HEC SF: Saracens vs Toulon, Sunday 28th April 3pm; Sky Sports 1

Hagz

Farrell has been outrageously bad, but in saying that, I still think he's the no.2 to go on the Lions tour. I don't think Wilkinson still has what it takes to play international rugby.

EDIT: Actually, I'm kind of leaning towards Flood atm.

thomond2006

Neither?!

Brendan Venter's dejection: sweeeeeet

Grandpa Hassan

Hagz wrote: »

Farrell has been outrageously bad, but in saying that, I still think he's the no.2 to go on the Lions tour. I don't think Wilkinson still has what it takes to play international rugby.

I'm a JW fan, and still just about intuitively agree with you. Just. But this hasn't been a one game wonder....it's been back to back HC knockout games against almost full international teams in all but name, plus a dominant French league season. It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify not taking him....

leftleg

thomond2006 wrote: »

Brendan Venter's dejection: sweeeeeet

three cheers for Johnny Wilkinson lol

.ak

History repeats itself, another all French final in Dublin.

WorldRugby99

well heineken cup proves money can buy you success. Toulon V Clermont final both with huge squads,huge amount of money spent. Incredibly toulon are signing drew mitchell and bryan habana for next year!
Leinster may still have a say,although minus sexton,nacewa the back line is much weaker but you cant look beyond these 2 french sides for next couple of years.I see french dominance ahead purely down to financial power.

Re wilkinson-has to be big case for taking him as the back up to sexton with lions-he has the experience,hes playing well and you know he can cope with the big game situations.

brandon_flowers

Wilkinson proving yet again that he is the only likable English player ever.

RuggieBear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgchHlaSQE

Taco Corp

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I'm a JW fan, and still just about intuitively agree with you. Just. But this hasn't been a one game wonder....it's been back to back HC knockout games against almost full international teams in all but name, plus a dominant French league season. It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify not taking him....

he won't go because the french finals go on til start of June and Toulon look very likely to be involved. So that's the excuse Gatland and co have for bringing Farrell over Wilko.

ScrubsfanChris

Barnes - "Irish and English teams taught a lesson this weekend" HUH

Munster losing narrowly away in France and Leinster winning.......

thomond2006

Neither?!

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Wilkinson proving yet again that he is the only likable English player ever.

Ah ffs this kind of anti-English sentiment is utterly pathetic.

awec

Neither?!

*takes off Toulon hat, puts on Clermont hat*

danthefan

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

he won't go because the french finals go on til start of June and Toulon look very likely to be involved. So that's the excuse Gatland and co have for bringing Farrell over Wilko.

Do you think Gatland particularly wants an excuse to leave Wilko behind? He has no vested interest between Wilko and Farrell.

decisions

Neither?!

Farrell looks a broken man.

Grandpa Hassan

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

he won't go because the french finals go on til start of June and Toulon look very likely to be involved. So that's the excuse Gatland and co have for bringing Farrell over Wilko.

Forgot about that. It's the excuse that gatland needs. Otherwise he'd face some very awkward questions.....

leftleg

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Wilkinson proving yet again that he is the only likable English player ever.

Grow up

shuffol

interviewer is class in that.

its_phil

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Wilkinson proving yet again that he is the only likable English player ever.

Grow up

brandon_flowers

It was a joke ffs, just following on from everybody pissin' on Saracens all throughout the thread.

Chabals Beard

What a depressing game

vienne86

Neither?!

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Wilkinson proving yet again that he is the only likable English player ever.

Ah that's silly comment.

its_phil

thomond2006 wrote: »

Brendan Venter's dejection: sweeeeeet

Three cheers for Sireli Bobo... I mean Jonny Wilkinson

decisions

Neither?!

Great interview from JW, he is a classy bloke. Sounds like he doesn't want to tour.

But all of this anti English stuff is going a bit far.

Taco Corp

danthefan wrote: »

Do you think Gatland particularly wants an excuse to leave Wilko behind? He has no vested interest between Wilko and Farrell.

excuse probably the wrong choice of word. but hasn't he already said that anyone who can't be on the plane to Hong Kong, won't be involved. There's no other good reason to not bring him

.ak

Brothwick taking a leaf from Venter's book there.

Grandpa Hassan

He said pretty clearly there that he doesn't want to go, and take away the opportunity from the young guys. Classy guy

.ak

Wilko spoke very well.

Principal Skinner

Wilkinson really is an absolute gent. Great advert for the game

Swiwi

Chabals Beard wrote: »

What a depressing game

+1. If that's the pinnacle of European rugby, it's not great. I could just rummage around and find tapes of England circa 2003, where a decent pack and JW kicking various forms of 3-pointers was a winning formula. Sigh.

Definitely hoping for a Clermont victory in the final and at least one 5-pointer.

irishbucsfan

RuggieBear wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgchHlaSQE

I have to say I thought that was pretty legendary. Although without the context he looks a tw*t!

19543261

Couldnt like a chap more.

ScrubsfanChris

Greenwood can't hide his man-love for Wilko

decisions

Neither?!

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I have to say I thought that was pretty legendary. Although without the context he looks a tw*t!

What lead to that interview?

Grandpa Hassan

Swiwi wrote: »

+1. If that's the pinnacle of European rugby, it's not great. I could just rummage around and find tapes of England circa 2003, where a decent pack and JW kicking various forms of 3-pointers was a winning formula. Sigh.

Definitely hoping for a Clermont victory in the final and at least one 5-pointer.

Jason Robinson, Will Greenwood etc might disagree with your analysis of the English 2003 team.

But, with regards to this weekend, semi finals are notoriously tight and low risk. Whether rugby, football or anything else. There is enough talent out wide there to make a good final....

decisions

Neither?!

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Greenwood can't hide his man-love for Wilko

Well he did win him a WC medal.

thomond2006

Neither?!

decisions wrote: »

What lead to that interview?

Venter was fined before that game by the ERC for comments about a referee, so both Venter and the Saracens CEO planned that in the next post-match interview Venter would give bull**** responses.

(open to correction)

Grandpa Hassan

decisions wrote: »

Well he did win him a WC medal.

+1. And tbh, it's difficult not to have a little man love for the guy!

Lelantos

thomond2006 wrote: »

Venter was fined before that game by the ERC for comments about a referee, so both Venter and the Saracens CEO planned that in the next post-match interview Venter would give bull**** responses.

(open to correction)

Venter is a bit of a git, but that interview is a comedic classic, love it! 3 cheers for Brendan Venter!

thomond2006

Neither?!

Lelantos wrote: »

Venter is a bit of a git, but that interview is a comedic classic, love it! 3 cheers for Brendan Venter!

Ah it was hilarious alright but I still can't stand Venter.

TheGoldenAges

Mark McCall for Ireland anyone :pac:

irishbucsfan

Lelantos wrote: »

Venter is a bit of a git, but that interview is a comedic classic, love it! 3 cheers for Brendan Venter!

He's a very intelligent man in fairness. I think he's a doctor.

But he is abrasive in the classic Saffer way that can make him very tough to like.

danthefan

That interview was brilliant, he is completely taking the piss.

"Three cheers for Sireli Bobo" had me in stitches.

Judgement Day

Return of the King....leaving a trail of wannabes in his wake..Toby Flood, Owen Farrell and Charlie Hodgson to name but a few.

Cosmo Kramer

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

he won't go because the french finals go on til start of June and Toulon look very likely to be involved. So that's the excuse Gatland and co have for bringing Farrell over Wilko.

Will his selection of Gethin Jenkins not compromise that argument, or does Jenkins have an agreement to leave early since he's leaving the club this summer anyway?

Swiwi

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Jason Robinson, Will Greenwood etc might disagree with your analysis of the English 2003 team.

But, with regards to this weekend, semi finals are notoriously tight and low risk. Whether rugby, football or anything else. There is enough talent out wide there to make a good final....

It's a cliched generalisation, I know. That was a good English team, and Robinson scored a great try in the final. Although, I didn't watch the Amlin match, Leinster scored a heap of points in their semi (albeit Amlin Cup), so it can be done. I'm only speaking from the viewpoint of a neutral spectator, who didn't find this match a particularly riveting semi-final.

thomond2006

Neither?!

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Will his selection of Gethin Jenkins not compromise that argument, or does Jenkins have an agreement to leave early since he's leaving the club this summer anyway?

Toulon said months ago they would not release any players early, they are going to have a couple of tough weeks in store between the HEC final and T14. After Sheridan and Jenkins, Toulon are down to the espoirs in terms of looseheads so they'll need both their senior looseheads for all their games.

On a side note: Much like Wilkinson when he came to Toulon, Sheridan has been fit all season after having multiple seasons ruined by injury.

its_phil

Swiwi wrote: »

It's a cliched generalisation, I know. That was a good English team, and Robinson scored a great try in the final. Although, I didn't watch the Amlin match, Leinster scored a heap of points in their semi (albeit Amlin Cup), so it can be done. I'm only speaking from the viewpoint of a neutral spectator, who didn't find this match a particularly riveting semi-final.

I think its more Saracens forcing those kind of games tbh. Look at the Ulster game, you wouldn't accuse Ulster of having a bad style of rugby all season but Saracens like to manipulate games into arm wrestles at the expense of spectacles. The difference between Ulster and Toulon was Toulon had a better pack to deal with that game and Wilkinson took all points on offer. Toulon played some really good rugby against Leicester in the quarters so I wouldn't write them off as a negative team, but it will be interesting to see what happens in the final.

iroced

Impressively solid performance from RCT this afternoon. They shut down Saracens game and they looked in control for the whole game. Even while down to 14 men it seemed they impressed Saracens players so much that the latter were trying extraordinary difficult play to pass them (e.g. these 2 forward long passes that annihilated 2 clear try opportunities or this player coming back inside while there was space and numbers out wide). If they had just kept playing simple they would have gone in front and put some doubts in Toulon heads. Instead the exact opposite happened and God Jonny had a blinder ! The classiest (on and off the pitch) rugby player ever ?

Maybe the only Toulon fail was their inefficiency to score a try. They had 3-4 great opportunities and couldn't convert any of them. It was the exact same scenario against Leicester in the 1/4 final. If they want to win a title this season they'll have to sort that out or it will bite them in the ass.

That being said, Clermont will have to watch this game over and over again. Toulon, like Munster, will offer them a solid powerful defense to frustrate them and will try to close the game as much as they can and exploit any counter attacks. The 2 top 14 games won't have a big influence since there was no serious challenge involved and therefore the level of commitment can't be compared with a HCup final. You'd think Clermont might have a little advanatge but the first game was almost a draw (Clermont won from a last second debatable penalty kick) and the second was a draw (with a Clermont B team but played on a "neutral" ground). From their experience and their enjoyable way of playing Clermont are favourite and that will suit perfectly Boudjelal's team.

Good overall results for French rugby though after a catastrophic Tournament. It's funny how last year a lot of comments (even in France !) were saying that French club rugby level was maybe more Amlin than HCup. I remember answering here a question about it and my point was that if Toulouse had won their 1/4f (they lost in Edinburgh by 5 points) there would have been 6 French teams out of the 8th european semi-finalists (with 2 in the HCup) and the comments would have been, like they are this year, all about the good health of French club rugby :pac:. Ah well... short term analyses rule this world :rolleyes:.

ongarite

Toulon haven't scored a try in the HC since Round 5. Can't see them winning the HC final without changing that.

thomond2006

Neither?!

Match stats: http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/167683.html