Court rules in favour of Waterford Crystal workers

TheQuietFella

We're not getting enough guys! Surely there is more out there?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garda-who-was-kicked-and-punched-while-making-arrest-awarded-156k-30919649.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teacher-wins-discrimination-case-after-nun-asked-what-about-the-homos-30919226.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/drugs-accused-dad-on-free-legal-aid-can-fly-to-disneyland-30918151.html

TheQuietFella

It will be about two years since the day of the protest in Dublin that we will receive our rightful dues.

Just a reminder to those who 'might forget' the genuine few that supported us 'on that day'

Beaner1

Must be sickening for a young person having to pay the pensions of these chaos whikst they themselves have zero chance of a defined benefit pension and will have to wait till 70 to retire in poverty. These are the same protected landlord class that controls the wealth in Ireland.

robtri

TheQuietFella wrote: »

It will be about two years since the day of the protest in Dublin that we will receive our rightful dues.

Just a reminder to those who 'might forget' the genuine few that supported us 'on that day'

I do not deny that you where due something.... it is a disgrace what happened...

my problem is that ur Rightful Due is been forcibly taken from others... they have to loose, so you get your rightful due....
that is wrong....

your issue is with the company and the unions....

While this pension was been grossly mismanaged and in deficit for a long period of time.... what where u doing to correct it???

Curly Judge

TheQuietFella wrote: »

We're not getting enough guys! Surely there is more out there?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garda-who-was-kicked-and-punched-while-making-arrest-awarded-156k-30919649.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teacher-wins-discrimination-case-after-nun-asked-what-about-the-homos-30919226.html

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/drugs-accused-dad-on-free-legal-aid-can-fly-to-disneyland-30918151.html

Nice to see the Diceys in such august company!
Hope you all enjoy our money1

wellboytoo

Defined benefit pensions are and were never sustainable as they cost too much to fund.
Unless you're in the public service and you have a million mugs working their ass off to pay for them.

Roanmore

johnsparkexile wrote: »

The scheme was in deficit like the majority of pension schemes in the country, it only became insolvent when the company closed.

You could argue that the failure of the Government to loan the company 39m in 2008 brought about the collapse of the company so they were at fault.

The scheme was governed by State pension legislation and regulations and was addressing the deficit. In 2008 months before the company collapsed measures were put in place in consultation and with the agreement of the Pensions Board to bring the fund back into profitability by 2016, so in 2008 the state was happy that matters were being addressed.

What? Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the pension fund and who pays for it, it's not the Governments responsibility to loan private firms money. The Government were not to blame for the collapse of the company.

7upfree

Roanmore wrote: »

it's not the Governments responsibility to loan private firms money.

* cough *

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/70bn-the-total-cost-to-the-taxpayer-of-the-bank-bailout-but-bondholders-will-pay-nothing-150015.html

7upfree

robtri wrote: »

I do not deny that you where due something.... it is a disgrace what happened...

my problem is that ur Rightful Due is been forcibly taken from others... they have to loose, so you get your rightful due....
that is wrong....

your issue is with the company and the unions....

While this pension was been grossly mismanaged and in deficit for a long period of time.... what where u doing to correct it???

* cough again *

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/70bn-the-total-cost-to-the-taxpayer-of-the-bank-bailout-but-bondholders-will-pay-nothing-150015.html

7upfree

ANNNNNND there is also this carry on. The crystal workers pale in comparison really.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1027174.shtml

In a 2010 report, the Comptroller & Auditor General said additional years had become a feature of pension awards in universities. By way of example, in UCD 78% of staff retiring between October 2007 and September 2008 had years added to their service for pension purposes.

These 42 employees had an average of 4.2 years added to their pensionable service and their average salary on retirement was €74,434.

Let those dates above sink in.

€3,126,228. In one year. In one place.

And we have people bitching about the Crystal workers? Get the rest of the place in order. Then come back and complain.

TheQuietFella

Roanmore wrote: »

What? Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the pension fund and who pays for it, it's not the Governments responsibility to loan private firms money.

How much did Bausch & Lomb receive to stay in Waterford?

Roanmore

TheQuietFella wrote: »

How much did Bausch & Lomb receive to stay in Waterford?

I don't know, you tell me.

Roanmore

7upfree wrote: »

* cough *

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/70bn-the-total-cost-to-the-taxpayer-of-the-bank-bailout-but-bondholders-will-pay-nothing-150015.html

So? I don't agree with that either.

johnsparkexile

Roanmore wrote: »

What? Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the pension fund and who pays for it, it's not the Governments responsibility to loan private firms money. The Government were not to blame for the collapse of the company.

I know full well who and what were to blame, and yes it WASN'T the Government.That comment was in reply to another posters assertions that the workers/union were to blame for everything that went wrong in the pension fund and the reason for it becoming insolvent.

If the Government has given the money, maybe it would have survived, maybe not, that's the thing we'll never know, the "if's", "why's" and "maybe's" people ask themselves when bad things knock on their door.

As for what Bausch & Lomb got ,according to RTE 19/11/14

"Management has now announced plans to invest €41m in manufacturing capacity at its Waterford facility on the IDA industrial estate.The investment is being supported by the Department of Jobs, Enterprise & Innovation and IDA Ireland. "

Call it what you want grant/loan, it saved a hell of a lot of jobs and that's all that matters

robtri

7upfree wrote: »

* cough again *

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/70bn-the-total-cost-to-the-taxpayer-of-the-bank-bailout-but-bondholders-will-pay-nothing-150015.html

Why u coughing again....
I dont agree with the bailout either!!
you must... no difference between banks been bailed out and WC pension been bailed out....

and look they have the money to pay......
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/waterford-wedgwood-owner-could-bag-400m-profit-on-sale-after-just-six-years-30920416.html

robtri

7upfree wrote: »

ANNNNNND there is also this carry on. The crystal workers pale in comparison really.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1027174.shtml

In a 2010 report, the Comptroller & Auditor General said additional years had become a feature of pension awards in universities. By way of example, in UCD 78% of staff retiring between October 2007 and September 2008 had years added to their service for pension purposes.

These 42 employees had an average of 4.2 years added to their pensionable service and their average salary on retirement was €74,434.

Let those dates above sink in.

€3,126,228. In one year. In one place.

And we have people bitching about the Crystal workers? Get the rest of the place in order. Then come back and complain.

you seem to have a problem with this,,, so do I ...
no one is suporting this behaviour... but using the excuse of they are doing worse so look at them not us as we take money out of your pocket is laughable... an absolute joke...

robtri

TheQuietFella wrote: »

How much did Bausch & Lomb receive to stay in Waterford?

and did u see the price of cheese yesterday!!!!!! unbelieveable...

again more smoke screens.. this is a thread about WC pensions not about B and L

if you want to discuss B and L.... open a thread about it

i will ask again.. while these pension where going insolvent, what where u doing about it???

TheQuietFella

robtri wrote: »

i will ask again.. while these pension where going insolvent, what where u doing about it???

This is the equivalent of asking an Air Asia passenger 'why did the plane crash'

People were paid to manage these funds & the government were supposed to enact legislation 'which they didn't' to protect all pensions! The same I suppose as driving without car insurance, now I wouldn't advise you do that, would you?

Best of luck btw to B&L. Glad that they're still here!

Beaner1

What could the government have done and how would that have affected the outcome?

7up how could you be in favour of the workers when Boko Haram are rampant in Nigeria. You're a hypocrite.

TheQuietFella

This thread has run its course. The same stupid questions with the answers already given on numerous occasions.

I would like to suggest that the thread be closed.

7upfree

Roanmore wrote: »

So? I don't agree with that either.

A small fraction of what was poured into insolvent faceless businesses that should not now be trading. The Glass drew tens of thousands of visitors here every year.

There is also the farce that is public sector pension "entitlements" as evidenced above.

And people zone in on a legitimately-won case.

A shower of begrudgers really.

7upfree

robtri wrote: »

and did u see the price of cheese yesterday!!!!!! unbelieveable...

again more smoke screens.. this is a thread about WC pensions not about B and L

if you want to discuss B and L.... open a thread about it

i will ask again.. while these pension where going insolvent, what where u doing about it???

The Quiet Fella is actually spot on. And you don't like it. Sauce, goose, gander.

robtri

7upfree wrote: »

The Quiet Fella is actually spot on. And you don't like it. Sauce, goose, gander.

what??????
making no sense....

just cause B and L got money of governement (which I havent commented on, whether i agree or not with it, as i think its completely different and unrelated) you think that makes it ok for WC to take money out of workers pockets ??

this is about WC

WC pension went tits up...

Employees lost entitlements and some money...

employees take money from other workers without their permission and think this is right....

simple

employees and employees friends and family feel they are entitled to it... and I agree they are.... I have said that from day one... but taking money from others pockets is not the right way to do it....

you dont agree, you think the government is right to take public money to pay for a private companies pension.... constantly ignoring that other workers are paying for it...
you are entitled to your opinion but taking about B and L or others will not change my opinion on it

Roanmore

7upfree wrote: »

A small fraction of what was poured into insolvent faceless businesses that should not now be trading. The Glass drew tens of thousands of visitors here every year.

There is also the farce that is public sector pension "entitlements" as evidenced above.

And people zone in on a legitimately-won case.

A shower of begrudgers really.

Read my posts again, I said nothing about the pensions (well besides the fact that I wasn't going to comment about it). I know people who have benefited from it and fair play to them, that was the lawful outcome (yes it is costing me money but it's like any group that has got compensation from the Government, I don't like paying for it but I accept it).

I had an issue with the poster (johnsparkexile) who I thought said that Waterford Crystal going bust was the fault of the Government but he clarified what he said, he didn't say it and he made a great point about B&L.

You say the banks should not have got a bailout, yet you say Waterford Crystal pension should have. Just remember if the banks went under a lot more of us would have lost our pensions and savings, Credit Unions and pension schemes were some of the biggest bondholders in the banks that everybody wants to burn.
If it happened you'd be be on here saying what a disgrace it was that the Government burnt your pension and savings.

TheQuietFella

And now if you are fortunate enough to have in excess of €100k in your bank & if it goes under all you will be covered for is €100k.

'I hear the train a comin' it's rollin 'round the bend'

http://www.centralbank.ie/paycurr/paysys/dgs/pages/about.aspx

7upfree

Roanmore wrote: »

You say the banks should not have got a bailout, yet you say Waterford Crystal pension should have.

No, read it again. And slowly. What I said is that the WC workers are entitled to it precisely BECAUSE of the bailout.

Beaner1

Classic two wrongs make a right argument.

Curly Judge

7upfree wrote: »

No, read it again. And slowly. What I said is that the WC workers are entitled to it precisely BECAUSE of the bailout.

Run that one past me again .
How , exactly, does the Bailout justify taking money from one workers pocket and putting it into another's?

7upfree

Curly Judge wrote: »

Run that one past me again .
How , exactly, does the Bailout justify taking money from one workers pocket and putting it into another's?

Are you still here?:D

The bailout will justify things for eons.

7upfree

Beaner1 wrote: »

Classic two wrongs make a right argument.

One being a very large wrong where faceless entities were given their bets back.

The other "wrong" being where normal people got a slice of this.

Justice.