The sex myth

EddieJohnsonJR

Czarcasm wrote: »

As for the "minority of men" that are "getting all the girls", that's a myth borne of your own insecurity, I wouldn't be cruel enough to suggest you were deluded.

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/

"As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium."

EddieJohnsonJR

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Can you explain the 'powerless feeling' part?

What is it and why does your hypothetical man have it?

How about the fact that men today are being emasculated and marginalized in society for one? Every facet of our culture caters to women, leaving men without a place in it, hence the 'powerless feeling', along with the 4-5X suicide rate relative to women.

Pug160

Czarcasm wrote: »

This one?





Yeah, that's a myth too btw, seeing as there are more pensioners rediscovering their sexuality in the last ten years than ever before-

http://www.healthcareglobal.com/global_hospitals/number-of-pensioners-with-stis-doubles-in-10-years


As for the "minority of men" that are "getting all the girls", that's a myth borne of your own insecurity, I wouldn't be cruel enough to suggest you were deluded.

It was my later post I was referring to, but seeing as you brought it up I'll respond. I'm aware most people can get sex unless they look like Quasimodo, but in my experience. some men do indeed get a lot of girls while others go months and even years celibate. Women often like men other women like, so it's not really breaking news. This post didn't have anything to do with my later ones though. I only read through a bit of the thread after I made that post.

corktina

there was NO SEX at all when I was young, now I'm old history repeats itself... if I come back in another life, i'm hoping to come back, front, sideways...everywhich way....

Pug160

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Can you explain the 'powerless feeling' part?

What is it and why does your hypothetical man have it?

I'll let Norah Vincent explain it. This is from the book Self-made Man: My Year Disguised as a Man. Another poster here posted this a while back.

Sex is most powerful in the mind, and to men, in the mind, women have a lot of power, not only to arouse, but to give worth, self-worth, meaning, initiation, sustenance, everything. Seeing this more clearly through my experience, I began to wonder whether the most extreme men resort to violence with women because they think that's all they have, their one pathetic advantage over all she seems to hold above them. I make no excuses for this. There are none. But as a man I felt vaguely attuned to this mind-set or its possibility. I did not inhabit it, but I thought I saw how rejection might get twisted beyond recognition in the mind of a discarded male where misogyny and ultimately rape may be a vicious attempt to take what cannot be taken because it has not been bestowed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/mar/18/gender.bookextracts

shopaholic01

EddieJohnsonJR wrote: »

How about the fact that men today are being emasculated and marginalized in society for one? Every facet of our culture caters to women, leaving men without a place in it, hence the 'powerless feeling',

Really? Can you give examples?

EddieJohnsonJR wrote: »

along with the 4-5X suicide rate relative to women.

A lot of people would argue that male suicide rates are higher due to the fact that men were traditionally expected to 'grin and bear it', avoid discussing their feelings and that expressing emotions was effeminate. 'Man up' is frequently used if a male shows vulnerability.

Czarcasm

Pug160 wrote: »

Well, for example, a deluded and irrational man might think all women really want to be raped deep down (because of what he has read), and coupled with a powerless feeling it could be a recipe for disaster. Now obviously, 99.9 percent of men would never think this way, but I'm just trying to get inside the minds of these people.

You're off to a bad start if you're trying to rationalise their behaviour using phrases like "a powerless feeling" to try and understand the mindset of a rapist.

They come from all walks of life and from every sort of background. There is no one single pathology of a rapist.

Micky Dolenz

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Really? Can you give examples?



A lot of people would argue that male suicide rates are higher due to the fact that men were traditionally expected to 'grin and bear it', avoid discussing their feelings and that expressing emotions was effeminate. 'Man up' is frequently used if a male shows vulnerability.

Apparently male and female suicide attempts are fairly close to each other. Men seem to favour more violent methods and in turn are more successful in their attempts.

Pug160

Czarcasm wrote: »

You're off to a bad start if you're trying to rationalise their behaviour using phrases like "a powerless feeling" to try and understand the mindset of a rapist.

