Champions League - Bayern Munich v Barcelona First Leg

elefant

Jeez, lads some of the gloating going on in this thread is unbelievable. I never knew there was so much raw hatred for Barcelona. Even as a Valencia fan with a strong dislike for many of the Barca players, and sick to the teeth of Barca and Real getting dubious decision after dubious decision in La Liga, I enjoyed seeing Bayern's performance a lot more than seeing Barca fail.

Bayern played excellently and deserved their big win- the third goal was crucial though, and it beggars belief that not one of the officials saw the foul. I don't think any Bayern player had a poor game, and their work in midfield was fantastic.

By the way, it was alluded to repeatedly in this thread, but has anyone with any footballing knowledge ever actually believed Alba was the best left-back in the world? He is an average winger converted by Valencia when Mathieu was injured whose pace combined with Barca + Spain's possession keep him out of trouble usually.

Overall, I really enjoyed the match, and I hope the second leg is as entertaining.

PhlegmyMoses

Big win for Bayern but if there is any team in the world that can drag that kind of result back it's Barcelona.

Any talk of a Barca decline is relative to what they have achieved before. For 4 years they were the best club team ever and virtually unbeatable over two legs without a great slice of luck and a heavy dollop of parking the bus. Now they're simply one of the top two or three sides in Europe with two of the best three players in the world on their team. I reckon they'll be fine.

Bodhisopha

Montroseee wrote: »

The talk of them being the best club side ever was rubbish, they don't have the steel or grit the likes of United in 99' final showed.

Pep's Barca were for my money the best club side ever. There should be a clear distinction between his side and any that has followed.

CSF

People really do enjoy a good kneejerk.

Andersonisgod

Montroseee wrote: »

The talk of them being the best club side ever was rubbish, they don't have the steel or grit the likes of United in 99' final showed.

One big defeat and we have hysterics. A Barcelona team who have won 2 Champions League's, 3 La Liga's and who form the core of the most successful national side ever (winning 2 European Championships and a World Cup) don't have grit and aren't as good as Man Utd side who barely won a final against a Bayern Munich side who bottled it. We have now entered bizzaro-world.

Blatter

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Pep's Barca were for my money the best club side ever. There should be a clear distinction between his side and any that has followed.

The Barca side that played in the 2011 CL final were considerably better than this Bayern side.

Mr Whirly

RandolphEsq wrote: »

EDIT: and working class people are notoriously begrudging.

And the upper classes are notoriously pissy when things don't go their way.

Francie Barrett

CSF wrote: »

People really do enjoy a good kneejerk.

Knee-jerk mehole.

Next season, Xavi will be reduced to doing ITV punditry with failed managers like Garth Southgate and Roy Keane. Messi on the other-hand will be plying his trade at Yeovil Town and Iniesta will admit defeat in his pursuit of a professional career to become a goat-herder in the Pyrenees.

RandolphEsq

Mr Whirly wrote: »

And the upper classes are notoriously pissy when things don't go their way.

Well they aren't used to being told "no".

miralize

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Pep's Barca were for my money the best club side ever. There should be a clear distinction between his side and any that has followed.

Yes our defence is ****, but wait to see what we win. Thats what its all about & I wouldnt write the manager off yet.

Turtwig

Montroseee wrote: »

The talk of them being the best club side ever was rubbish, they don't have the steel or grit the likes of United in 99' final showed.

A ten man team going to the last moments in away ground in a champions league semi-final in 09. They didn't deserve the eventual victory but you couldn't stay they didn't have steal and grit on that night. They kept at it right until that final whistle.

Greatest Club side ever? I don't know. Greatest club team of the last decade? Definitely. Fegire, said it best though they were on a peak; their trough will come. Has it? We don't know. I mean, for all their "crises" this season they still won La Liga and made it to the last four in Europe.

Montroseee

Blatter wrote: »

The Barca side that played in the 2011 CL final were considerably better than this Bayern side.

That's debatable, I think this Bayern team will dominate for the next few years. The English and Italian leagues are much weaker than previous years, that has had a lot to do with Barca's European success

Captain Morgan Freeman

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Man Utd side who barely won a final against a Bayern Munich side who bottled it. We have now entered bizzaro-world.

UH OH, NOW YOUVE DONE IT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoX7vd30zq8

I can see the United fans parachuting in already. :pac:

Bodhisopha

miralize wrote: »

Yes our defence is ****, but wait to see what we win. Thats what its all about & I wouldnt write the manager off yet.

