Anybody with a gun is a criminal.....apparently.

Grizzly 45

Sparks might be more up on this one?
But apprently you cant group libel/defame a bunch of people.However thats not to stop the slighted group from trying to make PR hay out of the matter.
Pavee point is a good case example.

EWQuinn

The site link was redneck looking outfit from Ohio, what are you guys talking about???

The perch looks really great, brings back memories of childhood fishing, freshwater perch was the best eating fish bar none!

BattleCorp

EWQuinn wrote: »

The site link was redneck looking outfit from Ohio, what are you guys talking about???

The perch looks really great, brings back memories of childhood fishing, freshwater perch was the best eating fish bar none!

A radio presenter from Ireland called George Hook made some untrue statements about gun ownership on the radio here in Ireland yesterday. He is very against gun ownership and believes that if all guns were banned, then there would be no gun crime. And anybody with a gun here in Ireland is a criminal. This is the type of crap that some people in the media are spouting over here.





He has no connection to the gun shop in the US. Someone linked that in for a laugh.

BattleCorp

An apology from George Hook is one thing but I think the shooting community should go a bit further.

Give him an invite to come down and see some competitions in action. Show him the rules and regulations we have regarding range use etc. Let him know that we aren't all a bunch of criminals or Rambos going around shooting people left right and centre. Let him talk to us, and see things from our viewpoint. At least then he'd know what he was talking about.


He'd hardly be interested in that though, it's not very sensationalist.

badshot

ignore him
he's a pompous windbag

BattleCorp

If I was a pompous windbag spouting defamatory comments about you, would you ignore it?


Especially when, and even though I hate to admit it, he has the ability to influence some members of the public.

mister gullible

George is quite entertaining and often prompts a bit of criticism however the level of righteous indignation in this thread is hilarious. Of course gun owners are not criminals but maybe some of them are a little thin skinned.

mister gullible

Maybe there is a good hanging tree around :rolleyes:

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But apprently you cant group libel/defame a bunch of people.

Correct, and the law is maddeningly imprecise on the size a group has to be before defamation can/cannot occur.

However thats not to stop the slighted group from trying to make PR hay out of the matter.
Pavee point is a good case example.

Er, no. That's a whole other body of law you're looking at, by declaring themselves a seperate ethnic group, travellers avail of the legislation prohibiting hate speech. As we're not a seperate ethnicity but a diverse group, that option's not available to us.

Sparks

mister gullible wrote: »

George is quite entertaining and often prompts a bit of criticism however the level of righteous indignation in this thread is hilarious. Of course gun owners are not criminals but maybe some of them are a little thin skinned.

Come back and tell us that when you've been told directly that your sport isn't a real sport at all, but just you wanting to kill children (and that's not even a rare occurrence).

BattleCorp

mister gullible wrote: »

George is quite entertaining and often prompts a bit of criticism however the level of righteous indignation in this thread is hilarious. Of course gun owners are not criminals but maybe some of them are a little thin skinned.

I'm not thin skinned, I'm being defensive in protection of my sport.

Public opinion often dictates whether or not I am allowed to take part in the sport that I love (target shooting) because public opinion more often than not dictates what laws politicians make. And sometimes politicians make dumb laws.

If ill-informed people are allowed to put incorrect information onto the public airwaves unchallenged, it could cause us in the shooting community much hassle.

People in the law abiding shooting community are always under attack (so to speak) from the anti-gun side of the debate.

We are constantly looked down upon by people who can't tell the difference between a legally held gun and an illegal gun in the hands of a criminal. Unfortunately, a lot of the powers that be seem not to know that difference either.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Er, no. That's a whole other body of law you're looking at, by declaring themselves a seperate ethnic group, travellers avail of the legislation prohibiting hate speech. As we're not a seperate ethnicity but a diverse group, that option's not available to us.

But its our religion that they are attacking....!!!:) I call out for a fatwah on the infidel George Hook and jihad on the unbelivers!!!:D

wexfordman2

Sparks wrote: »

Correct, and the law is maddeningly imprecise on the size a group has to be before defamation can/cannot occur.

