Chael Sonnen Vs Jon Jones

leggo

garhjw wrote: »

It was a good performance from jones but it was obvious what sonnens strategy would be so he would have prepared accordingly

I don't think so. All I heard beforehand was people saying that Sonnen would have to try take him down (for Jones' first takedown ever etc etc). Nobody, that I saw, expected him to rush him and try and strike with him (though feel free to correct me if you posted saying he would), that was considered foolish given Jones' superior reach advantage and the fact he can control the range so effectively. Chael is known for pressuring, but then taking people down. But he rushed in and neutralised that reach advantage within seconds. Before being, y'know...neutralised himself.

MrStuffins

Gilbert Grape wrote: »

Keep dreaming,never happen

You're right.

Aldo will have moved up to LW by then. So McGregor will take the 145 belt from someone else and then take the 155 belt from Aldo.

garhjw

leggo wrote: »

I don't think so. All I heard beforehand was people saying that Sonnen would have to try take him down (for Jones' first takedown ever etc etc). Nobody, that I saw, expected him to rush him and try and strike with him (though feel free to correct me if you posted saying he would), that was considered foolish given Jones' superior reach advantage and the fact he can control the range so effectively. Chael is known for pressuring, but then taking people down. But he rushed in and neutralised that reach advantage within seconds. Before being, y'know...neutralised himself.

I didn't post anything but I thought sonnen was going to have to try rough him up before trying takedowns, otherwise they get stuffed. He had to close the distance or jones' range, as you said, controls the fight.

DeVore

DeVore wrote: »

Chael to dance about, threaten a bit, maybe fire a takedown attempt, get stuffed, lose direction, get caught in a clinch and destroyed.

I should bet on this sh*t

33theman33

Sonnen was a disgrace, a laughing stock. I would have done better than him!!. Jones was right in saying he doesn't have championship soul or character. Sonnen should pack in the real fighting and head over to wwe where he belongs, he's a loser, the guy can't win big!! he doesn't have the mentality for it.

I've my fingers crossed for Jones v Silva. I badly wanna see this fight!! I think Silva takes it but it will be very close!!

scudzilla

33theman33 wrote: »

Sonnen was a disgrace, a laughing stock. I would have done better than him!!. Jones was right in saying he doesn't have championship soul or character. Sonnen should pack in the real fighting and head over to wwe where he belongs, he's a loser, the guy can't win big!! he doesn't have the mentality for it.

I've my fingers crossed for Jones v Silva. I badly wanna see this fight!! I think Silva takes it but it will be very close!!

I stopped reading at the highlighted bit

33theman33

scudzilla wrote: »

I stopped reading at the highlighted bit

But you felt the need to post a reply :rolleyes: Look don't get me wrong I'm a Sonnen fan but jesus he was piss poor, never looked like winning and the look on his face when he was under Jones 'I'm a beaten man here' Very disappointing performance from him, I honestly believe I would have done better, I wouldn't have covered up like a coward for a start!!

Mellor

33theman33 wrote: »

But you felt the need to post a reply :rolleyes: Look don't get me wrong I'm a Sonnen fan but jesus he was piss poor, never looked like winning and the look on his face when he was under Jones 'I'm a beaten man here' Very disappointing performance from him, I honestly believe I would have done better, I wouldn't have covered up like a coward for a start!!

While the end result was the same, I honestly think that in the initial stages Sonnen did better than many of Jones previous opposition. He pressed forward, clinched, dirty boxed and removed Jones reach advantage, albeit briefly. I imagine fightmetrics will highlight this.


As for the second bolded part. Maybe you do honestly believe that but that doesn't make it true. Not covering up would only cause the fight to be stopped sooner.

dave1982

Win or not Chael comes to fight every time.He says he will fight anyone at any time last couple of years he is fighting the best of the best and anyone that does that deserves respect.Not crazy comments like I'd do better than him.I think if Jones hit me I'd die instantly it would be quick but painful

MrStuffins

In fairness though, the poster above does kind of have a point. Jones was right about Chael in a lot of what he said. He isn't a Champion. His bravado is a game he plays which he is unable really to back up when it comes to the crunch. He's a fantastic fighter, but he's not up there with the best and he knows it. He really does. And you could see it in the Jones fight. He knew he was in trouble and he kind of folded, if not physically, mentally.

There's nothing wrong with losing to 2 of the best fighters the sport has ever seen. It's kind of like the Ricky Hatton situation. Hatton was a beast who got his shot(s) and fell short both time against 2 of the best guys of their era.

The difference is that Hatton thought all along "I'm the best in the world, I can beat Mayweather & Pacquiao". At no point do I think Chael ever thought to himself "I'm the best in the world. I can beat Silva & Jones".

Jason McCabe

Don't get the Jones hate or the Chael love

Jones is a machine. Probably the best we have ever seen. Complete all round game

Chael is someone who was all talk but no walk in the end.


Bones is one of the most exciting fighter to watch. Pulls of some amazing stuff

leggo

To be fair, Sonnen has given Anderson a stiffer challenge than anyone else and got in Jones' face more successfully than anyone else. Sure he hit his ceiling against the pair of them...but then so has the rest of the MMA world! That's why they're ANDERSON SILVA and JON JONES.

If his two biggest championship rivals weren't probably the two best of all-time, Sonnen would've likely been a champion. He can hold his head high. The guy definitely isn't all talk.

Steve O

leggo wrote: »

To be fair, Sonnen has given Anderson a stiffer challenge than anyone else and got in Jones' face more successfully than anyone else. Sure he hit his ceiling against the pair of them...but then so has the rest of the MMA world! That's why they're ANDERSON SILVA and JON JONES.

If his two biggest championship rivals weren't probably the two best of all-time, Sonnen would've likely been a champion. He can hold his head high. The guy definitely isn't all talk.

Not to mention he completely dominated Bisping and Stann among others. Sonnen is definitely a dominant, explosive fighter but Silva and Jones are leagues ahead. Plus I am a huge fan of the trash talk if it's done right so he's one of my favourites.

Mellor

Steve O wrote: »

Not to mention he completely dominated Bisping ...

No he didn't.

Steve O

Mellor wrote: »

No he didn't.

Yep he did, first two rounds bisping popped him a few times but landed nothing significant. Third round was domination on Sonnens part.

Nice that you explained the reason for disagreeing though.

DeVore

I dont understand how Sonnen expects to win fights... I dont see much in his arsenal which will end a fight. Being a world class wrestler (which he is) isnt an end, its a means to an end imho. His BJJ looks poor. His striking seems not to bother people (witness Silva looking fresh as a daisy after 4.5 rounds of battering). When was the last time he ended a fight and how?

I think the dislike of Jones is that he has acted cocky when he *appears* to have been gifted his talents by mother nature rather than having worked for them. When you are born physically stronger, bigger, better... its hard not to see him dropping people like Machida as just a sort of bullying.

Its like someone bragging after winning a drag race because they can afford a Ferrari. You might admire the car the driver is still a dick.

MrStuffins

Steve O wrote: »

Yep he did, first two rounds bisping popped him a few times but landed nothing significant. Third round was domination on Sonnens part.

Nice that you explained the reason for disagreeing though.

Hardly a domination. Chael said himself that he thought Bisping won it.

Shazbot

DeVore wrote: »

I dont understand how Sonnen expects to win fights... I dont see much in his arsenal which will end a fight. Being a world class wrestler (which he is) isnt an end, its a means to an end imho. His BJJ looks poor. His striking seems not to bother people (witness Silva looking fresh as a daisy after 4.5 rounds of battering). When was the last time he ended a fight and how?

He expects to win fights by wrestling them and wearing them down. Not all fights need to be won by stoppage. Striking doesn't bother people? He dropped Silva more times in one fight than anyone else. Sure Silvas face wasn't a mess but he knew he was in a fight at the end of it. Sonnen finished Stann by arm-triangle not too long ago.

Fair play to Sonnen, he went out there and got in Jones face like he said he would. No shame in losing to Silva or Jones, Sonnen is just unlucky enough to be competing at the same time as 2 of the greats.

Mellor

Steve O wrote: »

Yep he did, first two rounds bisping popped him a few times but landed nothing significant. Third round was domination on Sonnens part.

Nice that you explained the reason for disagreeing though.

I didn't think it needed explanation. Your statement was nonsense. It was a close 29-28 win. Chael himself said afterwards;

"If Michael Bisping had won the fight 29-28 it wouldn't have surprised me".

Scar Tissue

I remember watching that fight and thinking how close it was and would be to judge. A 29-28 for either fighter wouldn't have shocked people, but saying Chael dominated him is ridiculous

Steve O

As I said earlier, from my recollection the first 2 rounds were close but the 3rd was domination by sonnen.

MrStuffins

So, what you meant to say was Chael Sonnen dominated part of a very close fight?

Not exactly what you were inferring in your post.

welkin

Bisping won the first two rounds imo.

Steve O

MrStuffins wrote: »

So, what you meant to say was Chael Sonnen dominated part of a very close fight?

Not exactly what you were inferring in your post.

Dear God, somebody get me a piece of chalk.

El Guapo!

Went away for the weekend and UPC decided not to record this.
Pain in me hole with UPC at this stage.

nino1

Steve O wrote: »

Dear God, somebody get me a piece of chalk.

someone should get you your coat.
if you can't see that by your own admission two close rounds and one dominant round is not overall domination then whats the point debating it.
after all if someone is awarded the two close rounds and gets dominated in the third they win the fight.

Tubbs4

DeVore wrote: »

I dont understand how Sonnen expects to win fights... I dont see much in his arsenal which will end a fight. Being a world class wrestler (which he is) isnt an end, its a means to an end imho. His BJJ looks poor. His striking seems not to bother people (witness Silva looking fresh as a daisy after 4.5 rounds of battering). When was the last time he ended a fight and how?

I think the dislike of Jones is that her has acted cocky when he *appears* to have been gifted his talents by mother nature rather than having worked for them. When you are born physically stronger, bigger, better... its hard not to see him dropping people like Machida as just a sort of bullying.

Its like someone bragging after winning a drag race because they can afford a Ferrari. You might admire the car the driver is still a dick.

2011 October he finished Brian Stann with an arm triangle in the 2nd round. Kinda funny since the triangle was one of his biggest weekness.

Bit stupid giving him the title shot as a miracle injury to Jones was the only way he could win.
But was only 30 seconds away from that happening and getting a title

MrStuffins

Tubbs4 wrote: »

2011 October he finished Brian Stann with an arm triangle in the 2nd round. Kinda funny since the triangle was one of his biggest weekness.

They are 2 different techniques.

Mellor

Tubbs4 wrote: »

Kinda funny since the triangle was one of his biggest weekness.

Getting triangled by Anderson Silva and Damien Maia doesn't make it a weakness. It means he's human.

Tubbs4

Mellor wrote: »

Getting triangled by Anderson Silva and Damien Maia doesn't make it a weakness. It means he's human.

4 times in total. Griffen was one and someone else.
I like Chael as a promoter and fighter, hoped he could win but with Jones it be hard. He's like floran now caught in limbo as I can't see him beating either champion and going up against Cain be suicide.
All thats left is a good run and 1 more title shot.

scudzilla

Paydays are out for 159

I'd love to know how Bisping got such a huge contract!!

Take out Fotn bonuses along with Jones, Nelson & Miller and Bisping earned more than the ENTIRE CARD put together!!

Something not quite right there

Michael Bisping: $425,000 ($275,000 to show, $150,000 win bonus)
Jon Jones: $400,000
Pat Healy: $152,500 ($17,500 to show, $5,000 win bonus, $65,000 Fight of the Night bonus, $65,000 Submission of the Night bonus)
Roy Nelson: $113,000 ($24,000 to show, $24,000 win bonus, $65,000 Knockout of the Night bonus)
Jim Miller: $106,000 ($41,000 to show, $65,000 Fight of the Night bonus)
Cheick Kongo: $70,000
Phil Davis: $60,000 ($30,000 to show, $30,000 win bonus)
Chael Sonnen: $50,000
Alan Belcher: $37,000
Ovince St. Preux: $34,000 ($17,000 to show, $17,000 win bonus)
Cody McKenzie: $20,000 ($10,000 to show, $10,000 win bonus)
Leonard Garcia: $20,000
Rustam Khabilov: $16,000 ($8,000 to show, $8,000 win bonus)
Bryan Caraway: $16,000 ($8,000 to show, $8,000 win bonus)
Steven Siler: $16,000 ($8,000 to show, $8,000 win bonus)
Sara McMann: $12,000 ($6,000 to show, $6,000 win bonus)
Gian Villante: $12,000
Vinny Magalhaes: $8,000
Johnny Bedford: $8,000
Yancy Medeiros: $6,000
Sheila Gaff: $6,000
Kurt Holobaugh: $6,000

leggo

Probably because of how he opens up the UK market to them. He'd be a big coup for another promotion for that exact reason, and it seems his management know it.

Mr. Manager

Well and truly surprised by Sonnen getting 50k and Nelson getting 24k...

Like it or not, Sonnen talks up every fight he's in and draws more numbers so I wonder why he's only getting 50k and Nelson isn't all that far off of a title shot IMO so the low pay is confusing there.

cowzerp

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Well and truly surprised by Sonnen getting 50k and Nelson getting 24k...

Like it or not, Sonnen talks up every fight he's in and draws more numbers so I wonder why he's only getting 50k and Nelson isn't all that far off of a title shot IMO so the low pay is confusing there.

That's the contract he's on now, when he changes contract that will change too.

Mr. Manager

cowzerp wrote: »

That's the contract he's on now, when he changes contract that will change too.

But surely both fighters were selling points when their last contract was up? Unless they're both still on their original ones?

the drifter

Jesus...50000 to get into a cage with john jones.....no thanks

Ian Whelan

Kurt Holobaugh: $6,000 (4,500 euro), hard not to feel sorry for the guy after the show he put on.

I wonder how much Jones gets from Nike.

cowzerp

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

But surely both fighters were selling points when their last contract was up? Unless they're both still on their original ones?

The UFC get lads on contracts that are very 1 sided, this won't change till the number of fights are up, and usually their contracts can be terminated to suit them at any time.

MrStuffins

Some of the UFC payouts are very confusing. I'd say Bisping has gotten himself Pini Zahavi or one of the other big football agents who are able to convince normally smart business men to give ordinary footballers a lot of money!

Sure at the recent Fox card, Nate Diaz got $15k. This is a guy who has about 20 UFC fights and has fought for the title. And he's getting less than Myles Jury got on the same card, a guy just coming out of TUF. Thinking bout it, his brother waltzes in from Strikeforce and gets about 16 time what Nate is getting!

Mr. Manager

cowzerp wrote: »

The UFC get lads on contracts that are very 1 sided, this won't change till the number of fights are up,

That's what I was saying, surely those original contracts are up... just surprising is all.

Richy06

That's only stated 'official' pay. Most of the news websites say that many of the guys, especially the guys on top, get a cut of the PPV and other non declared payments.

Bisping having such a huge contract is pretty obvious - he wins more than he loses and is a huge chip for them with the UK market. He's also pretty f*cking skilled.

MrStuffins

And UFC are well known for looking after their fighters. It's known that if a fighter puts on a good showing they'll drop an unexpected cheque in the mail to them after events, or give them other "Locker Room Bonuses".

I hate that term, sounds like they're rewarding each other with towel snaps and slaps on the a*se!

PerrinV2

MrStuffins wrote: »

And UFC are well known for looking after their fighters. It's known that if a fighter puts on a good showing they'll drop an unexpected cheque in the mail to them after events, or give them other "Locker Room Bonuses".

I hate that term, sounds like they're rewarding each other with towel snaps and slaps on the a*se!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBiq-A8ZgRM

p to the e

MrStuffins wrote: »

Some of the UFC payouts are very confusing. I'd say Bisping has gotten himself Pini Zahavi or one of the other big football agents who are able to convince normally smart business men to give ordinary footballers a lot of money!

Sure at the recent Fox card, Nate Diaz got $15k. This is a guy who has about 20 UFC fights and has fought for the title. And he's getting less than Myles Jury got on the same card, a guy just coming out of TUF. Thinking bout it, his brother waltzes in from Strikeforce and gets about 16 time what Nate is getting!

This is probably why Diaz changed management from Cesar Gracie. Cesar can do the coaching side of things but when it comes to the slimey stuff he's just not in a league with the likes of Ed Soares who will make life a living hell for Dana White until he's given a better contract.

The thing with Bisping is that he's a big draw. People either love him and tune in to see him talk crazy or hate him and tune in to see his head get smashed. Either way he's a big draw and big money to the UFC. Add to that a high flying agent and you've got big bucks.

Mellor

Id be very surprised I'd Sonnens pay was only 50k.
I'd imagine in reality it included a nice PPV bonus too,

leggo

Yeah I'd say he gets a % of PPV sales too, sure he did more work promoting this one than contributing to the card itself! :pac: Not a hope Dana doesn't pay him handsomely when you consider this whole thing was one giant thank you for being willing to save 151.

Double decker

chael got 8 million for the last anderson fight

scudzilla

Double decker wrote: »

chael got 8 million for the last anderson fight

Says who? Chael? Always one who'll believe what he says

Double decker

%ppv

ASJ112

Was sceptical about the above post but probably makes sense when you look at the contract that was offered to Eddie Alvarez in relation to PPV numbers. UFC 148 did really good PPV numbers as well.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/1/9/3858198/ufc-contract-for-eddie-alvarez-granted-immediate-title-shot-and-ppv

When Alvarez fights on a UFC pay-per-view broadcast, the offer entitles him to $1 for each "buy" between 200,000 and 400,000 buys, $2 per buy between 400,000 and 600,000 buys, and $2.50 per buy over 600,000 buys.

Am more curious about the Nate Diaz 15k to show. Those TUF contracts are horrible.