AIB Card Reader

damian01211

Hi Guys.

Yesterday my father has received an AIB Card Reader.
After searching out for it I still have no clue if one Card Reader would be use for two diffrent a/c ?

Would this work if I add the reader to my a/c and my father too without a problem.
Like on AIB site they told that many people could use the reader but yee know.
Person would like to be sure.

murphaph

They are interchangeable (not unique to the owner). You'll need an AIB debit card associated with the account in question that you know the PIN to for it to work however.

EDIT: You know they are free and you can request one through your online banking? You don't have to share one if it's inconvenient.

damian01211

Both of us own Debit Card. Only need to add it to the account and should work. Thanks.

Walter lemon

Would it not have made sense for aib to add a code tab on your online banking?
Rather than paying for these devices which essentially people have to have with them they could have added a tab with unique codes for that customer? Just a thought

Scortho

Walter lemon wrote: »

Would it not have made sense for aib to add a code tab on your online banking?
Rather than paying for these devices which essentially people have to have with them they could have added a tab with unique codes for that customer? Just a thought

That would have been a logical choice alright. Cheap, cost effective and secure. To increase security you could ask for 2 of the PAC numbers.

These yokes are just inconvenient.

Walter lemon

It really seems like they have taken a step back. By virtue of the fact that you have to log into the online banking then it should be no issue to add that tab. Allocate codes to each customer and hey presto, it must have cost a fortune to firstly buy or develop the card readers, postal costs etc

28064212

Walter lemon wrote: »

Would it not have made sense for aib to add a code tab on your online banking?
Rather than paying for these devices which essentially people have to have with them they could have added a tab with unique codes for that customer? Just a thought

That would completely defeat the purpose of them. The point of code cards and readers are that so if someone does gain access to your internet banking, they can't do anything useful with it e.g. transfer all your funds to their account.

Walter lemon

28064212 wrote: »

That would completely defeat the purpose of them. The point of code cards and readers are that so if someone does gain access to your internet banking, they can't do anything useful with it e.g. transfer all your funds to their account.

Except take your bank account details from the manage accounts section and withdraw or transfer your money by going to the bank
A code cardcis for the customer to transfer money from their account to another it doesnt erradicate fraud. They could have easily set up an alternative password entry to get your code. The card reader is a bit antiquated

28064212

Walter lemon wrote: »

Except take your bank account details from the manage accounts section and withdraw or transfer your money by going to the bank

What? An account number and sort code is not enough to withdraw or transfer money

Walter lemon wrote: »

A code cardcis for the customer to transfer money from their account to another it doesnt erradicate fraud.

A code card/reader is an extra level of security, that's all. If you could access your codes from within your internet banking, they would have no purpose whatsoever, and could just be done away with completely

jester77

Or they could just have made it really simple like my bank here does. You register your mobile number, they verify it and then the codes are sent via SMS. This card reader is a pain in the hole, if you are away somewhere and don't have it on you then it makes transferring money very awkward.

Walter lemon

It absolutely is all you need, along with your name. I only recently withdrew money from my own account on this basis no id requested, no security questions i handed in a partly filled in withdrawal form with the account details, and this wasn't the first time

If you read my post i also said they could give you an alternative pin to access your codes on line so if somebody got into your online banking they would still need another code to get the codes, and lets be fair if they had that info they probably have all your other details.

I would be interested to know how much money was spent on the readers and compare that with what it would have cost to have done my method.

28064212

Walter lemon wrote: »

It absolutely is all you need, along with your name. I only recently withdrew money from my own account on this basis no id requested, no security questions i handed in a partly filled in withdrawal form with the account details, and this wasn't the first time

By any chance, was it in a bank you regularly use, and where they know you personally? The bank is required to ensure anybody withdrawing is authorised to do so. If they can do that by sight, that's fine.

I have Paypal's Irish account number and sort code. Do you think I could walk into their bank and withdraw whatever I wanted? An account number and sort code are not private information.

Walter lemon wrote: »

If you read my post i also said they could give you an alternative pin to access your codes on line so if somebody got into your online banking they would still need another code to get the codes, and lets be fair if they had that info they probably have all your other details.

You're completely ignoring how scams actually work. People regularly click on links from dodgy emails, and input their PAC and PIN. Adding an extra PIN would mean nothing, the scammer would just add another page to grab that. The verification has to be a completely separate system from the internet banking, otherwise there is absolutely no point to it

Walter lemon wrote: »

I would be interested to know how much money was spent on the readers and compare that with what it would have cost to have done my method.

Your method would have no security, so it would be a total waste of money

Walter lemon

To answer your first question, no
Secondly paypal don't have a bank, you are taking about two different types of accounts pay pal is lodgement only bank account and only an authorised signatory could withdraw money from that account, so you really are incorrect

Thirdly, we are not talking about clicking dodgy emails and that has no relevance here. Would you mind backing up your statement that verification has to entirely separate. Wouldn't that mean that realex payment systems are unsecure?

28064212

Walter lemon wrote: »

To answer your first question, no

And you didn't use a atm/debit card?

Walter lemon wrote: »

Secondly paypal don't have a bank, you are taking about two different types of accounts pay pal is lodgement only bank account and only an authorised signatory could withdraw money from that account, so you really are incorrect

Missed the point. Fine, I've collected lots of personal current account details from various people I've transferred money over the years. Can I walk in to their banks and withdraw all their money?

Walter lemon wrote: »

Thirdly, we are not talking about clicking dodgy emails and that has no relevance here.

What function exactly do you think card readers are fulfilling? The whole point of card readers are to prevent these types of scam

Walter lemon wrote: »

Would you mind backing up your statement that verification has to entirely separate

I've already outlined the exact situation where a card reader would protect you, and an extra PIN wouldn't

Walter lemon

I dont think you are reading the auld posts,

If filled in a withdrawl form
If. You have a persons account number, sort code, name you can withdraw the money, most bank tellers and i am not saying all will process on that basis.

Card readers have been issued for people to tranfer money from their account to another. You can also do this in the bank if you have both sets of account details. If some one has access to your online banking they can access you account details and sort codes along with the amounts in you account go to a bank and arrange withdrawl



At this stage everybody knows that the bank are not sendingnemails and not to click those emails.

In your previous post you stated my method was not secure, it is actually secure. It would be a password protected section to gain a code to tranfer money. Younwould need your 8 digit code, 5 digit pac code and an alternative password to get your transfer code. Now you have to carry a calculator with youbat all times, sure thats progress.

You havent provided any documentation or back up to your statements.

You seem to have some form with this discussion
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056746634&page=2

28064212

Walter lemon wrote: »

I dont think you are reading the auld posts,

If filled in a withdrawl form
If. You have a persons account number, sort code, name you can withdraw the money, most bank tellers and i am not saying all will process on that basis.

Just so we're clear: I have about 15 people's account details built up over the past few years. Friends, family, colleagues, and acquaintances. I know all their account numbers, sort codes, and names. And you think I can just walk into their banks and withdraw all their money?

Walter lemon wrote: »

Card readers have been issued for people to tranfer money from their account to another.

No they haven't. There is no requirement for card readers to exist in order for AIB to implement transfers online. The only reason card readers exist to add more security

Walter lemon wrote: »

At this stage everybody knows that the bank are not sendingnemails and not to click those emails.

:rolleyes: No they don't, there are hundreds of people clicking those links every day. Why do you think they're still sending them? Not to mention that there are a whole other set of attacks where you would have no idea that you were being redirected to a site that wasn't aib.

Walter lemon wrote: »

In your previous post you stated my method was not secure, it is actually secure. It would be a password protected section to gain a code to tranfer money. Younwould need your 8 digit code, 5 digit pac code and an alternative password to get your transfer code.

That is not more secure, that's the exact same level of security. If you're on a malicious site, they can grab your alternative password and transfer code in the same way that they got your registration number and PAC in the first place.

Walter lemon wrote: »

You havent provided any documentation or back up to your statements.

Unlike your claim that all you need is an account number and sort code? How about AIBs' own description, where they clearly state card readers are for security: http://www.aib.ie/servlet/Satellite?c=SC_Content&cid=1291806113056&pagename=SecurityCentre/sc_main&section=S003

Walter lemon wrote: »

You seem to have some form with this discussion
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056746634&page=2

.....And?

Walter lemon

Mate the code card and reader are for transfers from one account to a completely different account, otherwise you can set up a dd or standing order in the bank. You can transfer between your own accounts without the reader.

If you have all those details and you are of the same sex you can withdraw money, you dont need a debit card to do this therefore no pin is required. Rarely is any identification required as long as they dont know you or the other individual.

Please read what aib outline what the reader is for, read the first three.

You admit in your previous post it is an expense and an issue for portability.

Are Aib the only bank with these readers, i don't have one from Boi, why cant they as mentioned generate a phone text operation. IMO this is costly to the bank and in turn us and not very forward thinking.

When you say a malicious site, pardon my ignorance but isn't online aib banking secure and the only time that you enter your internet banking details such as 8 digit code and pac.

wonski

Walter lemon wrote: »

I dont think you are reading the auld posts,

If filled in a withdrawl form
If. You have a persons account number, sort code, name you can withdraw the money, most bank tellers and i am not saying all will process on that basis.

Card readers have been issued for people to tranfer money from their account to another. You can also do this in the bank if you have both sets of account details. If some one has access to your online banking they can access you account details and sort codes along with the amounts in you account go to a bank and arrange withdrawl



At this stage everybody knows that the bank are not sendingnemails and not to click those emails.

In your previous post you stated my method was not secure, it is actually secure. It would be a password protected section to gain a code to tranfer money. Younwould need your 8 digit code, 5 digit pac code and an alternative password to get your transfer code. Now you have to carry a calculator with youbat all times, sure thats progress.

You havent provided any documentation or back up to your statements.

You seem to have some form with this discussion
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056746634&page=2

You really think account number and sortcode is all you need?
No, it isn't.

Card readers are needed only for transfer between your and someone else's account, so the money cannot be moved (fraud prevention) unless you have your card - this is an extra security. No card - no transfer.

Walter lemon

Name, account number, sort code, i did it only last week myself and previously in various banks around town, was never asked for id, bank address or anything.

Granted it was from my own account but regardless I still took money out.

As you will see from previous posts and the link provided, it is dated in regards how banks in europe are operating via phone txt codes

28064212

Walter lemon wrote: »

Mate the code card and reader are for transfers from one account to a completely different account

*Bangs head off wall* That's because those transactions need extra security, they are a huge risk without it. If they didn't need extra security, there would be no need for card readers. The only purpose of card readers are security

Walter lemon wrote: »

If you have all those details and you are of the same sex you can withdraw money, you dont need a debit card to do this therefore no pin is required. Rarely is any identification required as long as they dont know you or the other individual.

That's utter nonsense. You're claiming that any time I want someone to transfer money to me (for which they need my account number and sort code), I'm giving them free reign to withdraw whatever they like from my account.

Walter lemon wrote: »

You admit in your previous post it is an expense and an issue for portability.

Yes, and what you get back is extra security

Walter lemon wrote: »

Are Aib the only bank with these readers, i don't have one from Boi

Up until recently BOI used letters for what AIB used code cards for. Not exactly cheap and portable

Walter lemon wrote: »

why cant they as mentioned generate a phone text operation. IMO this is costly to the bank and in turn us and not very forward thinking.

You mention a phone operation, yet in the very next sentence mention cost. How much do you think the phone service would cost to be implemented?

Walter lemon wrote: »

When you say a malicious site, pardon my ignorance but isn't online aib banking secure and the only time that you enter your internet banking details such as 8 digit code and pac.

That makes the huge assumption that you're actually on the AIB site. If that could be always guaranteed, then you wouldn't need card readers at all

wonski

Walter lemon wrote: »

Granted it was from my own account but regardless I still took money out.

Why don't you try from another, not your own account? Sounds very simple, and if they try to get you to court, tell them you put wrong account number by mistake on withdrawal form.
Also - how do you set up direct debit on your account?
If you ask me - almost every single paragraph of yours made in this thread is misinformation. My opinion only.

Walter lemon

Yep, the code card did the same thing.

Cost wise i don't know, i would like to compare the costs of buying the readers from, china i believe was mentioned, and posting them out to customers with the messaging,

I usually just type AIB internet banking and that is where i go dont really stress about it

But sure maybe you are right, dont bang your head mate you'll get a headache

Walter lemon

wonski wrote: »

Why don't you try from another, not your own account? Sounds very simple, and if they try to get you to court, tell them you put wrong account number by mistake on withdrawal form.

I think you missed the point wonski, i took money from my account with only those details. To take money from someone else's account i would need their account number and sort code and name.




Also - how do you set up direct debit on your account? What relevance has that got?
If you ask me - almost every single paragraph of yours made in this thread is misinformation. My opinion only.

Ha cool thanks for that

28064212

Walter lemon wrote: »

I usually just type AIB internet banking and that is where i go dont really stress about it

So you know nothing about computer security? Never would have guessed. Isn't it lucky you have a code reader protecting your account from being cleared out?

wonski

Walter lemon wrote: »

Ha cool thanks for that

What relevance? Here it is:

Walter lemon wrote: »

Mate the code card and reader are for transfers from one account to a completely different account, otherwise you can set up a dd or standing order in the bank. You can transfer between your own accounts without the reader.

If you have all those details and you are of the same sex you can withdraw money, you dont need a debit card to do this therefore no pin is required. Rarely is any identification required as long as they dont know you or the other individual.

murphaph

Walter lemon wrote: »

It absolutely is all you need, along with your name. I only recently withdrew money from my own account on this basis no id requested, no security questions i handed in a partly filled in withdrawal form with the account details, and this wasn't the first time

If you read my post i also said they could give you an alternative pin to access your codes on line so if somebody got into your online banking they would still need another code to get the codes, and lets be fair if they had that info they probably have all your other details.

I would be interested to know how much money was spent on the readers and compare that with what it would have cost to have done my method.

Your method would not add any appreciable level of security whatsoever!

Walter lemon

Okay fair enough i accept that

Im not trolling I just think there has to be a better way

murphaph

Walter lemon wrote: »

As you will see from previous posts and the link provided, it is dated in regards how banks in europe are operating via phone txt codes

Hmmm, German banks use at least 3 methods including the code card (itan), code generator and SMS. The least secure is the code card as the codes are valid until used. The most secure is the code generator because you also need the card and pin. In the middle is the SMS way, because the phone's simlock may not be on.

Your way would be less secure than all three and in fact offer no additional security.

Gordon

Walter lemon wrote: »

Name, account number, sort code, i did it only last week myself and previously in various banks around town, was never asked for id, bank address or anything.

Granted it was from my own account but regardless I still took money out.

Did you have to sign the slip?

murphaph

Walter lemon wrote: »

Okay fair enough i accept that

Im not trolling I just think there has to be a better way

The SMS way is acceptable to me personally. Ulster bank don't require use of the code generator for all transfers, just when adding a new payee, which sort of makes sense.

Walter lemon

I appreciate that but the sms seems to be with many banks

https://www.santander.co.uk/csgs/Satellite?appID=abbey.internet.Abbeycom&cid=1210607987154&leng=en_GB&pagename=Abbeycom%2FPage%2FWC_ACOM_TemplateA2

https://personalbanking.bankofireland.com/international-payments/how-to-make-payments/#explanation-6