortgage on an overpriced house or apartment which you can then slog to pay for, for the rest of your life.

If you just don't bother at all, here you go, have a house, pay a tiny rent, out of your dole. Need a bed? Here you go. Need a fridge? here you go. Need room for your trampoline? Here you go.

This is one very, very fecked up world. I do not entirely get it.

wolfpawnat

the_syco wrote: »

The mad thing was, the influx were drawn by your high wages.


Well, that's what they just said. If they need it, it's a privilege.

Out of interest, what's the average percentage of the rent that they have to pay?

A roof over your head is a basic human right, not a privilege.

Rents are based completely on income, and part of the country the housing is in.

This is the information for Dublin
http://www.dublincity.ie/Housing/Pages/RentAssessment.aspx

Scruffles

melekalikimaka wrote: »

they should sell their kids, let alone the trampoline... disgrace

agreed,they woud get more money for the nippers than some chad valley tramp-o-leen, that are made very cheeply and are ten a penny now days-then again coud say the same thing about kids.

As well as the myth that all people who live in local authority housing don't work, the other one is the homes are "free". Nope, they pay rent.

ignorants just love living in ignorant land,they will selectively forget the truth as they want to have something to project their anger problems onto other than themselves.

dark crystal

Madam_X wrote: »

As well as the myth that all people who live in local authority housing don't work, the other one is the homes are "free". Nope, they pay rent.

People will believe what they want to believe.

The maximum rent payable is based on the size of the dwelling as follows:
Bedsit (1 room) - €257.00
1 Bedroom (2 rooms) - €301.00
2 Bedroom (3 rooms) - €313.00
3 Bedroom (4 rooms) - €401.00
Greater than 3 Bedroom/4 rooms - €423.00

Hardly a 'free house'...

Gatling

dark crystal wrote: »

People will believe what they want to believe.




Hardly a 'free house'...

The Maximum payable not the actual rent being paid
I know a family living in a 5 bed( converted from a 4 )paying less than 300pm

dark crystal

Gatling wrote: »

The Maximum payable not the actual rent being paid

How do you know what people pay or do not pay?

dark crystal

Gatling wrote: »

The Maximum payable not the actual rent being paid
I know a family living in a 5 bed( converted from a 4 )paying less than 300pm

Do they work?

Gatling

dark crystal wrote: »

How do you know what people pay or do not pay?

Most people won't admit what there paying on here ,
And the council dont admit what there getting less than there suppost to be ,

dark crystal

Gatling wrote: »

Most people won't admit what there paying on here ,
And the council dont admit what there getting less than there suppost to be ,

Well I live in a council house with my partner and we pay more than that - so do many of my neighbours.

Gatling

dark crystal wrote: »

Well I live in a council house with my partner and we pay more than that - so do many of my neighbours.

Both employed ?

My sister has a 4 bed pays 270pm

My in-laws have the 5 bed pay 280 pm

Seem's to be a lot on inconsistencies in rents

I know some people are paying more some are paying less

dark crystal

Gatling wrote: »

Both employed ?

My sister has a 4 bed pays 270pm

My in-laws have the 5 bed pay 280 pm

Seem's to be a lot on inconsistencies in rents

I know some people are paying more some are paying less

He works full time, I work part-time and that's how our rent was calculated. We have a 3-bedroomed house.

Gatling

dark crystal wrote: »

He works full time, I work part-time and that's how our rent was calculated. We have a 3-bedroomed house.

That explains a lot ,I'd like to see people who work pay less rather than the other way around

Pendu

NuckingFacker wrote: »

If you study, slog, get promotions and save hard, maybe you can get a mortgage on an overpriced house or apartment which you can then slog to pay for, for the rest of your life.

If you just don't bother at all, here you go, have a house, pay a tiny rent, out of your dole. Need a bed? Here you go. Need a fridge? here you go. Need room for your trampoline? Here you go.

This is one very, very fecked up world. I do not entirely get it.

Its all a game of imaginary money going round and round in a giant circle jerk of laws, banking, market fixing, distant politics and social welfare, the only thing you need to ensure is that theres enough of it flowing through you at any one time to satisfy your need for survival and having a bigger radio cd player than you neighbor ... great success

crockholm

the_syco wrote: »

The mad thing was, the influx were drawn by your high wages.


Well, that's what they just said. If they need it, it's a privilege.

Out of interest, what's the average percentage of the rent that they have to pay?

My high wages included 80 euro a day 7.00-5.00 for a while back in 2006. Or if you wish,disregard the rest of the post and begrudge all you want.

Ray Palmer

dark crystal wrote: »

It was mainly banks, greedy property developers and gamblers who got us in to this mess, but hey, let's blame the single parents anyway!

No system is perfect, but I'd be open to suggestions for an alternative to social housing for those unable to afford mortgages or private rents, because the reality is, not everyone can.

