Home Page Redesign

?Cee?view

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

I've said as much on this thread many times already; because vBulletin is going away. We cannot and will not maintain two sets of software for longer than necessary.

Danny

Can you explain that a bit please for those of us who are not "techie"?

Why is vBulletin going? Has Boards.ie decided to stop using it for some reason or is being taken away?

If it is "going away", could you not just replicate its look/feel?

Tar.Aldarion

runawaybishop wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/? isn't going anywhere, is it?

This seems so much easier to absorb information from at the moment, it takes much longer on the new homepage.
But if you click on the tabs on that, it just brings you to the new page, lame.


An annoying thing is the pagination, you go to the bottom, go to the next page, are still at the bottom and have to scroll back up, then back down etc. Infinite pages ala reddit is the way to go on that one.

Boards.ie: Nicola

zom wrote: »

Less information you see, more pages you visit and more adverts you bump onto. Capitalism.

zom wrote: »

Real facts are that all that layout is about money.

As I've said before here, none of these changes are about ads or increasing revenue from ads on the homepage. Money was definitely not motivation behind the design.

ValerieR wrote: »

I don't know if these have been mentioned already as I must admit not having read the thread ... so, apologies if it is a repeat ...

Some observations :

- Overall, I find the page loading slower than with the vBulletin.
- When going back to the previous page (#tabs-myforums for example) from a thread with Chrome, the page goes back to the top instead of where I was before, requiring me to scroll back down to continue reading through the threads I am interested in.
- It'd be great if the time stamp of the last post was visible as it was before.
- It'd also be great if there was a little icon beside the thread title to go to the last unread post rather than having to navigate the whole way across the window to click on the number of posts.

I find the layout clear and pleasant.
Keep up the good work

V

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

churchview wrote: »

Can you explain that a bit please for those of us who are not "techie"?

Why is vBulletin going? Has Boards.ie decided to stop using it for some reason or is being taken away?

If it is "going away", could you not just replicate its look/feel?

Schorpio wrote: »

I understand the need to move away from vBulletin, but would it not be possible to redesign the former homepage in the exact same way as before but using API. Then make the new homepage the default for visitors/new users and provide the option in the settings to choose the old layout (albeit, the API version) for seasoned boardsies, for whom the old homepage was perfect.

I'm going to quote Danny as a reply, he has put it perfectly below.

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

There are some topics being raised I'd like to maybe give you some insights on

Why change?

Since before I joined Boards in October 2011 the goal has been to move away from vBulletin. I'm not going to bore you to death with details here; last July I spoke about it at the launch of the new skin, I've spoken about it in an AMA a few weeks ago and at various other times. I've no problem with somebody PMing me or starting a discourse in Site Development about it and we can talk to our hearts content

In short vBulletin is broken. It is an unsustainable platform for the future of Boards.ie despite having served us well. You guys don't think it's broken but that's because we're good with superglue and sticky tape. The time for those has ended, the sun sets of the age of Boards.ie powered by vBulletin.

With the end of vBulletin comes the end of vBulletin's care free attitude to user interface design. So our design team gets an opportunity to freshen up the site, to have the design match up with the functionality and features used on the site, to abandon the unused features (e.g. social groups, the calendar, the photo albums). The push towards the new style started with the touch site and before that there was the new Boards.ie search. It accelerated with the new style last July, the Talk-to forums in October/November and continues with the home page.

Why can't we just have the old one?

The infrastructure required to deliver the homepage has been changed significantly. We've gone away from vBulletin for the homepage. It's not possible to serve you the old one any more. For the same reason having an option isn't possible. We cannot change the infrastructure based on a user-specific option, the infrastructure sits on another level compare to user options, blissfully unaware about such things.

nesf

The infrastructure required to deliver the homepage has been changed significantly. We've gone away from vBulletin for the homepage. It's not possible to serve you the old one any more.

That's interesting, when I asked him a few pages back if this was the case he said it wasn't (i.e. the information required to serve the old page is available from the new software).

Boards.ie: Nicola

nesf wrote: »

That's interesting, when I asked him a few pages back if this was the case he said it wasn't (i.e. the information required to serve the old page is available from the new software).

There may be crossed lines, my tech knowledge is going to fall short here so I will ask him to clarify.

Spear

Would it not be an easier transition if the original homepage was simply converted to the new API, and not have a redesign merged in with it simultaneously?

Francie Barrett

It's fair enough that you wanted to move away from vBulletin, the problem is that the new design sucks. There's less information on the home page than before and you can no longer navigate to a forum with one click. It seems to me that you guys seem far too interested in pushing social networking type features (that no one uses) rather than creating a site that does its job properly (reading/creating messages).

Rabies

Hate the thread Thanks count.

Other than that, I suppose if we like the site for what it is, then we'll stay and adapt. Some of us have been through quiet a few changes. Threads like this always happen.

At the end of the day, the main design changes will be rolled out regardless. But if enough of posters suggest some changes to areas that they're definitely not happy with, then I'm sure the Admins/dev team will implement it.

Tallon

Just re-reading through this thread, and it seems the opposition for the change Greatly outnumbers the people who want it

That's including mods, cmods and admins... So why is it going ahead?

I really don't like it, it's so inconvenient compared to the original one

Boards.ie: Danny

nesf wrote: »

That's interesting, when I asked him a few pages back if this was the case he said it wasn't (i.e. the information required to serve the old page is available from the new software).

Let me clarify it for you

Delivery of both a vBulletin-based homepage and API-based one is a non-starter. The fact that /? works is an oversight. When the files behind that page are removed in the future the page will either 404 or redirect to the new homepage. As stated, we're not maintaining two code bases for longer than necessary.

The API has the ability to deliver the same features and data that the vBulletin homepage has - it's the same database, the same data. This is what you asked, is there any reason why the API can't deliver the same data as the old home page. The answer is no.

What is different is the way in which the data is presented after API retrieval. The view, the layout, what the user sees. This is all different. You've asked why, and I've told you I cannot answer that as I'm not a designer or UI/UX expert. One thing to ponder is which vBulletin-based homepage do we keep? The old beta? White? Green? New Beta? No matter which one we keep others will be disappointed, a lot of the people on this thread complaining are on the really old skins, they're being phased out and were never going to make it to the new Boards.

I'll finish by stating the design of the API-based homepage is iterative. What you have here is a version. Feedback given on this thread will be considered in the next revision or round of updates. This is yet another advantage to moving to the API-based homepage throughout the site; additions and improvements can be achieved at a much more rapid pace.

Spear wrote: »

Would it not be an easier transition if the original homepage was simply converted to the new API, and not have a redesign merged in with it simultaneously?

If both the infrastructure and the design change were separate then the infrastructure change would have gone completely unnoticed, much like the complete gutting of the themes system on the new skin has. The design change is what people are giving out about. Splitting it out would have only delayed the inevitable not to mention the waste of man hours having to implement a home page that was being redesigned.

Danny

_Kaiser_

Boards.ie: Nicola wrote: »

As I've said before here, none of these changes are about ads or increasing revenue from ads on the homepage. Money was definitely not motivation behind the design.

Really? I stand to be corrected here but I don't remember the "Talk To" list being first on the top banner? - before even the Boards.ie list?!

Look guys, it's time to admit you made a mistake on this one I think. The feedback has been overwhelmingly negative to these changes, so it's time to cut your losses and reverse them - or at the very least setup your new fancy software in a way that it emulates the previous look.

I really miss old Boards rather than the business its become in the last few years. Changes like this and throwing ads in between posts so as to "encourage" people to subscribe to get rid of them is nothing to do with UI or software requirements. It's revenue driven and pretending otherwise is just insulting our intelligence.

SVG

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

This is what you asked, is there any reason why the API can't deliver the same data as the old home page. The answer is no.

What is different is the way in which the data is presented after API retrieval. The view, the layout, what the user sees. This is all different. You've asked why, and I've told you I cannot answer that as I'm not a designer or UI/UX expert. One thing to ponder is which vBulletin-based homepage do we keep? The old beta? White? Green? New Beta? No matter which one we keep others will be disappointed, a lot of the people on this thread complaining are on the really old skins, they're being phased out and were never going to make it to the new Boards.

Any of them would be better than the new version because they all have way more information, are easier to follow and load more quickly.

_Kaiser_

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

One thing to ponder is which vBulletin-based homepage do we keep? The old beta? White? Green? New Beta? No matter which one we keep others will be disappointed, a lot of the people on this thread complaining are on the really old skins, they're being phased out and were never going to make it to the new Boards.


If both the infrastructure and the design change were separate then the infrastructure change would have gone completely unnoticed, much like the complete gutting of the themes system on the new skin has.
Danny

You're contradicting yourself there Danny.. on one hand you're saying that getting rid of the themes/skins has gone unnoticed.. but earlier you concede that there are many people still using them on the older interface?

A better question is to ask WHY people aren't embracing these changes, and personally I don't buy that a pretty tech literate, latest gadget/phone-owning user base like Boards has is just resistant to change. Sure there will be SOME of that, but not to the extent that has been made out here.

