Champions League - Bayern Munich v Barcelona First Leg

Turtwig

fortune wookiee wrote: »

I've never liked this 'they play the game the right way' argument.

The right way to play is to utilize the players you have at your disposal as best you can in order to win games.

It would be pretty baffling for Barcelona not to play the way they do given the talent of their squad.

I think there's a great interview with Iniesta on this. He basically said it was the way he knew best and obviously had worked. It's his philosophy, he'd fine it very difficult to change it but whether it's the best philosophy he doesn't know. He does believe though that it's the best philosophy for teams in Spain.

Gorilla Rising

Jernal wrote: »

I think there's a great interview with Iniesta on this. He basically said it was the way he knew best and obviously had worked. It's his philosophy, he'd fine it very difficult to change it but whether it's the best philosophy he doesn't know. He does believe though that it's the best philosophy for teams in Spain.

Yeah, the likes of him were kind of brought up with that philosophy. I mean, I think it's the right formula in which to develop players.

But it's harder for players who just don't have the capacity as they've not been brought through that way.

So, the likes of some current PL teams for example, just won't be able to adapt while picking up the points the need. They need to play to their strengths.

dfx-

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Diving and moaning about every decision is not playing the game 'the right way'.

They play attractive football, but not in the right spirit imo.

Barcelona can play dirty and nicely like anyone else. It's a winning spirit.

As for tonight, if that's the low point of the last ten years since Laporta came in..they haven't done too badly at all. If it re-energises the spirit of 03/04 after Davids, 08/09 with Eto'o, Messi and Henry and 2011 with Messi, Villa and Pedro, it'll serve some purpose.

Your Airbag

eagle eye wrote: »

I wasn't going to bother posting this but here goes. Anybody who is a lover of football could not possibly hate the current Barcelona. They have always played the game the right way and imposed their style on whoever got in their way.

They are still the greatest team to ever play the game.

I'm sorry but that is a very biased view. Barca played some lovely football in those formative years under Pep but their was plenty that followed to dislike when teams adjusted to counter them.

With winning can come some arrogance. The constant feigning of injury and swarming around refs at every minor decision for example. Once teams started to counter their possession football it lead to some very boring matches.

A good football match for me consists of two teams going at each other in an end to end you attack we attack battle. Sometimes watching Barca up against a team who had no option but to try and contain them by sitting very deep is not a pretty sight. Barca can have so much sterile possesion in these matches and they are very very boring to watch.

I am not saying they are anything other than a good team but they are not the best ever and an example of the perfect most beautiful football team ever.

They are weak in defense and physically they can be bullied.

I heard a good comment about how Pep changed Barca to use space so well because he knew he had the players who were small and quick and that in La Liga you are afforded more space. When teams started to adapt and get in their faces more you could see them struggle with the physicality of an opponent.

Barca would often over come this by tiring them out by retaining lots of possesion but Madrid looked to have found the perfect balance tactically when setting up against this season and now Bayern have followed suit.

Tonight Barca looked a million miles from a great team. I could not see a Madrid, Utd, Dortmund side allowing themselves to be bullied physically out of a game in this way. It was really men against boys.

You can't complain about decisions as Bayern should have had a first half penalty, they were just so powerfull and steam rolled Barca. Great teams don't allow this to happen to them many times a season as Madrid and Bayern have now done. I expect Bayern to out muscle them in Camp Nou also.

Blatter

Mario Gomez had a total of 12 touches in this game and won 0 aerial duels.

He has a knack of scoring which is a huge asset in itself but offers next to nothing in general play.

Turtwig

Blatter wrote: »

Mario Gomez had a total of 12 touches in this game and won 0 aerial duels.

He has a knack of scoring which is a huge asset in itself but offers next to nothing in general play.

Ahh I love him. Didn't he score that vital goal in the home leg against Madrid last season too?

He just. . .scores.

Red Crow

dfx- wrote: »

Barcelona can play dirty and nicely like anyone else. It's a winning spirit.

As for tonight, if that's the low point of the last ten years since Laporta came in..they haven't done too badly at all. If it re-energises the spirit of 03/04 after Davids, 08/09 with Eto'o, Messi and Henry and 2011 with Messi, Villa and Pedro, it'll serve some purpose.

Yep, we all know that Barca will be back next year. They need to sign a solid CB. The lack of investment in that area over the past number of years has cost them. They could also use investment in other areas just to freshen the squad up.

I don't think the combo of Pedro and Sanchez out wide is going to scare anyone. Thiago and Cesc not integrating into the team has also not helped but when Messi isn't on form this team suffers badly.

Blatter

Jernal wrote: »

Ahh I love him. Didn't he score that vital goal in the home leg against Madrid last season too?

He just. . .scores.

Yep, lethal finisher. (Apart from the CL final last year)

Turtwig

Eli Manning wrote: »

Yep, we all know that Barca will be back next year. They need to sign a solid CB. The lack of investment in that area over the past number of years has cost them. They could also use investment in other areas just to freshen the squad up.

I don't think the combo of Pedro and Sanchez out wide is going to scare anyone. Thiago and Cesc not integrating into the team has also not helped but when Messi isn't on form this team suffers badly.

Now, now, haven't you heard of the Alex Song project. He's going to be the next CB.:rolleyes:

(I'm being dead serious here apparently that was one of the reasons they bought him.)

Blatter wrote: »

Yep, lethal finisher. (Apart from the CL final last year)

(Everyone is entitled to an off-day.)

Montroseee

Mario Gomez is a (slightly) better version of Javier Hernandez.

dfx-

Eli Manning wrote: »

Yep, we all know that Barca will be back next year. They need to sign a solid CB. The lack of investment in that area over the past number of years has cost them. They could also use investment in other areas just to freshen the squad up.

The last investment at CB was Chygrynskiy. Sandro Rosell is the man holding the pursestrings and he is ready to marry Neymar. He'd buy a CB as an afterthought and that will not end well.

Your Airbag

Blatter

Montroseee wrote: »

Mario Gomez is a (slightly) better version of Javier Hernandez.

I don't think he is, I'd have Hernandez over him.

Hernandez will at least press and stretch defenses with his pace as well as score lots of goals. Gomez is just a lump that scores lots of goals.

Montroseee

Your Airbag wrote: »

Is that Ramos or Khedira with Mourinho?

Turtwig

Montroseee wrote: »

Is that Ramos or Khedira with Mourinho?

Ramos.

monkey9

I always find the hatred towards Barcelona a little weird. They're a superb football team who play the game beautifully.

People's problems seem to be that they surround the ref and feign injury. Fair enough, but every team does that.

As far as i can see, Barca match that reaction and then outplay them when the football bit happens. But Barca are so good they get highlighted more.

klose

Blatter wrote: »

Mario Gomez had a total of 12 touches in this game and won 0 aerial duels.

He has a knack of scoring which is a huge asset in itself but offers next to nothing in general play.

I think i read hed less touches in the game v holland at the euros and he scored two goals that day, he came off the bench and scored a hat trick last last week and only had 7 or 8 touches. He always just scores :pac:

wonski

Blatter wrote: »

Mario Gomez had a total of 12 touches in this game and won 0 aerial duels.

He has a knack of scoring which is a huge asset in itself but offers next to nothing in general play.

He's a striker ffs

Turtwig

wonski wrote: »

He's a striker ffs

One lazy ass one, by the sounds of things. :P

kryogen

Montroseee wrote: »

Mario Gomez is a (slightly) better version of Javier Hernandez.

You know, I have thought about this for a few minutes now, and I just can't agree with it. Hernandez has improved his general play this year and I would have him on my team ahead of Gomez

Blatter

wonski wrote: »

He's a striker ffs

No shít man!

wonski

Blatter wrote: »

No shít man!

Well, you are the one who said that "he offers next to nothing in general play". In general play all of his goals were from close to very close range, he is fully dependant on the rest of the team, but when he gets the ball, he scores. What else would you like him to do?
Not a big fan of him meself, and was surprised to see him tonight.

Roben was excellent, deserves to be in first team, even passed a ball which isn't typical for him...

Turtwig

wonski wrote: »

Well, you are the one who said that "he offers next to nothing in general play". In general play all of his goals were from close to very close range, he is fully dependant on the rest of the team, but when he gets the ball, he scores. What else would you like him to do?
Not a big fan of him meself, and was surprised to see him tonight.

Roben was excellent, deserves to be in first team, even passed a ball which isn't typical for him...

Indeed, this Guardian comment truly deserves to be echoed.

Who was that hard working, unselfish, defensively astute baldy on the right wing and what did he do with Arjen Robben?

Blatter

wonski wrote: »

Well, you are the one who said that "he offers next to nothing in general play". In general play all of his goals were from close to very close range, he is fully dependant on the rest of the team, but when he gets the ball, he scores. What else would you like him to do?
Not a big fan of him meself, and was surprised to see him tonight.

When I say he offers next to nothing general play I'm not talking about his goalscoring in general play, I'm talking about his inability to link up, create, drag defenders out of position etc.

He is what he is, I don't expect him to be anything else as he clearly doesn't have the skills for it. Fair play to him for making the most out of what ability he has. I'm just commenting on it because it is unusual (and a hindrance, sometimes) for a top team to start with a striker like that these days.

Blatter

Robben kind of shows himself up with performances like that tonight. What an incredible talent, if only he showed that level of commitment and passion in every game and not just the biggest game of the season...

Moneymaker

It's games like this that Barca miss Abidal, Keita and other solid but unspectacular players that you need in games like these.

Wasn't a poor player in red and gold on that pitch. They all performed and they brutally exposed Barca's shortcomings.

Barca just need to wrap Messi in cotton wool and hope for a miracle now. Then rebuild in the summer and sign some defenders. And a striker to help Messi out. Maybe a certain obnoxious Uruguyan?

jive

Morzadec wrote: »

Massively impressed with the work rate off the ball and quality on it of Ribery, Muller and Robben.

Can any team in world football beat that attacking midfield trio? I don't think so.

Really? You think that midfield trio are that good? Robben can't even hold a consistent place in the team. Ribery isn't that good and neither is Muller, imo. I thought Ribery was having one of the best games I've ever seen him have tonight but even then he was doing some stupid things. For what it's worth, I think Robben is one of the best players on the planet when he's arsed (as he was tonight).

Madrid, Chelsea, Barca and to a lesser extent Dortmund would all give that trio a run for there money. I'd have Ozil, Ronaldo and Di Maria ahead of them 3 every day of the week.

dfx-

Moneymaker wrote: »

Barca just need to wrap Messi in cotton wool and hope for a miracle now. Then rebuild in the summer and sign some defenders. And a striker to help Messi out. Maybe a certain obnoxious Uruguyan?

Suarez would be an outstanding signing...swap deal for Sanchez.

Moneymaker

jive wrote: »

Really? You think that midfield trio are that good? Robben can't even hold a consistent place in the team. Ribery isn't that good and neither is Muller, imo. I thought Ribery was having one of the best games I've ever seen him have tonight but even then he was doing some stupid things. For what it's worth, I think Robben is one of the best players on the planet when he's arsed (as he was tonight).

Madrid, Chelsea, Barca and to a lesser extent Dortmund would all give that trio a run for there money. I'd have Ozil, Ronaldo and Di Maria ahead of them 3 every day of the week.

Muller is having a brilliant season. He's developed into a great player.

Kroos, Muller and Mandzuckic is a pretty fearsome trio. Add in backup like Gotze, Ribery, Gomes, Robbem and Shaqiri to that. And Schweinsteiger can also play higher up the pitch as he did to great effect in the 2nd half tonight.

jive

Moneymaker wrote: »

Muller is having a brilliant season. He's developed into a great player.

Kroos, Muller and Mandzuckic is a pretty fearsome trio. Add in backup like Gotze, Ribery, Gomes, Robbem and Shaqiri to that. And Schweinsteiger can also play higher up the pitch as he did to great effect in the 2nd half tonight.

