Champions League - Bayern Munich v Barcelona First Leg

Jesus Barcelona really can't defend. Even the crosses leading to the goal were just chips into the box, it's not like they were whipped in or anything, the kind that if they're landing within 8 yards of the goal they should be the keeper's every time.

Francie Barrett

Lennonist wrote: »

That was coming wasn't it, Barca heading for a transition stage. They have turned into a 1 man team.

That's what I have been thinking for awhile. The likes of Abidal, Puyol, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi are all world class players - the younger generation haven't lived up to their standards from what I have seen.

Andersonisgod

The decisions for the second and third goal effectively ended the tie. 1-0 or even 2-0 and there was still a chance at the Camp Nou. I thought the referee tonight was dreadful overall. It also didn't help that it was played on a pitch unworthy of English League 1 let alone a Champions League semi final.

All of that being said, it's clear something drastic needs to happen at Barcelona. There was a time, 2007/2008 to be more exact, when a previously great Barcelona team played Man Utd in the semi finals and went out with a whimper, when that same team played Barcelona B (managed by Pep Guardiola) they were trounced, big changes happened and the rest is football history. Once again, big changes must happen. Barcelona are still in a great position, with the greatest player in the world on their books, a collection of some of the finest midfielders the world has ever seen in their squad. But it is either the hunger or the legs that have been lost somewhat in their game. perhaps both. Pep Guardiola noticed it during his last season in charge, he noticed that the pressing had become less ferocious, that mistakes and complacency were creeping in and he left in the hope that the squad would be rejuvenated playing for a new manager. It hasn't worked out like that, the pressing remains far less tenacious than it once was, defensive frailties have only increased (though they were missing their 1st and 2nd choice and 3rd choice centre backs). The club has the right philosophy, it has the greatest football academy the world has ever seen, it has the finances, the clout and a basis to build another great team, the club needs to regroup and produce another gem of cutting edge change as they did the last time they went out of a Champions League in such disappointing fashion.

Equium

castle wrote: »

Will that Barcelona team ever bale out Messi for a change they all bottlers bar Messi,

I find it funny that many of the people saying that Barca are a one man team are the same people who were saying that Messi himself only looked good due to being in the same side as Xavi, Iniesta and Co. Which is the official line now?

Anyway, Bayern played the perfect game tonight. They knew how to exploit Barcelona and did so expertly. Mind you, the opponents were equally terrible in both performance and attitude. Villanova hasn't yet gotten them to perform in the biggest games on a regular basis. His slightly more direct style also leaves them more vulnerable at the back when they do lose the ball.

n32

Best team ever?? I think not. Football is as much about defending as attacking. How many times have we seen Barca fall behind and completely lose their structure at the back and throw Pique up front. Granted they are wonderful going forward but they ve never mastered the defensive side of the game. Teams like Milan of the late 80s early 90's had a mixture of solid defence and good going forward.
How can a team like Barca ignore the fact that they cant defend a set piece? Is it arrogance or ignorance? Its probably a failing of the Spanish league that they arent tested more often from good set pieces. Could they have withstood the barrage United took in Upton Park last week? I don t think so

They ve set the standard for midfield and forward play and have been incredible to watch but they have serious flaws in their team that they have never addressed.

adox

What a great two nights of football.

SantryRed

kingshankly wrote: »

Barca used to be brilliant at getting the ball back when the lost it
Either the legs are gone on some or the hunger but the don't chase the ball down like the used to

Or they've lost that advantage cause they're both at it now.

GavRedKing

Lonesome Boatman wrote: »

German football>>Spanish football>>>>>>English football

Where does that leave Scottish Football?






































Down here?

RandolphEsq

Andersonisgod wrote: »

The decisions for the second and third goal effectively ended the tie. 1-0 or even 2-0 and there was still a chance at the Camp Nou. I thought the referee tonight was dreadful overall. It also didn't help that it was played on a pitch unworthy of English League 1 let alone a Champions League semi final.

All of that being said, it's clear something drastic needs to happen at Barcelona. There was a time, 2007/2008 to be more exact, when a previously great Barcelona team played Man Utd in the semi finals and went out with a whimper, when that same team played Barcelona B (managed by Pep Guardiola) they were trounced, big changes happened and the rest is football history. Once again, big changes must happen. Barcelona are still in a great position, with the greatest player in the world on their books, a collection of some of the finest midfielders the world has ever seen in their squad. But it is either the hunger or the legs that have been lost somewhat in their game. perhaps both. Pep Guardiola noticed it during his last season in charge, he noticed that the pressing had become less ferocious, that mistakes and complacency were creeping in and he left in the hope that the squad would be rejuvenated playing for a new manager. It hasn't worked out like that, the pressing remains far less tenacious than it once was, defensive frailties have only increased (though they were missing their 1st and 2nd choice and 3rd choice centre backs). The club has the right philosophy, it has the greatest football academy the world has ever seen, it has the finances, the clout and a basis to build another great team, the club needs to regroup and produce another gem of cutting edge change as they did the last time they went out of a Champions League in such disappointing fashion.

I would relax; Messi wasn't fit. And there is a second leg, at home. Simple as that. Look at Bayern against Arsenal the second leg.

Andersonisgod

n32 wrote: »

Best team ever?? I think not. Football is as much about defending as attacking. How many times have we seen Barca fall behind and completely lose their structure at the back and throw Pique up front. Granted they are wonderful going forward but they ve never mastered the defensive side of the game. Teams like Milan of the late 80s early 90's had a mixture of solid defence and good going forward.
How can a team like Barca ignore the fact that they cant defend a set piece? Is it arrogance or ignorance? Its probably a failing of the Spanish league that they arent tested more often from good set pieces. Could they have withstood the barrage United took in Upton Park last week? I don t think so

They ve set the standard for midfield and forward play and have been incredible to watch but they have serious flaws in their team that they have never addressed.

Yes they've had a poor night and yes change is needed but if you think that this squad that has won 2 Champions Leagues and many of whom have lifted 2 European Championships and a World Cup can't beat West bloody Ham then I well and truly give up.

Lonesome Boatman

GavRedKing wrote: »

Where does that leave Scottish Football?
Down here?

Maybe.... but Scottish football have never claimed to the best league in the world.

Maybe the EPL was at one time, but i think things have changed over the last couple of seasons. German and Spanish league is superior now

Lennonist

RandolphEsq wrote: »

It's always been about building a team around Messi. He is still not fully fit. Arsenal and Leverkusen can testify to Messi's one-man devastation capability. No matter who Messi plays for they will be described as a one-man team such is his standard.

Arsenal and Leverkusen are in the halfpenny place when you are talking about this level at CL semi final stage.

Barca as a team are heading for transition despite Messi remaining the best player in the world. He is still the best in the world, the point is they will need to build a new team around him.

Blatter

The scary thing about this for Barcelona is that I didn't even think Bayern were that impressive. They defended extremely well but their attacks were very basic, there was nothing really special about their forward play yet they managed 4 goals and could have had more.

The regression this season in Barcelona as a defensive unit has been amazing.

Andersonisgod

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I would relax; Messi wasn't fit. And there is a second leg, at home. Simple as that. Look at Bayern against Arsenal the second leg.

Dude the tie is over. And change is inevitable, it has to happen at some stage. A centre back is a must, a player akin to a Hazard or a Neymar is also important to take some of the pressure off Messi. Perhaps more but that really is for the Barcelona board to decide.

murpho999

Liked Robben in the ITV interview there.

Dismissing media ignoring Bayern's great performance and focusing on an offside and a foul.

That's a ref's responsibility not a player.

castletownman

Whatever about RVP's and Bale's importance to their respective clubs, Thomas Muller has to be one of the best "big game" players in world football at the moment. Amazingly consistent. Top notch.

klose

A word on the pitch, passing is the basic fundamental of the game bayerns watering down of the pitch effected them aswell as barca, if barca struggled with it thats tough **** on them as bayern were well handle to handle with it

Turtwig

Why does officiating always have to come into? One dodgy goal, I'm fairly certain Alves played Gomes onside. Eitherway, Bayern had all the chances. Barca's best chance fell to Bartra who had too much time and scuttled it. Says it all really. Bayern, like against Juve, got the goals they didn't officially deserve, but deserved to win by more. Strange auld game this.

What would be the odds on a 1-1 draw in the Nou Camp. Ahh Symmetry!
Thought Messi was really poor by his standards. No dynamism. Xavi, Iniesta, Pedro and Sanchez all played very well. Personally, I'd have thrown on fabregas instead of Villa.

Tito didn't change anything because he couldn't see anything to change. I wonder if Guardiola would have? It wasn't as Barca were bad, they're technical skills were amazing under pressure they just had no penetration. In the second half you could iniesta and Xavi being more direct and running at Bayern causing a few problems. I guess, in that light, Bayern were lucky to score when they did. But where was Messi? The was one time when Pedro was holding the ball up on the edge of the box, normally Messi'd be running on to that at a flash, instead he was standing static in the centre of the pitch and Pedro laid it back to Busquets.

Dunphy remarked that Bayern had a bunch of Donkeys in their team. Martinez, Dante, played superbly. Dante got too vital touches that could have change the tie.


Only downer on this game was the officiating. Bayern should arguably have a penalty (and lots more yellows) but they're third goal should never have stood. Either way, if Bayern are the team to fill the gap for the next era then boy are we in a for a treat.

I knew not watching them from earlier in the season would have come back to haunt me.

The_Kew_Tour

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I would relax; Messi wasn't fit. And there is a second leg, at home. Simple as that. Look at Bayern against Arsenal the second leg.

Stranger things have happened, but on tonight it is hard to see Bayern not scoring and Barca winning the match in itself.

Cienciano

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I don't agree at all. You can't see Barcelona winning it on current form? Form that has stormed them to the top of La Liga? Form that has seen them reach the semi final for a record setting number of consecutive times? Bayern are undoubtedly the better team at the moment? Why? What have they done? They've won the Bundesliga, Barcelona have dominated La Liga since week 1 this season. What have the Bayern players won as a group to make you think they are the better team right now? As talented a group as they are they haven't won the Champions League and they have underperformed on the international stage. This Barcelona team have swept all before them, redefining football as they go, this Barcelona team form the core of the most successful international side that there has ever been. This Barcelona team are serial winners, a collection of players who have proven time and time again over the years that they have, not only the quality, but the character to win the big games and the big tournaments. I don't see why Bayern should be considered the better side. Barcelona should go into the tie as favourites because they have earned that right by winning trophies consistently.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

All of that being said, it's clear something drastic needs to happen at Barcelona. There was a time, 2007/2008 to be more exact, when a previously great Barcelona team played Man Utd in the semi finals and went out with a whimper, when that same team played Barcelona B (managed by Pep Guardiola) they were trounced, big changes happened and the rest is football history. Once again, big changes must happen. Barcelona are still in a great position, with the greatest player in the world on their books, a collection of some of the finest midfielders the world has ever seen in their squad. But it is either the hunger or the legs that have been lost somewhat in their game. perhaps both. Pep Guardiola noticed it during his last season in charge, he noticed that the pressing had become less ferocious, that mistakes and complacency were creeping in and he left in the hope that the squad would be rejuvenated playing for a new manager. It hasn't worked out like that, the pressing remains far less tenacious than it once was, defensive frailties have only increased (though they were missing their 1st and 2nd choice and 3rd choice centre backs). The club has the right philosophy, it has the greatest football academy the world has ever seen, it has the finances, the clout and a basis to build another great team, the club needs to regroup and produce another gem of cutting edge change as they did the last time they went out of a Champions League in such disappointing fashion.

:pac:
.

Montroseee

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Dude the tie is over. And change is inevitable, it has to happen at some stage. A centre back is a must, a player akin to a Hazard or a Neymar is also important to take some of the pressure off Messi. Perhaps more but that really is for the Barcelona board to decide.

They also need a Javi Martinez-esque player, Busquets has been awful all season, people talk about messi,pique etc. dropping their standards this season while Busquets is in freefall

grohlisagod

If Barca had a couple of properly aggressive centre backs 3 out of those 4 goals could easily have been avoided. I cannot understand their complete refusal to address that issue. They're a soft touch.

yohan the great

I really hate when people take stupid conclusions from stats. Xavi got 97/97 pass rate against PSG. Everybody thought it was great. No it wasn't he just keeps passing it backwards (by the way this isn't aimed at anybody here)

Blatter

Oh and..

http://www.gomezbutton.de/

Certified

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I would relax; Messi wasn't fit. And there is a second leg, at home. Simple as that. Look at Bayern against Arsenal the second leg.

I fear for Barca in the second leg, Bayern banged in two against a brilliant Juve defence in that second leg!
Agg score could realistically be 6 or 7-0.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

RandolphEsq

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Dude the tie is over. And change is inevitable, it has to happen at some stage. A centre back is a must, a player akin to a Hazard or a Neymar is also important to take some of the pressure off Messi. Perhaps more but that really is for the Barcelona board to decide.

The young players are just a bit young, they need temporary filler. Vidic would be ideal as a rock to have guiding the defence.

The_Kew_Tour

Where has Barca High Line and Pressing gone?

Its like its been totally evaporated from the side. Its what made Barca the team they were.

Blatter

Phoenix wrote: »

This should make the return at Camp Nou even more interesting

I would have thought it has made it a lot less interesting :pac:

Andersonisgod

Cienciano wrote: »

:pac:
.

Ok so I've been a little bit biased in my opinions, who hasn't? I maintain that on another night, with a different team of officials this might have been a different game.

However I've said (mainly elsewhere) earlier this season that it's coming closer and closer to the point in time where something will have to change with this team. Guardiola, the creator of the team, knew it and he worked with them day in, day out. They have been terrific in La Liga this season, done very well to win the title there. With a few clever transfers, a change here and there and this club is more than capable of winning any trophy.

RasTa

RandolphEsq wrote: »

It's the level of begrudgery I would associate with a Irish person, hardly ridiculous!?

Fyp..

RandolphEsq

Lennonist wrote: »

Arsenal and Leverkusen are in the halfpenny place when you are talking about this level at CL semi final stage.

Barca as a team are heading for transition despite Messi remaining the best player in the world. He is still the best in the world, the point is they will need to build a new team around him.

Arsenal as an example; look how they came back at Bayern the second leg, if they are in the halfpenny place then Barca would've finished Bayern off.

miralize

Since the away goal rule is in place, no team has been able to turn around a 4-0 in Europe, in 171 attempts #fcblive #ucl [via misterchip]

The optimistic Barcelona fan in me wants to say we could be the team to do it, but it wont. It'd probably be for the best, if we did manage to get through, it would just mask our deficiencies...

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Andersonisgod

RandolphEsq wrote: »

The young players are just a bit young, they need temporary filler. Vidic would be ideal as a rock to have guiding the defence.

Vidic. Thiago Silva has talked previously about wanting to join the club he supported as a boy, he would be ideal. I think another quick player on the wing capable of going inside, ala Hazard or Neymar is important also.

RandolphEsq

RasTa wrote: »

Fyp..

haha thanks.

Oat23

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ok so I've been a little bit biased in my opinions, who hasn't? I maintain that on another night, with a different team of officials this might have been a different game.

No it wouldn't, they got absolutely annihilated to the point they might need the number of the rape crisis center.

The best chance they had fell to Beltra. The only chance was it?

n32

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Yes they've had a poor night and yes change is needed but if you think that this squad that has won 2 Champions Leagues and many of whom have lifted 2 European Championships and a World Cup can't beat West bloody Ham then I well and truly give up.

You re missing the point I m trying to make. In La Liga and CL most teams play passing football and dont hoof it long to a big bruiser of a centre forward and rely on set plays. Its been proven that they cant defend set plays. When they meet a passing team they ll win easy pretty much every time. But when they meet a physical team a la Inter 09/10, Chelsea and Real Madrid of late they dont seem to be able to cope with the more physical and direct approach. To be a truly great team you have to be able to mix it up. I used West Ham as an example of the type of physical battle thats common in England , i wasnt saying West ham would beat Barcelona for fúck sake.

miralize

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ok so I've been a little bit biased in my opinions, who hasn't? I maintain that on another night, with a different team of officials this might have been a different game.

However I've said (mainly elsewhere) earlier this season that it's coming closer and closer to the point in time where something will have to change with this team. Guardiola, the creator of the team, knew it and he worked with them day in, day out. They have been terrific in La Liga this season, done very well to win the title there. With a few clever transfers, a change here and there and this club is more than capable of winning any trophy.

No. If the roles were reversed, we would have gladly pounced on the refs decision. You can't pin our bad performance on the ref this time.

Hank Scorpio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Ok so I've been a little bit biased in my opinions, who hasn't? I maintain that on another night, with a different team of officials this might have been a different game.

if anything you should be glad its only 4-0, they were absolutely humiliated

Turtwig

miralize wrote: »

The optimistic Barcelona fan in me wants to say we could be the team to do it, but it wont. It'd probably be for the best, if we did manage to get through, it would just mask our deficiencies...

Well ye did become the first team to overcome an away 2-0 defeat. :pac:
Maybe Xavi was on to something earlier when he said that they've won trophies but still had no comebacks. To be a truly great side they needed comebacks - course, that was before the return at Milan.

4 goals against Bayern? I wouldn't put it past them, but 6? Yeah, maybe. Can't wait for the return Bayern neutralised them, but can they do that twice? The same trick normally doesn't work twice. I was hoping Tito would chuck out his experimental 3-4-3, but he didn't. Presumably because he didn't have the confidence they'd know how to implement it.

Andersonisgod

n32 wrote: »

You re missing the point I m trying to make. In La Liga and CL most teams play passing football and dont hoof it long to a big bruiser of a centre forward and rely on set plays. Its been proven that they cant defend set plays. When they meet a passing team they ll win easy pretty much every time. But when they meet a physical team a la Inter 09/10, Chelsea and Real Madrid of late they dont seem to be able to cope with the more physical and direct approach. To be a truly great team you have to be able to mix it up. I used West Ham as an example of the type of physical battle thats common in England , i wasnt saying West ham would beat Barcelona for fúck sake.

Levante are a physical team, an almost English type team. They play them every season they are in the league. Atletico Madrid since Simeone took over have been a very physical team and wouldn't look out of place at all in the upper echelons of the Premier League. It's ridiculous to say that every time they play a physical team they lose. You named examples of times they lost to physical teams, anybody could just as easily name twice as many examples of when they beat physical teams.

fullstop

Montroseee wrote: »

Bayern should be the first team to retain the CL.

Whoa, cowboy. They haven't won it this season yet!

RandolphEsq

n32 wrote: »

You re missing the point I m trying to make. In La Liga and CL most teams play passing football and dont hoof it long to a big bruiser of a centre forward and rely on set plays. Its been proven that they cant defend set plays. When they meet a passing team they ll win easy pretty much every time. But when they meet a physical team a la Inter 09/10, Chelsea and Real Madrid of late they dont seem to be able to cope with the more physical and direct approach. To be a truly great team you have to be able to mix it up. I used West Ham as an example of the type of physical battle thats common in England , i wasnt saying West ham would beat Barcelona for fúck sake.

I would take Real out of your example. They concede a lot from set-pieces. Don't have the stat on hand but it was brought up before they played Utd.

Andersonisgod

miralize wrote: »

No. If the roles were reversed, we would have gladly pounced on the refs decision. You can't pin our bad performance on the ref this time.

Well I am going to try.

Montroseee

Jernal wrote: »

Well ye did become the first team to overcome an away 2-0 defeat. :pac:
Maybe Xavi was on to something earlier when he said that they've won trophies but still had no comebacks. To be a truly great side they needed comebacks - course, that was before the return at Milan.

4 goals against Bayern? I wouldn't put it past them, but 6? Yeah, maybe. Can't wait for the return Bayern neutralised them, but can they do that twice? The same trick normally doesn't work twice. I was hoping Tito would chuck out his experimental 3-4-3, but he didn't. Presumably because he didn't have the confidence they'd know how to implement it.

The talk of them being the best club side ever was rubbish, they don't have the steel or grit the likes of United in 99' final showed.

smileyj1987

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Well I am going to try.

I think you will fail at that :pac:

Moneymaker

Decisions schmecisons. Barca have some glaring weaknesses and Bayern took full advantage. Not much more to it really.

Bodhisopha

miralize wrote: »

No. If the roles were reversed, we would have gladly pounced on the refs decision. You can't pin our bad performance on the ref this time.

You can't, but you can pin the fact that the tie is over on the ref(s). What do those 5th officials do anyways?

Francie Barrett

GavRedKing wrote: »

Where does that leave Scottish Football?






































Down here?

Chelsea fan rubbishes Scottish football despite the fact that Celtic made the knock-out stages of the Champions League whereas Chelsea got knocked out in the group stages :pac: