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Court rules in favour of Waterford Crystal workers

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    #242
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    dzilla wrote: »
    Great post



    don't forget the mnc paying a pittance in tax on our shores

    And because, in your opinion, MNCs aren't paying enough tax it's okay to transfer money from people with small pensions to ensure others end up with larger ones?
    I like your logic....not!


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    #243
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    7upfree wrote: »
    It's actually 118 miles.
    I stand corrected.
    7upfree wrote: »
    That "overpriced glass" was perfectly and expertly crated by some of the best craftsmen on the planet. An incredibly stupid comment really.
    A bit like Arthur Scargill's "cheapest deep mined coal in Europe".
    Only trouble was not enough people wanted to buy it.
    7upfree wrote: »
    'Greedy unions/greedy workers"?? Are you ****ting me? After what the so-called "professionals" and "management" have done to this country??

    I'm not sure of the relevance really.
    Because one set screw up it should give carte blanche to another to do the same?
    7upfree wrote: »
    You are now just coming across as a complete begrudger who fails to see this for what it is - a victory for the common man/woman, not faceless, corporate financial parasites.
    If you think that one set of Irish workers screwing money out of another set of Irish workers is a good idea, I think I've proven my point.
    7upfree wrote: »
    What field do you work in yourself?
    Self employed manufacturing.
    7upfree wrote: »
    Is it private or public sector?
    Private sector.


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    #244
    7upfree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭7upfree


    To be honest, you really are coming across as a begrudger. These men and women deserve everything they have coming, and have secured the pensions of thousands of other Irish workers in the process.

    Well done to them.


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    #245
    dzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭dzilla


    Curly Judge wrote: »
    And because, in your opinion, MNCs aren't paying enough tax it's okay to transfer money from people with small pensions to ensure others end up with larger ones?
    I like your logic....not!

    Nope i didnt say that. There are bigger problems regarding where your taxation is going. These workers got what was due to them in a court of law.

    Where you happy the day that they lost everything?


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    #246
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    dzilla wrote: »
    Nope i didnt say that. There are bigger problems regarding where your taxation is going. These workers got what was due to them in a court of law.

    Where you happy the day that they lost everything?

    Of course not!
    How could it possibly benefit me when WC folded?


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    #247
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    I vaguely remember some public figure in the last few days state that the money for the WC workers would come from a levy on DF pension schemes countrywide. I can't remember his/her name or the programme they were on?
    A post on this site stated that it would come out of general taxation.
    Anybody know the real story?


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    #248
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    Curly Judge wrote: »
    I vaguely remember some public figure in the last few days state that the money for the WC workers would come from a levy on DF pension schemes countrywide. I can't remember his/her name or the programme they were on?
    A post on this site stated that it would come out of general taxation.
    Anybody know the real story?
    It is being paid from the pension levy imposed over the last three budgets


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    #249
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    It is being paid from the pension levy imposed over the last three budgets

    In other words from the private pensions of citizens who had nothing to do with, or responsibility for, WC workers?


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    #250
    dzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭dzilla


    Curly Judge wrote: »
    Of course not!
    How could it possibly benefit me when WC folded?

    Its just you seem very unhappy that they have got everything they are due back.


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    #251
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    Curly Judge wrote: »
    In other words from the private pensions of citizens who had nothing to do with, or responsibility for, WC workers?

    It could be looked at it that way , but I personally chose to look at it positively and as a boon to the workers and their families,and to Waterford. I would be perceived as a right wing capitalist by some, there is a lot of underlying resentment to the Glass on all sides , but it is better left in the past, onward and upwards. Let this be the end of it all.


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    #252
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    Curly Judge wrote: »
    In other words from the private pensions of citizens who had nothing to do with, or responsibility for, WC workers?

    Gotta agree with you that this is fairly sh1t. I'm providing my own pension, and this levy is eating up all the gains, which will leave me much worse off in the future.

    The pension levy was brought in as being for "job creation" :rolleyes:

    However it was never anything other than another tax, and a very unfair one at that. If it had been levied on huge pension pots (with say the first million untouched) it might have been some way fair.

    Still though, the government doesn't ring-fence its funds AFAIK, so you can say that it's being funded by this, that, or the other thing, but the reality is that our income tax, USC, VAT, pension levy, property tax, car tax, etc. is all going to pay for this, just as it's going to pay for other nasty stuff like Anglo and Bertie's pension, and for nice stuff like the free travel, nurses' salaries, hospital beds and road improvements.

    The good side of this is that this money won't be going into a black hole like Anglo. First of all, it will be taxed, and what's left will mostly go into the local economy, which can't be a bad thing.


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    #253
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Do people really assume that there is going to be a splurge of cash from the former employees of Waterford Crystal?


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    #254
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Do people really assume that there is going to be a splurge of cash from the former employees of Waterford Crystal?

    Well this is the settlement:

    jonnyfingers wrote: »
    From the Irish Times website:

    The settlement means:

    •A tax-free lump sum for deferred members of the Waterford Crystal schemes of €1,200 per year of service.

    and

    •Workers with pensions under €12,000 will get 90pc of their pension.

    •Workers with pensions between €12,000 and €24,000 will get 90pc of €12,000 plus 67pc of remaining benefit between €12,001 and €24,000.

    •Workers with pensions in excess of €24,000 will receive 90pc of €12,000, 67pc of benefit between €12,001 and €24,000 and 50pc of any benefit above €24,000.


    At its most basic, it means that well over a thousand Waterford residents will have some sort of tax-free lump sum in January, plus a higher income indefinitely. It's not bags of money from the sky - I won't be going into the hot-tub business on the strength of it - but it will definitely be a welcome cash injection!


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    #255
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Do people really assume that there is going to be a splurge of cash from the former employees of Waterford Crystal?

    This splurge of cash is quite irrelevant to the discussion.
    They can spend it on Rolex watches or on cancelled orders of their own product for all I care.
    What is at issue is where the money is to be purloined and the justification for doing so.
    I maintain it is unfair.... and while irrevocably legal....unjust!


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    #256
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    [/QUOTE] At its most basic, it means that well over a thousand Waterford residents will have some sort of tax-free lump sum in January, plus a higher income indefinitely. It's not bags of money from the sky - I won't be going into the hot-tub business on the strength of it - but it will definitely be a welcome cash injection![/QUOTE]

    You're correct in saying that it's not bags of money & not enough to retire on gracefully. Even the sum total of the package is nothing to be getting overly excited about but the mind set appears to suggest that as soon as it arrives we're all going rushing out to spend it for the benefit of Waterford businesses!

    I've had a lean six years with little prospect of a full time position & this money will be used for those times ahead when the back is to the wall.

    Good luck to all!


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    #257
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1113/659226-aer-lingus/

    Here for the benefit of others is the DAA pension which is deficit to the tune of €780 million. You can be assured that it's not the only one in trouble & there will be many more making the news in the coming year.


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    #258
    dzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭dzilla


    Curly Judge wrote: »
    This splurge of cash is quite irrelevant to the discussion.
    They can spend it on Rolex watches or on cancelled orders of their own product for all I care.
    What is at issue is where the money is to be purloined and the justification for doing so.
    I maintain it is unfair.... and while irrevocably legal....unjust!

    Because life is fair


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    #259
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1113/659226-aer-lingus/

    Here for the benefit of others is the DAA pension which is deficit to the tune of €780 million. You can be assured that it's not the only one in trouble & there will be many more making the news in the coming year.

    Who is going to bail them out?
    And with whose money?


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    #260
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1113/659226-aer-lingus/

    Here for the benefit of others is the DAA pension which is deficit to the tune of €780 million. You can be assured that it's not the only one in trouble & there will be many more making the news in the coming year.

    prepare the vaseline lads...

    pure horse ****e coming down for us...


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    #261
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    7upfree wrote: »
    To be honest, you really are coming across as a begrudger. These men and women deserve everything they have coming, and have secured the pensions of thousands of other Irish workers in the process.

    Well done to them.

    and what about the peoples whose pockets this is coming out off.... is it fair on them????
    I feel another bailout coming along for these other thousands of workers...


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    #262
    fiachr_a
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭fiachr_a


    What's the difference between former Waterford Crystal workers and Gay Byrne? Our lot won't need to work into their 80s!


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    #263
    7upfree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭7upfree


    robtri wrote: »
    and what about the peoples whose pockets this is coming out off.... is it fair on them????
    I feel another bailout coming along for these other thousands of workers...

    And so what? BILLIONS have been squandered on banks. Would you begrudge your fellow workers a paltry sum in comparison?


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    #264
    7upfree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭7upfree


    Curly Judge wrote: »
    I vaguely remember some public figure in the last few days state that the money for the WC workers would come from a levy on DF pension schemes countrywide. I can't remember his/her name or the programme they were on?
    A post on this site stated that it would come out of general taxation.
    Anybody know the real story?

    A DF scheme??


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    #265
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    7upfree wrote: »
    A DF scheme??

    My mistake.
    I meant a defined benefit (DB) scheme.


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    #266
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    7upfree wrote: »
    And so what? BILLIONS have been squandered on banks. Would you begrudge your fellow workers a paltry sum in comparison?

    out of my pocket yes.... the same way i disagree with bankers been paid out of my pocket...


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    #267
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    7upfree wrote: »
    And so what? BILLIONS have been squandered on banks. Would you begrudge your fellow workers a paltry sum in comparison?

    If the money for the WC pensions was coming out of the millions given to the banks your suggestion would have some logic.
    Seeing as it's going to come out of the pockets of workers ....some of whom will end up on much smaller pensions than the WC recipients...it has none!


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    #268
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    What's the difference between former Waterford Crystal workers and Gay Byrne? Our lot won't need to work into their 80s!

    And the fact that Gay Byrne has done more in his life to advance the cause and modernisation of Ireland than any hundred WC workers, has probably escaped your rather triumphalist sense of humour?


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    #269
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/howlin-roasted-over-bailout-to-cover-pension-lump-sums-30815013.html


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    #270
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,156 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/howlin-roasted-over-bailout-to-cover-pension-lump-sums-30815013.html
    "Why are you so truculent?," he asked of Mr Fleming.

    I don't know what truculent means but if it's good I'm that

    :D


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    #271
    Deise67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Deise67


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I don't know what truculent means but if it's good I'm that

    :D

    means contrary , awkward etc hard to believe I was accused of it once opon a time.............


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