Er, no. That's a whole other body of law you're looking at, by declaring themselves a seperate ethnic group, travellers avail of the legislation prohibiting hate speech. As we're not a seperate ethnicity but a diverse group, that option's not available to us.

Could we not claim discrimination on the grounds that we are "all rednecks"

I vote we declare ourselves members of the redneck nation, we must work to protect and preserve our culture, our way of life, our minority rights, our language etc.

Rednecks of Ireland unite and fight this ignorant discrimination!

mister gullible

Sparks wrote: »

Come back and tell us that when you've been told directly that your sport isn't a real sport at all, but just you wanting to kill children (and that's not even a rare occurrence).

Did George say that, if so it's obvious nonsense and doesn't warrant serious consideration (and waves of indignation).
And I do hunt.

mister gullible

People in the law abiding shooting community are always under attack (so to speak) from the anti-gun side of the debate.

We are constantly looked down upon by people who can't tell the difference between a legally held gun and an illegal gun in the hands of a criminal. Unfortunately, a lot of the powers that be seem not to know that difference either.[/QUOTE]

Ah now....

Sparks

mister gullible wrote: »

Did George say that, if so it's obvious nonsense and doesn't warrant serious consideration (and waves of indignation).

Not explicitly, he just started talking about the gun control debate in the US post-Sandy Hook and then said that only criminals had guns in Ireland. Others, however, have been far more explicit.

And long before this incident, we've seen TDs abuse parliamentary privilege to defame people in our sport in blind denial of the facts, even when we point those facts out to them.

Should we give them no serious consideration either, when they're the ones who subsequently rewrite the firearms acts to ban sports, ban ownership of classes of firearms, and all on the basis of what the public thinks - something set by people like George Hook?

Hell, even article 40 of the constitution makes noises about this kind of thing.

Sparks

mister gullible wrote: »

Ah now....

Yeah, you'd think it was just paranoia, wouldn't you?
It's just that we've actually encountered it, repeatedly, from the media and TDs and Ministers for the last decade or so.
Is it paranoia when it'a part of the public record?

yubabill1

Sparks wrote: »

Yeah, you'd think it was just paranoia, wouldn't you?
It's just that we've actually encountered it, repeatedly, from the media and TDs and Ministers for the last decade or so.
Is it paranoia when it'a part of the public record?

Again, I think we need to form the debate more often.

A timely, moderate email to RTE, Newstalk or wherever is worth gigabytes of fuming indignation in our own forums.

meathstevie

Hang on a minute here about the libel stuff, a lot of firearms owners especially in rural areas are not that anonymous a group at all. People see you walking fields with a gun, neighbours would know you go out shooting etc etc. People like Sparks for example would have a certain public profile, the NARGC has a number of publicly relatively well known members/employees. Not that I have any intention of running to a solicitor about some windbag comment from a man who's not exactly known for consistency in his opinions but he could be on thin ice as far as I can see.

yubabill1

meathstevie wrote: »

Hang on a minute here about the libel stuff, a lot of firearms owners especially in rural areas are not that anonymous a group at all. People see you walking fields with a gun, neighbours would know you go out shooting etc etc. People like Sparks for example would have a certain public profile, the NARGC has a number of publicly relatively well known members/employees. Not that I have any intention of running to a solicitor about some windbag comment from a man who's not exactly known for consistency in his opinions but he could be on thin ice as far as I can see.

You see, I remember when everyone grew veg in their back garden, some had chickens and some had pigs. Not as long ago as you might think.
My point is, we are increasingly becoming removed from the land and urban people have different takes on things.
So, it is up to us to remind them why we need a gun, or a spade, or why we should be allowed rear and kill a pig (almost impossible now).
Each time something niggles, send an email to someone who matters. Doesn't have to be witty, well-written or anything.
Anyone who wants is free to copy any I put up here and send them on.:o

BattleCorp

mister gullible wrote: »

People in the law abiding shooting community are always under attack (so to speak) from the anti-gun side of the debate.

