Towards a United Ireland

maccored

a modern UK is a country to be proud of? nevermind it isnt a country, but somewhere to be proud of? Have you talked to anyone living in the UK recently? They dont seem to be too proud of their government.

To answer your question, if the RoI stagnated, then it would be the perfect time to try a UI.

Can'tseeme

We don't make any real difference to the UK politically or economically. The MP's from the north that go to Westminster have the lowest attendance figures in the Commons due to the fact the debates, votes, etc aren't relevant to us. Westminster is dominated by the two main parties that aren't voted for in the north.

One of the main points of ending partition is that it gives the citizens self determination and better more accountable democracy instead of being "looked after" by London.

gallag

Can'tseeme wrote: »

We don't make any real difference to the UK politically or economically. The MP's from the north that go to Westminster have the lowest attendance figures in the Commons due to the fact the debates, votes, etc aren't relevant to us. Westminster is dominated by the two main parties that aren't voted for in the north.

One of the main points of ending partition is that it gives the citizens self determination and better more accountable democracy instead of being "looked after" by London.

Aw bless, you still think the Irish government are for the people. I'd rather London that that shower of crooks in Dublin lol, they are all equally dodgy but at least the British government have the good grace to stand down when caught.

Can'tseeme

gallag wrote: »

Aw bless, you still think the Irish government are for the people. I'd rather London that that shower of crooks in Dublin lol, they are all equally dodgy but at least the British government have the good grace to stand down when caught.

I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of the British or Irish government. I'm talking about our relationship with the British Government or the lack of it.

Richard

Can'tseeme wrote: »

I'm not talking about the rights and wrongs of the British or Irish government. I'm talking about our relationship with the British Government or the lack of it.

Yeah, but don't forget about Stormont. That is representative of the NI population.

Can'tseeme

Richard wrote: »

Yeah, but don't forget about Stormont. That is representative of the NI population.

I'm supportive of Stormont in the short term. Really it is a way to administrate the block grant from the powers that be in Westminster. But it put an end to Unionist dominance in the North and is accountable to voters on local issues.

But really for an island this size and small population. We shouldn't need two governments, planning separately and competing against each other with the odd cross border initiative. We should be able to organise ourselves properly on an all island basis.

Richard

Can'tseeme wrote: »

I'm supportive of Stormont in the short term. Really it is a way to administrate the block grant from the powers that be in Westminster. But it put an end to Unionist dominance in the North and is accountable to voters on local issues.

But really for an island this size and small population. We shouldn't need two governments, planning separately and competing against each other with the odd cross border initiative. We should be able to organise ourselves properly on an all island basis.

Yes, and I'm sure it could happen and it may well work. But size isn't all-important; the extension of that logic is that all of Ireland should be part of the UK. Obviously that wouldn't be a popular outcome at all.

Can'tseeme

Richard wrote: »

Yes, and I'm sure it could happen and it may well work. But size isn't all-important; the extension of that logic is that all of Ireland should be part of the UK. Obviously that wouldn't be a popular outcome at all.

The will to fall back under Westminster rule isn't there. But we should have a good working partnership with Britain.

timthumbni

Can'tseeme wrote: »

The will to fall back under Westminster rule isn't there. But we should have a good working partnership with Britain.

And you really think that the will is there for an all ireland rule??? It isn't and I'm not sure if it ever will be. I could in the long term foresee some form of joint authority but it would only be a case of dublin chipping in the readies and not much else. And let's face it dublin isn't exactly flush at the minute. Probably not in my lifetime either.

Can'tseeme

timthumbni wrote: »

And you really think that the will is there for an all ireland rule??? It isn't and I'm not sure if it ever will be. I could in the long term foresee some form of joint authority but it would only be a case of dublin chipping in the readies and not much else. And let's face it dublin isn't exactly flush at the minute. Probably not in my lifetime either.

I think it is hard to predict. People can only decide when the proposals are put forward to them to consider whether they make sense or not. Politics is always in flux.

on the river

Can'tseeme wrote: »

I think it is hard to predict. People can only decide when the proposals are put forward to them to consider whether they make sense or not. Politics is always in flux.

Ireland shall be free. She will be united in politcs and culture and let the no gooders continue to wine about small issues. look towards the future where ireland is a nation where all peoples get along. flags dont matter . what matters is what we belive and what is passed through are blood irishness so unique we can never lose ( rant over)

DEFTLEFTHAND

The main problem surely is that the south have grown quite detatched from the North. There's this myth among the Northern Nationalist movement that the 26 counties actually want them. Put it to a referendum North and South and I don't see it happening.

Where I live in Munster it's not an issue at all, people watch Prem football and X Factor and are comfortable. There's hardly any interest in NI and it's politics, and when you do get something out of them it's usually anti North. for eg "Fcukin Nordies", and why can't we cut them away from the island?

MFdaveIreland

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The main problem surely is that the south have grown quite detatched from the North. There's tng the Northern Nationalist movement that the 26 counties actually want them. Put it to a referendum North and South and I don't see it happening.

Where I live in Munster it's not an issue at all, people watch Prem football and X Factor and are comfortable. There's hardly any interest in NI and it's politics, and when you do get something out of them it's usually anti North. for eg "Fcukin Nordies", and why can't we cut them away from the island?

Fair point there. Could you appreciate it from the nationalist point of view though, who against their will were placed into another state . Sports sidelined , culture and arts ignored as unimportant, the Irish language given the same status as Ulster Scots, a dialect at best,
I do feel north and south growing apart in some ways but some things can't be erased by some economic move by another country, which is effectively the long and the short of it

getzls

on the river wrote: »

Ireland shall be free. She will be united in politcs and culture and let the no gooders continue to wine about small issues. look towards the future where ireland is a nation where all peoples get along. flags dont matter . what matters is what we belive and what is passed through are blood irishness so unique we can never lose ( rant over)

Ireland is free. :cool:

Even if an agreed U.I. happened soon too much has happened in the past.
Yes people will live in peace but there will always be about one million people who will always see themselves as British and the Union flag as their flag.

The Tricolour will never be accepted as the flag of Unionists/British people.

MFdaveIreland

getzls wrote: »

Ireland is free. :cool:

Even if an agreed U.I. happened soon too much has happened in the past.
Yes people will live in peace but there will always be about one million people who will always see themselves as British and the Union flag as their flag.

The Tricolour will never be accepted as the flag of Unionists/British people.

Tis a conundrum alright, my only issue being that these people who see themselves as British and union flag etc , I don't think they realise that they came from Scotland and England originally
, I've heard people ignorant enough to say to Irish nationalists to go back to your own country, words fail me , respect needs to be both ways , blatant ignorance achieves nothing

marienbad

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

Tis a conundrum alright, my only issue being that these people who see themselves as British and union flag etc , I don't think they realise that they came from Scotland and England originally
, I've heard people ignorant enough to say to Irish nationalists to go back to your own country, words fail me , respect needs to be both ways , blatant ignorance achieves nothing

Irony much !

MFdaveIreland

marienbad wrote: »

Irony much !

Haha, I'm aware of it, I realise how my post came off there, so apologies to anybody offended.
Just a small bit of knowledge from how things were etc wudnt hurt, I respect peoples ideals and cultures ,but ignorance of the existing Irish population in north doesnt allow for much respect to be exchanged between either side if u see where I'm coming from

tdv123

getzls wrote: »

Ireland is free. :cool:

Even if an agreed U.I. happened soon too much has happened in the past.
Yes people will live in peace but there will always be about one million people who will always see themselves as British and the Union flag as their flag.

The Tricolour will never be accepted as the flag of Unionists/British people.

And likewise the Union Jack will never accepted by the Irish/Nationalist people.

on the river

getzls wrote: »

Ireland is free. :cool:

Even if an agreed U.I. happened soon too much has happened in the past.
Yes people will live in peace but there will always be about one million people who will always see themselves as British and the Union flag as their flag.

The Tricolour will never be accepted as the flag of Unionists/British people.

Ireland cannot be defined by just one flag. We have a diverse history that always will be called upon when matters of N ireland arises. We remember the past yet we must move forward together and work out are differences.
we will get there just have faith

ChicagoJoe

getzls wrote: »

Ireland is free. :cool:

Even if an agreed U.I. happened soon too much has happened in the past.
Yes people will live in peace but there will always be about one million people who will always see themselves as British and the Union flag as their flag.

The Tricolour will never be accepted as the flag of Unionists/British people.

But keeping Ireland partitioned against the wishes of nealy 5 million nationalists is ok is it? But there's never been a million unionists in Ireland, 800,000 at most if even that. Greater Dublin has a bigger population, does that mean Dublinners will have to be given there own little state :rolleyes:

dulpit

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

But keeping Ireland partitioned against the wishes of nealy 5 million nationalists is ok is it? But there's never been a million unionists in Ireland, 800,000 at most if even that. Greater Dublin has a bigger population, does that mean Dublinners will have to be given there own little state :rolleyes:

To be fair, the opinions of the 1.8 million people living in Northern Ireland are all that should matter, the people of the republic should only be consulted if the North decide they want to end partition. Until they do, it's not really out business down here, is it?

sparky42

dulpit wrote: »

To be fair, the opinions of the 1.8 million people living in Northern Ireland are all that should matter, the people of the republic should only be consulted if the North decide they want to end partition. Until they do, it's not really out business down here, is it?

And since even within the Catholic community there's divisions on the question of a UI, the reality is that it's going to be sometime before the question ever comes up.

VinLieger

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

But keeping Ireland partitioned against the wishes of nealy 5 million nationalists is ok is it? But there's never been a million unionists in Ireland, 800,000 at most if even that. Greater Dublin has a bigger population, does that mean Dublinners will have to be given there own little state :rolleyes:

5 million nationalists? Was there a national poll recently that returned a 100% in favour of reunification figure I wasnt aware of?

If a poll was done that laid out all the facts cost risk etc of reunification I would be willing to bet considering the current state of the country it would return a strong NO

MFdaveIreland

dulpit wrote: »

To be fair, the opinions of the 1.8 million people living in Northern Ireland are all that should matter, the people of the republic should only be consulted if the North decide they want to end partition. Until they do, it's not really out business down here, is it?

The problem being, the south should in my opinion has a say, because events in history like the ulster plantation were perfectly executed to give a majority of a certain creed in a given area, eg, Gerrymandering of NI, whilst also keeping Belfast's boat building industry while they did it. Wiki " gerrymandering is a practice that attempts to establish a political advantage for a particular party or group by manipulating district boundaries to create partisan advantaged districts."

don't know if it would happen today, eg , hundereds of thousands of polish or whatever took up in Dublin, and partitioned themselves off , with the rest of roi having no say in the matter.

I would be happy with peace to be honest, but its hard to ignore the unfairness that occurred all those years ago

marienbad

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

The problem being, the south should in my opinion has a say, because events in history like the ulster plantation were perfectly executed to give a majority of a certain creed in a given area, eg, Gerrymandering of NI, whilst also keeping Belfast's boat building industry while they did it. Wiki " gerrymandering is a practice that attempts to establish a political advantage for a particular party or group by manipulating district boundaries to create partisan advantaged districts."

don't know if it would happen today, eg , hundereds of thousands of polish or whatever took up in Dublin, and partitioned themselves off , with the rest of roi having no say in the matter.

I would be happy with peace to be honest, but its hard to ignore the unfairness that occurred all those years ago

History has always been unfair - here there everywhere, it is how we correct and adjust to it in the present that matters

MFdaveIreland

marienbad wrote: »

History has always been unfair - here there everywhere, it is how we correct and adjust to it in the present that matters

Here here, couldnt agree more

Godge

MFdaveIreland wrote: »

I would be happy with peace to be honest, but its hard to ignore the unfairness that occurred all those years ago

Just discovered I am the last remaining descendant of the Mesolithic Irish who first inhabited this country. So maybe the rest of you would just hand over everything to me:rolleyes:.

I mean, how silly is this? The Ulster plantations have to be regarded as unfair and impacting on present day decisions by real life people?

getzls

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

But keeping Ireland partitioned against the wishes of nealy 5 million nationalists is ok is it? But there's never been a million unionists in Ireland, 800,000 at most if even that. Greater Dublin has a bigger population, does that mean Dublinners will have to be given there own little state :rolleyes:

As far as Unionists go you may as well include the wishes of 70 million Germans etc etc. They don't care. And why should they?

As far as there has never been a million Unionists?

Yes there is, don't confuse a persons religion with their politics.;)

getzls

tdv123 wrote: »

And likewise the Union Jack will never accepted by the Irish/Nationalist people.

And that is true and to some extent even true with some Catholic Unionists.

NIMAN

tdv123 wrote: »

And likewise the Union Jack will never accepted by the Irish/Nationalist people.

Anyone???:D