I'm not denying they have a great squad I just think there are better attacking trios out there. Gotze is a great addition though and with him in that lineup they'll be even more formidable.

kryogen

As an attacking trio you can give me Di Maria, Ozil and Ronaldo over them any day

munchkin_utd

Jernal wrote: »

In a slight defence of their slogan. They're not just a football club. They're handball, basketball, rugby (yes rugby) and a Catalan cultural identity.

I know, some fanbhoys egg that slogan though for other reasons and frankly they deserve every comeuppance they get. I don't think it's fair to critise the club itself though for it.

You would indeed think that they were playing rugby last night with the idea in their head that its a possesion game and your chances will come if you run through the phases. Bayern on the other hand realise that the game is about getting the roung thing(ball) into the rectangluar thing (goal) and all the arsing in the world in midfield doesnt count in the end.

It was a deserved win by a Bayern team missing 3of their best players against a Barca team who essentially cannot function when missing just one player, Messi.

And any chat about Barcelona coming back bigger and better next year to dominate Europe again is baloney as they will then face an even stronger Bayern team who have smashed the record for a german player by poaching Götze from Dormund and with Guardiola at the helm as manager they will only progress more.
Barca will have to raise their game and raise it again. Oh, and build a squad rather than just a first 11 10 plus messi.

sid lowe has a great article on the game and mentions the 2nd leg, which shows that Bayern dont fear being on the road and they are tight at the back:

The only glimmer of hope for Barcelona is that they have won 15 of their 16 La Liga games at the Camp Nou and put four past Milan a couple of rounds back. These Bayern players, however, are not exactly intrepid travellers. Their away record in the Bundesliga stands at 14 wins and one draw from 15 games, 37 goals scored and three conceded. Above all, there is the sense of a Bayern team utterly determined to elevate themselves above the most revered club side of the last decade.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/23/bayern-munich-barcelona-champions-league

The loss of the champions league last year has really really stung Bayern (akin to utd loosing the premiership last year) and as a club and a team thats a situation that they have to rectify.

And seriously, can that Barca defense keep a clean sheet next time? Because 1 goal for Bayern means no extra time and Barca need 6 for a clear win.
Thats just not going to happen.

SlickRic

they still won the passing.

gosplan

I get that it's hard to break up a winning formula but Barca should have signed soneone like Thiago Silva instead if Song.

They knew that Puyol would miss a lot of the season and at this level, teams like Bayern will show up inexperienced defenders and mids playing out if position.

jmayo

Eli Manning wrote: »

Yep, we all know that Barca will be back next year. They need to sign a solid CB. The lack of investment in that area over the past number of years has cost them. They could also use investment in other areas just to freshen the squad up.

I don't think the combo of Pedro and Sanchez out wide is going to scare anyone. Thiago and Cesc not integrating into the team has also not helped but when Messi isn't on form this team suffers badly.

They also need a proper more orthodox striker so that they can change tactics when plan A doesn't work.

monkey9 wrote: »

I always find the hatred towards Barcelona a little weird. They're a superb football team who play the game beautifully.

People's problems seem to be that they surround the ref and feign injury. Fair enough, but every team does that.

As far as i can see, Barca match that reaction and then outplay them when the football bit happens. But Barca are so good they get highlighted more.

It is a matter of opinion if the way they play is beautiful.
Some of us like end to end attacking with lots of shots on target and not endless passing waiting for the ideal opportunity.
They stifle teams which means to truly counteract them usually the opposition must become very defensive.

And also maybe some of us are just tired of listening to some Barca fans bleating on forever that they are the greatest team ever and seem to have invented proper football.
Classy attractive football and great teams existed before this Barca side and indeed before the CL.

Also can anyone tell us what the offical on the end line actually does ?
One of them last he must be fooking blind to have missed Muller bodycheck Alba.

cson

Just popping in to say Robben's goal was one of the best I've seen this season. Sublime individual brilliance.

cson

dfx- wrote: »

Suarez would be an outstanding signing...

