Letting agent inspecting house while renters not present

KBarry

Hi,
I just had a call from the agents we are letting our house through. Apparently they inspect their properties every three months which was news to me. Although I have rented seven or eight houses over the years, and only ever had one inspection from a landlord, I have no problem with this.

What is bugging me a bit is them being rather vague about times. "It'll be some time on Monday afternoon.It doesn't matter if you're not there." The implication being if we're not there they would just let themselves in and wander about the house.

As far as I know landlords can only access the property in case of emergency, or am I mistaken?

Tigger

That reminds me would you babysit my attack dog for me next Monday

smellslikeshoes

You are the boss in this situation, this is YOUR home. If you are not comfortable with their vagueness about times tell them it doesn't suit you. Make it clear you are not willing to have them enter your home without you there. If they try enter your home without permission call the Gardai.

fasttalkerchat

Tell them that under no circumstances may they enter your home without prior approval and supervision.
The only exception is in an emergency such as fire or water leak.

jd83

As the other posters said , you choose a time that suits you. If they so much as stick a key in your front door without you been there call the cops. Unbelievable, what's the name of the letting company so I can avoid them like the plague. 3 monthly inspections while perfectly legal are a load of b**lox also

the world wonders

KBarry wrote: »

As far as I know landlords can only access the property in case of emergency, or am I mistaken?

They are legally entitled to inspect the property, however they must give reasonable notice and must ask your permission in advance:

Residential Tenancies Act, 2004 wrote:

16.—In addition to the obligations arising by or under any other Obligations of enactment, a tenant of a dwelling shall—
...
(c) allow, at reasonable intervals, the landlord, or any person or persons acting on the landlord’s behalf, access to the dwelling (on a date and time agreed in advance with the tenant) for the purposes of inspecting the dwelling

You may not unreasonably refuse permission however I'd say it's completely reasonable to insist on being present.

As mentioned by the other posters, every three months is a bit much, so if I were you I'd be tempted to play hardball and tell them that the only time that suits you is before 7am or after 8pm.

Duckjob

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

You are the boss in this situation, this is YOUR home. If you are not comfortable with their vagueness about times tell them it doesn't suit you. Make it clear you are not willing to have them enter your home without you there. If they try enter your home without permission call the Gardai.

Agreed, and put it in writing - email is fine.

Make sure you re-iterate in your email what they have said about letting themselves in if you are not there, and respond to that directly.

Tell them that you do not consent to them or anyone else entering your home without you being present and if they do they will have committed a criminal offence and Gardai will be called.

IME a lot of estate agents have a shockingly bad attitude towards tenants.

djimi

Duckjob wrote: »

Agreed, and put it in writing - email is fine.

Make sure you re-iterate in your email what they have said about letting themselves in if you are not there, and respond to that directly.

Tell them that you do not consent to them or anyone else entering your home without you being present and if they do they will have committed a criminal offence and Gardai will be called.

IME a lot of estate agents have a shockingly bad attitude towards tenants.

I agree with this, but not about putting it in email; any official correspondance should be in registered letter form only. Email/text is not sufficient imo.

I would go so far as to go through the tenancy act and quote the relevant parts regarding notice period of inspections, the fact that a landlord/agent cannot enter a rental property without the tenants prior concent, and also the part about the tenants right to quiet enjoyment of the property.

makeorbrake

Email is ideal - it means there's an undisputed electronic record - and clarity as regards the communication (whereas phone conversation is heresay).


Agree that they should be allowed to inspect but if I were the tenant, I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with not being there when they do.

valleyoftheunos

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

You are the boss in this situation, this is YOUR home. If you are not comfortable with their vagueness about times tell them it doesn't suit you. Make it clear you are not willing to have them enter your home without you there. If they try enter your home without permission call the Gardai.

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Tell them that under no circumstances may they enter your home without prior approval and supervision.
The only exception is in an emergency such as fire or water leak.

jd83 wrote: »

As the other posters said , you choose a time that suits you. If they so much as stick a key in your front door without you been there call the cops. Unbelievable, what's the name of the letting company so I can avoid them like the plague. 3 monthly inspections while perfectly legal are a load of b**lox also

These responses (and a few others) are way over the top, email the letting agent telling them that you consent to the inspection but only when you are present and give them the times you are available. Be firm but not threatening, do not quote legislation at them, the Agent knows all the legislation backwards.

If they do go ahead and inspect without you being there (I'd be stunned if they did without you agreeing first) don't call the guards, call the agent and read the riot act to them, tell them you are going to complain, in writing to them, the PRTB and the Landlord directly. Then do that.

valleyoftheunos

makeorbrake wrote: »

Email is ideal - it means there's an undisputed electronic record - and clarity as regards the communication (whereas phone conversation is heresay).


Agree that they should be allowed to inspect but if I were the tenant, I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with not being there when they do.

I've been an inspector and an inspectee, if everything is in order there is no great need to have the tenant present, it's totally up to them of course.

makeorbrake

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I've been an inspector and an inspectee, if everything is in order there is no great need to have the tenant present, it's totally up to them of course.

There's no great need in the minds of those inspecting. Personally, I wouldn't want anyone mooching around my stuff unsupervised - but that's just me. Relating it back to the OP's comments, it's clear that they are not comfortable with this either.
A letting agent should already be aware of such concerns and accommodate the tenant in that regard.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Install new locks on all the inside doors. Then lock every single room. They can inspect hallways and stairs to their hearts content.

makeorbrake

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Install new locks on all the inside doors. Then lock every single room. They can inspect hallways and stairs to their hearts content.

There is a legitimate reason to inspect - so allow them to do so. Just ensure that it is carried out in your presence - and not at any other time.

wolfpawnat

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I've been an inspector and an inspectee, if everything is in order there is no great need to have the tenant present, it's totally up to them of course.

Except of course, it is the tenants home and everything from their change bowl to their "adult supplies" are there and they would not be. Also I am not sure about others, but I keep things in my home of sentimental and monetary value and they are hidden in wardrobes and the like. I would not think to check them daily, but if I found out my LL or LA was in my home without my consent, well then I would go insane.

Also, my house is not always tidy. Clean yes, but not tidy. Sometimes I may have folded underwear ready to be put back in presses after a wash, left on my couch, the thought of my undies being on display would not be pleasant.

And of course, as discussed before on other threads, if there is an issue it is better discussed with the tenant at that time as opposed to a later date. It can be dealt with there and then or arrangements can be made to have it dealt with soon without hassle and fuss if both parties agree.

Kosseegan

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

do not quote legislation at them, the Agent knows all the legislation backwards.

.

The next time I meet an agent who knows the legislation properly it will be a first.

valleyoftheunos

makeorbrake wrote: »

There's no great need in the minds of those inspecting. Personally, I wouldn't want anyone mooching around my stuff unsupervised - but that's just me. Relating it back to the OP's comments, it's clear that they are not comfortable with this either.
A letting agent should already be aware of such concerns and accommodate the tenant in that regard.

Tenants always seem convinced that they and their belongings are fascinating to agents and landlords and that given the opportunity they will be rooting through drawers and laughing at their CD collections.

The truth is that agents and landlords have zero interest in tenant's or their personal lives. Inspections are a pain, they are time out of the office and finding time to do them is awkward enough. If an agent can get a tenant to agree to let them do it without them present it makes life much much easier for the agent and ultimately for the tenant. That's the only reason they ask.

There is only so much an Agent can do to accommodate a tenant, agents have families and social lives too its not realistic or reasonable to expect them to carry out their business after hours to suit a single tenant, tenants should be willing to meet the agent somewhere in the middle.

valleyoftheunos

Tyson Sharp Vigilante wrote: »

Install new locks on all the inside doors. Then lock every single room. They can inspect hallways and stairs to their hearts content.

Adding or changing locks would be in breach of the lease.

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Except of course, it is the tenants home and everything from their change bowl to their "adult supplies" are there and they would not be. Also I am not sure about others, but I keep things in my home of sentimental and monetary value and they are hidden in wardrobes and the like. I would not think to check them daily, but if I found out my LL or LA was in my home without my consent, well then I would go insane.

No one is talking about being there without your consent, if you consent to the inspection taking place without your presence surely you can put your "Adult supplies" away? not that anyone will be looking for them. If things are in a cupboard or drawer, they will stay there. No routine inspection should involve opening any drawers, cupboards or closets except perhaps in the kitchen.

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Also, my house is not always tidy. Clean yes, but not tidy. Sometimes I may have folded underwear ready to be put back in presses after a wash, left on my couch, the thought of my undies being on display would not be pleasant.

If its an inspection of which you have had proper notice the house should be both clean and tidy and if you're embarassed by your undies I'm sure you can remember to put them away:p

wolfpawnat wrote: »

And of course, as discussed before on other threads, if there is an issue it is better discussed with the tenant at that time as opposed to a later date. It can be dealt with there and then or arrangements can be made to have it dealt with soon without hassle and fuss if both parties agree.

I'd agree with this wholeheartedly, as I said, if everything is in order, the need for the tenant's presence is not great.

Kosseegan wrote: »

The next time I meet an agent who knows the legislation properly it will be a first.

I haven't met one worth their salt that doesn't.

thegreatiam

As a quick aside.
The landlord/agent needs to arrange a suitable time you agree on for an inspection. What constitutes a reasonable time?
If the tenant worked shifts could they insist that the visit only take place at 2am?

I ask cos I worked night for a long time and it frustrated me the way Id be expected to comply with meeting at 3pm
Would I be within my rights to refuse a day time interruption?

makeorbrake

thegreatiam wrote: »

I ask cos I worked night for a long time and it frustrated me the way Id be expected to comply with meeting at 3pm
Would I be within my rights to refuse a day time interruption?

If you work nights, then late afternoon/early evening would be reasonable. Having worked nights years ago, from what I recall I was always up from late afternoon/early evening onwards. I'd be of the same mind - i.e. you can't have people waking you up in the middle of your 'nights' sleep.

valleyoftheunos wrote:

Tenants always seem convinced that they and their belongings are fascinating to agents and landlords and that given the opportunity they will be rooting through drawers and laughing at their CD collections.

The truth is that agents and landlords have zero interest in tenant's or their personal lives.

I'd expect that to be the case in 99.9% of cases. Arranging a mutual time for the inspection is just commonsense and common courtesy. Lets not forget the tenant is also the customer (although of course a letting agency won't see it that way - whatever about a landlord).

valleyoftheunos wrote:

There is only so much an Agent can do to accommodate a tenant, agents have families and social lives too its not realistic or reasonable to expect them to carry out their business after hours to suit a single tenant, tenants should be willing to meet the agent somewhere in the middle.

Agents are paid to do the job. If they don't like it, then they should go do something else. If the tenant is out at work all day - and it's clear that they can't reasonably accomodate a daytime inspection, then tough.
As regards meeting somewhere in the middle - absolutely ...i.e. by mutual consent.

djimi

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Tenants always seem convinced that they and their belongings are fascinating to agents and landlords and that given the opportunity they will be rooting through drawers and laughing at their CD collections.

The truth is that agents and landlords have zero interest in tenant's or their personal lives. Inspections are a pain, they are time out of the office and finding time to do them is awkward enough. If an agent can get a tenant to agree to let them do it without them present it makes life much much easier for the agent and ultimately for the tenant. That's the only reason they ask.

Its the idea of letting a complete stranger into their home when they are not there is what would put most people off an unsupervised inspection. While its entirely probable that they are trustworthy, its the fact that you just dont know. I doubt anyone would be entirely happy to let a stranger into their home unsupervised, regardless of the circumstance.

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

There is only so much an Agent can do to accommodate a tenant, agents have families and social lives too its not realistic or reasonable to expect them to carry out their business after hours to suit a single tenant, tenants should be willing to meet the agent somewhere in the middle.

Tenants are in no way obliged to go out of their way to allow a landlord/agent inspect the property. Certainly not if it means having to rearrange/miss out on working hours to accommodate an inspection. You want to look around my home? Fine. You want to do it Mon-Fri between 9 and 5? Its simply not going to happen.

Duckjob

I agree about meeting in the middle, and the tenant shouldn't be arse-y just for the sake of it. I always made the effort to accomodate my LL and he me - probably why we got on great for the entire 10+ yrs I rented from him.

Like so many things in life - so much hangs on the approach and as I said in my last post, many agents have a terrible attitude towards tenants - like they are peasants with no rights because they don't own property.

If the agent said, "listen, it's difficult to co-ordinate a time with you there - would you mind if we let ourselves on tuesday afternoon in to do it ? - Will be there for 5-10 mins max and then we won't be disturbing your privacy when you're there" - I daresay that would would get a more positive response.

An EA on the other hand who dogmatically says "we're going to let ourselves in and it doesnt matter whether you're there or not" - is taking a very disrespectful approach and IMO needs to have the legislation quoted at him. And if, having been told he is not to enter, he still goes ahead and enters the tenants home, then the Gardai should definitely be involved.

valleyoftheunos

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'd expect that to be the case in 99.9% of cases. Arranging a mutual time for the inspection is just commonsense and common courtesy. Lets not forget the tenant is also the customer (although of course a letting agency won't see it that way - whatever about a landlord).

Its the landlords that pay the agents fees so they are the customers/clients.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Agents are paid to do the job. If they don't like it, then they should go do something else. If the tenant is out at work all day - and it's clear that they can't reasonably accomodate a daytime inspection, then tough.
As regards meeting somewhere in the middle - absolutely ...i.e. by mutual consent.

That is neither reasonable nor correct, don't forget that the tenant is obliged to allow "reasonable access", that doesn't mean before 7am and after 8pm. If they cant arrange with the LL or agent, to be present at a reasonable time, they will have to allow the access to go ahead without them.

djimi

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

That is neither reasonable nor correct, don't forget that the tenant is obliged to allow "reasonable access", that doesn't mean before 7am and after 8pm. If they cant arrange with the LL or agent, to be present at a reasonable time, they will have to allow the access to go ahead without them.

The tenant must allow reasonable access to the property for inspections. Expecting a tenant to give access during working hours when they themselves work a 9-5 job is not reasonable. If the landlord or their agent wish to carry out an inspection then they must expect that it will be at a time when it is reasonable to expect the tenant to be able to accommodate the inspection. There is nothing in law that I am aware of that says that the tenant must allow the inspection to take place during the working hours of the agent, nor am I aware of anything that says that the tenant must allow the landlord access to the property while they are not there to carry out an inspection.

valleyoftheunos

Duckjob wrote: »

I agree about meeting in the middle, and the tenant shouldn't be arse-y just for the sake of it. I always made the effort to accomodate my LL and he me - probably why we got on great for the entire 10+ yrs I rented from him.

Like so many things in life - so much hangs on the approach and as I said in my last post, many agents have a terrible attitude towards tenants - like they are peasants with no rights because they don't own property.

If the agent said, "listen, it's difficult to co-ordinate a time with you there - would you mind if we let ourselves on tuesday afternoon in to do it ? - Will be there for 5-10 mins max and then we won't be disturbing your privacy when you're there" - I daresay that would would get a more positive response.

An EA on the other hand who dogmatically says "we're going to let ourselves in and it doesnt matter whether you're there or not" - is taking a very disrespectful approach and IMO needs to have the legislation quoted at him. And if, having been told he is not to enter, he still goes ahead and enters the tenants home, then the Gardai should definitely be involved.

there are two possible readings to "It doesnt matter whether you're there or not" and I'm not sure that it's meant as you think it is.

You might be within your rights to call the Guards but does that mean it's a good idea? Will it solve anything? Is it going to improve relations between you and the agent or landlord? A good relationship with the LL or Agent makes renting so much easier.

valleyoftheunos

djimi wrote: »

The tenant must allow reasonable access to the property for inspections. Expecting a tenant to give access during working hours when they themselves work a 9-5 job is not reasonable. If the landlord or their agent wish to carry out an inspection then they must expect that it will be at a time when it is reasonable to expect the tenant to be able to accommodate the inspection. There is nothing in law that I am aware of that says that the tenant must allow the inspection to take place during the working hours of the agent, nor am I aware of anything that says that the tenant must allow the landlord access to the property while they are not there to carry out an inspection.

Similarly I'm not aware of any legislation or decision that says access must be at the tenant's convenience nor any legislation or decision that the tenant must be present for access to go ahead.

djimi

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

there are two possible readings to "It doesnt matter whether you're there or not" and I'm not sure that it's meant as you think it is.

You might be within your rights to call the Guards but does that mean it's a good idea? Will it solve anything? Is it going to improve relations between you and the agent or landlord? A good relationship with the LL or Agent makes renting so much easier.

Its very hard to have good a good relationship with a landlord/agent who thinks that they can ride roughshod over a tenants rights. Im all for trying to maintain a good relationship with your landord; obviously its what every tenant ultimately wants, but if youre dealing with someone who does not show any regard for you or for your rights, then you need to stand up for yourself and show that you will not allow yourself to be walked over.

Whether calling the Gardai is the right move I dont know.

the_syco

KBarry wrote: »

What is bugging me a bit is them being rather vague about times. "It'll be some time on Monday afternoon.It doesn't matter if you're not there." The implication being if we're not there they would just let themselves in and wander about the house.

Tell them that if you're not there to let them in, you'll view their intrusion as unwanted trespass, for as long as you pay the rent, it's your house, not theirs.

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

the Agent knows all the legislation backwards.

A lot don't, it would seem.

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

Similarly I'm not aware of any legislation or decision that says access must be at the tenant's convenience nor any legislation or decision that the tenant must be present for access to go ahead.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tenants_rights_and_obligations.html#lca76f
"Your landlord is only allowed to enter your home with your permission"

=-=

If anything goes missing, report it to the Gardai, esp if you have already told the EA not to enter the house whilst you're not there.

valleyoftheunos

the_syco wrote: »

Tell them that if you're not there to let them in, you'll view their intrusion as unwanted trespass, for as long as you pay the rent, it's your house, not theirs.

Thats oversimplyfiying matters to breaking point

the_syco wrote: »

A lot don't, it would seem.

I'm only commenting on the agents I have dealt with over the years, all of whom were very well informed.

the_syco wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/tenants_rights_and_obligations.html#lca76f
"Your landlord is only allowed to enter your home with your permission"
=-=

I've never said otherwise, you have misunderstood the point myself and Djimi were discussing.

the_syco wrote: »

If anything goes missing, report it to the Gardai, esp if you have already told the EA not to enter the house whilst you're not there.

That would be theft and an outrageous breach of trust and professionalism. Of course calling the Gardai would be the appropriate step to take.

Tigger

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

There is only so much an Agent can do to accommodate a tenant, agents have families and social lives too its not realistic or reasonable to expect them to carry out their business after hours to suit a single tenant, tenants should be willing to meet the agent somewhere in the middle.

if a tenant works 9-6 then they cant meet the agent during office hours without taking time off
why should they take time off ?

fasttalkerchat

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

I've been an inspector and an inspectee, if everything is in order there is no great need to have the tenant present, it's totally up to them of course.

What if you're accused of theft? You need to protect yourself as well as thinking about the tenants rights.