The continuing adventures of updating the Touch Site

Dav

Hello all,

We've added a new feature to the Touch site which should be going live either this evening or tomorrow morning. As you can see from the image below, there's now a new "Create a Thread" button on the homepage. Now, to most of us here, the idea of creating a thread without having first gone to the forum you want to post it in seems daft, but for most new internet users, they have only ever seen Facebook or Twitter which has an immediate call to action to create content without any of that messy "where should this belong" business that us old hands like so much Every week for years we have been getting emails from people wondering how to create a thread (despite that very obvious "NEW THREAD" button on every forum) because they simply don't understand that this is a much more structured site than they're used to.

So here's the button (the red highlighting is mine). It's tucked away in the corner so's not to impact on existing screen real-estate, but it's distinguishable enough so's to catch the eye.



When you click on the button you're brought to the following screen which asks you to type up your post to start the thread off and will subsequently ask the person to "find a home" for it.



You're presented with a list of our categories, tapping on them will drill down further into the forums on the site. It's reasonably clear and will hopefully make it a lot more obvious to new members that you don't just post something to the ether on Boards, it has to have a home.



We should have this rolled out either this evening or early tomorrow. If you spot any problems with it, please let us know on this thread.

smash

Any chance of a sticky header option on mobile so I don't have to scroll to get to my forums list or homepage on long pages? Or even an option to display it as a user scrolls up the page like the Pinterest or chrome app does?

MugMugs

Dav, is the intention to push touch over Android/IOS apps?

Dav

smash wrote: »

Any chance of a sticky header option on mobile so I don't have to scroll to get to my forums list or homepage on long pages? Or even an option to display it as a user scrolls up the page like the Pinterest or chrome app does?

I don't know, but I'll certainly ask, it seems like a useful option, so if it doesn't take a lot of work to implement, I think it's worthwhile. However, I don't get final say in these things. I've been using the touch site a lot more myself recently in an effort to be better able to assess these changes and I'd agree that a sticky header would be useful especially as I browse with 40 posts per page (like a boss)

MugMugs wrote: »

Dav, is the intention to push touch over Android/IOS apps?

For the moment, yes. It's much, much faster to develop a universal touch screen site over native apps, but they're not being ignored.

We mentioned before I think that we had an iOS app built and in a beta stage and realised it wasn't much more than a wrapper on a touch site, and we figured if you're going to build a native app, it should be making use of the individual features that the platform can provide.

However, given the resource constraints we have (a serious lack of time and people), a solid touch site that'll work for as many people as possible is a better way to spend the time.

Amirani

Good new feature. I've been using the touch site a lot lately and would echo the desire for a stick navigation bar, or some other method that makes it easier to get to the top of the page.

Dermo

I like this feature but it essentially allows users to post to forums without seeing the charter or any stickied threads.

Discodog

I would prefer Boards to fix old problems first. Email notifications now take me to the main site. Even when they were working they would take me to the first post on Touch.

I reported these problems six months ago.

Boards.ie: Danny

Dav wrote: »

We should have this rolled out either this evening or early tomorrow. If you spot any problems with it, please let us know on this thread. in Site Development

FYP This has been deployed as of ten minutes ago.

Danny

Morag

Will this not mean more work for mods as people create new threads which then have to be moved?

enda1

Couple of issues to address for your consideration:

- Avatars show up even though I have the disabled in my CP (this includes my avatar by my name in top left)

- I can't seem to find a way to navigate to the top posts of the day page, this means I just use the full site

Boards.ie: Danny

Please file appropriate bug reports in Site Development for the avatars issue. We can address the issue on that thread and provide progress updates for you when we're fixing it.

As regards the top posts of the day - where is this page on the full site?

Danny

enda1

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

Please file appropriate bug reports in Site Development for the avatars issue. We can address the issue on that thread and provide progress updates for you when we're fixing it.

As regards the top posts of the day - where is this page on the full site?

Danny

http://www.boards.ie/?filter=thanks

I'll fill a bug report over there now.

Czarcasm

Dav wrote: »

Hello all,

We've added a new feature to the Touch site which should be going live either this evening or tomorrow morning. As you can see from the image below, there's now a new "Create a Thread" button on the homepage. Now, to most of us here, the idea of creating a thread without having first gone to the forum you want to post it in seems daft, but for most new internet users, they have only ever seen Facebook or Twitter which has an immediate call to action to create content without any of that messy "where should this belong" business that us old hands like so much

I'm becoming more and more confused every day with how boards chooses to identify itself, as if almost on a whim one day it's a community discussion site that doesn't want to be facebook, the next day it's a social media site that seeks to be more like facebook?

There was nothing messy about the site having a defined structure and categorised forums- you had an issue, you went to the relevant forum and did a search (although admittedly the search function on the touch site has always been pants!), or else started a new thread in said relevant forum.

This new change to me anyway just looks like cart before the horseology in that there are over 800 forums on boards, and the first thing you're accommodating is a willy nilly posting style where people will just shove the post in the first forum that's handy. It just seems to me like this change is more about content creation, than content quality. How much research has gone into this from a "benefit to the community" perspective as opposed to a "benefit to putting boards in a better position to attract advertising revenue" perspective?

Every week for years we have been getting emails from people wondering how to create a thread (despite that very obvious "NEW THREAD" button on every forum) because they simply don't understand that this is a much more structured site than they're used to.

Wonderful, they can't even be bothered to find the Newbies and FAQ forum so Boards accommodates them by telling them they can put it anywhere, and the Mods who give up their time voluntarily will clean up the mess by moving it to the proper forum, thereby confusing the OP when they go back to the thread and find themselves in a completely different forum (How many "Town" related threads are moved from AH to the Dublin City forum in a month, and that's only ONE example.

When you click on the button you're brought to the following screen which asks you to type up your post to start the thread off and will subsequently ask the person to "find a home" for it.

You're presented with a list of our categories, tapping on them will drill down further into the forums on the site. It's reasonably clear and will hopefully make it a lot more obvious to new members that you don't just post something to the ether on Boards, it has to have a home.

Key word highlighted there Dav, but to me this just looks like an exercise in pandering to lazy posters when they can't even be bothered to find the right forum to ask how to start a new thread, what in hell would make anyone think they'll be too bothered about finding the right forum when they DO start a new thread? The touch site is laggy and slow enough to navigate as it is (even now my phone is buffering like a mother typing this), but maybe Dav when you've had more time to be frustrated by how unresponsive the touch site can be at times, you'll see that you need to spend more dev time working on the problems that already exist rather than introducing frivolous features just for the sake of a dumbed down generation.

smash

Having just seen the button in action for the first time, I'll just say it's quite invasive... A menu icon with slide out options might be a better option.

Also, when outdoors you can no longer see the forums or profile button as the new post button is to much of a contrast, it just stands out and washes out the others!

smash

The button called 'post content' seems to be redundant as it's directing me to the desktop site homepage.

Czarcasm

smash wrote: »

The button called 'post content' seems to be redundant as it's directing me to the desktop site homepage.

I'm surprised even that the "post content" option was selectable before one had even "found a home" for their post, effectively "posting to the ether" as Dav put it, the very thing this "daft" (Dav did you do that on purpose? ) idea was supposed to prevent.

Both options though direct to the desktop site. Like I mentioned previously- I wonder how much testing is done on these "features" before they're rolled out, and maybe it's time to fix the numerous problems that have been introduced to the touch site from previous "feature" introductions before they start introducing new problems caused by rolling out new features having done very little lab testing in development.

hullaballoo

Czarcasm, the reality is that websites everywhere are having to adapt to the facebook/twitter model to survive because of their dominance. You have to appreciate that so many people now have access to the Internet via phones etc. but they are not seasoned netizens. We all know people who think that facebook = the Internet.

boards.ie needs to make itself accessible to the masses to survive. Like it or not, boards.ie needs to keep a constant flow of shiny new users to stay alive because there is necrosis at the other end where old hats leave or that IRL thing takes over their brains and boards.ie loses out to work and family in the list of priorities. Even if they revert to lurking, new posts are needed to keep them lurking.

Anyway, these people are used to:
Top Text box: [Say something new/ask a question/tell people your story]

Followed by:

The bulletin board layout is completely alien to them, much in the way facebook was initially fcuking terrifying for most of us. (By some accounts, it still is...)

Chop Chop

Are we able to upload from the mobile site yet? it's something I can't do at the moment for some reason, I just get a "404 timeout"

iPhone user.

Adyx

hullaballoo wrote: »

Czarcasm, the reality is that websites everywhere are having to adapt to the facebook/twitter model to survive because of their dominance. You have to appreciate that so many people now have access to the Internet via phones etc. but they are not seasoned netizens. We all know people who think that facebook = the Internet.

boards.ie needs to make itself accessible to the masses to survive. Like it or not, boards.ie needs to keep a constant flow of shiny new users to stay alive because there is necrosis at the other end where old hats leave or that IRL thing takes over their brains and boards.ie loses out to work and family in the list of priorities. Even if they revert to lurking, new posts are needed to keep them lurking.

Anyway, these people are used to:
Top Text box: [Say something new/ask a question/tell people your story]

Followed by:

The bulletin board layout is completely alien to them, much in the way facebook was initially fcuking terrifying for most of us. (By some accounts, it still is...)

Dumbing the experience down isn't going to do much to encourage the old hats to stay either though. Facebook is terrifying because it's a dumb experience wrapped up in an awful, over-complicated interface with "features" tacked on left, right and center.

At one point Boards, regardless of the amount of forums, had a relatively clean and unobtrusive interface. There were other features there (social groups, albums etc) if you went looking but they were by no means necessary to get the most from the site.

I have no problem with Boards getting a little more commercial and growing it's user base but pandering to the Facebook crowd isn't the way to go in my opinion. I hate to be so negative and I know I've been quite critical of the new UI in previous threads too, and it's a pity because I genuinely love Boards but I think a lot of established users might be driven away by the direction being taken.

Boards.ie: Danny

Chop Chop wrote: »

Are we able to upload from the mobile site yet? it's something I can't do at the moment for some reason, I just get a "404 timeout"

iPhone user.

Please report your bug with screenshots and describe the steps you're taking over in Site Development. The same goes for anybody with issues across the site.

Danny

Boards.ie: Danny

smash wrote: »

The button called 'post content' seems to be redundant as it's directing me to the desktop site homepage.

It's a known bug that if you click Post Content before entering in your title/content some obscure varnish rule will redirect you to the main boards.ie domain. If you're entering content then it's a different bug -so which is it?

Danny

Discodog

Czarcasm is spot on. The Touch site was better& easier to use six months ago than it is now. Developers have to promote change otherwise they don't have a job.

Boards was special because it recognised that it is nothing without it's regular posters. Now changes are imposed on us.

If we are to be used as development guinea pigs then we should be able to revert back if we don't like changes - the new posting system is bonkers.

hullaballoo

Adyx wrote: »

Dumbing the experience down isn't going to do much to encourage the old hats to stay either though...I genuinely love Boards but I think a lot of established users might be driven away by the direction being taken.

Discodog wrote: »

Czarcasm is spot on. The Touch site was better& easier to use six months ago than it is now. Developers have to promote change otherwise they don't have a job.

Boards was special because it recognised that it is nothing without it's regular posters. Now changes are imposed on us.

If we are to be used as development guinea pigs then we should be able to revert back if we don't like changes - the new posting system is bonkers.

Both of you effectively make the same point: old-hat users shouldn't have these changes imposed on them. You're right. That's why the changes aren't being imposed on you.

The development of the little (tiny) pencil icon on the touch homepage doesn't have any effect on your use of the site and it never will. You still go about your use of the site in the same way you always have - find the forum your looking for -> post there. Find a thread you want to read -> read it.

The new feature on the touch site is for people who are not used to that interface. It gives the option to people to use an interface that is familiar to them from their use of facebook. Just like you have the option of not using the feature.


The "argument" that boards.ie shouldn't be dumbed down to the level of facebook etc. is just noise rather than being a valid objection. There seems to be a suggestion that making boards.ie accessible for facebook users is a bad thing. The basis for this being a bad thing seems to be that facebook users who have not experienced the Internet are stupid or something. That too is rubbish. Some people are not techno-savvy. Facebook is accessible to people who are not techno-savvy and it is successful for that reason.

Thus, you're excluding people from boards.ie because "they don't know how things work around here." That's just not giving anyone credit for their intellect and tbh it's repugnant and ugly.

Scortho

Is there anyway to go advanced on the touch site.
Also is there anyway to multi quote on the touch site.
Although it increase my post count, it might annoy some posters if the last 2-3 replys in the thread were from me!
I find that most of my time on boards is now spent through the touch site and not the full site.

Discodog

hullaballoo wrote: »

Both of you effectively make the same point: old-hat users shouldn't have these changes imposed on them. You're right. That's why the changes aren't being imposed on you.

The development of the little (tiny) pencil icon on the touch homepage doesn't have any effect on your use of the site and it never will. You still go about your use of a the site in the same way you always have - find the forum your looking for -> post there. Find a thread you want to read -> read it.

The new feature on the touch site is for people who are not used to that interface. It gives the option to people to use an interface that is familiar to them from their use of facebook. Just like you have the option of not using the feature.


The "argument" that boards.ie shouldn't be dumbed down to the level of facebook etc. is just noise rather than being a valid objection. There seems to be a suggestion that making boards.ie accessible for facebook users is a bad thing. The basis for this being a bad thing seems to be that facebook users who have not experienced the Internet are stupid or something. That too is rubbish. Some people are not techno-savvy. Facebook is accessible to people who are not techno-savvy and it is successful for that reason.

Thus, you're excluding people from boards.ie because "they don't know how things work around here." That's just not giving anyone credit for their intellect and tbh it's repugnant and ugly.

They are being imposed. The only way to start a thread is the new way. New users will be totally confused & threads will end up all over the place.

Surely we want people to search & read before they start a new thread. The new system discourages this & reduces ad views. You can now start a thread without even seeing the charter etc.

hullaballoo

Discodog wrote: »

They are being imposed. The only way to start a thread is the new way. New users will be totally confused & threads will end up all over the place.

Surely we want people to search & read before they start a new thread. The new system discourages this & reduces ad views. You can now start a thread without even seeing the charter etc.

You can still start threads the old way. The Terms of Use cover most infractions.

Discodog

hullaballoo wrote: »

You can still start threads the old way. The Terms of Use cover most infractions.

Ok I have found the "post" button.

I disagree. Every forum has it's charter, faqs etc. The new system will lead to more threads being moved & more infractions.

hullaballoo

After a initiation period, people will get used to how things work and there's always leniency for new users, once they don't breach the general terms of use.

AlmightyCushion

I wouldn't worry about the charter or stickys. Nobody reads them any way especially not new users who this is aimed at. I think the vast majority of people will get by fine without them.

The big problem with the new feature is that the boards structure is a mess and even if you've been a member for a while and know the exact forum you are looking for finding it can be difficult at times. For a new user I'd say it's a nightmare. Would you guess that the game of thrones forum is under the arts category? Did you test the find a home feature on people not familiar with boards? If so, how did they get on? This to me is the big problem that needs solving, not just on the mobile site (but the solution needs to suit the mobile site as well obviously).

I do agree that it would be better to sort the problems first. The infinite loading bug being a particular pain in my ass since the most recent redesign. I don't even see what it offers over the old way of just loading a new page with the content. It even affected this new function when I was testing it out, after selecting the category it wouldn't load the next part. The loading image just kept spinning, the only way to sort it is to reload the page.

Plus there is the bug with the page numbers not loading (linked in with the above), these really should have been sorted before adding new features.

Czarcasm

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

It's a known bug that if you click Post Content before entering in your title/content some obscure varnish rule will redirect you to the main boards.ie domain. If you're entering content then it's a different bug -so which is it?

Danny

Danny I'm not picking at you specifically, I know yourself, Ronan and the rest of your team do some sterling work in the background on this site, but known bugs need to be sorted first before implementing new features, otherwise you're just pasting over the cracks in the site and the whole thing ends up lacking any cohesive structure, then good luck tracing back the source of the issue because the site code looks so messy from all the chopping and changing that's been going on around here lately.

Hullaballoo can you not see that the backbone of a discussion site is the quality of it's content, as opposed to, to use your own word- the quantity of noise created by users who instantly just want to make themselves heard, without any forethought put into their post.

Facebook and Boards are two different sites- one is a social media site, the other is a discussion site. I'm sure people as you say Hullaballoo are intelligent enough to understand that much. It's not objectors to the new layout that are claiming people more used to facebook are dumb at all, it's the dumbing down they object to!

Facebook has it's place and purpose, boards has it's place and purpose, and either boards is a social media site, or it's a discussion forum, because trying to be all things to all men has left boards ending up like a bad hack job of the two- old users are frustrated by the new layout, and my wife who is a non-technical person but enjoys facebook, when I showed her the new boards layout and site navigation, she was still pretty non-plussed about it, she just doesn't get boards at all at all because she's more used to the almost instant feedback from facebook, whereas boards god love you for having to wait five minutes or actually have to find the most relevant forum for your query.

Adyx

hullaballoo wrote: »

Both of you effectively make the same point: old-hat users shouldn't have these changes imposed on them. You're right. That's why the changes aren't being imposed on you.

The development of the little (tiny) pencil icon on the touch homepage doesn't have any effect on your use of the site and it never will. You still go about your use of the site in the same way you always have - find the forum your looking for -> post there. Find a thread you want to read -> read it.

The new feature on the touch site is for people who are not used to that interface. It gives the option to people to use an interface that is familiar to them from their use of facebook. Just like you have the option of not using the feature.


The "argument" that boards.ie shouldn't be dumbed down to the level of facebook etc. is just noise rather than being a valid objection. There seems to be a suggestion that making boards.ie accessible for facebook users is a bad thing. The basis for this being a bad thing seems to be that facebook users who have not experienced the Internet are stupid or something. That too is rubbish. Some people are not techno-savvy. Facebook is accessible to people who are not techno-savvy and it is successful for that reason.

Thus, you're excluding people from boards.ie because "they don't know how things work around here." That's just not giving anyone credit for their intellect and tbh it's repugnant and ugly.

I'm not excluding or suggesting that anyone should be excluded. Nor am I suggesting that Facebook users are dumb or stupid. I have an account myself. But we were all new here once and have presumably gotten to grips with the workings of the site without resorting to "type your message here and people will see it" kind of thing.

As you say, these new features are not yet being forced on us. I don't use the home page on the touch site and as long as it's available I'll be using the old beta. But it's the precedent being set that concerns me.

If there really is such a big problem with new users finding their way around, why not take a better leaf from Facebook's book and have an (optional!) tutorial thing that highlights features and explains the functions.