Have to say. With Pep leaving Barca when he did, and joining Bayern when he is, he's looking like one shrewd mafugga right now.

smileyj1987

Andersonisgod wrote: »

One big defeat and we have hysterics. A Barcelona team who have won 2 Champions League's, 3 La Liga's and who form the core of the most successful national side ever (winning 2 European Championships and a World Cup) don't have grit and aren't as good as Man Utd side who barely won a final against a Bayern Munich side who bottled it. We have now entered bizzaro-world.

I agree 100% the mark of a truly great side is that the same group of players can win the Champions League / European Cup more then once . It takes luck to win it once but if you win it more then once then you can't deny that its a great group of players . The Barcelona players have also done it at International level too . To me Barcelona have looked a different side since christmas . The urgency to press and the killer pass looked to have disappeared .

Andersonisgod

Captain Morgan Freeman wrote: »

UH OH, NOW YOUVE DONE IT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoX7vd30zq8

I can see the United fans parachuting in already. :pac:

That's all I need, along with constant arguments with Barcelona haters, I make the greatest enemy anyone can make on a football forum, the Man Utd fans.

Turtwig

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Have to say. With Pep leaving Barca when he did, and joining Bayern when he is, he's looking like one shrewd mafugga right now.

I''ll see if If I can find but read Sid Lowe's piece on Pep being seduced by Bayern. It tells a lot of his decision.
And, yes, he is one shrewd mafugga.

PhlegmyMoses

Even though I agree with some of his points, the tears of Andersonisgod are delicious.

Turtwig

Some poetry perhaps?
Barca's last 4-0 defeat was against AC Milan in the European Cup Final. The match which was by accounts regarded as the end of the era of Cryuff's dream team.
Can't wait for RTE to have a field day with that.

ahnowbrowncow

Blatter wrote: »

The Barca side that played in the 2011 CL final were considerably better than this Bayern side.

Nope, they would have been knocked out by arsenal in the last 16 in 2011 only for one of the most ridiculous red card decisions I have seen to change the game

Jelle1880

Absolutely humiliated by Bayern.

I can't see Real or Dortmund even threaten them for the cup.

Andersonisgod

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Even though I agree with some of his points, the tears of Andersonisgod are delicious.

2007/2008, guard of honour for Real Madrid, trashed 4-1. 2003/2004 eliminated from the Uefa Cup by Celtic. Barcelona, from those two major disappointments, would go on to build two truly great teams, the second of which will go down as one of, if not the, greatest club side the world has ever seen. Disappointment is natural in football and time brings an end to all things. This is the greatest club in the world, with the right football philosophy engraved deep into the heart of the club, with an array of legendary footballers in it's squad. Barcelona will be back next season, better than they were before, that is what they do, that is what they have always done, the slogan goes "more than just a club" and it is, it is a people, a proud nation and the greatest club in the world.

OnTheCouch

OnTheCouch wrote: »

Very interesting clash, I see Messi has got the green light to play, this is a huge boost for Barca.

In my opinion Bayern actually have a better team at the current time, but what I also suspect is that they won't play against Barca in the same way 99 percent of teams do, ie defend en masse and try to hit them on the break, which could well give the Catalans a better chance than they would ordinarily have. So I believe the game will be fairly open with a lot of chances.

At the same time, the Barca rearguard has been so flimsy this season, it is hard to see Bayern not scoring at least once or twice at home. But if David Villa plays and if the side can actually come out and attack for once in an important away game, I can envisage how Barca could quite easily pull off a surprise victory (must be a while since that phrase was last used). Plus the German central defence is also a bit shaky, would have no great faith in either Boateng or Dante, even though the latter has been a lot better recently.

I'll go for a 2-1 or 3-2 away victory.

OK well I didn't quite get the scoreline right....

Mind you, if I clutch at straws, I can say that at least there were a lot of chances (for one of the sides), plus Bayern definitely scored once or twice... My prediction was also made on the premise that Messi would be fully fit, which he was nowhere near being, not quite as ridiculous as in the second leg against PSG, but not far off. The medics/Vilanova clearly made the wrong call there. It truly shocks me how uninspired Barca look when he is injured or off form. Whereas it seems unfair to call a side with such legendary players as Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets a one-man team, one would have to acknowledge that at the moment, so much of their creativity and nous emanates from one player, that it's hard to draw any other conclusion.

On the other hand, that was a fantastic performance from Bayern, especially the midfield pressing, they really were relentless. Even though the third goal should patently not have been allowed, I don't think Barca could have complained had they shipped 6 or 7. Looks like a fitting final, Bayern v (probably) Real Madrid, even allowing for the fact that Dortmund should not be underestimated. Although the big question will be can Bayern repeat such a performance on the biggest stage of them all?

Blatter

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Nope, they would have been knocked out by arsenal in the last 16 in 2011 only for one of the most ridiculous red card decisions I have seen to change the game

They could have been knocked out (ridiculous to say they would have been). And I never said they were invincible back then although they were very close to it.

Sure Bayern nearly bottled it against Arsenal this season as well.

chopperbyrne

Andersonisgod wrote: »

2007/2008, guard of honour for Real Madrid, trashed 4-1. 2003/2004 eliminated from the Uefa Cup by Celtic. Barcelona, from those two major disappointments, would go on to build two truly great teams, the second of which will go down as one of, if not the, greatest club side the world has ever seen. Disappointment is natural in football and time brings an end to all things. This is the greatest club in the world, with the right football philosophy engraved deep into the heart of the club, with an array of legendary footballers in it's squad. Barcelona will be back next season, better than they were before, that is what they do, that is what they have always done, the slogan goes "more than just a club" and it is, it is a people, a proud nation and the greatest club in the world.

Yeah, and Ziggy played guitar too.

Lumbo

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Absolutely humiliated by Bayern.

I can't see Real or Dortmund even threaten them for the cup.

Turtwig

Gerard Pique wrote:

There's no explanation. They were stronger, faster and played better.

They just overwhelmed us. The referee is not an excuse, he had no influence. They were better, no more than that. We must perform at Camp Nou and try our best."

.

sea_monkey

Andersonisgod wrote: »

2007/2008, guard of honour for Real Madrid, trashed 4-1. 2003/2004 eliminated from the Uefa Cup by Celtic. Barcelona, from those two major disappointments, would go on to build two truly great teams, the second of which will go down as one of, if not the, greatest club side the world has ever seen. Disappointment is natural in football and time brings an end to all things. This is the greatest club in the world, with the right football philosophy engraved deep into the heart of the club, with an array of legendary footballers in it's squad. Barcelona will be back next season, better than they were before, that is what they do, that is what they have always done, the slogan goes "more than just a club" and it is, it is a people, a proud nation and the greatest club in the world.

4-0 though

Andersonisgod

sea_monkey wrote: »

4-0 though

4-1 to Madrid and finishing third. Losing to Celtic in the Uefa Cup. Both as bad, both times Barcelona emerged far stronger as a result.

Jelle1880

Lumbo wrote: »

Ronaldo will cry like a little bitch after he comes up against Bayern :P

Boskowski

On a more positive note... How big a player was Thomas Mueller tonight!
He was literally everywhere gets a terrible knock signals to come off and finds time to score his second. You don't have to be as talented as Messi to be a great player (not a dig btw, love Messi). It's all in the head...

I think his performance summed Bayern up tonight. They just wanted it more.

NIMAN

Bayern simply superb tonight. Not many teams give Barca a lesson.

I think if Madrid manage to get past Dortmund, they would have preferred to play Barca than Munich.

eagle eye

Boskowski wrote: »

On a more positive note... How big a player was Thomas Mueller tonight!
He was literally everywhere gets a terrible knock signals to come off and finds time to score his second. You don't have to be as talented as Messi to be a great player (not a dig btw, love Messi). It's all in the head...

I think his performance summed Bayern up tonight. They just wanted it more.

Without doubt the man is a big game player.

Morzadec

Boskowski wrote: »

On a more positive note... How big a player was Thomas Mueller tonight!
He was literally everywhere gets a terrible knock signals to come off and finds time to score his second. You don't have to be as talented as Messi to be a great player (not a dig btw, love Messi). It's all in the head...

I think his performance summed Bayern up tonight. They just wanted it more.

Massively impressed with the work rate off the ball and quality on it of Ribery, Muller and Robben.

Can any team in world football beat that attacking midfield trio? I don't think so.

Bayern were just awesome throughout the whole field tonight but those 3 all put in massive performances.

I think there is a certain truth in talking about an end of an era for Barca. Obviously they are still a team of real quality but I feel that at least a couple of teams have at least caught up. In the past few years I always felt Barca were a level above in Europe and that the CL trophy was theirs to lose. I include the years they didn't win it - every year they didn't win it I still felt they were undoubtedly the best team in Europe. they lost to extremely organised defensive units who perhaps scraped through with a bit of luck (Chelsea, Inter).

This was different. They were outplayed. I don't remember seeing Barca outplayed in recent years. I don't remember seeing Barca thrashed in recent years.

Not kneejerk to say this was a huge and significant win insofar as the landscape of European football is concerned.

Barca's days as the undisputed number 1s of Europe are over imo.

PhlegmyMoses

Andersonisgod wrote: »

2007/2008, guard of honour for Real Madrid, trashed 4-1. 2003/2004 eliminated from the Uefa Cup by Celtic. Barcelona, from those two major disappointments, would go on to build two truly great teams, the second of which will go down as one of, if not the, greatest club side the world has ever seen. Disappointment is natural in football and time brings an end to all things. This is the greatest club in the world, with the right football philosophy engraved deep into the heart of the club, with an array of legendary footballers in it's squad. Barcelona will be back next season, better than they were before, that is what they do, that is what they have always done, the slogan goes "more than just a club" and it is, it is a people, a proud nation and the greatest club in the world.

:pac:

eagle eye

I wasn't going to bother posting this but here goes. Anybody who is a lover of football could not possibly hate the current Barcelona. They have always played the game the right way and imposed their style on whoever got in their way.

So they got a good hiding tonight, big deal. They are still the greatest team to ever play the game. Making a sixth consecutive Champion's League semi-final(more than anybody in the history of ECL/European Cup) just shows what a great side this is. I've no doubt they will respond well to the new challengers to their throne as the greatest club side in Europe.

Andersonisgod

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

:pac:

When the next great Barcelona side emerges and they once again conquer world football I will be quick to find you on here and have a bit of a giggle.

smileyj1987

Morzadec wrote: »

Barca's days as the undisputed number 1s of Europe are over imo.

The Champions League has become very competitive again but it all depends on Villanovas ability to adapt make some tweaks and bring in a few new players . If they can get somebody to take the pressure off Messi for goals , a new defensive midfielder and a Center back I can see them shrugging off tonights loss as a live and learn thing .

MD1990

Neymar will be bought this summer now instead of 2014

PhlegmyMoses

Andersonisgod wrote: »

When the next great Barcelona side emerges and they once again conquer world football I will be quick to find you on here and have a bit of a giggle.

That'll show me, alright.

Morzadec

eagle eye wrote: »

I wasn't going to bother posting this but here goes. Anybody who is a lover of football could not possibly hate the current Barcelona. They have always played the game the right way and imposed their style on whoever got in their way.

So they got a good hiding tonight, big deal. They are still the greatest team to ever play the game. Making a sixth consecutive Champion's League semi-final(more than anybody in the history of ECL/European Cup) just shows what a great side this is. I've no doubt they will respond well to the new challengers to their throne as the greatest club side in Europe.

I have to agree with you. A lot of sense in this post.

It has been (and hopefully will continue to be) a pleasure to watch Barca over the last few years. I have been a massive fan of the way they play and they have been deserving of the success they have had over the last few years.

It's just the sheer wankery, the 'mes que un club', the 'greatest club on earth', the proud 'nation' bollocks, and the general self-satisfied smugness that comes out from some of their fans that make me somewhat want to jump on the anti-Barca bandwagon and lap up the tears ala Eric Cartman.

Andersonisgod

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

That'll show me, alright.

Yes, it will.

MisterAnarchy

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Big win for Bayern but if there is any team in the world that can drag that kind of result back it's Barcelona.

They have almost no chance of going through now .
The Barcelona of 2 years ago could overturn the deficit but not this side.

The writing has been on the wall for a good part of the season ,the team is not playing well .
Alot of the players have been off form for a number of months ,notably since Roura took over.
Xavi looks a shadow of himself for the last 18 months ,he is most likely carrying an injury .
Busquets has had a poor season by his standards as has Iniesta.
Sanchez has been very poor this season and Pedro has blown hot and cold whilst Villa has been average.
At the back Alves had a slow start to the season and the central defence has been shocking for most of the season.
Pique has had a nightmare of a season ,Puyol has been injury prone and Mascherano is a midfielder masquerading as a centre back.

Messi seems to be the only player willing to take a man on ,the rest are just content to keep passing it around ,and then give it to Messi to do something special.

Bayern were good on the night ,nothing more, and deserved their win but 2 of their goals shouldnt have stood .
Barcelona were very poor on the night and worryingly went down without a fight .Its something that has crept into their game over the last few months ,players with heads dropped in a match when losing ,I never saw that before ,its a very bad sign.

NIMAN

I think Messi may as well not have been on the pitch tonight.

And usually if he has a bad game, Iniesta and Xavi don't, but all 3 were kept quiet tonight, and I think if you can keep those 3 quiet, then the rest of the team are no better than the opposition and they are found out.

Can't say its the end of an era for them, they will have to get a few players in, but I just think we are seeing Bayern rise to the top, and with Pep and Geotze coming along with others next season, they will be a dominant force for a while. Plus Madrid seem to have worked out how to play against them as well.

The likes of Juve, Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea will have to strengthen big style to compete in the coming years.

Morzadec

smileyj1987 wrote: »

The Champions League has become very competitive again but it all depends on Villanovas ability to adapt make some tweaks and bring in a few new players . If they can get somebody to take the pressure off Messi for goals , a new defensive midfielder and a Center back I can see them shrugging off tonights loss as a live and learn thing .

Yes - to clarify I'm not writing off Barca's ability to challenge again. I'm not writing them off as a team and I'm sure they will reach at least the semis again next year.

All I'm saying is that I always saw them as the best team in Europe these last few years, unquestionably, and by a comfortable distance. Despite losses to Chelsea and Inter, I always felt they were definitely the best - the team to beat, the massive favourites throughout the tournament.

I don't feel that any more.

Boskowski

I don't think this is the time for gloating.
For starters this was just the first leg. It will take another performance like tonight to get into the final. Thinking the tie is over will get you nowhere as Bayern very nearly experienced against Arsenal. I'd say Heynckes was raging after the second Arsenal match and he will make sure thats not going to happen again.
And on a more macro scale, in football and in most other aspects of life things are cyclical. Barca is (was) the perfect footballing side for what, 5, 6 years now?
I never liked their style very much to watch as it doesn't make for very exciting football matches but they achieved greatness in what they did. My personal favourite is the early 90ies side with Guardiola in it (albeit in an also ran role) and Stoichkov, Laudrup, Romario & Koeman. They were fantastic to watch as they could kill you in an instant. 3 touches from box to box and boom.
Like I said I never liked tiki take very much but Barca have a history of producing fantastic sides and they still are one and they will be back for sure. Let's just hope they wait with their comeback until after the return leg.

Bayern can be very proud of themselves after todays match. They beat a truly great side and showed again that they themselves are one of the great European clubs.
All good.

smileyj1987

Morzadec wrote: »

Yes - to clarify I'm not writing off Barca's ability to challenge again. I'm not writing them off as a team and I'm sure they will reach at least the semis again next year.

All I'm saying is that I always saw them as the best team in Europe these last few years, unquestionably, and by a comfortable distance. Despite losses to Chelsea and Inter, I always felt they were definitely the best - the team to beat, the massive favourites throughout the tournament.

I don't feel that any more.

I think one team not dominating it will be a good thing for everybody . I would rather see any team from the quarters on wards have the ability to win it because it will make it a better tournament to watch .

This made me laugh !
http://www.gomezbutton.de/

Turtwig

Morzadec wrote: »

I have to agree with you. A lot of sense in this post.

It has been (and hopefully will continue to be) a pleasure to watch Barca over the last few years. I have been a massive fan of the way they play and they have been deserving of the success they have had over the last few years.

It's just the sheer wankery, the 'mes que un club', the 'greatest club on earth', the proud 'nation' bollocks, and the general self-satisfied smugness that comes out from some of their fans that make me somewhat want to jump on the anti-Barca bandwagon and lap up the tears ala Eric Cartman.

In a slight defence of their slogan. They're not just a football club. They're handball, basketball, rugby (yes rugby) and a Catalan cultural identity.

I know, some fanbhoys egg that slogan though for other reasons and frankly they deserve every comeuppance they get. I don't think it's fair to critise the club itself though for it.

Gorilla Rising

eagle eye wrote: »

I wasn't going to bother posting this but here goes. Anybody who is a lover of football could not possibly hate the current Barcelona. They have always played the game the right way and imposed their style on whoever got in their way.

I've never liked this 'they play the game the right way' argument.

The right way to play is to utilize the players you have at your disposal as best you can in order to win games.

It would be pretty baffling for Barcelona not to play the way they do given the talent of their squad.

Jelle1880

Diving and moaning about every decision is not playing the game 'the right way'.

They play attractive football, but not in the right spirit imo.