Could you see Man Utd going into a Liverpool style decline?

Lennonist

If Ferguson hangs around whoever takes over will have to work under his shadow. Mourinho is the only man who has the personality to create his own legacy especially if Ferguson is still around the place. If they can't get Mourinho there would likely be a hangover from the Ferguson era with a couple of managers who will struggle under his shadow until such time that he moves on.

Similar thing happened when Matt Busby quit as manager but was still at the club overshadowing whoever had succeeded him.

super_furry

How's United's current youth team/those coming through looking? Seems to have been a drop off in their home grown players over the last ten years or so, but I suppose a group Alan Hansen's 'kids' only come along once in a while

gosplan

Unless there's a huge shift in the financial parameters that generate success, Man u won't go the way of Liverpool.

Liverpool started slipping once they stopped winning because that's the way football was back.

Man U have such a huge global fanbase after 20 years of sustained success that they can get the next manager wrong, then the one after, and probably then give the job to Graham Souness for a while and still be feeding at the top table.

gosplan

super_furry wrote: »

How's United's current youth team/those coming through looking? Seems to have been a drop off in their home grown players over the last ten years or so, but I suppose a group Alan Hansen's 'kids' only come along once in a while

The kids don't matter anymore when you can sign Kagawa, Nani, Ronaldo, Tevez, Berbatov, Rooney, Carrick, Ferdinand, Vidic and so on and so forth.

The ability to attract fully developed top quality players is what will keep Utd at the top beyond Fergie, and that's just a question of transfer fees and wages.

Yeah, they'll have lost their edge over City and Chelsea but there's no way they'll drop out of the 'elite' bracket.

JJJJNR

Of course they will, there will be a merri go round of managers once SAF leaves, there will be a large gap between trophies once he goes, happens every club. Just enjoy the moment for what it is - LFC fan.

klose

Unless united bring in hodgson after fergie leaves then no they wont.

Pj!

Sappy404 wrote: »

Is there an indication that they'll "let the footballing people make the footballing decisions when it comes to Fergie stepping down"?

I think it's an opinion that a majority share. Of course we don't know until it happens.

Glazers are more business people than football people.

Will I Amnt

JJJJNR wrote: »

Of course they will, there will be a merri go round of managers once SAF leaves, there will be a large gap between trophies once he goes, happens every club. Just enjoy the moment for what it is - LFC fan.

How exactly does it happen every club?

JJJJNR

cambo2008 wrote: »

How exactly does it happen every club?

Opps Slip of the tongue, it happens to every club that have a long term manager that leaves, they'll need to "rebuild" the team.

Will I Amnt

JJJJNR wrote: »

Opps Slip of the tongue, it happens to every club that have a long term manager that leaves, they'll need to "rebuild" the team.

Depends on who is brought in. There's no blueprint that has to be followed. Whoever takes over will have a top squad and money for more players which gives you a pretty good chance if you have the managerial credentials.

Will I Amnt

super_furry wrote: »

How's United's current youth team/those coming through looking? Seems to have been a drop off in their home grown players over the last ten years or so, but I suppose a group Alan Hansen's 'kids' only come along once in a while

Plenty of kids in the first team squad already that will only get better.
De Gea, Smalling, Rafael, Jones, Welbeck. Powell has got some game time in, Zaha next season to come.

That's a pretty handy crew of young players to have in a squad and some positions sorted for the next decade if things go well.

super_furry

cambo2008 wrote: »

Plenty of kids in the first team squad already that will only get better.
De Gea, Smalling, Rafael, Jones, Welbeck. Powell has got some game time in, Zaha next season to come.

In fairness they were nearly all bought in - some for substantial fees. I was wondering more about United developed players

GavRedKing

Impossible to tell until SAF actually is gone but will make for some interesting viewing for the rest of English & European football.

eagle eye

cambo2008 wrote: »

Plenty of kids in the first team squad already that will only get better.
De Gea, Smalling, Rafael, Jones, Welbeck. Powell has got some game time in, Zaha next season to come.

That's a pretty handy crew of young players to have in a squad and some positions sorted for the next decade if things go well.

You still need the right man in charge though. Just look at Chelsea with Mata, Oscar, Hazard, Azpilicueta and Bertrand who all have plenty of time in. Then you have Moses, Romeu and Courtois who looks like one of the best young keepers in the world already. Lukaku, De Bruyne, Bruma, McEachran, Kakuta and Piazon have all got plenty of experience now too.

They didn't challenge for the title this year and they are still in a battle to make the top four. They didn't make the top four last season either but the penalty shootout win in the ECL saved them from not being involved this year. They need a top manager or these players will not make the difference they should in the coming years.

Will I Amnt

super_furry wrote: »

In fairness they were nearly all bought in - some for substantial fees. I was wondering more about United developed players

What difference does it make for a new manager? Isn't that what this thread is about?

Augmerson

I wonder if the global fan base that has often been mentioned in this thread so far will stick behind United should they dip in form and not be in as successful as they have been in a post-Ferguson future?

Blatter

eagle eye wrote: »

You still need the right man in charge though. Just look at Chelsea with Mata, Oscar, Hazard, Azpilicueta and Bertrand who all have plenty of time in. Then you have Moses, Romeu and Courtois who looks like one of the best young keepers in the world already. Lukaku, De Bruyne, Bruma, McEachran, Kakuta and Piazon have all got plenty of experience now too.

They didn't challenge for the title this year and they are still in a battle to make the top four. They didn't make the top four last season either but the penalty shootout win in the ECL saved them from not being involved this year. They need a top manager or these players will not make the difference they should in the coming years.

Then you can point to Avram Grant getting them to the CL final and in with a shout of winning the league on the final day of the season, Di Matteo winning the CL and FA Cup etc.

The impact of a manager vs the impact of the players isn't always that cut and dry.

Will I Amnt

eagle eye wrote: »

You still need the right man in charge though. Just look at Chelsea with Mata, Oscar, Hazard, Azpilicueta and Bertrand who all have plenty of time in. Then you have Moses, Romeu and Courtois who looks like one of the best young keepers in the world already. Lukaku, De Bruyne, Bruma, McEachran, Kakuta and Piazon have all got plenty of experience now too.

They didn't challenge for the title this year and they are still in a battle to make the top four. They didn't make the top four last season either but the penalty shootout win in the ECL saved them from not being involved this year. They need a top manager or these players will not make the difference they should in the coming years.

Of course you need the right man, that goes without saying.
I was merely stating the younger players that could be around for whoever it might be.

Let's face it, United wont be faffing about with the Hodgsons, Martinez and Rodgers of this world.

It will be a position where many a top manager will want to throw their hat in.

eagle eye

Blatter wrote: »

Then you can point to Avram Grant getting them to the CL final and in with a shout of winning the league on the final day of the season, Di Matteo winning the CL and FA Cup etc.

The impact of a manager vs the impact of the players isn't always that cut and dry.

You are talking about one season with Grant. I wouldn't expect a club to fall apart in one season but over a couple of years it can and will go wrong with a poor appointment or the wrong setup.

Its why I said earlier that when Ferguson goes he has to leave the club and the reason for that is the new man has to be seen as the boss. If Ferguson is still there then his presence will likely have an adverse affect on the club. Just imagine if they go through a rough patch, the fans and the media will start ask for Ferguson to return. Any player who is not happy or not getting his game will be looking to see his old manager hoping he can do something about it. I just cannot see it working out if he stays there.

pistolpetes11

Never a Liverpool style decline , maybe a few years when Alex fecks off ,

The problem with Liverpool was the old owners , let things go too far and now there too far behind and its no longer possible to lump loads of money in ,

Also like Chelsea there badly in need of a new stadium or a redevelopment of Anfield

eagle eye

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

Never a Liverpool style decline , maybe a few years when Alex fecks off ,

The problem with Liverpool was the old owners , let things go too far and now there too far behind and its no longer possible to lump loads of money in ,

Also like Chelsea there badly in need of a new stadium of a redevelopment of Anfield

United were always the biggest club with the most money in the league back in the 70s and early 80s when they had their rough times.

Augmerson

cambo2008 wrote: »

Of course you need the right man, that goes without saying.
I was merely stating the younger players that could be around for whoever it might be.

Let's face it, United wont be faffing about with the Hodgsons, Martinez and Rodgers of this world.

It will be a position where many a top manager will want to throw their hat in.