They come from all walks of life and from every sort of background. There is no one single pathology of a rapist.

The ''powerless'' feeling is one plausible reason.along with many others - I didn't claim it was the only reason.

shopaholic01

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Apparently male and female suicide attempts are fairly close to each other. Men seem to favour more violent methods and in turn are more successful in their attempts.

I wasn't aware of that, I was responding to another poster who said the rate was 4/5 times higher in males. Obviously the figures just include successful attempts.

Three Seasons

Trudiha wrote: »

I can't see any real point in that. All I'm seeing is a bunch of men who don't seem to have any investment in changing the status quo. It's like being in a room with a bunch of rednecks, shouting 'racism, what racism?

The point is so we can have a rational discussion. If you throw out buzzwords with no real meaning anyone can pin down its very hard to have a reasonable discussion. So would you like to clarify what you meant by rapable?

Czarcasm

King of Kings wrote: »

you sound like a barrel of fun .

There is a clear difference in context. she wasn't being serious in her remarks.


.

That's exactly my point. She didn't see that trivialising the word rape was offensive, but when it was turned in the same context, it was only then she realised how serious it is.

If helping a friend understand that trivialising rape is not funny, and that makes me a dryballs, I'm ok with that.

IM0

Czarcasm wrote: »

You're off to a bad start if you're trying to rationalise their behaviour using phrases like "a powerless feeling" to try and understand the mindset of a rapist.

They come from all walks of life and from every sort of background. There is no one single pathology of a rapist.

they have that in common with suicide bombers then

Pug160

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Apparently male and female suicide attempts are fairly close to each other. Men seem to favour more violent methods and in turn are more successful in their attempts.

Most women seem to do it for a cry for help, where as men are more likely to be intent on carrying it out. It would be misleading to call them all suicide attempts.

smash

Pug160 wrote: »

Most women seem to do it for a cry for help, where as men are more likely to be intent on carrying it out. It would be misleading to call them all suicide attempts.

Your opinion is not fact... Please just stop!

Micky Dolenz

Pug160 wrote: »

Most women seem to do it for a cry for help, where as men are more likely to be intent on carrying it out. It would be misleading to call them all suicide attempts.

Would that be your professional/researched opinion or are you just guessing?

shopaholic01

Czarcasm wrote: »

That's exactly my point. She didn't see that trivialising the word rape was offensive, but when it was turned in the same context, it was only then she realised how serious it is.

I don't understand why some people find some words offensive. They're just words.

The word rape isn't offensive, the act of committing rape is.


We all use inappropriate language in a non-offensive manner - Americans, for instance, are horrified when they hear us telling someone to f*uck off, to us it can simply be a way of saying 'that's unbelievable!'.

Odysseus

Pug160 wrote: »

Most women seem to do it for a cry for help, where as men are more likely to be intent on carrying it out. It would be misleading to call them all suicide attempts.

WOW, how are you coming to that conclusion?

shopaholic01

Pug160 wrote: »

Most women seem to do it for a cry for help, where as men are more likely to be intent on carrying it out. It would be misleading to call them all suicide attempts.

That's the equivalent of saying that women are better at faking suicide, or that men don't have the intelligence not to actually themselves.

You are insulting both genders and reducing suicide to merely a pathetic attempt to attract attention.

Pug160

smash wrote: »

Your opinion is not fact... Please just stop!

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Would that be your professional/researched opinion or are you just guessing?

Odysseus wrote: »

WOW, how are you coming to that conclusion?

shopaholic01 wrote: »

That's the equivalent of saying that women are better at faking suicide, or that men don't have the intelligence not to actually themselves.

You are insulting both genders and reducing suicide to merely a pathetic attempt to attract attention.

The successful methods men use to commit suicide are open to women, so it has to be assumed that women are more likely to do it as a cry for help, as the methods they choose are less likely to result in death. I don't see why people are giving me a hard time for saying this.

Daveysil15

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Really? Can you give examples?