As if people didn't hate Barcelona enough already on here... :pac:

munchkin_utd

jmayo wrote: »

<snip>
Also can anyone tell us what the offical on the end line actually does ?
One of them last he must be fooking blind to have missed Muller bodycheck Alba.

indeed, and the 2 first half penalties for handball for Bayern that they couldnt have missed either.

jmayo

munchkin_utd wrote: »

indeed, and the 2 first half penalties for handball for Bayern that they couldnt have missed either.

I missed the first half so can't comment.
I was just using that one blatant example of their ineffectual performances.
Week in week out those officals are standing there like gomless eejits and it appears not ever contributing anything to the ref.
They never seem to get fouls right, they never seem to get corners/goalkicks right.
What fooking use are they ?
Either that or they all have left their guide dogs in the tunnel.

SlickRic

cson wrote: »

Just popping in to say Robben's goal was one of the best I've seen this season. Sublime individual brilliance.

tbf, it wouldn't have happened if Alba hadn't been Mullered though.

LordSutch

Quick question: How many of the Bayern Munich team playing last night are German?

DubDani

LordSutch wrote: »

Quick question: How many of the Bayern Munich team playing last night are German?

6.

6 Germans, 1 French, 1 Spanish, 1 Austrian, 1 Brazilian, 1 Dutch

LordSutch

DubDani wrote: »

6.

6 Germans, 1 French, 1 Spanish, 1 Austrian, 1 Brazilian, 1 Dutch

Many thanks, I only ask because Eileen Dunne on the RTE news last night said that the Germans had beaten . . . . . . .
and I thought surely the team is not just made up of Germans!

ROCKMAN

jmayo wrote: »

I missed the first half so can't comment.
I was just using that one blatant example of their ineffectual performances.
Week in week out those officals are standing there like gomless eejits and it appears not ever contributing anything to the ref.
They never seem to get fouls right, they never seem to get corners/goalkicks right.
What fooking use are they ?
Either that or they all have left their guide dogs in the tunnel.

Totally agree ....


Mate says that their only role is "if the ball has crossed the line or not "...
And thats why they never seem to get involved...

Anyone know ?? (link maybe)

munchkin_utd

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Mate says that their only role is "if the ball has crossed the line or not "...
And thats why they never seem to get involved...

Anyone know ?? (link maybe)

You mate is wrong, at least on paper they should be doing more than that

"In essence," a joint statement by world football body FIFA and UEFA said on Friday, "the additional assistant referees will provide two extra pairs of eyes to monitor the game and ensure that the Laws of the Game are upheld, informing the referee of incidents of any kind that he may otherwise have missed, particularly in key areas of the field like the penalty area and its surroundings. The referee will remain in sole charge of the match and the only match official with decision-making powers."

from the UEFA website
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/refereeing/news/newsid=879407.html

gimmick

If that is their only job they cannot even do that right. England Vs Ukraine at Euro 2012 Ukraine had one a yard over, and the official just stood there looking at it and did feck all.

ROCKMAN

munchkin_utd wrote: »

You mate is wrong, at least on paper they should be doing more than that


from the UEFA website
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/refereeing/news/newsid=879407.html

Thank you ,,,
So they really are not doing their job ,Have yet to see any of them get involved or help..
Waste of space.....

munchkin_utd

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Thank you ,,,
So they really are not doing their job ,Have yet to see any of them get involved or help..
Waste of space.....

+100%

I cannot remember one single instance that they ever helped a ref to make a correct decision.

Turtwig

The goalmouth dude isn't a bad idea. He does have a very good vantage point. Unfortunately he doesn't tend to have very good confidence or authority. I only recall one game where it was clearly the assistant behind the goal who made the call. And such is their legacy so far I can't remember what that game was. Anyone have examples of that official taking a proactive decision?

In their defence they do communicate by radio there is no hand gesturing.

dfx-

cson wrote: »

As if people didn't hate Barcelona enough already on here... :pac:

May as well convert the rest:pac: