Champions League - Bayern Munich v Barcelona First Leg

Turtwig

munchkin_utd wrote: »

You would indeed think that they were playing rugby last night with the idea in their head that its a possesion game and your chances will come if you run through the phases. Bayern on the other hand realise that the game is about getting the roung thing(ball) into the rectangluar thing (goal) and all the arsing in the world in midfield doesnt count in the end.

It was a deserved win by a Bayern team missing 3of their best players against a Barca team who essentially cannot function when missing just one player, Messi.

And any chat about Barcelona coming back bigger and better next year to dominate Europe again is baloney as they will then face an even stronger Bayern team who have smashed the record for a german player by poaching Götze from Dormund and with Guardiola at the helm as manager they will only progress more.
Barca will have to raise their game and raise it again. Oh, and build a squad rather than just a first 11 10 plus messi.

sid lowe has a great article on the game and mentions the 2nd leg, which shows that Bayern dont fear being on the road and they are tight at the back:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/23/bayern-munich-barcelona-champions-league

The loss of the champions league last year has really really stung Bayern (akin to utd loosing the premiership last year) and as a club and a team thats a situation that they have to rectify.

And seriously, can that Barca defense keep a clean sheet next time? Because 1 goal for Bayern means no extra time and Barca need 6 for a clear win.
Thats just not going to happen.

If only things were so simple. . .

When I first saw Barca's intense pressing game. I couldn't think of a team that matched them on that category. That wasn't to say that teams didn't press, but no team had pressed quite like them - Barca were quite simply incredibly fit. Last fortnight against Juve. Bayern played at a tempo that was frightening at times. The question again comes has there even been a team that pressed like them. Up until last night, Bayern had averaged 56% possession over all their games. A figure not too dismiliar to Barca's premier season with Guardiola. And in terms of being the team in the best physical shape in Europe I think Bayern have showed that no question. Barca couldn't live with them and unlike their tepid performance against Milan they did actually try passing with some tempo but they couldn't and more importantly they couldn't even make inroads up the field. I don't think that was by Barca's own volition. Bayern hounded them like dogs. But for the first time in a long time it was Barca who tired first. Normally teams press them intensely but eventually tire. Bayern didn't. They kept their pressing efficient and streamlined but even so, approaching the end of the first half their was a noticeable drop. The second, and more importantly, third goals couldn't have come at better times.
In game like last night a player like Zlatan, one who could hold up the ball or lay it off for supporting runners would have been ideal for Barca. I also think Cesc should have played he was part of Barca's strongest team this season and himself and Iniesta were able to work space where really it shouldn't even have been possible. :eek:

The game is a lot more nuanced than just hitting the ball into the rectangle.
Suppose for a moment all the Bayern players lined up on the respective touchlines. Would the Barca players still resort to passing around or would they go straight for goal? I don't recall Bayern playing one hopeless long ball (that isn't to say they didn't, I just don't recall it.:o). Bayern played very intelligently and, it must be said, very cynically at times. But, I think it's unfair to Bayern to think part of the reason they lost is Barca weren't playing balls into the box. Barca didn't even get close to their box.

That said, lately Barca have stagnated their passing and lost that intelligence and guile but some of that is also down to teams figuring the out - Matching their fitness and exploiting their weaknesses. Barca, of course, also created weaknesses. They're not as fit as they used to be,their defence at set pieces is non existent and they're clearly over reliant on Messi to carry them. Though the british media liked to portray otherwise - probably down to their idiotic misunderstanding of zonal marking - under Guardiola Barca had one of the best domestic and European records when it came to conceding goals from set pieces. In the 2009/2010 season they set almost set a record for conceding the least amount of domestic goals from set pieces (Zlatan probably helped a lot there.). Peps system was brutally simple : Position the tallest four players and Puyol in the areas most likely to concede a direct goal. Place the small guys in the areas around them to sweep up. Once the corner is played and the initial ball is headed play the offside trap and possibly attempt to launch a counter. Their problem last night was with the exception of Pique no one else was able to compete aerially and once Bayern figured out/just got the ball past Pique's positioning Barca's defence was gone for walkies.


Regarding the clean sheets. Up until last night Bayern and Barca had both averaged one goal per game in Europe this season. I suspect Bayern's is now slightly less than unity again but their defensive record in Europe isn't on par with their domestic one. Nor is Barcelona's! Though, perhaps in Barca's case that's a very good thing. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't have made it this far!

The point is though we can't say yet whether Bayern will dominate for years. If teams match their physicality and athletic ability where will their style take them. Barca's possession game required a considerable focus on tactics and defensive philosophies. If Bayern's only trait is athleticism then it won't be long before the football world catches up. Guardiola couldn't be joining them at a better time imo. Although I would loves to have seen Heynckes keep them for another season. He has shown time and again to be fantastic manager and tactician.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Your Airbag wrote: »

Barca can have so much sterile possesion in these matches and they are very very boring to watch.

I really hate when people pedal this shíte. It's one of those things that annoys me a lot.

When team's 'park the bus' against Barca, how can anyone call Barca the boring team?? Yes, they have a possession game, but the possession game isn't as effective, nor as nearly pretty when the opposing team have 11 players behind the ball. Barca were probably the most exciting team to watch before teams started adopting such negative, anti-football (and that's what they are) tactics.

I don't know what people expect Barca to do, give the ball to the opposition or something??

sea_monkey

anti-football tactic lol

tactic to stop opposing team scoring is anti-football when there's two objectives in football.
Score and don't concede.

It was shown last night that the majority of their team play in the line of the ball or behind the ball.
Messi being injured meant all those players didn't have an outlet. So yeah, 64% possession and no goals IS BORING.

Turtwig

sea_monkey wrote: »

anti-football tactic lol

tactic to stop opposing team scoring is anti-football when there's two objectives in football.
Score and don't concede.

It was shown last night that the majority of their team play in the line of the ball or behind the ball.
Messi being injured meant all those players didn't have an outlet. So yeah, 64% possession and no goals IS BORING.

Boring? Last's night game was fascinating on so many levels.

sea_monkey

Jernal wrote: »

Boring? Last's night game was fascinating on so many levels.

only when bayern got the ball

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

sea_monkey wrote: »

anti-football tactic lol

tactic to stop opposing team scoring is anti-football when there's two objectives in football.
Score and don't concede.

It was shown last night that the majority of their team play in the line of the ball or behind the ball.
Messi being injured meant all those players didn't have an outlet. So yeah, 64% possession and no goals IS BORING.

I want to clear this up, I mean anti-football in the sense that it stops football.

Also, I am NOT, in any way, shape or form, referring to Bayern's tactics last night. I didn't even see the game. I was referring to an ignorant generalisation.

If they were boring last night, so be it, they were boring. For the vast majority of their games however, it's the opposition who are boring. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing, when I say negative, I mean tactics that don't promote 'attractive' football. I am perfectly okay with team adopting such tactics, hell, if I was a manager against Barca I'd shamelessly do the same.

ahnowbrowncow

THFC wrote: »

I really hate when people pedal this shíte. It's one of those things that annoys me a lot.

When team's 'park the bus' against Barca, how can anyone call Barca the boring team?? Yes, they have a possession game, but the possession game isn't as effective, nor as nearly pretty when the opposing team have 11 players behind the ball. Barca were probably the most exciting team to watch before teams started adopting such negative, anti-football (and that's what they are) tactics.

I don't know what people expect Barca to do, give the ball to the opposition or something??

Possession football is boring to watch for a lot of people, I'd far prefer to watch Bayern than Barcelona. Actually I'd prefer to watch any direct attacking footballing team than Barcelona, especially when Messi is not on form.
66% possession and only 3 attempts compared to Bayern's 34% with 12 attempts speaks volumes about which is the more exciting football to watch.

Knex*

SlickRic wrote: »

tbf, it wouldn't have happened if Alba hadn't been Mullered though.

Nicely done

Your Airbag

THFC wrote: »

I really hate when people pedal this shíte. It's one of those things that annoys me a lot.

When team's 'park the bus' against Barca, how can anyone call Barca the boring team?? Yes, they have a possession game, but the possession game isn't as effective, nor as nearly pretty when the opposing team have 11 players behind the ball. Barca were probably the most exciting team to watch before teams started adopting such negative, anti-football (and that's what they are) tactics.

I don't know what people expect Barca to do, give the ball to the opposition or something??

Anti football. Oh dear.

One of the worst posts I've read in a long time, missing the point and stupid in equal measure. Firstly I said Barca are a great team but they are only great when teams allow them to play the way they want.