A lot of people would argue that male suicide rates are higher due to the fact that men were traditionally expected to 'grin and bear it', avoid discussing their feelings and that expressing emotions was effeminate. 'Man up' is frequently used if a male shows vulnerability.

You've just given one example. Men are often told to 'Man up' in a lot of different situations, not just suicide. They can sometimes feel they're not allowed to complain when something goes wrong - just grin and bear it.

smash

Pug160 wrote: »

The successful methods men use to commit suicide are open to women, so it has to be assumed that women are more likely to do it as a cry for help, as the methods they choose are less likely to result in death. I don't see why people are giving me a hard time for saying this.

Because you're wrong!

shopaholic01

Daveysil15 wrote: »

You've just given one example. Men are often told to 'Man up' in a lot of different situations, not just suicide. They can sometimes feel they're not allowed to complain when something goes wrong - just grin and bear it.

It's usually men who say it to other men.

The poster I quoted spoke of men being marginalised - I wasn't arguing, I'm just not aware of it. It wasn't mentioned to explain suicide, it was in reference to why some men rape.

Odysseus

Pug160 wrote: »

The successful methods men use to commit suicide are open to women, so it has to be assumed that women are more likely to do it as a cry for help, as the methods they choose are less likely to result in death. I don't see why people are giving me a hard time for saying this.

How many of both genders attempted suicide last year, and how many of both genders actually completed it? What were the difference between between the two genders in both groupings.

I have worked with both genders in relation to self-harm and it is not valid to say that one gender is serious and the other are engaging in a cry for help.

Daveysil15

shopaholic01 wrote: »

It's usually men who say it to other men.

The poster I quoted spoke of men being marginalised - I wasn't arguing, I'm just not aware of it. It wasn't mentioned to explain suicide, it was in reference to why some men rape.

I've heard plenty of women say it too tbh. It's often used in the same context as 'you're only bitter,' and sometimes more serious issues. But you've raised a good point about the pressure put on men to 'grin and bear it.'

shopaholic01

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I've heard plenty of women say it too tbh. It's often used in the same context as 'you're only bitter,' and sometimes more serious issues. But you've raised a good point about the pressure put on men to 'grin and bear it.'

How many people are serious about it though? It's usually a joke.

I'm not picking holes in arguments to push a feminist agenda, I just didn't see the logic in that particular post.

Traditionally society did put pressure on men be the strong silent types, and on women to be gentle and nurturing types - that is changing.

kiffer

shopaholic01 wrote: »

How many people are serious about it though? It's usually a joke.

A joke which perpetuates the culture of silence in which men are discouraged from expressing feelings whilst also being punished for not [expressing them]...
Rable rable.

Daveysil15

shopaholic01 wrote: »

How many people are serious about it though? It's usually a joke.

I'm not picking holes in arguments to push a feminist agenda, I just didn't see the logic in that particular post.

Traditionally society did put pressure on men be the strong silent types, and on women to be gentle and nurturing types - that is changing.

I don't see how been told to 'man up' or 'you're only bitter' as been a joke. Yes things are changing, but not necessarily for the better. As the previous poster said, men have become emascualted and marginalised, at least more so now than before. The misandry in the media, men been denied rights to see their kids and so on. I'm not saying the women don't have any problems, but that poster had a point. You asked for some examples - there they are.

shopaholic01

kiffer wrote: »

A joke which perpetuates the culture of silence in which men are discouraged from expressing feelings whilst also being punished for not [expressing them]...
Rable rable.

I have never heard it said to a man having a serious conversation about emotions or genuine concerns. In that instance the person saying would be an asshole.

Example - A man tells a story about meeting a girl who was obviously interested in him and didn't act on it. The inevitable responses are 'man up' or 'hand back your man card'. You see that on treads here and it's usually male posters who respond like that. It's not meant as a serious attack on the man in question, it's a light-hearted response.

shopaholic01

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I don't see how been told to 'man up' or 'you're only bitter' as been a joke. Yes things are changing, but not necessarily for the better. As the previous poster said, men have become emascualted and marginalised, at least more so now than before. The misandry in the media, men been denied rights to see their kids and so on. I'm not saying the women don't have any problems, but that poster had a point. You asked for some examples - there they are.

I'm not aware of misandry in the media being any more prevalent than misogyny, laws preventing unmarried fathers having parental rights are farcical, if you look at the gay adoption thread you will see I have criticised that.

Some of the posts on this thread suggest that men are sexual predators, I have disagreed with that.

Both men and women face discrimination, neither are acceptable. I honestly do not know anyone who would ignore a man in distress, some might not know what to say but they wouldn't use flippant comments like 'man up'.

Women are accused of being bitter too, I'm frequently told I'll end up a bitter, old woman because I don't want children. To me, that's amusing because it assumes a woman can only achieve fulfillment through procreating.

bodice ripper

Pug160 wrote: »

The successful methods men use to commit suicide are open to women, so it has to be assumed that women are more likely to do it as a cry for help, as the methods they choose are less likely to result in death. I don't see why people are giving me a hard time for saying this.

bollox. women go "missing". near peirs in the wee hours of the morning. families won't say they topped themselves.

suicide_circus

this is rape culture:

http://m.rte.ie/news/touch/2013/0417/381928-un-envoy-rape/

anyone claiming there is a rape culture in Ireland is seriously deluded and needs to cop themselves on pronto.

Czarcasm

shopaholic01 wrote: »

I don't understand why some people find some words offensive. They're just words.

People are offended by words because words have meaning, so for example when I was growing up there was nothing queer about Noddy and Big Ears going for a gay stroll in the woods. Nowadays though that'd raise a few eyebrows!

The word rape isn't offensive, the act of committing rape is.

The word rape itself isn't what causes offence, it's how that word is used, and in instances where it is trivialised, most people would still consider it offensive, as in the example I gave where my friend thought it was ok to say she wanted to rape a guy, but took offence when I asked how would she like if he were to rape her.

We all use inappropriate language in a non-offensive manner - Americans, for instance, are horrified when they hear us telling someone to f*uck off, to us it can simply be a way of saying 'that's unbelievable!'.

If an American girl was leaving a bar in Ireland, and asked any of the men if they'd like a ride, but they'd have to squeeze in behind her fanny as she's only driving a rental and she can't handle the stick shift...

There wouldn't be a dry japs eye in the house! :pac:

Daveysil15

shopaholic01 wrote: »

I'm not aware of misandry in the media being any more prevalent than misogyny, laws preventing unmarried fathers having parental rights are farcical, if you look at the gay adoption thread you will see I have criticised that.

Some of the posts on this thread suggest that men are sexual predators, I have disagreed with that.

Both men and women face discrimination, neither are acceptable. I honestly do not know anyone who would ignore a man in distress, some might not know what to say but they wouldn't use flippant comments like 'man up'.

Women are accused of being bitter too, I'm frequently told I'll end up a bitter, old woman because I don't want children. To me, that's amusing because it assumes a woman can only achieve fulfillment through procreating.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said there. Just trying to eloborate on what that other poster was saying. If I wanted to be pedantic, I could add the fear of peodophiles and how men are not allowed to sit next to children on certain airlines, but I don't want to turn it into a contest of which gender has it worse. And you're right about the women been accused of been bitter too, and the whole spinster thing also. That happens a lot.

shopaholic01

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said there. Just trying to eloborate on what that other poster was saying. If I wanted to be pedantic, I could add the fear of peodophiles and how men are not allowed to sit next to children on certain airlines, but I don't want to turn it into a contest of which gender has it worse. And you're right about the women been accused of been bitter too, and the whole spinster thing. That happens a lot.

Daveysil15, that poster was saying that a small minority of men may become rapists as a result of this marginalisation. That was my issue with it, it's justifying rape to a certain extent and saying that some men can't help it.

I don't think that's true, and it's a disservice to men to claim it is. I don't know any man who would agree with that logic.

BTW, I agree with your points, I'm not arguing with you, I was just looking for clarification from that poster.

shopaholic01

Czarcasm wrote: »

People are offended by words because words have meaning, so for example when I was growing up there was nothing queer about Noddy and Big Ears going for a gay stroll in the woods. Nowadays though that'd raise a few eyebrows!

Do any other words offend you? People were offended by Ernie and Bert sharing a room in Sesame Street, the notion of 2 puppets having gay sex doesn't bother me either.

Czarcasm wrote: »

The word rape itself isn't what causes offence, it's how that word is used, and in instances where it is trivialised, most people would still consider it offensive, as in the example I gave where my friend thought it was ok to say she wanted to rape a guy, but took offence when I asked how would she like if he were to rape her.

Have to disagree with you, C. I don't find words offensive.

Czarcasm wrote: »

If an American girl was leaving a bar in Ireland, and asked any of the men if they'd like a ride, but they'd have to squeeze in behind her fanny as she's only driving a rental and she can't handle the stick shift...

There wouldn't be a dry japs eye in the house! :pac:

But would they find any of it offensive?

shoos

suicide_circus wrote: »

this is rape culture:

http://m.rte.ie/news/touch/2013/0417/381928-un-envoy-rape/

anyone claiming there is a rape culture in Ireland is seriously deluded and needs to cop themselves on pronto.

In my experience, there is a worrying view of rape in Ireland so I don't think it's fair to post rape occurring in war-torn or 3rd world countries as a way of showing how great we have it.

I've seen men at parties specifically target the drunkest girl, sober men trying to bring a girl so drunk she couldn't keep her head raised to the toilet. My friend woke up with a hand up her top and a tongue in her mouth when she had passed out at a party. I was the person who put her to bed, she was out cold, and the boy who did it knew full well the state she was in. When she tried to talk about it the next day she felt too ashamed and embarrassed and I can actually completely understand why, I know I would have felt exactly the same. That's rape culture, Irish rape culture. I'd go into more detail as to why but I'm finding it a bit too upsetting right now. Boys in my college course were laughing one day when they had to lift I passing out drunk woman they have found in a club into a taxi, but not before one of the guys "had a minute" with her where he sexually assaulted her. This happened just a year ago or so in Dublin. About eight, pretty normal as lads go, boys in my course thought it was kinda wrong but obviously in a hilarious way and certainly not to the point the stopped him, took her off him, or ended their friendship with a guy who thinks its ok to do that.

I have more stories as well so I really don't think it's right to state there's no issue of rape culture in Ireland.

As for pinching, groping and slapping bottoms in nightclubs - while I don't know what I'd label it, I find it absolutely despicable.

There's a certain element of entitlement from the person who does it. Nothing makes my blood boil more than turning around to see the smug face of some horrible little man who, for reasons beyond me, thinks he has the right to touch me in a private sexual area.

Daveysil15

shoos wrote: »

In my experience, there is a worrying view of rape in Ireland so I don't think it's fair to post rape occurring in war-torn or 3rd world countries as a way of showing how great we have it.

I've seen men at parties specifically target the drunkest girl, sober men trying to bring a girl so drunk she couldn't keep her head raised to the toilet. My friend woke up with a hand up her top and a tongue in her mouth when she had passed out at a party. I was the person who put her to bed, she was out cold, and the boy who did it knew full well the state she was in. When she tried to talk about it the next day she felt too ashamed and embarrassed and I can actually completely understand why, I know I would have felt exactly the same. That's rape culture, Irish rape culture. I'd go into more detail as to why but I'm finding it a bit too upsetting right now. Boys in my college course were laughing one day when they had to lift I passing out drunk woman they have found in a club into a taxi, but not before one of the guys "had a minute" with her where he sexually assaulted her. This happened just a year ago or so in Dublin. About eight, pretty normal as lads go, boys in my course thought it was kinda wrong but obviously in a hilarious way and certainly not to the point the stopped him, took her off him, or ended their friendship with a guy who thinks its ok to do that.

