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  • 22-04-2013 12:09pm
    #1
    Rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭


    When, if ever, do folks think that all listings will contain a BER rating? If LLs don't have one and it is requested, will they just move on to the next set of tenants who don't care about it?
    Before anyone goes into the logistics of it and says BER doesn't really mean anything, it is actually a good way to gauge a property's energy efficiency if you are looking at rentals.


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    #2
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    My understanding is they are still talking to advertising companies to insure the ads contain the rating. The suggestions seems to be they won't allow ads without the rating soon.

    It still remains a pretty useless way to gauge energy efficiency on any property. It just isn't accurate enough.


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    #3
    Rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Rasmus


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    My understanding is they are still talking to advertising companies to insure the ads contain the rating. The suggestions seems to be they won't allow ads without the rating soon.

    It still remains a pretty useless way to gauge energy efficiency on any property. It just isn't accurate enough.

    Well you see, it is. It weeds out the Es and Gs from the Ds which is hugely significant.


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    #4
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Rasmus wrote: »
    Well you see, it is. It weeds out the Es and Gs from the Ds which is hugely significant.
    Except it doesn't. Es and Gs could cost as much to heat as Ds for the exact same sized house. It is that unreliable and calculated on vague assumptions.

    An old radiator may give as little as 20% of the heat it did when it was new but they use the figures as if the radiator was new.

    A well fitted wooden framed widow can be better than a badly fitted double glazed window. It won't effect the rating .


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    #5
    Rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Rasmus


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Except it doesn't. Es and Gs could cost as much to heat as Ds for the exact same sized house. It is that unreliable and calculated on vague assumptions.

    An old radiator may give as little as 20% of the heat it did when it was new but they use the figures as if the radiator was new.

    A well fitted wooden framed widow can be better than a badly fitted double glazed window. It won't effect the rating .

    What you say makes some sense of course, but do the people who check ratings not look into those examples? Do they not check badly fitted windows or age of radiators?


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    #6
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    It's an offence not to display a BER with a property for sale or for rent in an advertisement.
    OP complain to your local authority and the minister for environment about lax enforcement.


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    #7
    Rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Rasmus


    snubbleste wrote: »
    It's an offence not to display a BER with a property for sale or for rent in an advertisement.
    OP complain to your local authority and the minister for environment about lax enforcement.

    Yes I know but that doesn't help tenants right now - maybe it will in a year or so.


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    #8
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Rasmus wrote: »
    Yes I know but that doesn't help tenants right now - maybe it will in a year or so.
    If you don't complain, than the authorities will say nobody is complaining..so why bother enforcing it.


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    #9
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Rasmus wrote: »
    What you say makes some sense of course, but do the people who check ratings not look into those examples? Do they not check badly fitted windows or age of radiators?

    No.


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    #10
    Rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭Rasmus


    You must be right then, and all the legislation put it regarding BER must be crap. In my own experience, there are differences between rated properties.
    Thanks for derailing.


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    #11
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Rasmus wrote: »
    You must be right then, and all the legislation put it regarding BER must be crap. In my own experience, there are differences between rated properties.
    Thanks for derailing.


    You can tell people the same thing has different ratings and one is better than the other. Ask them about it later and low and behold the higher rated item gets a better review. The human mind can easily be fooled.

    BER is probably about 60% accurate but also really useless at gauging the cost of heating. It won't tell you about comfort either. You can keep a room a 20C but it doesn't mean there isn't a draught. Meanwhile a room at 19C with no draught will be much more comfortable.

    The BER is what it is but it has been sold as something much more useful than it actually is.


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    #12
    xper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭xper


    I think the BER report for a given property is much more useful than the rating itself which, as pointed, has a definite margin of error built in.

    So I wouldn't use BER ratings to filter out rental search results on DAFT or MyHome but once I started zeroing in on possible targets, I'd be reading the report (you can see them here: https://ndber.seai.ie/pass/ber/search.aspx). It can give you heads up on what to look for when you go to view the place or there may even be a single item in there that would rule out the place and save you wasting your time.

    I'd also consider it a small mark against my potential landlord if they haven't complied with the law in providing a BER at this stage of proceedings. Not a show stopper by any means but something to be considered.


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    #13
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,807 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Rasmus wrote: »
    What you say makes some sense of course, but do the people who check ratings not look into those examples? Do they not check badly fitted windows or age of radiators?

    No, not at all. They often don't even check the things that are questions on the bit of software that spews out the result, e.g. attic insulation or what number of lightbulbs are CFL. A lot of guessing goes in to the answers and a hell of a lot more guessing goes in to the calculation.

    By now, not having a BER just shows that the landlord isn't following the rules in that regard so you're left wondering if they're ignoring some others too.


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