That is a simplistic view and absolves everybody else of responsibility. It isn't really true no matter how popular a view is. There was massive greed from many people.

I never blamed single parents for the economic mess as such but they are certainly responsible for their own circumstances. The bankers and developers didn't get them pregnant without means to support their child. Nothing wrong with being a single parent but if you then have to rely on the state for everything who but you is responsible? Not everybody is equal as I am sure some were widowed, abandoned or even raped.

If some are in private rented places paying their own way fine they can do it but why are we paying for others lifestyle choices? Where is the personal responsibility?

The question is why they can't afford to pay rent or a mortgage. Are they responsible for their situation, are they manipulating their situation in order to get benefits? There will always be those in need and they should be provided for but the system is over run with people who are responsible for their own situation and do so by choice.

Friends and family have lived in social housing but were aspirational to do better for themselves and their children. The situation has changed to be a choice.

demanufactured

Where is this family living at the minute????

wolfpawnat

demanufactured wrote: »

Where is this family living at the minute????

More than likely in a privately rented house using rent allowance. So they are costing the state money.

GG66

I'd buy that trampoline but ...
I can't afford it with my mortgage ...
And then where would I fit it ...

Not everyone buying their own home gets to live in their own community due to prices in those areas, lack of available homes etc. They move to a new area and become part of that community or perhaps travel back to their old community to meet their friends and family.

Lots of people live in flats and apartments without gardens. While it's nice to have I don't see it as an entitlement.

I know of an instance where a new council house was freshly fitted out with a new kitchen by a friend of mine. The new "owner" kicked up a fuss when she arrived as she hadn't chosen that kitchen and she had a "right" to choose her own kitchen. He left to arrive back the next day and find the kitchen ripped out and thrown on the lawn. When he asked the council what to do, he was told to give her what she wanted. - Abbreviated but true story

I believe everyone is entitled to a home of a reasonable standard but some of the reasons for refusing houses needs to be reviewed. If I can't afford a big garden, a trampoline, to live near my family I have to do without... and get on with it

hardCopy

Gatling wrote: »

Bin the the stupid thing

Throw it off a cliff

the_syco

wolfpawnat wrote: »

A roof over your head is a basic human right, not a privilege.

Hrm. Perhaps I'll rephrase it to; a roof over your head is an entitlement, the ability to choose which one is a privilege.

MarkR

Feck it. Let them keep the trampoline and they can live under it.

I reckon they'll bounce back anyway..

Apanachi

Ah seriously now, while I get having a garden is fantastic, they should be glad they got a house (unless it was a real kip, damp, mouldy, doors falling off kind of kip, not small garden kip), now not having seen the house I can't judge, but I'm sure if that house had been offered to an asylum seeking or immigrant family*, that same family that refused would be livid and giving out about how the government "should look after their own first))



I'm assuming this wasn't an asylum seeking or immigrant family, because the racist card would more than likey have been pulled already...

Galwayguy35

That FG councillor is a joke, you'd swear we were living in North Korea with the rubbish she was spouting.

Sleepy

Why would anyone accept a council house when the rent allowance system is in place?

The Rent Allowance my family would qualify for were we in need of it would be €50 a month shy of what we currently pay in one of Dublin's nicest neighbourhoods. I'm sure the landlord would take the €50 under the table if we needed to collect RA. Were we offered a council house I think I'd be trying to find a way to avoid it for a simple reason: most of them are in absolute ****holes.

wolfpawnat

the_syco wrote: »

Hrm. Perhaps I'll rephrase it to; a roof over your head is an entitlement, the ability to choose which one is a privilege.

I agree with that statement. If the LA provide you with a house, unless there is something horrific wrong with it, you should be forced to take it!

Sleepy wrote: »

Why would anyone accept a council house when the rent allowance system is in place?

The Rent Allowance my family would qualify for were we in need of it would be €50 a month shy of what we currently pay in one of Dublin's nicest neighbourhoods. I'm sure the landlord would take the €50 under the table if we needed to collect RA. Were we offered a council house I think I'd be trying to find a way to avoid it for a simple reason: most of them are in absolute ****holes.

Except you are not guaranteed the top rate, their rules are based on the income, no. of people in the family, how many parents (single or two parent family) and then you are forced to pay a minimum of 130 a month per adult (and that is if they are on SW) now it does mean that you have people on SW living in areas they never did before, and if they are good people trying to get by, then that's okay, if they are perpetual abusers of the SW and are anti-social, well then they are dragging a whole area down.

gcgirl

spank_inferno wrote: »

If its a married family, the rent can be more or less full market value.

If its a single parent / no income family the rent can be quite low.

So it varies based on circumstance.

(my own example was from 1999, my parents who were unemployed at the time paid £20 p/w for a 3 bed semi.
Our neighbour, a working single mum paid a token £2...... this was in Wicklow)

Add another 50 on to that and I live in Wicklow
you pay 30% of your gross