Court rules in favour of Waterford Crystal workers

fricatus · 11-12-2014 10:30am

Curly Judge wrote: »

In other words from the private pensions of citizens who had nothing to do with, or responsibility for, WC workers?

Gotta agree with you that this is fairly sh1t. I'm providing my own pension, and this levy is eating up all the gains, which will leave me much worse off in the future.

The pension levy was brought in as being for "job creation" :rolleyes:

However it was never anything other than another tax, and a very unfair one at that. If it had been levied on huge pension pots (with say the first million untouched) it might have been some way fair.

Still though, the government doesn't ring-fence its funds AFAIK, so you can say that it's being funded by this, that, or the other thing, but the reality is that our income tax, USC, VAT, pension levy, property tax, car tax, etc. is all going to pay for this, just as it's going to pay for other nasty stuff like Anglo and Bertie's pension, and for nice stuff like the free travel, nurses' salaries, hospital beds and road improvements.

The good side of this is that this money won't be going into a black hole like Anglo. First of all, it will be taxed, and what's left will mostly go into the local economy, which can't be a bad thing.

TheQuietFella · 11-12-2014 11:13am

Do people really assume that there is going to be a splurge of cash from the former employees of Waterford Crystal?

fricatus · 11-12-2014 11:29am

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Do people really assume that there is going to be a splurge of cash from the former employees of Waterford Crystal?

Well this is the settlement:

jonnyfingers wrote: »

From the Irish Times website:

The settlement means:

•A tax-free lump sum for deferred members of the Waterford Crystal schemes of €1,200 per year of service.

and

•Workers with pensions under €12,000 will get 90pc of their pension.

•Workers with pensions between €12,000 and €24,000 will get 90pc of €12,000 plus 67pc of remaining benefit between €12,001 and €24,000.

•Workers with pensions in excess of €24,000 will receive 90pc of €12,000, 67pc of benefit between €12,001 and €24,000 and 50pc of any benefit above €24,000.

At its most basic, it means that well over a thousand Waterford residents will have some sort of tax-free lump sum in January, plus a higher income indefinitely. It's not bags of money from the sky - I won't be going into the hot-tub business on the strength of it - but it will definitely be a welcome cash injection!

Curly Judge · 11-12-2014 11:49am

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Do people really assume that there is going to be a splurge of cash from the former employees of Waterford Crystal?

This splurge of cash is quite irrelevant to the discussion.
They can spend it on Rolex watches or on cancelled orders of their own product for all I care.
What is at issue is where the money is to be purloined and the justification for doing so.
I maintain it is unfair.... and while irrevocably legal....unjust!

TheQuietFella · 11-12-2014 12:17pm

[/QUOTE] At its most basic, it means that well over a thousand Waterford residents will have some sort of tax-free lump sum in January, plus a higher income indefinitely. It's not bags of money from the sky - I won't be going into the hot-tub business on the strength of it - but it will definitely be a welcome cash injection![/QUOTE]

You're correct in saying that it's not bags of money & not enough to retire on gracefully. Even the sum total of the package is nothing to be getting overly excited about but the mind set appears to suggest that as soon as it arrives we're all going rushing out to spend it for the benefit of Waterford businesses!

I've had a lean six years with little prospect of a full time position & this money will be used for those times ahead when the back is to the wall.

Good luck to all!

TheQuietFella · 11-12-2014 12:26pm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1113/659226-aer-lingus/

Here for the benefit of others is the DAA pension which is deficit to the tune of €780 million. You can be assured that it's not the only one in trouble & there will be many more making the news in the coming year.

dzilla · 11-12-2014 12:57pm

Curly Judge wrote: »

This splurge of cash is quite irrelevant to the discussion.
They can spend it on Rolex watches or on cancelled orders of their own product for all I care.
What is at issue is where the money is to be purloined and the justification for doing so.
I maintain it is unfair.... and while irrevocably legal....unjust!

Because life is fair

Curly Judge · 11-12-2014 2:47pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1113/659226-aer-lingus/

Here for the benefit of others is the DAA pension which is deficit to the tune of €780 million. You can be assured that it's not the only one in trouble & there will be many more making the news in the coming year.

Who is going to bail them out?
And with whose money?

robtri · 11-12-2014 6:47pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1113/659226-aer-lingus/

Here for the benefit of others is the DAA pension which is deficit to the tune of €780 million. You can be assured that it's not the only one in trouble & there will be many more making the news in the coming year.

prepare the vaseline lads...

pure horse ****e coming down for us...

robtri · 11-12-2014 6:54pm

7upfree wrote: »

To be honest, you really are coming across as a begrudger. These men and women deserve everything they have coming, and have secured the pensions of thousands of other Irish workers in the process.

Well done to them.

and what about the peoples whose pockets this is coming out off.... is it fair on them????
I feel another bailout coming along for these other thousands of workers...

fiachr_a · 11-12-2014 7:06pm

What's the difference between former Waterford Crystal workers and Gay Byrne? Our lot won't need to work into their 80s!

7upfree · 11-12-2014 8:02pm

robtri wrote: »

and what about the peoples whose pockets this is coming out off.... is it fair on them????
I feel another bailout coming along for these other thousands of workers...

And so what? BILLIONS have been squandered on banks. Would you begrudge your fellow workers a paltry sum in comparison?

7upfree · 11-12-2014 8:08pm

Curly Judge wrote: »

I vaguely remember some public figure in the last few days state that the money for the WC workers would come from a levy on DF pension schemes countrywide. I can't remember his/her name or the programme they were on?
A post on this site stated that it would come out of general taxation.
Anybody know the real story?

A DF scheme??

Curly Judge · 11-12-2014 10:26pm

7upfree wrote: »

A DF scheme??

My mistake.
I meant a defined benefit (DB) scheme.

robtri · 11-12-2014 10:29pm

7upfree wrote: »

And so what? BILLIONS have been squandered on banks. Would you begrudge your fellow workers a paltry sum in comparison?

out of my pocket yes.... the same way i disagree with bankers been paid out of my pocket...

Curly Judge · 11-12-2014 10:31pm

7upfree wrote: »

And so what? BILLIONS have been squandered on banks. Would you begrudge your fellow workers a paltry sum in comparison?

If the money for the WC pensions was coming out of the millions given to the banks your suggestion would have some logic.
Seeing as it's going to come out of the pockets of workers ....some of whom will end up on much smaller pensions than the WC recipients...it has none!

Curly Judge · 12-12-2014 12:20am

fiachr_a wrote: »

What's the difference between former Waterford Crystal workers and Gay Byrne? Our lot won't need to work into their 80s!

And the fact that Gay Byrne has done more in his life to advance the cause and modernisation of Ireland than any hundred WC workers, has probably escaped your rather triumphalist sense of humour?

TheQuietFella · 12-12-2014 12:49am

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/howlin-roasted-over-bailout-to-cover-pension-lump-sums-30815013.html

CatFromHue · 12-12-2014 9:37am

TheQuietFella wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/howlin-roasted-over-bailout-to-cover-pension-lump-sums-30815013.html

"Why are you so truculent?," he asked of Mr Fleming.

I don't know what truculent means but if it's good I'm that

Deise67 · 12-12-2014 12:06pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't know what truculent means but if it's good I'm that

means contrary , awkward etc hard to believe I was accused of it once opon a time.............

7upfree · 12-12-2014 9:55pm

Curly Judge wrote: »

And the fact that Gay Byrne has done more in his life to advance the cause and modernisation of Ireland than any hundred WC workers, has probably escaped your rather triumphalist sense of humour?

An overpaid DJ. Like the rest of them in Montrose.

Curly Judge · 12-12-2014 10:32pm

7upfree wrote: »

An overpaid DJ. Like the rest of them in Montrose.

As opposed to overpaid factory workers with an overinflated opinion of their use to society?

mooseknunkle · 12-12-2014 11:15pm

Curly Judge wrote: »

As opposed to overpaid factory workers with an overinflated opinion of their use to society?

You just won't give up will you...forget about about it man they are getting their money so just move on and have a happy Christmas.

7upfree · 13-12-2014 9:29am

Curly Judge wrote: »

As opposed to overpaid factory workers with an overinflated opinion of their use to society?

I can only put this down to a bad experience with a crystal worker. There is no other reason for your outlook.

* This was a national institution, which attracted tens of thousands of visitors yearly.

* The workers - while highly paid - were taxed off the face off the planet, contributing tens of millions in taxes.

* Their charity contributions are legendary.
So don't be such a f*****g grinch.

As Moosknuckle says - happy Christmas.:). Now move on and let it go.

Curly Judge · 13-12-2014 11:21am

mooseknunkle wrote: »

You just won't give up will you?

For once... you're right!

Curly Judge · 13-12-2014 11:26am

7upfree wrote: »

I can only put this down to a bad experience with a crystal worker. There is no other reason for your outlook.

* This was a national institution, which attracted tens of thousands of visitors yearly.

* The workers - while highly paid - were taxed off the face off the planet, contributing tens of millions in taxes.

* Their charity contributions are legendary.
So don't be such a f*****g grinch.

As Moosknuckle says - happy Christmas.:). Now move on and let it go.

I understand they are meeting today to announce if they will accept the offer.
Very gracious of them!
A bit like a panhandler looking at the money you'd give him before he decided if he'd accept it or not.

conditioned games · 13-12-2014 11:39am

Curly Judge wrote: »

I understand they are meeting today to announce if they will accept the offer.
Very gracious of them!
A bit like a panhandler looking at the money you'd give him before he decided if he'd accept it or not.

Idiot post. The former workers have the right to make collective democratic decisions of what to do. It is not up to one worker to make decisions without consulting with everybody first.

manor · 13-12-2014 12:09pm

This was no national institution, it was a company/ business that simply went bust.

fiachr_a · 13-12-2014 1:02pm

Curly Judge wrote: »

As opposed to overpaid factory workers with an overinflated opinion of their use to society?

I remember back in the 1980s lads in my street getting jobs in WC once they finished school. They went from being ignored to respectable members of their community overnight. Neighbours were in awe of them because they got a permanent factory job.

martin12 · 13-12-2014 1:33pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r1gCS4O7fY

Curly Judge · 13-12-2014 1:52pm

martin12 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r1gCS4O7fY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

We could go on like this all day if you like?

7upfree · 13-12-2014 3:32pm

Curly Judge wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

We could go on like this all day if you like?

Are you still at it? Will ya give it a rest. I'm sure the WC lads have their feet up and are chuckling at you.:D

Curly Judge · 13-12-2014 3:42pm

Saw on news just now that they have decided to accept the offer.
They will get, up to, a 40,000 eur tax free lump sum in addition to the generous pensions.
This will come out of "central funds" which means that you and I, along with the poorest in society, will be financing it.
Happy Christmas everyone!
It's nice to see Santa work his magic.

The Bowling Alley · 13-12-2014 4:06pm

Curly Judge wrote: »

Saw on news just now that they have decided to accept the offer.
They will get, up to, a 40,000 eur tax free lump sum in addition to the generous pensions.
This will come out of "central funds" which means that you and I, along with the poorest in society, will be financing it.
Happy Christmas everyone!
It's nice to see Santa work his magic.

Will you ever just fuck off.

Curly Judge · 13-12-2014 4:33pm

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

Will you ever just fuck off.

No!

Deise67 · 13-12-2014 5:14pm

you coming out for a beer to celebrate ?

Curly Judge · 13-12-2014 5:23pm

Deise67 wrote: »

you coming out for a beer to celebrate ?

I might!
Are you buying?
It's probably the only way I'll get any of my money back out of Waterford.:)

Beaner1 · 13-12-2014 5:25pm

What a joke. The state bankrolling private pensions now.

Curly Judge · 13-12-2014 5:38pm

The workers at WC have now joined such elite groups as Bank of Ireland and AIB in raiding the public coffers to support their pension fund.
Only difference is we have some chance of getting the money back from B of I.... less so from AIB.
We have however, no chance of getting the money back from WC workers or their wonderful union.

Beaner1 · 13-12-2014 5:58pm

I have a great idea. I'm going to setup a new company. I'll employ a few mates on basic contracts but with pensions of 50K per year after the age of 45. I'll fold the company after a year or so and then we can all claim our big payoffs from the benevolent Irish state.

funnights74 · 13-12-2014 6:16pm

Yet again the Ordinary tax payer is ripped off by the goverment. Why are we responsible for private pensions when the pension company and the company itself goes bust?
Most private companies are insured against closure or redundancy payouts, was that not situation in this case.

Deise67 · 13-12-2014 6:30pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

I have a great idea. I'm going to setup a new company. I'll employ a few mates on basic contracts but with pensions of 50K per year after the age of 45. I'll fold the company after a year or so and then we can all claim our big payoffs from the benevolent Irish state.

read the EU directive idiot ! or maybe get someone to explain before you post drivel. cabbage !!!

Beaner1 · 13-12-2014 6:31pm

I really can't believe this. Why was the pension fund insolvent? I'll tell you. It was underfunded and overly generous. Big pensions were paid to people that had retired way out if proportion to their contributions. How has this become the states problem. The ponzi scheme collapsed leaving those at the bottom at a loss. Tough.

Deise67 · 13-12-2014 6:44pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

I really can't believe this. Why was the pension fund insolvent? I'll tell you. It was underfunded and overly generous. Big pensions were paid to people that had retired way out if proportion to their contributions. How has this become the states problem. The ponzi scheme collapsed leaving those at the bottom at a loss. Tough.

pint of bitter for u as well !

Kristopherus · 14-12-2014 1:03am

Jaysus, the begrudgery here is minboggling. Some people cannot accept that those retired workers were getting their just entitlement, decided by the highest court in E.U. I really hope they have a very Happy Christmas.

Curly Judge · 14-12-2014 1:54am

Kristopherus wrote: »

Jaysus, the begrudgery here is minboggling. Some people cannot accept that those retired workers were getting their just entitlement, decided by the highest court in E.U. I really hope they have a very Happy Christmas.

Ah yes.... but getting them off whom?
There's the rub!

fiachr_a · 14-12-2014 2:34pm

Kristopherus wrote: »

Jaysus, the begrudgery here is minboggling. Some people cannot accept that those retired workers were getting their just entitlement

That's Waterford boy! Imagine sending your kids to a good school and college only to see them move to Australia. Meanwhile, your neighbour spent his best years in a unionised factory and next month will be driving a 15 reg car!

The Bowling Alley · 14-12-2014 3:04pm

Kristopherus wrote: »

Jaysus, the begrudgery here is minboggling. Some people cannot accept that those retired workers were getting their just entitlement, decided by the highest court in E.U. I really hope they have a very Happy Christmas.

The very same reason why people almost get sick when they hear that the lotto was won in Waterford...

7upfree · 14-12-2014 4:57pm

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

The very same reason why people almost get sick when they hear that the lotto was won in Waterford...

Just reading elesehwre that in the past seven years, the HSE spent MILLIONS of euro buying out the pinion of senior "officers" so they could "retire rely, some on the basis of ill health".

If it were any mere private sector mortals they'd be told to f**k off down to the Labour and large a disability claim.

Yes, the begrudger here is staggering.

7upfree · 14-12-2014 4:58pm

Beaner1 wrote: »

I really can't believe this. Why was the pension fund insolvent? I'll tell you. It was underfunded and overly generous. Big pensions were paid to people that had retired way out if proportion to their contributions. How has this become the states problem. The ponzi scheme collapsed leaving those at the bottom at a loss. Tough.

Jealous much? Maybe a teeny bit bitter?

Court rules in favour of Waterford Crystal workers

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