We are constantly looked down upon by people who can't tell the difference between a legally held gun and an illegal gun in the hands of a criminal. Unfortunately, a lot of the powers that be seem not to know that difference either.

Ah now....

I stand by my comment.




Because of the misguided opinion of a previous minister, I am restricted as to the type of shooting competitions that I can enter.

Unfortunately, here in Ireland "gun control" seems to be more like "gun banning" than gun control.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for gun control. Guns need to be in safe hands. But the important word here is "control". Not an all out ban. Guns should be in the hands of people who have demonstrated that they are safe and sensible, of sound mind, and have a legitimate use for that particular firearm.

Very little seems to be given to the shooting community but a lot of stuff gets taken away bit by bit by bit.

That's why I personally am so defensive of my sport.

EWQuinn

So an important question might be, of the gun crimes in Ireland, how many are committed by legal gun owners with legally registered guns?

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/cp/ireland

"An investigation into Dublin's underground firearm dealers by the Sunday Times (UK) newspaper in 2009 found high-powered handguns, machine pistols and AK-47 assault rifles to be on offer in the criminal underworld, but at considerable cost. One military analyst believed most were smuggled from Russia and Eastern Europe. Senior Gardaí declined to guess at the number of illicit firearms in circulation."

http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/nationworld/report/071910_dublinguncrime/gangs-guns-dublin-streets/

I could not find the answer online, perhaps one of you has it. I'll use these articles to jump to a conclusion that gun crimes in Ireland are mainly committed by criminals with illegal guns. So the answer is that criminals are criminals, and law abiding gun owners are, by and large law abiding gun owners.

BTW, Ms. Campbell of Aberdeen University had to configure a little to describe the US vs Ireland and the rest of the world: "The homicide rate in Ireland is almost two per 100,000, twice the rate of a few years ago but much lower than the five per 100,000 in the U.S., which has the highest murder rate of any industrialized democracy." Ok, thats a rate of 0.002% vs 0.005%, in a nation of 4 million vs a nation of 300 million. An industrialized democracy with 300 million people and 100-200 million gun owners vs what other industrialized democracy? (Is Russia an industrialized democracy?) For a different perspective:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/12/U-N-Maps-Show-U-S-High-In-Gun-Ownership-Low-In-Homicides

bazza888

anybody here the reporter handing hook an ass chewing when he started to try and tell them they were overreacting in their search for the 2nd bomber,the guy tore him a new one basicly said he was talking crap, hook ran for the hills

FISMA

BattleCorp wrote: »

George hook ...

Who?

Never heard of him...

session savage

Im certain I read a statistic somewhere before about people with licensed firearms being the most law abiding demographic.
I stand to be corrected but I'm sure i read that somewhere. I would be brilliant if it was here i read it and someone could repost the link!

EWQuinn

A quick & informal review of Irish murder cases involving guns indicates anecdotally they are mostly associated with gangs or illegal activity committed with illegal guns.

wexfordman2

EWQuinn wrote: »

A quick & informal review of Irish murder cases involving guns indicates anecdotally they are mostly associated with gangs or illegal activity committed with illegal guns.

precisely the argument most people are making here, which makes hook look like an arse!!

Half-cocked

wexfordman2 wrote: »

precisely the argument most people are making here, which makes hook look like an arse!!

And just like an arse, it's nothing but sh1t that comes out of him.

EWQuinn

After a quick assessment of old Hooky, basically a meat headed rugger who's unfortunately got a microphone. (He coached the US Rugby team in 1987 :0) I watched his "debating style" on you tube, not very impressive.

Grizzly 45

But then again,what can we expect if we put proably brain damaged from all the impacts to the head ex rugger coache and former coke snorting and boozing football star in front of the TV cameras and microphones of the State propaganda ...er...RTE and the masses hag on every flatutent eruction from these Ex sports Gods as gospel.

Being able to kick , hit with a stick,or carry a lump of leather around a cow pasture is NOT a sign of great intelligence or leadership capability oe even basic common sense either.:rolleyes::(
Something us Irish should keep in mind the next time we cast our ballots in local or general elections to elect the new crop of our Dear Leaders.