What do you expect the oppostion to do? Let Barca have as much of the ball as possible. Teams with nowhere near the same budget or quality youth system have to adapt. Barca beat Madrid 5-0 because they were allowed to play how Barca wanted, what chance do the lesser teams have? They don't have the players to adopt tiki taka or the years of financial investent behind them that Barca do, ala the Cruyff years and Pep in his transition from player to coach. What a biased and narrow minded view off football you have. Unless the big budget super clubs are allowed to play their game at will its anti football, lol.

You say Barca were the most exciting team before teams started adopting such anti football tactics. It shoes how little you understand football, Yes a team with nowhere near the same amout of cash to throw around on players, coaches and a youth system are anti football for adjusting tactics to try and contain Barca :rolleyes:

THFC wrote: »

I want to clear this up, I mean anti-football in the sense that it stops football.

Also, I am NOT, in any way, shape or form, referring to Bayern's tactics last night. I didn't even see the game. I was referring to an ignorant generalisation.

There is nothing ignorant about my statement. It has happened many times to Barca and is a fact. When contained by lesser teams they have no plan B, take the Celtic game this year. Wegner even used the exact same phrase but hey I guess he must must be ignorant to how beautiful Barca are. Maybe Celtic and Arsenal should have dropped such anti football philosophies could have still won going all out attack.

Lately Madrid, Bayern and Chelsea with ten men have shown how to deal with Barca. There was nothing beautiful or exciting about Barca last night or the 4-5 times Madrid played and beat them this season. Get in their faces and they cant handle it, last night they looked like whimps and were overpowered by the physical side of the game when they were not allowed to play their game. It wasn't only in defense it was all over the park. Martinez completely nullified Iniesta and Messi hardly had a touch when his supply line was cut off. They never looked dangerous once.

This is one of the most ignorant views you can have. You have to stand off Iniesta, Messi and the rest of the Barca squad and watch them execute their "exciting brand of footabll" even if you are a lesser team or its anit-football. Absolutely ridiculous. Its as about anti football as what Bayern or Madrid ie its not at all, they forced their game and played to their strenghts but those lesser teams don't have Ronaldos or Robbens so they are anti football.

Celtic, Rubin Kazan and co shame on you :rolleyes:

Seaneh

I really can't believe certain Barca fans can't just accept that Barca were simply played off the park and completely dominated by a superior team last night.

Barca are a great team, and they have great players, but last night between players missing and players with niggling injuries, Barca weren't on the same level as Bayern and just couldn't live with the tempo and physicality that Bayern played at.

Would a fully fit Barca have lsot 4-0? I doubt it.
Would they have won? I doubt that too. Bayern were epic, it's one of the best team performances I've ever seen in the CL. They are the best team in Europe this year by a ways and proved it last night by spanking the team who've dominated Europe for 6-7 years now.

Barca need to regroup and focus on next year, rebuild their squad a bit, improve their defence and they will be back on top next year I reckon, but this year they haven't been themselves for the second half of the season. The squad is very shallow and when a handful of players get injured they had issues with replacing them.


Messi having a rotter didn't help either, he shouldn't have even been on the pitch, he's only about 60% fit.

Your Airbag

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Possession football is boring to watch for a lot of people, I'd far prefer to watch Bayern than Barcelona. Actually I'd prefer to watch any direct attacking footballing team than Barcelona.

Exactly. Give me nd end to end game anyday. When a team defends well Barca will hang onto it and hang onto it, knock it out to the wing, not cross, play it central again, probe the defense, its not working, back to the wing, maybe a cross, now central again, probe them, its not wroking, they are closing us down, out wide again, we'll try a cross this time and its headed clear.

I have seen a lot of Barca games pan out like this, sometimes they find a way through and even then there is nothing exciting about it. Its painful to watch.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Your Airbag wrote: »

Anti football. Oh dear.

One of the worst posts I've read in a long time, missing the point and stupid in equal measure. Firstly I said Barca are a great team but they are only great when teams allow them to play the way they want.

What do you expect the oppostion to do? Let Barca have as much of the ball as possible. Teams with nowhere near the same budget or quality youth system have to adapt. Barca beat Madrid 5-0 because they were allowed to play how Barca wanted, what chance do the lesser teams have? They don't have the players to adopt tiki taka or the years of financial investent behind them that Barca do, ala the Cruyff years and Pep in his transition from player to coach. What a biased and narrow minded view off football you have. Unless the big budget super clubs are allowed to play their game at will its anti football, lol.

You say Barca were the most exciting team before teams started adopting such anti football tactics. It shoes how little you understand football, Yes a team with nowhere near the same amout of cash to throw around on players, coaches and a youth system are anti football for adjusting tactics to try and contain Barca :rolleyes:






There is nothing ignorant about my statement. It has happened many times to Barca and is a fact. When contained by lesser teams they have no plan B, take the Celtic game this year. Wegner even used the exact same phrase but hey I guess he must must be ignorant to how beautiful Barca are. Maybe Celtic and Arsenal should have dropped such anti football philosophies could have still won going all out attack.

Lately Madrid, Bayern and Chelsea with ten men have shown how to deal with Barca. There was nothing beautiful or exciting about Barca last night or the 4-5 times Madrid played and beat them this season. Get in their faces and they cant handle it, last night they looked like whimps and were overpowered by the physical side of the game when they were not allowed to play their game. It wasn't only in defense it was all over the park. Martinez completely nullified Iniesta and Messi hardly had a touch when his supply line was cut off. They never looked dangerous once.

This is one of the most ignorant views you can have. You have to stand off Iniesta, Messi and the rest of the Barca squad and watch them execute their "exciting brand of footabll" even if you are a lesser team or its anit-football. Absolutely ridiculous. Its as about anti football as what Bayern or Madrid ie its not at all, they forced their game and played to their strenghts but those lesser teams don't have Ronaldos or Robbens so they are anti football.

Celtic, Rubin Kazan and co shame on you :rolleyes:

Right, you do realise that post pretty much completely backed up my point? My point being that Barca aren't boring, rather the teams that play against them adopt 'boring' tactics.

Also, if you bothered to read my posts you would have read the bit where I said I'm not condemning those tactics, my exact words were "I am perfectly okay with team adopting such tactics, hell, if I was a manager against Barca I'd shamelessly do the same." Did you just choose to ignore that bit?

As for that last paragraph, I'm honestly baffled.

And again, I did not get to see the Bayern - Barca game.

And one last time, just to reiterate, my point is that Barca aren't boring, it's the fact that opposition teams are forced to adopt defensive tactics. I am not condemning those tactics.

Your Airbag

THFC wrote: »

Right, you do realise that post pretty much completely backed up my point? My point being that Barca aren't boring, rather the teams that play against them adopt 'boring' tactics.

Also, if you bothered to read my posts you would have read the bit where I said I'm not condemning those tactics, my exact words were "I am perfectly okay with team adopting such tactics, hell, if I was a manager against Barca I'd shamelessly do the same." Did you just choose to ignore that bit?

As for that last paragraph, I'm honestly baffled.

And again, I did not get to see the Bayern - Barca game.

And one last time, just to reiterate, my point is that Barca aren't boring, it's the fact that opposition teams are forced to adopt defensive tactics. I am not condemning those tactics.

No it does not, not in any way but whatever you need to tell yourself. A few posters have said how they find the Barca high possesion style boring. Not the opposition. Barca. They are the source of matches developing this way because they dictate the tempo they have the majority of the ball.

When Barca cant find a way through and have no plan B they are very boring.

You said you have no problem with these tactics but also sadi what do ppl expect Barca to do, just give the ball to the opposition? Well what do you expect the opposition to do, not defend when they don't have the same calibre of players and let Barca wipe the floor with them?

Each and every team is under pressure from fans and owners to win or at least do their best to get a result. If Barca are going to come out and hang onto the ball as much as they can then they are the origin of the opposition team needing to defend and giving us this type of games, the alternative of a lesser team just stadning off them would suit Barca but is not a competitve game

Its a blinkered and unrealistic view to look at football in term of which brand is most pleasing to the eye. There is a business element to it.

Yes you followed up your post by saying you have no problem with teams adopting these tactics after you branded it anti-football against exciting football in the post before.

Barca do not play exciting pleasing to the eye football all the time against the big and small clubs. They can be very tiresome to watch as its the one approach with no plan b that leads to these types of games.

At other times they can be dazzeling when they are given the run of the pitch.

Did you think Celtics approach was boring when they played them? They beat them and almost got a point away from home by being organised and tactically astute not boring. The oppositions are not there to make sure Barca are allowed to entertain their fans with tikki takka.

Turtwig

Your Airbag wrote: »

No it does not, not in any way but whatever you need to tell yourself. A few posters have said how they find the Barca high possesion style boring. Not the opposition. Barca. They are the source of matches developing this way because they dictate the tempo they have the majority of the ball.

When Barca cant find a way through and have no plan B they are very boring.

You said you have no problem with these tactics but also sadi what do ppl expect Barca to do, just give the ball to the opposition? Well what do you expect the opposition to do, not defend when they don't have the same calibre of players and let Barca wipe the floor with them?

Each and every team is under pressure from fans and owners to win or at least do their best to get a result. If Barca are going to come out and hang onto the ball as much as they can then they are the origin of the opposition team needing to defend and giving us this type of games, the alternative of a lesser team just stadning off them would suit Barca but is not a competitve game

Its a blinkered and unrealistic view to look at football in term of which brand is most pleasing to the eye. There is a business element to it.

Yes you followed up your post by saying you have no problem with teams adopting these tactics after you branded it anti-football against exciting football in the post before.

Barca do not play exciting pleasing to the eye football all the time against the big and small clubs. They can be very tiresome to watch as its the one approach with no plan b that leads to these types of games.

At other times they can be dazzeling when they are given the run of the pitch.

Did you think Celtics approach was boring when they played them? They beat them and almost got a point away from home by being organised and tactically astute not boring. The oppositions are not there to make sure Barca are allowed to entertain their fans with tikki takka.

The point is here >>> . <<<<<



















































































































































>>>>> You are here <<<<<

The_Kew_Tour

I enjoy watching Barca. I enjoy how they wait for that moment and can play slick passes and it's looks class when it does go right.

It pains me to say but their CL final performance against us was astonishing.

But the big problem they have now is they have no plan B. 4-0 down or 4-0 up they still play same way.

Even a team of Celtics ability could suffocate the Barca attacking threat.

Their pressing and high line was what made this team what they were but now they don't play this way and in Europe they have suffered greatly.

Your Airbag

Jernal wrote: »

The point is here >>> . <<<<<
>>>>> You are here <<<<<

Standard I have no comeback post and cannot engage in discussion so I'll resort to silly remarks. Your post was pointless.

No I haven't missed the point. Barca bore me and many ppl to tears when up against and organised side, they way they set out, no plan B. Physcially they are whimps and cannot handle it.

I'm sorry you can't grasp this idea. Most Barca fans are unwilling to see any faults and believe they are the best club side ever. They are not, way too many weaknesses.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Your Airbag wrote: »

Standard I have no comeback post and cannot engage in discussion so I'll resort to silly remarks. Your post was pointless.

No I haven't missed the point. Barca bore me and many ppl to tears when up against and organised side, they way they set out, no plan B. Physcially they are whimps and cannot handle it.

I'm sorry you can't grasp this idea. Most Barca fans are unwilling to see any faults and believe they are the best club side ever. They are not, way too many weaknesses.

Wow, you're still not grasping my point. Okay, let's try a new approach.

Let's say if in every game Man United (or whoever you support) play, in every match whether they play away from home or not, the opposition plays 7-10 men behind the ball, the opposition only attack in numbers when on the break or at set pieces. They are happy to soak up pressure and play for the draw.

In that case scenario who are the broing team?

Because nearly every week that's what Barca are up against.

Let's say if they travel away to Chelsea for the CL semi and Chelsea play 9 men behind the ball, who are the boring team there?

ahnowbrowncow

THFC wrote: »

Wow, you're still not grasping my point. Okay, let's try a new approach.

Let's say if in every game Man United (or whoever you support) play, in every match whether they play away from home or not, the opposition plays 7-10 men behind the ball, the opposition only attack in numbers when on the break or at set pieces. They are happy to soak up pressure and play for the draw.

In that case scenario who are the broing team?

Because nearly every week that's what Barca are up against.

Let's say if they travel away to Chelsea for the CL semi and Chelsea play 9 men behind the ball, who are the boring team there?

Barcelona, Chelsea's masterful defending was a joy to watch last year.

munchkin_utd

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Barcelona, Chelsea's masterful defending was a joy to watch last year.

have to agree.
It didnt look like Barca were ever going to score and the tension of the whole thing made it exciting.

The only thing that was annoying about it was that you nearly wanted to shout at the entire 11 of Barcelona to tell them that what they were doing was stupid and pointless and that their sole plan and concept of walking the ball across the line just wasnt going to work.

But the performance from Chelsea was magnificent and exactly what was needed for a cup tie against Barca and that was a spectacle to behold in itsself.

Now....
How they won against Bayern I'll never know but they did thanks to Drogba choosing for once to stay on his feet and score an unlikely winner.

Your Airbag

THFC wrote: »

Wow, you're still not grasping my point. Okay, let's try a new approach.

Let's say if in every game Man United (or whoever you support) play, in every match whether they play away from home or not, the opposition plays 7-10 men behind the ball, the opposition only attack in numbers when on the break or at set pieces. They are happy to soak up pressure and play for the draw.

In that case scenario who are the broing team?

Because nearly every week that's what Barca are up against.

Let's say if they travel away to Chelsea for the CL semi and Chelsea play 9 men behind the ball, who are the boring team there?

I am not missing the point, I'm saying your point is rubbish. You are the person who can't grasp the idea that Barca are boring to watch at times and some of us find this the case. No plan B, lets knock the ball around and around when key players are going marked out of the game I can't make it any clearer.

You say what if the opposition set up the same way each time when it is Barca who set up the same way everytime. Using the same old boring way everytime argument when its exactly what Barca do.

I'd rather a team go for it and open up, then we have room for the opposition to exploit and an entertaining game.

THFC wrote: »

When team's 'park the bus' against Barca, how can anyone call Barca the boring team?? Barca were probably the most exciting team to watch before teams started adopting such negative, anti-football (and that's what they are) tactics.

I don't know what people expect Barca to do, give the ball to the opposition or something??

Here was your first reply

Again if Barca are going to hold onto so much of the ball what kind of reaction are they expecting from the opposition. Players to stand aside and let them in on goal? It takes two to tango and make a boring match, many of which Barca have taken part in. One team is defending well, the other can't find a way through and don't adjust anything, Plan A remains and we have 90 mins of watching paint dry It takes two too tango. I hope I made it clear enough.


Later on you mentioned how the opposition are forced to take on these tactics, forced by Barca get it yet?

THFC wrote: »

I want to clear this up, I mean anti-football in the sense that it stops football.

Also, I am NOT, in any way, shape or form, referring to Bayern's tactics last night. I didn't even see the game. I was referring to an ignorant generalisation.

If they were boring last night, so be it, they were boring.

Well done you almost grasped the point some of us were making here, almost, until you followed that up with this gem

THFC wrote: »

My point being that Barca aren't boring, rather the teams that play against them adopt 'boring' tactics.

Also, if you bothered to read my posts you would have read the bit where I said I'm not condemning those tactics, my exact words were "I am perfectly okay with team adopting such tactics, hell, if I was a manager against Barca I'd shamelessly do the same." Did you just choose to ignore that bit?


And one last time, just to reiterate, my point is that Barca aren't boring, it's the fact that opposition teams are forced to adopt defensive tactics. I am not condemning those tactics.

So much cringe in one post. Barca are not boring except for when they are boring which they are not, its the opposition that are boring which I don't have a problem with, I'd do it myself. Barca are not boring.


Do you actually know what you are trying to say?

Barca were not boring against Bayern, they were nothing. How many chances did they create? In every area they were over powered except for ball possession which was comepletely sterile. Yes sterile that "ignorant ****e pedalling comment" that you first responded to that could not possibly be true, except when it is, like Tuesday night any many other occasions.

Barca with the lions share of posession manged to create no clear cut chances, managed not to get Messi or Iniesta involved, managed to concede 4 goals (it could have easily been more) and managed nothing meanigful but pointless/sterile passing of the ball in the Bayern half until it was taken off them.

The point I'm making could not be clearer. If Barca were up against a team as good as defending as Bayern but without the counter attacking talent Bayern had it would have been 90 mins of paint drying, thank god Bayern entertained us with some go for the jugular football.

But hey you didn't see the match and a classic example of sterile football, what a surprise :rolleyes:

Turtwig

My point was that you weren't responding to THFC point : twice!
Forget about Barca fans, I'm not a Barca fan and I don't think THFC is either and even if he was it'd be somewhat irrelevant.

Anyway, here's my two cents. Thfc may or may not agree.

Let's get the annoying turkey out of the way first. Chelsea defended awfully against Barca especially in the first leg. The amount of sitters Barca missed were well, shocking. The amount of times the woodwork and Cech came to the rescue was over 4. Chelsea were cut open on several occasions.

Munich and Inter on the other hand? Now they actually defended brilliantly. Inter's model was more noteworthy though. I think it was Arsene Wenger that said it Barca were fitter than most teams at the time but they're relentless pressing could be undoing if your set your team up in an efficient manner. What this meant was by around the hour mark of the game if you're team had been a bit more conservative in their stamina Barca would be more tired than your team and you'd have a chance to take the game to them. This was what Inter did. Arsenal, to a fair extent, tried to replicate it. Tactics don't guarantee you'll win matches but they do give the best chance of winning. (Sometimes! A mistake by one of your players though and its curtains - as we saw by Hummels last night having an uncharacteristic poor game.)

Munich right now are the probably the most athletic team like Barca once were. Next season though that gap might be closed considerably or it might take a few more seasons, or Munich might lose motivation. Either ways, if Munich do become the next benchmark then every team will study their tactics and style very closely and it likely won't take long before flaws or exploits start to emerge.


Anyone who thinks if Munich go on to dominate they'll remaining entertaining is totally missing the way this sport works. Most teams, won't approach Munich like they do today. They'll try to play to their strengths and negate all perceived weakness. So if Munich are fitter, they're not going to go 1 v 1 physical against them. They'll likely sit very deep and invite Munich onto into a tight space like teams actually ended up doing to Barca. I'm not saying this is definitely going to happen some manager may figure out a better way but it's how teams adapt to teams that decide what way games will go. This isn't Munich's faults, or the present Barca's fault, or their opponents, it's just the nature of the sport and both team playing to their strengths.
How often over the past year and half have Barca played on an away pitch that was barely worth the full shilling? Taking just a few microseconds of their passing, but noticeable - always noticeable. Any little trick that can be done to negate your opposition will be done. So saying Munich's style is what makes them entertaining is actually missing the point. If Munich do go on to dominate they'll become just as boring the longer they dominate for.

But 'boredom' is a subjective expression. I like watching all sorts of teams, be they those who resolutely defend for their lives. Or those who try experimental approaches to defending or attacking. So if Munich do become as 'stagnant' in their attack as Barca then I still watch them because it'll still probably be fascinating. What makes Barca so great is that they kept adapting their style and tactics formations - sometimes erroneously so- to keep the opposition guessing. People say Barcelona need a plan B don't really realise that hoofing the ball into the box is stupid. If it's effective why don't teams do it all the time? Bayern didn't and probably never will. All their crosses were somewhat intelligent and they had lots of space to exploit. If Barca had sat deeper on Tuesday and just held possession in their own half leaving less space for Bayern to work with though . ..
Now, obviously that would have made Barca incredibly boring, but the point is Bayern were only entertaining on Tuesday because Barca were set up so positively. If Bayern go on to dominate then the majority of teams aren't going to play directly into their hands like Barca did last night. It's unfair to call any team boring because it's the combination of how the teams collides and their abilities in both defending and attacking that decides which team is actually going to be boring on the night. Any team will play to their strengths and you can't fault them on that.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Right, I'm bowing out of this thread. I can't make my point any clearer and I accept, as Jernal said, that it's a very subjective point. @Your Airbag, I think it's best we agree to disagree, if not, so be it. Feel free to argue your point. I'm not the man to get involved in debates that go around in circles. I think Jernal summed up what i was trying to say perfectly so I won't comment further.

Here Precious2

Airbag is correct. It's got to a stage with no plan b that barca are boring to watch.

GavRedKing

munchkin_utd wrote: »

How they won against Bayern I'll never know but they did thanks to Drogba choosing for once to stay on his feet and score an unlikely winner.

It was penalty, he could hardly dive for it :pac:

Carry on..........

munchkin_utd

GavRedKing wrote: »

It was penalty, he could hardly dive for it :pac:

Carry on..........

Ach, I meant the goal he scored in play to bring it to extra time, but indeed the "winner" was the last penalty.
Still, you would be surprised if he took a dive in the box whilst taking the penalty, if anything just to be consistent in what he normally does in that part of the field with nobody near him!

anyhow, in the aftermath of the 2 big wins for the german teams against the top 2 spanish teams, theres a nice review by James Richardson on what the spanish and german press are saying
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2013/apr/25/james-richardson-european-football-papers-review-video