The sex myth

Three Seasons

The sex myth is a book written by Doctor Brook Magnanti. In it she details numerous myths related to sex. One of them being that the number of women who are "trafficked" into sex work is grossly over estimated. Only a handful of cases of "trafficking" we're found to be taking place in Britain and Germany after large scale operations by police forces were instigated. This is something I've intuitively felt for a long time now.

What sex myths do you believe are propagated by the media and various organisations?

Sarn

That women are from Venus and men are from Mars.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yeah, women are from portarlington and men are from stradbally

think about it, it explains quite a lot

Chuck Stone

Whores will have their trinkets.

Czarcasm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

yeah, women are from portarlington and men are from stradbally

think about it, it explains quite a lot

In order to get that you'd have to be familiar with both towns, the same way in order to understand the context and motivations of the OP's biased source, you'd have to know her by her more familiar nomme de plume "Belle Du Jour", a former sex worker who's made a fortune from her literary efforts.

kneemos

2.3 times a week.Not even close.

Henlars67

I find the 'stat' that 1 in 4 women have been sexually assaulted in some way to be absurdly high.

I once questioned it on twitter though and a few retweets later I had women from all over calling me a rapist, a rape apologist, a misogynist etc.

Surely that figure is untrue?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Czarcasm wrote: »

In order to get that you'd have to be familiar with both towns, the same way in order to understand the context and motivations of the OP's biased source, you'd have to know her by her more familiar nomme de plume "Belle Du Jour", a former sex worker who's made a fortune from her literary efforts.

well most of the "human trafficking" stats come from hardcore religious organisations or hardcore feminists, neither of which can really be trusted about anything

smash

kneemos wrote: »

2.3 times a week.Not even close.

Is the .3 a ****?

Roger_007

kneemos wrote: »

2.3 times a week.Not even close.

I seem to be having a lot of the 0.3 variety!

smcgiff

It'd be very disturbing if sex trafficking figures have been over reported. That could be very harming.

You could just imagine the local hoods thinking. This is rife, and very few get caught - how come I'm not involved in this?

smash

Roger_007 wrote: »

I seem to be having a lot of the 0.3 variety!

And even if you have 3 of them it doesn't make a (w)hole... Math lied to you!

Merkin

I think one of the most damaging sex myths that was propogated by religious institutions back in the day was that sex was somehow dirty or impure. This in turn resulted in entire generations of families believing sex to be shameful and wrong.This in turn sheltered sexual abusers both within aforementioned institutions and indeed within the nuclear family.......fcuk it makes me mad

smash

smcgiff wrote: »

You could just imagine the local hoods thinking. This is rife, and very few get caught - how come I'm not involved in this?

They've seen taken. Clearly they're terrified!

Henlars67

Merkin wrote: »

I think one of the most damaging sex myths that was propogated by religious institutions back in the day was that sex was somehow dirty or impure. This in turn resulted in entire generations of families believing sex to be shameful and wrong.This in turn sheltered sexual abusers both within aforementioned institutions and indeed within the nuclear family.......fcuk it makes me mad

Back in the day?

That's still church teaching.

It's just that nobody listens to it anymore.

antodeco

That an empty packet of crisps and a hair bobbin is perfect contraception

noddyone2

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

yeah, women are from portarlington and men are from stradbally

think about it, it explains quite a lot

Is this Stradbally Co. Laois or Co. Waterford?

Roger_007

smcgiff wrote: »

It'd be very disturbing if sex trafficking figures have been over reported. That could be very harming.

You could just imagine the local hoods thinking. This is rife, and very few get caught - how come I'm not involved in this?

The figures for trafficking are based on the assumption that any woman who comes to this country and engages in prostitution has been "trafficked". On this basis the biggest trafficker in the country is Michael O'Leary. How does he get away with it???

Merkin

antodeco wrote: »

That an empty packet of crisps and a hair bobbin is perfect contraception

And that you won't get preggers if you do it standing up

Henlars67

Merkin wrote: »

And that you won't get preggers if you do it standing up

'preggers' has to be one of the most annoying so-called-words ever made up

DrumSteve

antodeco wrote: »

That an empty packet of crisps and a hair bobbin is perfect contraception

Aldi freezer bag and masking tape if your going posh.

smash

Henlars67 wrote: »

'preggers' has to be one of the most annoying so-called-words ever made up

Is preggo acceptable?

