why are umemployed given money for nothing?

Devi

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

€190 per week ,hard supporting a family on that, if you are just talking about single people, might be a idea and do way with internship,for full time jobs.

No €290 (minimum wage) with goverment support , which I agree is hard but people do live of it.

SCOOP 64

Most on minimum wage with familys would get Family income support to help anyway ,would this be lost under government top up under your idea?
i think your idea would suit the young long term unemployed living at home with mum and dad (not a dig at these people now) your idea is a good one.

wolfpawnat

I find it sickening that people who have only been on the live register since the recession and would rather be working getting several letters saying go back and do another leaving (I already have two leaving certs, but now I have a child too! So I don't see how I would get a better result this time to be honest) and yet I know people that have NEVER worked not even getting a "prove you've tried to find work" request! :mad:

Devi

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Most on minimum wage with familys would get Family income support to help anyway ,would this be lost under government top up under your idea?
i think your idea would suit the young long term unemployed living at home with mum and dad (not a dig at these people now) your idea is a good one.

No I don’t FIS should be lost in this scenario, the €100 euro would be to incentives the employer, if the employee is still eligible for FIS then he should still get it.

To be honest it was an idea I just picked out of thin air, but my main point is, if we want to get people off the dole we need to support and incentives private enterprise to create jobs and reduce social welfare dependence. Both of these need to go hand in hand I believe.

SCOOP 64

i find that too , if you are not long unemployed you will get the "prove your looking for work interview often, but some of the long term seem untouchable,
I'm sure welfare have a list of no hopers who have never been employed, because no one will employ them, but what can you do with these people ,you cant let them starve.

wolfpawnat

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

i find that too , if you are not long unemployed you will get the "prove your looking for work interview often, but some of the long term seem untouchable,
I'm sure welfare have a list of no hopers who will never been employed, because no one will employ them, but what can you do with these people ,you cant let them starve.

But they should have to have the same paperwork as the rest of us. I spend money printing CV's and a little filing folder to keep my rejection letters so they can see I am trying, then you see "Anto" with his 150e tracksuit and Nike Air runners I couldn't afford in a month of Sundays talking about his tips for the racing day in the queue behind you to sign on and you just wonder why do they annoy me when he clearly couldn't give a fúck!!!!!!

Devi

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

i find that too , if you are not long unemployed you will get the "prove your looking for work interview often, but some of the long term seem untouchable,
I'm sure welfare have a list of no hopers who will never been employed, because no one will employ them, but what can you do with these people ,you cant let them starve.

That’s basically it, I was talking to a guy who works for the local FAS and he said his computer only shows people who are 2 or less years unemployed, logic being the no hopers are a waste of resources.

Devi

wolfpawnat wrote: »

But they should have to have the same paperwork as the rest of us. I spend money printing CV's and a little filing folder to keep my rejection letters so they can see I am trying, then you see "Anto" with his 150e tracksuit and Nike Air runners I couldn't afford in a month of Sundays talking about his tips for the racing day in the queue behind you to sign on and you just wonder why do they annoy me when he clearly couldn't give a fúck!!!!!!

Have you considered doing a springboard course wolfpawnat? I started one last year and I have to say, best decision since being let go. Really gives you a sense of direction again, something to focus on and hopefully a job.

wolfpawnat

Devi wrote: »

Have you considered doing a springboard course wolfpawnat? I started one last year and I have to say, best decision since being let go. Really gives you a sense of direction again, something to focus on and hopefully a job.

I was requested to go on a TUS scheme this year, but I had an unplanned pregnancy So they cannot take me for insurance reasons They said they would offer me something again in the future a little after it is born.

SCOOP 64

To be honest it was an idea I just picked out of thin air, but my main point is, if we want to get people off the dole we need to support and incentives private enterprise to create jobs and reduce social welfare dependence. Both of these need to go hand in hand I believe.[/QUOTE]

Maybe out of thin air ,but at least its a idea, refreshing change from the "begrudger" or on the high horse lot, i have a job, my taxes pay your dole and i hate it.
most of the 426000 on the dole would rather be working. but of cause you will always have the few who wont work, this will never change.

Devi

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I was requested to go on a TUS scheme this year, but I had an unplanned pregnancy So they cannot take me for insurance reasons They said they would offer me something again in the future a little after it is born.

Next year take a look at springboard, there are distance courses, learn at your own pace when you’re not busy with the baby. By the time the baby is going to school you’ll have your degree and hopefully the economy will have improved.:)

Devi

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

To be honest it was an idea I just picked out of thin air, but my main point is, if we want to get people off the dole we need to support and incentives private enterprise to create jobs and reduce social welfare dependence. Both of these need to go hand in hand I believe.

Maybe out of thin air ,but at least its a idea, refreshing change from the "begrudger" or on the high horse lot, i have a job, my taxes pay your dole and i hate it.
most of the 426000 on the dole would rather be working. but of cause you will always have the few who wont work, this will never change.[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean, I have a brother who must be convinced dam near half a million people just decided to be unemployed over night, he works for the council so the chances of him ever eating his words are slim.:mad:

wolfpawnat

Devi wrote: »

Next year take a look at springboard, there are distance courses, learn at your own pace when you’re not busy with the baby. By the time the baby is going to school you’ll have your degree and hopefully the economy will have improved.:)

Distance learning is something I need. I was in college, creche was €1000 a month, for students! Daddy will be qualified next year, and his field has employment and a good wage pack so we will hopefully be away from this soon! But I want my own degree and to get back working too. It's weird, as a youngster I worked every weekend and moaned about it (not the money though, that was great) and now I look at those jobs and wish I had them now! I rather scrub toilets and change dirty bedsheets than head to the SW again next week

Qualitymark

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Distance learning is something I need. I was in college, creche was €1000 a month, for students! Daddy will be qualified next year, and his field has employment and a good wage pack so we will hopefully be away from this soon! But I want my own degree and to get back working too. It's weird, as a youngster I worked every weekend and moaned about it (not the money though, that was great) and now I look at those jobs and wish I had them now! I rather scrub toilets and change dirty bedsheets than head to the SW again next week

There are some brilliant free courses run by some of the best universities in the world on Coursera - they're heavier on the tech courses. You get homework and everything.

katy67

The problem with TUS, CE, job bridge etc, they are only temporary. Of course it would be fine for 9/12 months, learn new skills etc, but you will never get a proper permanent job with them, so after doing them, you're back on the dole. Maybe only with jobridge you might be lucky to get a job but for how long.

There isn't enough jobs, some are contract, part time,etc but most of them are not permnaent jobs.
People are still leaving this country to look for jobs abroard as they cannot get jobs and don't want to be on the dole:(

Its a disaster

skafish

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

i find that too , if you are not long unemployed you will get the "prove your looking for work interview often, but some of the long term seem untouchable,
I'm sure welfare have a list of no hopers who have never been employed, because no one will employ them, but what can you do with these people ,you cant let them starve.

These are the ones I would cut the dole from; just give them food stamps. Why should I pay for their fags and beer when I can't afford a social life for myself?

skafish

Sadderday wrote: »

I got one and I'm assuming 14 others were successful.

I'm just saying that I was really dedicated and spent a long time personalising cover letters and paid a small amount to have my CV guccied up.

I dropped into places with the CVs, called, emailed directly... just showed a real interest.

It's hard but not impossible.

There is, additionally, the downstream effect of your getting that job, especially if it is a new post and you are not replacing someone who left/ moved on.
Actuarial statistics show that for each new job created, the additional spend in the local national economy leads to the creation of a percentage (not sure, but I think it's about 20%) of another job indirectly. So for every 5 new jobs created, a 6th is created to support the first five in other parts of the economy
Sorry if thats badly explained, but I hope you understand the point.

PS good luck in the new job.:)

cikearney

s20101938 wrote: »

THERE ARE NO JOBS! GET IT?

]there are jobs, just jobs people arent willing to do or are too lazy to do. I'm not saying everyone is like this but alot of people are.

Don't tell me there are no jobs most shops you walk into are looking for deli staff, pubs looking for staff, packing boxes in hewlitt packard, loads of jobs every where. You might not be selected but there are jobs.

Plus there is no incentive to work, why would you give up €188 to work 36 hours day/ night shift for €320,,,,,,, no incentive![/

cikearney

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

No doubt there are jobs out there , one got the job, maybe 25 or more didn't.
still not enough jobs too go a round.

But if your not in, you can't win

fr3d12

Like every other Govt. Dept. social welfare haemorrhaging money through mismanagement and inefficiency. A huge chunk of the budget is paid on rent allowance to private landlords for what is basically slum accommodation but there are thousands of houses built or nearly built in ghost estates that with the badly needed job investment funds could be finished and thus create jobs at the same time.
It's one thing saying put the long term unemployed out working for the community etc but what about the women who by 25 have 3-4 kids and receiving benefits in the multiples of any single man and whether by choice or discrimination etc most of these women are unemployed for life!
What about another "group" in our country who receive life long benefits while also from what I see make huge amounts of money doing other things,these people are not asked to look for work or contribute to society in any way,shape or form.
Irelands social problems need to be tackled head on and the savings made across many departments would be astronomical.

qvsr46ofgc792k

nino1 wrote: »

I would like to debate this point. Just this specific point.
Why are people on the dole not made to work 20 hours or so a week for their dole money?
This would still leave them with loads of time to seek employment and at least they would be doing something productive for their money rather than getting hand outs.

Seems very legit and a valid argument however:

I work part-time, 20 hours a week. For what I do this is vital for me and saves me from having to claim the social welfare.

There are thousands upon thousands of students working part time.

There are over 400'000 thousand people on social welfare and if everyone of these has to work for there benefits what happens to people like me and students?

A job is far more likely to hire someone for free.

Students will not be able to claim. So there screwed.
I on the other hand will be able to however only this time coming out of the tax payers pocket, and not forgetting the fact taking a tax payer away. A double blow.

Thats why to me, this idea is useless.

Qualitymark

fr3d12 wrote: »

It's one thing saying put the long term unemployed out working for the community etc but what about the women who by 25 have 3-4 kids and receiving benefits in the multiples of any single man and whether by choice or discrimination etc most of these women are unemployed for life!

This is a great point. But a little problem. Although single mothers (which is what I assume you're talking about) get a lot of publicity, they are a tiny, tiny proportion of the unemployed.
And the number of single parents with multiple children is a minuscule proportion - so the figures show, despite all the "but my neighbour..." stories.
It would certainly be a great idea for single mothers to get targeted training - for instance, if some could be trained as plumbers and electricians, many other women would far prefer to have a woman come into their homes to do this work than a man. This work would be good, as it can be done to a great extent at times you choose, so it could be done when the kids are in school.
There are a couple of problems with this plan, though. For a start, the numbers are so tiny that investing in targeted training for these would not be a good use of resources.
If such training were to work, it would have to be run during school hours (unlike FÁS courses, which were useless to most single parents because they were full-time).
And because the numbers nationally are tiny, for any course to work (to get the requisite numbers), it would mean giving people fares to come to a central location, and paying for childcare while they were doing the course, and paying for their accommodation during the course. Since any such course would take several months, this deprivation of parenting could also have a deleterious effect on the welfare of the children of those being trained.

zenno

It seems like companies/businesses are already banned from taking on interns for letting go paid workers and using interns for free labour. The tip of the iceberg i'd say...

A total of 211 companies that have employed interns under the Government’s JobBridge scheme have been investigated by the Department of Social Protection.

Of the companies axed from the scheme, four are in Dublin, two in Cork and one each in counties Laois, Meath, Tipperary, Sligo, Kildare, Galway and Westmeath. The department would not release company names for data protection reasons

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/employment/department-investigates-over-200-complaints-into-conduct-of-jobbridge-firms-1.1351863

OU812

OU812 wrote: »

You're not allowed to do that on the dole. You have to be available for work & if you're volunteering somewhere, you're not. ****ty system.

As far as I know, all Vincent dePaul shops are run by FAS CE Schemes.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

We need a system where dole is paid for a maximum of 52 weeks in any 10 year period. Then we need a community employment scheme where anyone can work 3 days a week for €200 in their local community. It won't save money but it creates a fair system. Also on this system people on the dole shouldn't be required to seek employment.

This is a good idea, but is already being done through the Community Employment and TUS Schemes. You are suggesting people are paid €10 an hour, which is more than minimum wage. Why have the minimum wage at all, if unemployed people can earn more per hour on these schemes? Some people on CE Schemes are getting much more than the €208 single rate, depending on their circumstances. If they have 2 children and an unemployed partner, they are getting €392 a week which is more than the equivalent of the minimum wage for a 40 hour week . Crazy situation.

Qualitymark

We need a system where there's work for everyone.

SCOOP 64

cikearney wrote: »

But if your not in, you can't win

Thats the trouble ,too many people are in it!

srsly78

Qualitymark wrote: »

We need a system where there's work for everyone.

You can create lots of jobs doing stuff like breaking big rocks into small rocks etc... but the problem is these "make work" jobs are not really productive - they add nothing to the economy. It's actually better to let people sit around doing nothing, at least they can relax/train/whatever then.

Similarly if you make the unemployed sweep the streets, you are then putting street sweepers out of work.

And finally, you could stimulate the construction sector and employ huge amounts of people in labouring jobs. But I don't think I need to point out the downside of that one.

What IS good is investment in capital projects - building motorways and so on. This creates work, and pays dividends in the future. The problem is we don't have the cash to pay for this, and we are already borrowing loads as it is.

Barracuda1

srsly78 wrote: »

You can create lots of jobs doing stuff like breaking big rocks into small rocks etc... but the problem is these "make work" jobs are not really productive - they add nothing to the economy. It's actually better to let people sit around doing nothing, at least they can relax/train/whatever then.

Similarly if you make the unemployed sweep the streets, you are then putting street sweepers out of work.

And finally, you could stimulate the construction sector and employ huge amounts of people in labouring jobs. But I don't think I need to point out the downside of that one.

What IS good is investment in capital projects - building motorways and so on. This creates work, and pays dividends in the future. The problem is we don't have the cash to pay for this, and we are already borrowing loads as it is.

You could go to work on the national secondary routes like the N52/N80/N62.The councils all ready have in machinery and start by taking the dangerous section out of the road and take on the unemployed to do this work. This would save millions for the state and would provide an outlet for people instead of their well being diminishing day after day. Every county council has the plant to do this work yet the state employs companies to do so

srsly78

Yep that would be a great idea - one problem - unions.

Cody Pomeray

srsly78 wrote: »

What IS good is investment in capital projects - building motorways and so on. This creates work, and pays dividends in the future. The problem is we don't have the cash to pay for this, and we are already borrowing loads as it is.

Not more motorways.

Aren't we going through a bout of motorway fatigue yet?

There are lots of other interesting capital projects...

Qualitymark

Well, I meant productive work that would bring money into the country!

Nothing wrong with working people having unions to negotiate for them. The problem at the moment is that the unions have become another layer of well-paid bureaucracy.