I have more stories as well so I really don't think it's right to state there's no issue of rape culture in Ireland.

As for pinching, groping and slapping bottoms in nightclubs - while I don't know what I'd label it, I find it absolutely despicable.

There's a certain element of entitlement from the person who does it. Nothing makes my blood boil more than turning around to see the smug face of some horrible little man who, for reasons beyond me, thinks he has the right to touch me in a private sexual area.

Maybe he was so little he couldn't reach any higher.

Czarcasm

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Do any other words offend you?

But would they find any of it offensive?

Call over to mine some evening and I'll let you whisper filth in my ear all night, it might take a while before I'm offended though so you'd better bring a dictionary just in case!

carolmarx

suicide_circus wrote: »

this is rape culture:

http://m.rte.ie/news/touch/2013/0417/381928-un-envoy-rape/

anyone claiming there is a rape culture in Ireland is seriously deluded and needs to cop themselves on pronto.

With all due respect, I have to disagree.
I was raped last year. I ended up alone with a man I had accepted drinks off of and kissed in a night club. I expressly and uncategorically told him that I didn't want to have sex with him, and then he pressured me verbally and physically. Upon recounting the events to a person I thought was a good friend, I was informed that sure, it was my own fault and what did I expect...If you accept drinks off a man and end up alone with him, then it's reasonable for him to demand sex. THAT, is rape culture.

Madam_X

But is a minority of vile people with vile attitudes = a "culture"?
I'd agree the above culture was more prevalent in Ireland 40 years ago, but now we challenge it.

As for groping a stranger, no matter what gender the groper/gropee is, is ****ing rotten behaviour. Some guys say they like it, that it's not the same - but to me, it's equally skanky. As to what "scale" of seriousness: depends on the person, context etc. Man/woman gropes me in crowded pub, I tell them **** off; man/woman gropes me in a lift and nobody else there... far more sinister and potentially damaging. IMO its seriousness is more subjective than rape, but it's still despicable to have the attitude you can grab part of a stranger's body without their consent, no matter what context.

"Rape culture" is such an inflammatory, polarising term IMO though. It's bound to make men defensive, not because they don't take rape/sexual assault/sexual abuse seriously, but because the phrase implies that women in this culture are at the mercy of a predatory male population. Whether that's the intention or not, men who aren't misogynists/chauvinists/gropers/abusers (i.e. most men) are going to feel under fire on the basis of this term because it implies really frightening attitudes towards women are ingrained in our culture. They're there for sure, but I cannot agree they're ingrained in our culture in 2013.

It's like the "If it was a woman, it would be a different story" thing getting brought up when it's not relevant: even though the intention may not be hostility towards women, it can feel that way. So I think it's only fair to put yourself in a guy's shoes and consider how the term "rape culture" would affect you. Think of guys in terms of your partner/brothers/father/friend's/sons rather than as a faceless group.

Czarcasm

shoos wrote: »

I have more stories as well so I really don't think it's right to state there's no issue of rape culture in Ireland.

What you and others who use the term "rape culture" is that it implies that rape is a cultural phenomenon. It's not, not by a long shot, what it IS though, is a problem in society, that isn't helped by attaching the act of rape to an act like a slap on the àrse. Both are sexual assault, but what makes them different is the intention of the perpetrator.

Daveysil15

Madam_X wrote: »

But is a minority of vile people with vile attitudes = a "culture"?
I'd agree the above culture was more prevalent in Ireland 40 years ago, but now we challenge it.

As for groping a stranger, no matter what gender the groper/gropee is, is ****ing rotten behaviour. Some guys say they like it, that it's not the same - but to me, it's equally skanky. As to what "scale" of seriousness: depends on the person, context etc. Man/woman gropes me in crowded pub, I tell them **** off; man/woman gropes me in a lift and nobody else there... far more sinister and potentially damaging. IMO its seriousness is more subjective than rape, but it's still despicable to have the attitude you can grab part of a stranger's body without their consent, no matter what context.

If its a minority then no, its not. But it does seem to be more acceptable for women to grope men. Another poster commented on the crazy antics some women get up to on a hen night, grabbing lads balls etc. And sure its all just a bit of fun.

smcgiff

carolmarx wrote: »

With all due respect, I have to disagree.
I was raped last year. I ended up alone with a man I had accepted drinks off of and kissed in a night club. I expressly and uncategorically told him that I didn't want to have sex with him, and then he pressured me verbally and physically. Upon recounting the events to a person I thought was a good friend, I was informed that sure, it was my own fault and what did I expect...If you accept drinks off a man and end up alone with him, then it's reasonable for him to demand sex. THAT, is rape culture.

Sorry to hear that. I hope you at least warned your friends about him. People like him do exist.

It goes without saying you need a better friend.

However, if we use the term rape culture we are saying that rape is acceptable to the majority of people in Ireland, that it is our culture. I don't accept that.

Are there going to be cases where individuals have appaling judgements (like your friend) - yes, but that doesn't a culture make.

Pug160

carolmarx wrote: »

With all due respect, I have to disagree.
I was raped last year. I ended up alone with a man I had accepted drinks off of and kissed in a night club. I expressly and uncategorically told him that I didn't want to have sex with him, and then he pressured me verbally and physically. Upon recounting the events to a person I thought was a good friend, I was informed that sure, it was my own fault and what did I expect...If you accept drinks off a man and end up alone with him, then it's reasonable for him to demand sex. THAT, is rape culture.

With all due respect (and I'm sorry about what happened, btw) that was just one person's opinion, it wasn't 100,000 people simultaneously telling you it was your fault. How can this so called culture be measured and defined? Is it supposed to be males over a certain age, or males in general, or the overall population in general? I think it's a really lazy term and the people using it should go back to treating people as individuals.

Three Seasons

carolmarx wrote: »

With all due respect, I have to disagree.
I was raped last year. I ended up alone with a man I had accepted drinks off of and kissed in a night club. I expressly and uncategorically told him that I didn't want to have sex with him, and then he pressured me verbally and physically. Upon recounting the events to a person I thought was a good friend, I was informed that sure, it was my own fault and what did I expect...If you accept drinks off a man and end up alone with him, then it's reasonable for him to demand sex. THAT, is rape culture.

That's not rape culture, that's one particular man with those particular morals/ beliefs or lack thereof.

I don't think from that one encounter you should generalise a rape culture. That one particular man had rapist beliefs, not the culture.

carolmarx

Three Seasons wrote: »

That's not rape culture, that's one particular man with those particular morals/ beliefs or lack thereof.

I don't think from that one encounter you should generalise a rape culture. That one particular man had rapist beliefs, not the culture.

I take on board everyones opinion on the issue, it's a tenuous term that can mean so many different things to different people. But I personally believe attitudes like that are unfortunately common, depressingly enough my friend was a woman.

Pug160

carolmarx wrote: »

I take on board everyones opinion on the issue, it's a tenuous term that can mean so many different things to different people. But I personally believe attitudes like that are unfortunately common, depressingly enough my friend was a woman.

It seems a harsh attitude to have, but even so, it's still not promoting rape, although in some ways it's kind of condoning it (in certain circumstances). If you said no it was rape - there's no doubt in my mind.

Your friend was most likely thinking of lots of different scenarios such as a woman's guilt at having casual consenting sex, or some women's tendency of sometimes leading men on then wondering why the man is acting like a rabid dog when the word no is said. It's no excuse, but you'll have to have a conversation with her to find out why she thinks the way she does.

shopaholic01

carolmarx wrote: »

I take on board everyones opinion on the issue, it's a tenuous term that can mean so many different things to different people. But I personally believe attitudes like that are unfortunately common, depressingly enough my friend was a woman.

Would the comment have been more acceptable if your friend was male?

otto_26

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

well most of the "human trafficking" stats come from hardcore religious organisations or hardcore feminists, neither of which can really be trusted about anything

What about hardcore non-religious organisations could they be trusted to do the study?