Czarcasm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

well most of the "human trafficking" stats come from hardcore religious organisations or hardcore feminists, neither of which can really be trusted about anything

You're right Digby, best take the word of a former sex worker with her own biased agenda then instead, because sex workers are renowned for their honesty, the tart with a heart isn't a myth at all then... :pac:


Here, have a mosey over this thread-

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056883055/1

This thread was more just a thinly veiled effort at booting off the topic again under a different guise, and I'm neither religious nor feminist.

BraziliaNZ

smash wrote: »

Math lied to you!

Stop that

--Kaiser--

That women can orgasm

Czarcasm

Merkin wrote: »

And that you won't get preggers if you do it standing up

... In the shower, so you can douche afterwards :pac:

Lingua Franca

Henlars67 wrote: »

I find the 'stat' that 1 in 4 women have been sexually assaulted in some way to be absurdly high.

I once questioned it on twitter though and a few retweets later I had women from all over calling me a rapist, a rape apologist, a misogynist etc.

Surely that figure is untrue?

I'd consider it to be absurdly low, in that I personally haven't met a woman who hasn't ever been sexually assaulted. I've been groped on the street and in crowds, to give you the 'softest' examples of the disgusting sh*t that has been done to me. Every woman I've talked to about the subject has been subjected to everything from unwelcome gropings to rape.


I also wouldn't trust Brooke Magnati in a word she says. After all, she was a 'high class escort', wtf would she know of cheap brothels? I hear of too many news stories about women being rescued from them to brush it aside with a "well I don't know any so it can't be true".

BraziliaNZ

Lingua Franca wrote: »

I'd consider it to be absurdly low, in that I personally haven't met a woman who hasn't ever been sexually assaulted

Do you live in East Berlin in 1945?

Roger_007

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

That women can orgasm

That's not a myth. Women are like hurricanes, they come wild and wet and when they leave they take the house!

Lingua Franca

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Do you live in East Berlin in 1945?

No. What on earth kind of question is that?

Here's one for you: are you a woman?

BraziliaNZ

Lingua Franca wrote: »

No. What on earth kind of question is that?

Here's one for you: are you a woman?

No but I've had my ass grabbed by women and gay men in bars etc over the years. Does that count as sexual assault?

Merkin

Henlars67 wrote: »

'preggers' has to be one of the most annoying so-called-words ever made up

Can I say up the duff then? Or would you prefer 'with child'?

Lingua Franca

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

No but I've had my ass grabbed by women and gay men in bars etc over the years. Does that count as sexual assault?

Yes.

Czarcasm

Roger_007 wrote: »

That's not a myth. Women are like hurricanes, they come wild and wet and when they leave they take the house!

It's more like a tsunami than a hurricane in fairness, the first time it happened to me I thought she was taking a pìss on top of me before she passed out! :pac:

The_Kew_Tour

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Yes.

Well if that is case we could be looking in
1 in 2 men scenario

Lingua Franca

Indeed, that could well be true.

kneemos

Merkin wrote: »

Can I say up the duff then? Or would you prefer 'with child'?

Round in the chamber.

tritium

Like most things the myths heavily depend on interpretation. Depending on what agenda is being pursued the most favourable interpretation will be used. The sexual assault comments earlier in this thread is a good example- is a grope in a night club sexual assault? Possibly, possibly not depending on your view, but the interpretation will radically change the figures. Domestic violence is another example- is shouting at a partner domestic violence? Again it heavily changes the statistics depending on interpretation.

Where it becomes depressing is when groups pick and choose which interpretation they'll use this week. For example shouting may be domestic violence if it's a man shouting but not a woman 'being assertive'

In terms of the source I'm not sure why anyone would dismiss magniani out of hand. The fact she's a former sex worker should I'd imagine give her a far better insight than the many pious souls who bleat on about this issue without anything other than second hand knowledge.

I'm also unaware (but open to correction) of any obvious wider agenda she's signed up to- to put it simply should a believe someone who's going to get paid for writing this stuff anyway, or someone with no relevant experience whose career depends on sustaining a particular view?

