Compulsory Pension Contributions?

kippy

antoobrien wrote: »

Those indirect taxes spent by PS workers are generated from private taxes, meaning that the PS is a cost to the economy to the tune of €18bn in wages and pensions.

What do people expect?
Services for free?

The Muppet

antoobrien wrote: »

Those indirect taxes spent by PS workers are generated from private taxes, meaning that the PS is a cost to the economy to the tune of €18bn in wages and pensions.

No they are not , Many Public Service workers pay direct taxes too, not all state income is generated from private sector taxes.

Education , Health, and Policing society etc is an expensive business, perhaps its time to charge directly for all these services. ie everyone pays directly for the services they and their dependants use. See how that would go down with those complaining about paying our teachers, Health Staff and Gardai etc under the current system.

antoobrien

The Muppet wrote: »

No they are not , Many Public Service workers pay direct taxes too, not all state income is generated from private sector taxes.

Every penny that has to go into the PS comes from private taxation, unless you think that the taxes generated by the approx €18bn cost of PS wages & pensions really does somehow manage to spin out multiples of it's worth in taxation.

kippy

antoobrien wrote: »

Every penny that has to go into the PS comes from private taxation, unless you think that the taxes generated by the approx €18bn cost of PS wages & pensions really does somehow manage to spin out multiples of it's worth in taxation.

Every penny that goes into the PS comes from TAXATION. Not just taxes that private sector pay. That much should be obvious even to the most blinkered of people.

And again, I'd ask, name a country that gets health, education, maintenance etc for "nothing".

antoobrien

kippy wrote: »

Every penny that goes into the PS comes from TAXATION. Not just taxes that private sector pay. That much should be obvious even to the most blinkered of people.

Do people actually believe we live in a communist country or something, where everything is due to government spending?:rolleyes:

kippy wrote: »

And again, I'd ask, name a country that gets health, education, maintenance etc for "nothing".

The simple fact of the matter is that without the private sector there is no money to pay for those public services among others, "that much should be obvious even to the most blinkered of people."

Now can we get back to the pensions please.

kippy

antoobrien wrote: »

Do people actually believe we live in a communist country or something, where everything is due to government spending?:rolleyes:



The simple fact of the matter is that without the private sector there is no money to pay for those public services among others, "that much should be obvious even to the most blinkered of people."

Now can we get back to the pensions please.

No,
You said that ALL PUBLIC sector wages are paid by PRIVATE sector taxpayers.
That is PLAINLY not correct.
Whats with the rolleyes?

Of course there HAS to be a private secotor, no one is arguing with that, but for a private sector to exist the relevant state funded services must also exist. One does not exist without the other, or one does not exist within a vacumn.

The Muppet

antoobrien wrote: »

Every penny that has to go into the PS comes from private taxation, unless you think that the taxes generated by the approx €18bn cost of PS wages & pensions really does somehow manage to spin out multiples of it's worth in taxation.

That's so obviously wrong. Have you forgotten that we borrow a few quid too?

ardmacha

Every penny that has to go into the PS comes from private taxation,

Typical overstated nonsense. Many public services have fees or charges and many sections are more or less self financing from these. Places like hospitals or universities have a significant proportion of their income that does not come from taxation. The problem with the present debate, is that even if a service is provided and is covered by non taxation sources this is entirely ignored in talking about the PS pay bill.

antoobrien

kippy wrote: »

No,
You said that ALL PUBLIC sector wages are paid by PRIVATE sector taxpayers.
That is PLAINLY not correct.
Whats with the rolleyes?

Tell me when did taxes generated from PS activities exceed the cost of the PS?

Oh wait it hasn't.

I've seen arguments that state that the PS tax goes to helping pay for services, training etc - this reducing the "real" cost of the PS bill, but funding itself - that's a new one.

Cody Pomeray

antoobrien wrote: »

Tell me when did taxes generated from PS activities exceed the cost of the PS?

Oh wait it hasn't.

I've seen arguments that state that the PS tax goes to helping pay for services, training etc - this reducing the "real" cost of the PS bill, but funding itself - that's a new one.

When a public sector worker is paid his wages every month, it is his or her decision entirely how he allocates that cash.

If he chooses to use the money for the purposes of investments in Swiss bonds or Kenyan flowers or Costa Rican bananas, then he is free to do so.

If he chooses, on the other hand, to spend the money on goods and services in Ireland, then he will pay taxes, charges and duties on these various goods and services, which constitute new tax contributions.

Once you extend a cash transfer, you lose control of it. It is no longer yours. It may regenerate itself, but it may not, depending on what the beneficiery decides to do.

Therefore it is quite correct to say that public sector workers who engage with the domestic economy in the provision of goods and services do partially fund the public sector.

kippy

antoobrien wrote: »

Tell me when did taxes generated from PS activities exceed the cost of the PS?

Oh wait it hasn't.

I've seen arguments that state that the PS tax goes to helping pay for services, training etc - this reducing the "real" cost of the PS bill, but funding itself - that's a new one.

No one said they did or they didn't for that matter, up until you did just there.......and indeed no one said it "funded" itself.
The point is, it is not JUST the tax take from the private sector that goes towards the cost of running the country - thankfully.

On topic, still havent seen enough detail about this pension contribution thing.