Towards a United Ireland

T runner

Bertie Woot wrote: »

Just finished reading "Towards A United Ireland: An Uncompleted Journey" by Billy Leonard, a Protestant Irish Republican, who unlike the vast majority of contemporary Irish Republicans, comes from a British Unionist background in Northern Ireland, and was once a member of both the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the Orange Order.

His conversion from Unionism to Irish Republicanism, becoming an SDLP member and then a Sinn Fein MLA in the Stormont assembly, is a road less travelled by Northern Unionists, and in his book he analyses the past, present and outlines his vision for for the future by forwarding the concept of "Vision Ireland", a hypothetical body composed of people of all party affiliation and none, and representing all shades of opinion on the political spectrum with one common goal; that of Irish reunification.

I must confess that I found it extremely unusual for someone of such background to join Sinn Fein and allow himself to rub shoulders with former PIRA combatants who had murdered many of his RUC comrades, but whilst in the SDLP it became obvious to Mr Leonard that the SDLP had effectively abandoned the aspiration of Irish reunification, and his dedication to that goal was strong enough to compel him to join Sinn Fein, the political representatives of the Provisional IRA.

It is my view however that Sinn Fein's Adams and McGuinness paramilitary past, with Adams still in denial about his and McGuinness having once stated that he was "proud to have been a member of the Provisional IRA", mean that they are not the right people to promote the concept of Irish reunification among the Ulster Unionist community, as despite 15 years after the signing of the Good Friday Agreement and (relative) peace in NI, most Unionists collective memory of the PIRA's campaign is still strong, and many still look upon Adams and McGuinness as the Irish Republican bogey-men.

The reality is, Billy Leonard's journey form Unionism to Irish Republicanism shall not be followed by most Ulster Unionists, and the goal of peaceful and democratic Irish reunification as provided for in the Good Friday Agreement shall require considerable time, patience, and a hell of a lot of creative thinking and tactical strategy on the part of Irish Republicans.

Sinn Fein's "green paper on Irish unity, where they argue that there is a "responsibility on the Irish government to bring forward a strategy to achieve national self determination, Irish re-unification, political independence, sovereignty and national reconciliation", and call upon the Irish Government to "publish a "Green Paper" and to begin the practical planning for Irish unity", is a practical step forward. Their desire to act as and encourage others to become "persuaders" to Unionists and convince them that a united Ireland is not only their destiny but in their own self interest is also useful. But how do you, the citizen of the Republic of Ireland, feel about Irish reunification, and what do you feel is the best and most practical way of achieving Irish unity in your lifetime?

Like Billy Leonard, I too come from the Unionist-Protestant community in Northern Ireland, lived through "the troubles", and after 15 years of (relative) peace in NI have come to view Irish reunification desirable if there were safeguards, assurances and guarantees embedded with a reunification agreement which would protect the Unionist people from retaliatory persecution in a 32 county Irish Republic. However, I know that 99.7% (a rough estimate) of Northern Unionists do not share my aspiration, and are just as opposed to a united Ireland today as they were forty years ago.

How would you convince the Unionists in Northern Ireland that finally putting an end to partition is safe and in their best interests? Perhaps like many in the ROI, you too have become jaded, have given up hope, or are apathetic towards the goal of Irish reunification?

Your thoughts on Irish unity, ladies and not so lady-like persons, please.

Hi BW. I hope to reply in more detail. One of the reasons to a lack of trust on both sides (southerners and northern Unionists) is that they simply don't know eachother.

People in the Republic would view the idea of retaliation against Northern Unionists as extremely far fetched. Yet this seems to be a huge fear for Northern Protestants.

If you could take a minute just to list what you'd regard as the main reasons that Unionists want to remain in the UK (and their fears about joining a UI), Ill respond in more detail.

For both the communities mentioned to know each other better would greatly soften sentiment towards a UI. It seems many Protestants view Southerners as a large extension of Northern Nationalists. Southerners haven't been involved in the zero sum game peculiar to NE Ireland and since 1921 NI.

We are part of a settled stable democracy. Most people would view the most peaceful solution as best and they might have this in common with many Northern moderate Unionists (although moderate Unionists might find it harder to say this out loud)

Rgds

T runner

getzls wrote: »

Ireland is free. :cool:

Even if an agreed U.I. happened soon too much has happened in the past.
Yes people will live in peace but there will always be about one million people who will always see themselves as British and the Union flag as their flag.