--Kaiser--

Merkin wrote: »

I think one of the most damaging sex myths that was propogated by religious institutions back in the day was that sex was somehow dirty or impure.

Sex is dirty.........if done right

smcgiff

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Yes.

I'd say most people have been gropped at some stage - male and female.

When men get gropped by women it's probably not considered as offensive. I remember being more taken aback than outraged.

Three Seasons

I've certainly had my ass and balls groped on countless occasions.

That's not including the number of times women have reversed their ass into my crotch to seduce me or glanced the back of their hand off my crotch.

mariaalice

Teenagers are at it like rabbit since the age of 13

Or

13year old girls are getting drunk and giving blow jobs all round and their doing it every weekend shock!!!! ( added interest if they are posh and from south Dublin, with naive parents.)

Rosy Posy

Henlars67 wrote: »

I find the 'stat' that 1 in 4 women have been sexually assaulted in some way to be absurdly high.

I once questioned it on twitter though and a few retweets later I had women from all over calling me a rapist, a rape apologist, a misogynist etc.

Surely that figure is untrue?

This attitude makes my blood boil. It is precisely this line of thinking that creates a rape culture in our society that manifests in teenage rapists posting photos of their crimes on Facebook, and rape victims taking their own lives because of the stigma attached to them.

How about this for a sex myth- the myth of the rapist hiding down an alley with a knife. Most rapists are known to their victims. Sexual assault does not have to be violent. Having sex with someone who is unconcious or too drunk to give consent is rape. Just because someone has slept with you before or has consented at an earlier time does not give you carte blanche to have sex with them again without obtaining their consent.

The reason that rape and sexual assault is so shockingly underreported is because of the societal attitude that casts aspersions on the victim, as well as the social stigma that comes attached, which filters down through the system to result in the abysmally low conviction rate for rapists.

Like another poster here, I find the one in four statistic low. I would have put it closer to three in four, especially if you take war zones into account. What makes you so sure of yourself as to presume to question the statistic? Most rape survivors don't advertise the fact. Many will only share their story with a handful of trusted confidants. Many more will tell no one. Due in part to having to come up against the kind of attitude displayed by you. Fwiw, I don't think you are a rapist, misogynist or monster, merely a product of our society. I hope that you can be open enough to do a little research in this area, adjust your attitude, then try to change someone else's.

Czarcasm

tritium wrote: »

Like most things the myths heavily depend on interpretation. Depending on what agenda is being pursued the most favourable interpretation will be used. The sexual assault comments earlier in this thread is a good example- is a grope in a night club sexual assault? Possibly, possibly not depending on your view, but the interpretation will radically change the figures. Domestic violence is another example- is shouting at a partner domestic violence? Again it heavily changes the statistics depending on interpretation.

Where it becomes depressing is when groups pick and choose which interpretation they'll use this week. For example shouting may be domestic violence if it's a man shouting but not a woman 'being assertive'

I was right with you up until this bit-

In terms of the source I'm not sure why anyone would dismiss magniani out of hand. The fact she's a former sex worker should I'd imagine give her a far better insight than the many pious souls who bleat on about this issue without anything other than second hand knowledge.

It's like saying a doctor doesn't know anything about a particular illness when they would have far more experience and knowledge about the illness than the person who suffers from it. The person who suffers from it only knows what it's like for them, the doctor will have seen far more patients present with the illness and have a much wider background knowledge of the illness.

I'm also unaware (but open to correction) of any obvious wider agenda she's signed up to-

There's too many links I could put here about her agenda, but let me at least present to you an article from thejournal.ie in which she puts forward her agenda-

http://www.thejournal.ie/former-belle-de-jour-concerned-about-irish-sex-workers-legislation-777305-Feb2013/

to put it simply should a believe someone who's going to get paid for writing this stuff anyway, or someone with no relevant experience whose career depends on sustaining a particular view?

Quite ironic that you should put it that way when Ms. Magnati's career not only depends on people buying into her point of view, but also buying her books that ironically enough are based on bad science, personal opinion, and shìtty statistics while she tries to pass herself off nowadays as a scientist.