You'll be reminded that, although Ferguson had great success with Aberdeen in Scotland, there wasn't a big background of management or success beyond that. And initially, it took Ferguson some time to win anything with United, after attempts at rebuilding the squad with big money signings and the attitude at the club and halting the drinking culture. He came very close to being sacked at one point.

It may not be the top manager at the time that delivers for United. Patience and support will be paramount. I think Moyes would be a perfect replacement for Ferguson and many would say he is far from a top manager but I think he has what it takes.

missingtime

cambo2008 wrote: »

Of course you need the right man, that goes without saying.
I was merely stating the younger players that could be around for whoever it might be.

Let's face it, United wont be faffing about with the Hodgsons, Martinez and Rodgers of this world.

It will be a position where many a top manager will want to throw their hat in.

Ah go on. He's a good man manager.

Sappy404

gosplan wrote: »

Unless there's a huge shift in the financial parameters that generate success, Man u won't go the way of Liverpool.

Liverpool started slipping once they stopped winning because that's the way football was back.

Man U have such a huge global fanbase after 20 years of sustained success that they can get the next manager wrong, then the one after, and probably then give the job to Graham Souness for a while and still be feeding at the top table.

Liverpool slipped to 6th the year after they reached a club record league points total to finish 2nd. The problems were, ostensibly, caused by foolish owners and a lack of investment (knock-on effects included Benitez's attempts to sell Alonso for funds, signing awful players on Bosmans, rifts at the top etc.)

Many of the same financial circumstances are in place at United, and when a pillar of the club like Ferguson retires, anything could happen, even after a single year of expectations not being met. The Glazers seem to know that investment year-on-year is vital, however, so I reckon there's not that big a risk of a similar fall.

Will I Amnt

Augmerson wrote: »

You'll be reminded that, although Ferguson had great success with Aberdeen in Scotland, there wasn't a big background of management or success beyond that. And initially, it took Ferguson some time to win anything with United, after attempts at rebuilding the squad with big money signings and the attitude at the club and halting the drinking culture. He came very close to being sacked at one point.

It may not be the top manager at the time that delivers for United. Patience and support will be paramount. I think Moyes would be a perfect replacement for Ferguson and many would say he is far from a top manager but I think he has what it takes.

That was different back then. There was no reputation to lose. After such continued success I can't see any risks being taken

JJJJNR

I think the biggest threat to man.u losing their run is going to be the introduction of goal line technology.

jaykay74

JJJJNR wrote: »

I think the biggest threat to man.u losing their run is going to be the introduction of goal line technology.

As is usual the decisions that go in Utds favour years ago are remembered while the decisions that went against Utd much more recently are swiftly forgotten.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVq_EFD7BVE

pistolpetes11

A2LUE42 wrote: »

Chelsea will be in meltdown when all the interest free loans are called in. It only takes a few years of poor management for any club to fade, or if other clubs get a huge injection of cash, the mega rich can become the also rans.

The loans are not loans as good aul Roman wrote them off a few years back :P

A2LUE42

pistolpetes11 wrote: »

The loans are not loans as good aul Roman wrote them off a few years back :P

Missed that. Thought I had read recently that they were still outstanding.

Augmerson

cambo2008 wrote: »

That was different back then. There was no reputation to lose. After such continued success I can't see any risks being taken

Really? No reputation to lose pre-Ferguson era?

IvySlayer

Augmerson wrote: »

It may not be the top manager at the time that delivers for United. Patience and support will be paramount. I think Moyes would be a perfect replacement for Ferguson and many would say he is far from a top manager but I think he has what it takes.

Moyes has done good for Everton, but has won nothing. Nowhere near Man Utds level tbh. Fergie won trophies with lesser teams, Moyes has not.

Will I Amnt

Augmerson wrote: »

Really? No reputation to lose pre-Ferguson era?

We didn't have the reputation of best team in England, consistent league winners. We didn't have that weight of expectation.

Is there any Utd fans in here that went through the bad times? Know a few of my Dad's mates that have been following them since the 60's etc. Real Utd fans I call them (joke before I'm killed!)

It seems the age of posters in here is roughly 18-40 ? (13-40 during school holidays)

mike65

rarnes1 wrote: »

Is there any Utd fans in here that went through the bad times? Know a few of my Dad's mates that have been following them since the 60's etc. Real Utd fans I call them (joke before I'm killed!)

It seems the age of posters in here is roughly 18-40 ? (13-40 during school holidays)

Indeed so many nippers who at this stage must regard Fergie like a father figure! The pain of going into a new season knowing that Liverpool were almost certainly going to win either a league or European Cup must have been pretty galling at the time. Not mention the likes of Derby and Forest winning titles as they slumbered.

Lennonist

cambo2008 wrote: »

That was different back then. There was no reputation to lose. After such continued success I can't see any risks being taken

Whoever takes over will be a risk even if it's the very best around like Mourinho, because Ferguson will most likely be hanging around the place. Whoever takes over wont be good enough for him, he will cast a shadow over whoever gets the job.

I think MON should get it when Fergie goes. Waits for the Boards.ie anti-MON brigade:D...........

Al Capwned

rarnes1 wrote: »

Is there any Utd fans in here that went through the bad times? Know a few of my Dad's mates that have been following them since the 60's etc. Real Utd fans I call them (joke before I'm killed!)

It seems the age of posters in here is roughly 18-40 ? (13-40 during school holidays)

I'm 36 at the weekend, and I got my first package from OT on my 4th birthday in 1981.
Tbh however, I would say that my first sense of really supporting them was the FA Cup win in 85.

adox

rarnes1 wrote: »

Is there any Utd fans in here that went through the bad times? Know a few of my Dad's mates that have been following them since the 60's etc. Real Utd fans I call them (joke before I'm killed!)

It seems the age of posters in here is roughly 18-40 ? (13-40 during school holidays)

I`m 46. Do I qualify?:D


46:(

Al Capwned

adox wrote: »

I`m 46. Do I qualify?:D


46:(

Yay - stand beside me pal, make me feel younger.....

Mr.Micro

I think that Ferguson will be there for some time yet, so success will continue. I am sure that even he was relieved to win the PL, having won nothing last season and solely the PL this season, otherwise he might have thought his touch was going. When he leaves there might be a big adjustment to the team, as there appears to be no natural successor.

It will be interesting to see if Chelsea or Man City step up to the mark next season and compete with Man Utd. At least make the PL interesting and not over at Christmas or thereabouts like this season.

Super-Rush

When Fergie retires the referee's won't have the same pressure to give every questionable decision to Utd. Matches will no longer go into Fergie time either so the vast amounts of late goals will be gone as well.

I'd expect Utd to finish outside the top four the season he leaves and then slide down the table over the coming years. They'll be in League 1 by the end of the decade i reckon.

Mr.Micro

JJJJNR wrote: »

I think the biggest threat to man.u losing their run is going to be the introduction of goal line technology.

Could you imagine Ferguson ranting at a machine when not berating the fourth official, lol.

Augmerson

Mr.Micro wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if Chelsea or Man City step up to the mark next season and compete with Man Utd. At least make the PL interesting and not over at Christmas or thereabouts like this season.

Agreed. It got boring this season. The previous season was the best finish to any season, I don't think anybody will ever forget it. Sensational finish.

corcaigh07

Bad owners and a bad manager, anything could happen. You can be sure the whole Glazer/Green and Yellow scarfs situation will come back to the fold if United drop in standard and/or results.

Also, the job is definitely a poisoned chalice. Whoever takes it will have to do a near-perfect job to better Fergie.

It will be very surprising if they slip to current Liverpool standards though. Without Fergie, I could see them falling to a top 4 standard team and even then, only temporarily.

adox

adox wrote: »

I`m 46. Do I qualify?:D


46:(

Yeah you do, well you were 25 or so when you broke the 26 years without a league and won it in 92/93.

I remember my Dad used to laugh at Utd's barren run every year

IvySlayer

I only started supporting United to piss off my Leeds supporting Dad, haven't regretted it once :P

CSF

IvySlayer wrote: »

I only started supporting United because they were the best, haven't regretted it once :P

FYP:D

dd972

[-0-] wrote: »

As soon as Fergie retires and Roy Keane takes over.

BREAKING NEWS : Roy Keane set to take Man Utd job....also, Ice Rink set to open in Hell !

colly_06

bump.

djPSB

They will never go into a Liverpool type decline.

The Board room decisions over the next year or so will determine how successful the club will be over the next decade.

Pepe LeFrits

They'll go into decline, just like Madrid did when they sacked... ah, never mind.