The Tricolour will never be accepted as the flag of Unionists/British people.

I think 2/3 of the population in NI now do not see themselves as primarily British and have an identity associated with this Island, either Irish or N Irish.

The flag issue, which has recently been taken over by the UVF is not an issue for the vast majority of Unionists. We may need a new flag. Dealing with the UVF will be an issue.

junder

T runner wrote: »

I think 2/3 of the population in NI now do not see themselves as primarily British and have an identity associated with this Island, either Irish or N Irish.

The flag issue, which has recently been taken over by the UVF is not an issue for the vast majority of Unionists. We may need a new flag. Dealing with the UVF will be an issue.

Got to love republicans, always moving the goal posts. Since the creation of northern Irish state the term northern Ireland was anathema to republicans, for decades we where told that there was no such thing as a northern irish identity, suddenly some northern irish catholics start identifying with the the northern irish identity and suddenly republicans are ok with the term. Does that mean they will be dropping the terms 'occupied six county's' ' da north ' etc etc. Personally I am glad to see the rise of a northern irish identity and see it as another one of the family of British identitys

FYI the UVF are not behind the flag protests,.the orange order or the recent bad weather

T runner

junder wrote: »

Got to love republicans, always moving the goal posts. Since the creation of northern Irish state the term northern Ireland was anathema to republicans, for decades we where told that there was no such thing as a northern irish identity, suddenly some northern irish catholics start identifying with the the northern irish identity and suddenly republicans are ok with the term. Does that mean they will be dropping the terms 'occupied six county's' ' da north ' etc etc. Personally I am glad to see the rise of a northern irish identity and see it as another one of the family of British identitys

FYI the UVF are not behind the flag protests,.the orange order or the recent bad weather

I was correcting the previous poster who claimed that 1 million residents in NI claimed to be British. They don't. A recent survey showed this not to be the case, with a majority holding an identity on this Island and not the neighbouring (British) one. A minority identified as being British.

The fact that many Protestants and Catholics view it as a neutral and therefore not a strictly British or Irish identity, is behind its rise its safe to say.
You may view it as a British identity, but you' re in a shrinking minority in the North now.

(BTW Do you mean Republicans or republicans? Do you know the difference?)


The UVF are very much in charge of the Flag protest now. They took over the leadership about 2 months ago. Their resurgence was marked by a recent victory in the multi party talks. The talks fell down on groups not being allowed to play restricted songs on marches or show banners of restricted organisations. This would prohibit many Republican marches and obviously prohibit sectarian banners being displayed and sectarian songs being played by the loyalist bands who march behind the orange bands. The UVF joined with the orange order to put pressure on the DUP. And succeeded.
The DUP couldn't risk losing votes. So the entire talks were dropped....to appease the UVF. Don't you even know what's going on in your own community?

T runner

Godge wrote: »

Just discovered I am the last remaining descendant of the Mesolithic Irish who first inhabited this country. So maybe the rest of you would just hand over everything to me:rolleyes:.

I mean, how silly is this? The Ulster plantations have to be regarded as unfair and impacting on present day decisions by real life people?

The Ulster Plantations were planned with the intention of securing a privileged local loyal population to Britain, of a type of Protestant who would be hostile to the local "Irish" population. This has been documented as has the British policy of fostering hostility between these ethnic groups by various means. The planned sectarianism still exists and that is the wrong that must be righted. There have been 5-6 serious outbreaks of "troubles" in NE Ireland since the plantation, and ignoring history wont stop it from repeating itself.

97% of Protestants are against a United Ireland. Why is the Protestant community still so entrenched in anti-Irishness? Yes, the sectarianism still remains and it will remain. Because losing it means the reason for the existence of NI starts to fade.

including for example forged documents alleging that all

junder

T runner wrote: »

I was correcting the previous poster who claimed that 1 million residents in NI claimed to be British. They don't. A recent survey showed this not to be the case, with a majority holding an identity on this Island and not the neighbouring (British) one. A minority identified as being British.

The fact that many Protestants and Catholics view it as a neutral and therefore not a strictly British or Irish identity, is behind its rise its safe to say.
You may view it as a British identity, but you' re in a shrinking minority in the North now.

(BTW Do you mean Republicans or republicans? Do you know the difference?)


The UVF are very much in charge of the Flag protest now. They took over the leadership about 2 months ago. Their resurgence was marked by a recent victory in the multi party talks. The talks fell down on groups not being allowed to play restricted songs on marches or show banners of restricted organisations. This would prohibit many Republican marches and obviously prohibit sectarian banners being displayed and sectarian songs being played by the loyalist bands who march behind the orange bands. The UVF joined with the orange order to put pressure on the DUP. And succeeded.
The DUP couldn't risk losing votes. So the entire talks were dropped....to appease the UVF. Don't you even know what's going on in your own community?

The pressure is coming from the Dup's own electorate. Those commonal garden working class loyalists who feel that the dup has let them down this anger has been.simmering long.before the.flag protests, it's the very reason peter lost his seat. However it easier for republicans to use the UVF bogey man then deal with the real fact of large sections of the Unionist community have become disillusioned with the peace process

junder

Godge wrote: »

Just discovered I am the last remaining descendant of the Mesolithic Irish who first inhabited this country. So maybe the rest of you would just hand over everything to me:rolleyes:.

I mean, how silly is this? The Ulster plantations have to be regarded as unfair and impacting on present day decisions by real life people?

Ah but are you a protestant mesolithic or a Catholic mesolithic

T runner

junder wrote: »

The pressure is coming from the Dup's own electorate. Those commonal garden working class loyalists who feel that the dup has let them down this anger has been.simmering long.before the.flag protests, it's the very reason peter lost his seat. However it easier for republicans to use the UVF bogey man then deal with the real fact of large sections of the Unionist community have become disillusioned with the peace process

UVF angry with the DUP? Only a matter of time before they murder a Catholic, any Catholic so.

Are you saying that Republicans (large R) are deliberately inventing the UVF story? I cant speak for them . My source was a Sunday Times article post Haas collapse.

This isn't large sections of the community. This is a small section of sectarian crackpots in marginal seats in East Belfast. DUP voters? Well of-course! That's why the DUP acted to defend Orange/UVF interests. The legitimacy of the Northern state was not even questioned under Haas. The DUP could have had State Sectarianism written out of history of the northern state. Could have effectively blamed Republicans for EVERYTHING in time. It wouldn't have been the truth but they could have done it. But again they bowed, and the most hateful sectarians in NI again dictate state policy.

BTW Youre not still claiming to have a degree in politics from QUB are you? Seriously? You don't even know what's going on in the flag protest for Gods sake!

T runner

junder wrote: »

Ah but are you a protestant mesolithic or a Catholic mesolithic

For Protestants to claim Mesolithic Irish ancestry poses an issue for their Britishness. Ofcourse, they could claim the ancestors of the mesolithics i.e "their people" were highland hunter gatherers and thus their ancestors and them for of firmly British stock! Not beyond the bounds of belief, they tried to claim the hound of Cullen after all.

junder

I'te="T runner;88584978"]UVF angry with the DUP? Only a matter of time before they murder a Catholic, any Catholic so.

Are you saying that Republicans (large R) are deliberately inventing the UVF story? I cant speak for them . My source was a Sunday Times article post Haas collapse.

This isn't large sections of the community. This is a small section of sectarian crackpots in marginal seats in East Belfast. DUP voters? Well of-course! That's why the DUP acted to defend Orange/UVF interests. The legitimacy of the Northern state was not even questioned under Haas. The DUP could have had State Sectarianism written out of history of the northern state. Could have effectively blamed Republicans for EVERYTHING in time. It wouldn't have been the truth but they could have done it. But again they bowed, and the most hateful sectarians in NI again dictate state policy.

BTW Youre not still claiming to have a degree in politics from QUB are you? Seriously? You don't even know what's going on in the flag protest for Gods sake![/quote]

Now your just being insulting, regardless of my education I am and I live in a loyalist estate and I am part of the wider loyalist community, and yet you think you can lecture me on my community, does your arrogance know no bounds, next you will be telling me that the UVF, pup, orange order are all the same because martin mcguniess says so.

junder

T runner wrote: »

For Protestants to claim Mesolithic Irish ancestry poses an issue for their Britishness. Ofcourse, they could claim the ancestors of the mesolithics i.e "their people" were highland hunter gatherers and thus their ancestors and them for of firmly British stock! Not beyond the bounds of belief, they tried to claim the hound of Cullen after all.

Ah sorry I forgot you don't have a sense of humour I don't very much he was seriously claiming to be an actual mesolithic descendent, but was instead using it to demonstrate the silliness of the who was here first argument. However I do remember going to a conference hosted by the British and irish council in which some eminent professor from trinity college claimed that the last and purest concentration of neolithic blood left in Europe was to be found in Ulster, not sure what point was trying to make, maybe she was trying to give reason to triple nature of northern irish politics, it was along time ago so I forget

T runner

Now your just being insulting, regardless of my education I am and I live in a loyalist estate and I am part of the wider loyalist community, and yet you think you can lecture me on my community, does your arrogance know no bounds, next you will be telling me that the UVF, pup, orange order are all the same because martin mcguniess says so.

But if you have stated that you had a degree in politics from QUB when you haven't, how are we to take anything you say seriously?

I am stating that the UVF are now in charge of the flag protest. If you know what's going on in your own community then you'll know this is true. If you don't then you were waffling, like you were when you claimed you had a degree in politics from QUB, like you were when for example you claimed that Nationalists held the majority of public service jobs in Northern Ireland.


Loyalist issues now are a combination of believing the lies that have been told to them by their own leaders of Unionism, and complacency in a long held priviledged position above the Catholic working class. While the Catholic working class educated themselves, the Loyalists rested on their laurels assuming the state would forever keep them on top in the zero sum game that has been controlled by Protestants for 400 years.
That's over now. That's over son. Now you must EARN your jobs, your position on merit. Is this why there is so much anger? The poor loyalists dontw ant peace at any price? if the price is a fair society? aaaaahhhh

Unfortunately the one thing that loyalists will always listen to from Unionist leaders. And that is, blame the Catholics. Were not far off a sectarian murder now. But sectarianism will never disappear from Loyalist areas. Why is KAT (Kill All Taigs) is still visible on flags in Loyalist areas?
Loyalists are Unionism's little Rock Weiler against a united Ireland, always threatening to kill a few Catholics.

Karl Stein

junder wrote: »

large sections of the Unionist community have become disillusioned with the peace process

Why?

junder

Charles Rocher wrote: »

Why?

Good question, many feel that mainstream unionism has let them down, they feel the peace process is geared solely to appease republicans. They also feel that Republicans are now waging a cultural war with the destruction of the loyal orders, bands and indeed the their British identity. They see young loyalists being criminalised, arrested on trumped up charges such as waving a flag provocatively. ( I am yet to hear the police define when waving a flag becomes provocative) I

bilston

junder wrote: »

Good question, many feel that mainstream unionism has let them down, they feel the peace process is geared solely to appease republicans. They also feel that Republicans are now waging a cultural war with the destruction of the loyal orders, bands and indeed the their British identity. They see young loyalists being criminalised, arrested on trumped up charges such as waving a flag provocatively. ( I am yet to hear the police define when waving a flag becomes provocative) I

The VAST majority of mainstream Unionists don't give a toss about the flag issue. Sure in an ideal world they'd like the Union Flag flying from City Hall etc etc but they don't lose any sleep over it and most don't particularly care about the "Loyal" Orders either.

Karl Stein

junder wrote: »

many feel that mainstream unionism has let them down

What's new?

they feel the peace process is geared solely to appease republicans.

How is the peace process appeasing Republicans at the expense of these loyalists?

They also feel that Republicans are now waging a cultural war with the destruction of the loyal orders

How are the loyal orders being destroyed in this cultural war?

bands

Have any bands been 'destroyed' or forced to disband?

British identity.

I'm Irish. If I was held in solitary confinement, forced to wear union flag underpants and sing God Save The Queen every day at 6pm I'd still be Irish. It's truly beyond comprehension how someone's identity can be destroyed bar extreme brainwashing or psychosurgery.

junder

bilston wrote: »

The VAST majority of mainstream Unionists don't give a toss about the flag issue. Sure in an ideal world they'd like the Union Flag flying from City Hall etc etc but they don't lose any sleep over it and most don't particularly care about the "Loyal" Orders either.

Are you a unionist?

junder

Charles Rocher wrote: »

What's new?



How is the peace process appeasing Republicans at the expense of these loyalists?



How are the loyal orders being destroyed in this cultural war?



Have any bands been 'destroyed' or forced to disband?



I'm Irish. If I was held in solitary confinement, forced to wear union flag underpants and sing God Save The Queen every day at 6pm I'd still be Irish. It's truly beyond comprehension how someone's identity can be destroyed bar extreme brainwashing or psychosurgery.

You may not be able to convert somebody's identity but you can make the practice of that identity extremely difficult, you can use the vast array of media types to demonise a culture. Either way you can.choose.to ignore or make fun of this believe, but it won't change.what people think on the street

Karl Stein

junder wrote: »

you can make the practice of that identity extremely difficult

I'm guessing what you're getting at here is loyalists not being allowed to march wherever the hell they want? Well they better get used to it because those days are gone and they're never coming back.

you can use the vast array of media types to demonise a culture.

Loyalists do a fine job of demonising themselves with moronic behaviour like below without some conspiratorial media campaign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCwZC4zOobI

And this

feargale

junder wrote: »

Got to love republicans, always moving the goal posts. Since the creation of northern Irish state the term northern Ireland was anathema to republicans, for decades we where told that there was no such thing as a northern irish identity, suddenly some northern irish catholics start identifying with the the northern irish identity and suddenly republicans are ok with the term. Does that mean they will be dropping the terms 'occupied six county's' ' da north ' etc etc. Personally I am glad to see the rise of a northern irish identity and see it as another one of the family of British identity.

I'm not in the habit of referring to the " Six Counties", even though the term was first used by King George V at the opening of the Stormont Parliament, because it upsets some people. But what on earth is wrong with the colloquial use of the term " The North"? The place is north of us, and it is common practice to abbreviate lenghthy names. When is the last time you heard the United States of America so called by one of its citizens? This touchiness comes from an underlying sense of insecurity.

bilston

junder wrote: »

Are you a unionist?

Yep

bilston

feargale wrote: »

I'm not in the habit of referring to the " Six Counties", even though the term was first used by King George V at the opening of the Stormont Parliament, because it upsets some people. But what on earth is wrong with the colloquoial use of the term " The North"? The place is north of us, and it is common practice to abbreviate lenghthy names. When is the last time you heard the United States of America so called by one of its citizens? This touchiness comes from an underlying sense of insecurity.

It depends on the context really. Northern nationalists have always used it as a term to suggest that Northern Ireland isn't a country but is merely the north part of Ireland. That is obviously geographically accurate but politically not so.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest when people from the Republic use the term but even as a fairly liberal Unionist it does annoy me a bit when elected members of the NI executive use the the term. It may seem petty, but then the use of the term by northern Nationalists could be described as petty too.

junder

bilston wrote: »

Yep

Guess we move in different circles then, because the Unionists I know are still pretty pissed about the issue of the Flag or twaddle avenue etc, but then the Unionists I know, don't play golf

junder

Charles Rocher wrote: »

I'm guessing what you're getting at here is loyalists not being allowed to march wherever the hell they want? Well they better get used to it because those days are gone and they're never coming back.



Loyalists do a fine job of demonising themselves with moronic behaviour like below without some conspiratorial media campaign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCwZC4zOobI

And this

Where did I say that bands should be allowed to parade where they were want? I was asked why my community ( that would be the working class unionist community) feels alienated, I answered, if you feel they are wrong to feel that way, then go tell them they are wrong

Godge

feargale wrote: »

I'm not in the habit of referring to the " Six Counties", even though the term was first used by King George V at the opening of the Stormont Parliament, because it upsets some people. But what on earth is wrong with the colloquial use of the term " The North"? The place is north of us, and it is common practice to abbreviate lenghthy names. When is the last time you heard the United States of America so called by one of its citizens? This touchiness comes from an underlying sense of insecurity.

I use the term "the North" as one of a number of references to Northern Ireland but I can see how this may be offensive/objectionable to some in the same way as if Americans referred to Canada as the North and Canadians were offended or Germans referred to Danes as the North and Danes were offended etc.

That being said, it is difficult to find a neutral reference to the North, Six Counties, Northern Ireland, Western UK, Ulster, occupied territory etc. It would be useful for the discussions on this thread if we could find such a neutral nomenclature as it could take some of the rancour out of each thread.

Cork boy 55

Godge wrote: »

I use the term "the North" as one of a number of references to Northern Ireland but I can see how this may be offensive/objectionable to some in the same way as if Americans referred to Canada as the North and Canadians were offended or Germans referred to Danes as the North and Danes were offended etc.

That being said, it is difficult to find a neutral reference to the North, Six Counties, Northern Ireland, Western UK, Ulster, occupied territory etc. It would be useful for the discussions on this thread if we could find such a neutral nomenclature as it could take some of the rancour out of each thread.

The Pale is the correct term for that part of Ireland that is under the control of the English government, It has expanded and contracted in bloody spasms over the centuries and has taken different guises but alas it remains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale

dulpit

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

The Pale is the correct term for that part of Ireland that is under the control of the English government, It has expanded and contracted in bloody spasms over the centuries and has taken different guises but alas it remains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale

But there is no English government now.

Northern Ireland & Ireland (or the Republic of Ireland, or simply the Republic) are fine by me.

Irks me when the likes of SF refer to it as the 26 counties - 6 counties, lacks recognition of the countries.

The North/South is okay too really.

bilston

junder wrote: »

Guess we move in different circles then, because the Unionists I know are still pretty pissed about the issue of the Flag or twaddle avenue etc, but then the Unionists I know, don't play golf

Twaddell Avenue I'm sure matters to some of the local community and matters as a point of principle to the Orange Order, I just don't think the wider Unionist community is in the slightest bit bothered by it, in fact I'd say many are probably embarrassed. For me Flags and Parades aren't that important in the grand scheme of things.

I'm a lot more concerned about Sinn Fein's education policy and probably an area where you and I would agree is that I'm concerned about the eventual outcome in the discussion on how to deal with the past but for me Flags and Parades are an issue that does Unionism no favours at all.

Godge

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

The Pale is the correct term for that part of Ireland that is under the control of the English government, It has expanded and contracted in bloody spasms over the centuries and has taken different guises but alas it remains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pale

I consider myself, as a Dubliner, to be Irish, to be part of Ireland but also to live in the Pale.

Your reference is outdated.

MFdaveIreland

bilston wrote: »

Twaddell Avenue I'm sure matters to some of the local community and matters as a point of principle to the Orange Order, I just don't think the wider Unionist community is in the slightest bit bothered by it, in fact I'd say many are probably embarrassed. For me Flags and Parades aren't that important in the grand scheme of things.

I'm a lot more concerned about Sinn Fein's education policy and probably an area where you and I would agree is that I'm concerned about the eventual outcome in the discussion on how to deal with the past but for me Flags and Parades are an issue that does Unionism no favours at all.

I try to be reserved around these issues but it is hard sometime.

I'm an Irish nationalist from NI.
Do I 'hate' protestants? no
So why do loyalists 'hate Catholics', needs addressed

Recent comparisons between the GAA and the orange order? naming parks after so and so, etc.

One issue I have , believe it or not, I quite like listening to the bands , but I cannot join in , simply because the bands celebrates a victory over my religion, with many songs targeting my religion. I honestly could not give a stuff what 'offensive ' things people say, because I often ask, ok, tell me the difference between our religions, we believe in Christ? same God, what's the issue.

Regards some post relating to leaders of unionism brain washing their supporters. I actually believe this. I would also love to know what the Irish history books look like within the unionist education system, if they exist at all. I was targeted on my school bus many years ago by local loyalists on a daily basis simply because my school was catholic, I really don't understand it, nor would I throw stones at anyone because of their beliefs.

The question is then..

If your so passionate about your religion, and if that drives you, I would imagine that you are a regular church attendee .?

if its the flag issue, if its in line with the rest of the UK, other than the tripe the unionist politicians are feeding them regards ripping down our culture..that's rubbish

lastly , one thing that seems to be apparent, I could never understand how someone's nationality can offend. For example, up here, if say your Irish, people will tell you , you're not.

Im proud to be irish. fullstop

if your proud to be british , fair enough, full stop

But this incessant requirement for flags on every street pole in the place, to me, as a territorial gesture, nothing else. needs to end . go to England, see how many flags are hanging, very few.

go to Dublin , how many, very few.

I honestly don't know when and where it will end, but the politicians certainly wont solve it as they are too much entrenched in their own drivel based on incorrect ideals