She's nothing but a snake oil saleswoman who makes Fifty Shades of Grey read like the National Geographic.

folan

rainbow parties.

and those bracelets.

teenagers were apparently very sexually active back in my day.

wish one of them would have at least called me.

jaffacakesyum

Rosy Posy wrote: »

This attitude makes my blood boil. It is precisely this line of thinking that creates a rape culture in our society that manifests in teenage rapists posting photos of their crimes on Facebook, and rape victims taking their own lives because of the stigma attached to them.

How about this for a sex myth- the myth of the rapist hiding down an alley with a knife. Most rapists are known to their victims. Sexual assault does not have to be violent. Having sex with someone who is unconcious or too drunk to give consent is rape. Just because someone has slept with you before or has consented at an earlier time does not give you carte blanche to have sex with them again without obtaining their consent.

The reason that rape and sexual assault is so shockingly underreported is because of the societal attitude that casts aspersions on the victim, as well as the social stigma that comes attached, which filters down through the system to result in the abysmally low conviction rate for rapists.

Like another poster here, I find the one in four statistic low. I would have put it closer to three in four, especially if you take war zones into account. What makes you so sure of yourself as to presume to question the statistic? Most rape survivors don't advertise the fact. Many will only share their story with a handful of trusted confidants. Many more will tell no one. Due in part to having to come up against the kind of attitude displayed by you. Fwiw, I don't think you are a rapist, misogynist or monster, merely a product of our society. I hope that you can be open enough to do a little research in this area, adjust your attitude, then try to change someone else's.

Sadly, I fear raising the awareness of rape on this thread won't get you much agreement. I wonder if this will get much thanks..

Lingua Franca

tritium wrote: »

Like most things the myths heavily depend on interpretation. Depending on what agenda is being pursued the most favourable interpretation will be used. The sexual assault comments earlier in this thread is a good example- is a grope in a night club sexual assault? Possibly, possibly not depending on your view, but the interpretation will radically change the figures.

Indeed. I don't go to nightclubs, myself. Any time I've been groped it has been in public (extra humiliation on top of the invasion of my body). I was groped at the age of 14 by two grown men in a crowd at a concert. I was groped on the stree at the age of 30 by a teenager who ran up behind me and assaulted me.

People may have their own personal interpretations but the law is clear - sexual assault is touching someone in a sexual manner without their consent. My own interpretation matches the law.

I teach my children that no one is allowed to touch any part of their body without their consent. I'm not going to add the caveat "unless it's for a laugh, in which case brush it off as no big thing".

Three Seasons

Well according to doctor Brook Magnanti te evidence points strongly to the fact that 15 % of prostitutes are street walkers yet the only ones who seem to be questioned in so many "studies" are the street walkers and prostitutes in drug clinics. This makes the so called studies ridiculously biased and unscientific and not representative of the real world of prostitution.

smash

Rosy Posy wrote: »

This attitude makes my blood boil. It is precisely this line of thinking that creates a rape culture in our society

This phrase makes my blood boil :rolleyes:

Lingua Franca

I would agree that's likely that the majority of sex workers work from home and advertise discreetly, and of course street workers and drugs clinics would be easiest for researchers to get to speak to prostitutes but if all the so called studies are ridiculously biased and unscientific and not representative of the real world of prostitution, where is she getting this figure of 15% from?

Czarcasm

Three Seasons wrote: »

Well according to doctor Brook Magnanti te evidence points strongly to the fact that 15 % of prostitutes are street walkers yet the only ones who seem to be questioned in so many "studies" are the street walkers and prostitutes in drug clinics. This makes the so called studies ridiculously biased and unscientific and not representative of the real world of prostitution.

To quote Helen Lewis, in her book review of "The Sex Myth" in The New Statesman-

If you’re going to be a smart arse – and she is, relentlessly – make sure you’re right.

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/culture/2012/04/review-sex-myth-brooke-magnanti


And check out Ms. Magnati's reply to an e-mail sent to her by another book reviewer here-

http://quietgirlriot.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/bad-science-a-review-of-the-sex-myth-by-brooke-magnanti/


Her "buy into my bullshìt, or go fcuk yourself" attitude to a critique of her work doesn't exactly bode well for her reputation as a "scientist" now, does it?


Scientist my àrse! :pac: