Towards a United Ireland

orangesoda

I wouldn't have interest in a united ireland myself, i have no intetest in joining people who have no intetest in me or my people, i'd support an independant N.Ireland though and in a perfect world an independant Ulster which would never happen. I'm a proud O'Neill of Ulster though and would never change my culture just to please the unionist neighbours

tdv123

orangesoda wrote: »

I wouldn't have interest in a united ireland myself, i have no intetest in joining people who have no intetest in me or my people, i'd support an independant N.Ireland though and in a perfect world an independant Ulster which would never happen. I'm a proud O'Neill of Ulster though and would never change my culture just to please the unionist neighbours

What people are they?

Conchur

tdv123 wrote: »

What people are they?

In fairness to him, I have encountered a number of individuals from (the Republic of) Ireland who have attitudes ranging from suspicious to openly hostile towards northerners. Heaven knows where they get it.

I blame RTÉ.

tdv123

Conchur wrote: »

In fairness to him, I have encountered a number of individuals from (the Republic of) Ireland who have attitudes ranging from suspicious to openly hostile towards northerners. Heaven knows where they get it.

I blame RTÉ.

I would have expected it to be the other way around. It was the south who took the decision to abandon their fellow countrymen in the north & did nothing while the loyalists carried out their pogroms on the minority. If anyone should feel suspicious it's the minority in the north.

I blame the extreme conservative society of the Free State.

Conchur

tdv123 wrote: »

I would have expected it to be the other way around. It was the south who took the decision to abandon their fellow countrymen in the north & did nothing while the loyalists carried out their pogroms on the minority. If anyone should feel suspicious it's the minority in the north.

I blame the extreme conservative society of the Free State.

But RTÉ = extreme conservative society of the Free State.

tdv123

Conchur wrote: »

But RTÉ = extreme conservative society of the Free State.

Well RTE influence society in the south a lot that's true but there's lots of other factors as well like our Rome rule parliament for instance.

orangesoda

tdv123 wrote: »

I would have expected it to be the other way around. It was the south who took the decision to abandon their fellow countrymen in the north & did nothing while the loyalists carried out their pogroms on the minority. If anyone should feel suspicious it's the minority in the north.

I blame the extreme conservative society of the Free State.

I would agree with that, even when our men had fought with the old IRA as well. I view the ulster provincial flag as my national flag, there's just too many southerners who think they have the monopoly on irish cilture for my liking, they are happy with the republic that was won and so they can keep it like that as far as i'm concerned

Conchur

orangesoda wrote: »

I would agree with that, even when our men had fought with the old IRA as well. I view the ulster provincial flag as my national flag, there's just too many southerners who think they have the monopoly on irish cilture for my liking, they are happy with the republic that was won and so they can keep it like that as far as i'm concerned

I don't mean to be abrasive, but why let them have the monopoly? "Ireland", "Irishness" and the flag of the Irish Republic are ideas and emblems which do not belong solely to the inhabitants of the 26 counties which form the present day Republic of Ireland.

Most of what makes up Irish culture predates the border - one of the St Patricks is speculated to have spent most of his life in Down and Antrim, and it was while in Down that William Drennan coined the phrase, "The Emerald Isle" to refer to Ireland and her green countryside. Modern day unique aspects of our identity - such as the GAA - operate on an all-island basis. Men like myself from the Mountains of Mourne are as welcome in the parlour as those from Kilkenny's lakes so blue!

I feel as at home in Wicklow as I do in Tyrone, and no revisionist southern wannabe historian - no contrarian Conor Cruise O'Brien - will change that, much as they wish they could.

tdv123 wrote: »

Well RTE influence society in the south a lot that's true but there's lots of other factors as well like our Rome rule parliament for instance.

Amen to that.

tdv123

Conchur wrote: »

I don't mean to be abrasive, but why let them have the monopoly? "Ireland", "Irishness" and the flag of the Irish Republic are ideas and emblems which do not belong solely to the inhabitants of the 26 counties which form the present day Republic of Ireland.

Most of what makes up Irish culture predates the border - one of the St Patricks is speculated to have spent most of his life in Down and Antrim, and it was while in Down that William Drennan coined the phrase, "The Emerald Isle" to refer to Ireland and her green countryside. Modern day unique aspects of our identity - such as the GAA - operate on an all-island basis. Men like myself from the Mountains of Mourne are as welcome in the parlour as those from Kilkenny's lakes so blue!

I feel as at home in Wicklow as I do in Tyrone, and no revisionist southern wannabe historian - no contrarian Conor Cruise O'Brien - will change that, much as they wish they could.



Amen to that.

Exactly the Irish nation extends to the whole island it just doesn't stop at the invisible border. People living Tyrone or Antrim are just as much apart of the nation as someone living Wexford or Cork.

We didn't have a revolution just so we could change the color of the flag & to abandon half of the people who gave their blood for us & for 26 of the counties instead of being ruled by a Protestant conservative government to be ruled by a Catholic conservative government who embrace partition.

None of the promises made in the declaration of independence & the democratic program have been kept.

orangesoda

Conchur wrote: »

I don't mean to be abrasive, but why let them have the monopoly? "Ireland", "Irishness" and the flag of the Irish Republic are ideas and emblems which do not belong solely to the inhabitants of the 26 counties which form the present day Republic of Ireland.

Most of what makes up Irish culture predates the border - one of the St Patricks is speculated to have spent most of his life in Down and Antrim, and it was while in Down that William Drennan coined the phrase, "The Emerald Isle" to refer to Ireland and her green countryside. Modern day unique aspects of our identity - such as the GAA - operate on an all-island basis. Men like myself from the Mountains of Mourne are as welcome in the parlour as those from Kilkenny's lakes so blue!

I feel as at home in Wicklow as I do in Tyrone, and no revisionist southern wannabe historian - no contrarian Conor Cruise O'Brien - will change that, much as they wish they could.



Amen to that.

Yes they don't have the monopoly but those modern 'free staters' are ever growing, i've found that even the decent southerners who aren't bigoted have a partitionist mindset, calling us northern irish and themselves irish.

marienbad

orangesoda wrote: »

Yes they don't have the monopoly but those modern 'free staters' are ever growing, i've found that even the decent southerners who aren't bigoted have a partitionist mindset, calling us northern irish and themselves irish.

Well the constant use of the term ''free staters'' to describe them might show they are not alone in having a ''partitionist mindset''

orangesoda

marienbad wrote: »

Well the constant use of the term ''free staters'' to describe them might show they are not alone in having a ''partitionist mindset''

I never usually use the term, i was just using it to describe the southern anglo-irish who aren't too fond of nationalists. If you read all my posts i call the people of the state 'southerners'

Conchur

orangesoda wrote: »

Yes they don't have the monopoly but those modern 'free staters' are ever growing, i've found that even the decent southerners who aren't bigoted have a partitionist mindset, calling us northern irish and themselves irish.

Normally I find they do this to elude controversy (for instance, woe betide you if you were to call a unionist Irish), but those southerners who persist in calling somebody Northern Irish - even after this person has made it clear that they wish to be seen as Irish - are just idiots.

As I always say - you can call me Northern Irish if I can call you Southern Irish/Republic of Irish.

orangesoda

Conchur wrote: »

Normally I find they do this to elude controversy (for instance, woe betide you if you were to call a unionist Irish), but those southerners who persist in calling somebody Northern Irish - even after this person has made it clear that they wish to be seen as Irish - are just idiots.

As I always say - you can call me Northern Irish if I can call you Southern Irish/Republic of Irish.

I've seen situations when a non Irish person is wondering if a southerner is from NI or ROI, the person makes sure to tell them 'oh, no no i'm Irish, not N.Irish' as if they are afraid they will be seen as a norn iron yob or something.

I've also seen situations when southerners get offended by the British isles term and they say 'ireland isn't british only northern ireland is' it's a bit ironic them being offended by the british isles term when they obviously have a british mindset like that

Conchur

orangesoda wrote: »

I've seen situations when a non Irish person is wondering if a southerner is from NI or ROI, the person makes sure to tell them 'oh, no no i'm Irish, not N.Irish' as if they are afraid they will be seen as a norn iron yob or something.

I've also seen situations when southerners get offended by the British isles term and they say 'ireland isn't british only northern ireland is' it's a bit ironic them being offended by the british isles term when they obviously have a british mindset like that

What you are referring to is the typical "I'm all right, Jack" attitude of some of our brethren to the south.

marienbad

orangesoda wrote: »

I never usually use the term, i was just using it to describe the southern anglo-irish who aren't too fond of nationalists. If you read all my posts i call the people of the state 'southerners'

Well imho ''never usually'' is too much and I find it is frequently used in threads such as these in a deeply pejorative way and usually the poster goes on to tell them they have a 'british mindset' or some other such term in their next post .

orangesoda

marienbad wrote: »

Well imho ''never usually'' is too much and I find it is frequently used in threads such as these in a deeply pejorative way and usually the poster goes on to tell them they have a 'british mindset' or some other such term in their next post .

Fair enough, if that is your opinion. I will still stand by my 'british mindset' term though

marienbad

orangesoda wrote: »

Fair enough, if that is your opinion. I will still stand by my 'british mindset' term though

What is a ''british mindset'' please ?

orangesoda

marienbad wrote: »

What is a ''british mindset'' please ?

Someone who believes in the British rule of a portion of Ulster.

dulpit

orangesoda wrote: »

Someone who believes in the British rule of a portion of Ulster.

It's not really a British mindset though, is it? It's more of a realistic view of the situation as it stands, surely you agree to the principles of self-determination?

orangesoda

dulpit wrote: »

It's not really a British mindset though, is it? It's more of a realistic view of the situation as it stands, surely you agree to the principles of self-determination?

You could argue that it is, people who don't agree with N.Ireland being in the UK usually wouldn't refer to the place as British as they would view Britain as the island across the sea, regatdless of who runs the place

marienbad

orangesoda wrote: »

Someone who believes in the British rule of a portion of Ulster.

But there is British rule in a portion of Ulster ! De facto ! So what are you saying ?

That people who approve of that or people accept the reality of that or what ?

on the river

marienbad wrote: »

But there is British rule in a portion of Ulster ! De facto ! So what are you saying ?

That people who approve of that or people accept the reality of that or what ?

THIS IS WHAT IM SAYIMG. Ireland is a country so diverse in culture is something we should celebrate not critise. The reality is Ireland is divided by politics not by religion or culture . Ireland will be United eventually.
so stop questioning and join in praise for your nation . Have you any pride?

junder

on the river wrote: »

THIS IS WHAT IM SAYIMG. Ireland is a country so diverse in culture is something we should celebrate not critise. The reality is Ireland is divided by politics not by religion or culture . Ireland will be United eventually.
so stop questioning and join in praise for your nation . Have you any pride?

I certainly have pride in being British, cheers.for asking

marienbad

on the river wrote: »

THIS IS WHAT IM SAYIMG. Ireland is a country so diverse in culture is something we should celebrate not critise. The reality is Ireland is divided by politics not by religion or culture . Ireland will be United eventually.
so stop questioning and join in praise for your nation . Have you any pride?

Saying or shouting ? How did you decide that Ireland is divided by just politics and not by religion and culture ? Or a combination of all three ? And you can throw economics into the mix also .

As for your final extraordinary exhortation !

Why stop questioning ? One should always question don't you think ?

Join in the praise of your nation ? what does that even mean ?

As for your 'have you any pride' - who are you to even ask that . But it does entitled me to ask what have you done for your country and what makes you the arbiter of what should/should not be questioned ?

dyeti

I was once a fervent republican, but after growing up some years and thinking about it I came to realize, does it even matter anymore? I would of course PREFER a united Ireland, however I really don't see this happening. Unionists still hold the vote and I don't think Catholics really care that much anymore, I read some polls a while ago where apparently only 17% want re-unification.

But the reality is, what difference is there between here and up north? Apart from the change of flag (and that's depending where!), car regs and currency, I really find that everytime I go to Northern Ireland it's the exact same. If I want, I can go to Belfast and get a job and start life there. Someone in the North can choose to have a passport from the Republic.

It's all just lines on a map, we're both ruled by the same shower of cúnts too. I mean when I think of Ireland, I think of 6.2 million people, 6 major cities, 32 counties and 4 provinces. I understand and accept that people in the North are governed by the British government, some people identify themselves as British and that the British flag is commonplace. But that doesn't change the facts for me - it's still Ireland! Sure it's in the name, Northern Ireland

Does anyone get what I'm saying?

on the river

marienbad wrote: »

Saying or shouting ? How did you decide that Ireland is divided by just politics and not by religion and culture ? Or a combination of all three ? And you can throw economics into the mix also .

As for your final extraordinary exhortation !

Why stop questioning ? One should always question don't you think ?

Join in the praise of your nation ? what does that even mean ?

As for your 'have you any pride' - who are you to even ask that . But it does entitled me to ask what have you done for your country and what makes you the arbiter of what should/should not be questioned ?

firstly i am directing you in the right path.

it is clear in your tone you have an aggressive nature which needs to be controled.

So your questioning the very state in which you live where the greats of devalera and collins fought so hard for and then you just throw it all away .
as for pride you have done a very good job in disloyalty to the cause.

you have failed to give a clear stance on your views to this debate.

marienbad

on the river wrote: »

firstly i am directing you in the right path.

it is clear in your tone you have an aggressive nature which needs to be controled.

So your questioning the very state in which you live where the greats of devalera and collins fought so hard for and then you just throw it all away .
as for pride you have done a very good job in disloyalty to the cause.

you have failed to give a clear stance on your views to this debate.

As I thought -boilerplate rubbish

on the river

marienbad wrote: »

As I thought -boilerplate rubbish

Thank you . you have just shown your incapacity to engage with the debate.

marienbad

on the river wrote: »

Thank you . you have just shown your incapacity to engage with the debate.

Ha-ha, you joke of course. Sloganeering is not debating