Simply put I don't think anyone has any problem with Boards moving to a new infrastructure that's easier to manage/support.. but the INTERFACE and the REDUCTION of functionality it brings is the core issue for many/most people here - particularly because it's being claimed this isn't the case and that it's nothing to do with revenue and making certain parts of the site more prominent when it's plain to see that this is the case!

nesf

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

Let me clarify it for you

Delivery of both a vBulletin-based homepage and API-based one is a non-starter. The fact that /? works is an oversight. When the files behind that page are removed in the future the page will either 404 or redirect to the new homepage. As stated, we're not maintaining two code bases for longer than necessary.

The API has the ability to deliver the same features and data that the vBulletin homepage has - it's the same database, the same data. This is what you asked, is there any reason why the API can't deliver the same data as the old home page. The answer is no.

What is different is the way in which the data is presented after API retrieval. The view, the layout, what the user sees. This is all different. You've asked why, and I've told you I cannot answer that as I'm not a designer or UI/UX expert. One thing to ponder is which vBulletin-based homepage do we keep? The old beta? White? Green? New Beta? No matter which one we keep others will be disappointed, a lot of the people on this thread complaining are on the really old skins, they're being phased out and were never going to make it to the new Boards.

I'll finish by stating the design of the API-based homepage is iterative. What you have here is a version. Feedback given on this thread will be considered in the next revision or round of updates. This is yet another advantage to moving to the API-based homepage throughout the site; additions and improvements can be achieved at a much more rapid pace.

Danny, I appreciate what you're saying what I'm saying is that stating that the move to a new API necessitated a change to a new homepage layout is false since the new API can deliver the information necessary for the only homepage. Sure some UI elements might need to change but the information available could be the same (i.e. same table layout, same number of threads shown, same tab options e.g. virgin).

What I'm getting at is there seems to be a line coming out that we needed to change because of the API change which the tech guys don't seem to be backing up.

Boards.ie: Danny

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You're contradicting yourself there Danny.. on one hand you're saying that getting rid of the skins has gone unnoticed.. but earlier you concede that there are many people still using them on the older interface?

The themes system is the system by which we deliver the default and dark themes on the new skin/style. It's not the removal of the styles system, that's a blatant change and one that's definitely noticed

_Kaiser_

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

The themes system is the system by which we deliver the default and dark themes on the new skin/style. It's not the removal of the styles system, that's a blatant change and one that's definitely noticed

Fair enough.. how about the other points I raised?

Boards.ie: Danny

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Fair enough.. how about the other points I raised?

Sure, even though the business side is nothing do with me

The menu is not part of this rollout and has its own feedback thread.

The inline advertisements were rolled back and have not made a reappearance. I'm not sure why it was brought up.

There is no money in the homepage redesign. It was done at cost though; development time and designer time. There aren't any new ads or revenue streams implemented.

What reduction in functionality do you have issue with? If we have missed something we want to know for the next iteration. We've already got several ideas to bring to the table like infinite scroll, highlighting read/unread threads better etc.

The interface changes were always going to be the toughest to make, especially for the old skin users. What else would you like me to say? I've repeatedly say that UI/UX/Design is not my area of expertise but know that your feedback is being seen by the people who make these decisions. We have analytics on a lot of elements of the new home page to see what people are up to, these too will factor into future revisions.

Boards.ie: Nicola

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Really? I stand to be corrected here but I don't remember the "Talk To" list being first on the top banner? - before even the Boards.ie list?!

Look guys, it's time to admit you made a mistake on this one I think. The feedback has been overwhelmingly negative to these changes, so it's time to cut your losses and reverse them - or at the very least setup your new fancy software in a way that it emulates the previous look.

I really miss old Boards rather than the business its become in the last few years. Changes like this and throwing ads in between posts so as to "encourage" people to subscribe to get rid of them is nothing to do with UI or software requirements. It's revenue driven and pretending otherwise is just insulting our intelligence.

I'll concede on that point; I was referring to the homepage itself-the menu changes were made prior to the homepage and were a separate project.

We are not for a second denying the negative feedback, we have been very very clear that the new homepage is here to stay but we will take into account and explore every viable suggestion.

I understand what you're saying about Boards becoming more of a business, the basic fact is that we need money to survive as a site, just to even maintain a site of this magnitude needs a lot of cash.

We've never pretended otherwise, I've been on Boards since I was 19 and remember the 'good' old days with less ads and rules but we are simply too big now to function like we used to. We need ads to run, rules to ensure we comply with the law and to move away from vBulletin before the whole thing collapses in on itself.*

*May be an overstatement

runawaybishop

Tallon wrote: »

Just re-reading through this thread, and it seems the opposition for the change Greatly outnumbers the people who want it

That's including mods, cmods and admins... So why is it going ahead?

I really don't like it, it's so inconvenient compared to the original one

People are more likely to post when they dislike something though. Its not really indicative of general opinions.

Chucken

Boards.ie: Nicola wrote: »

my tech knowledge is going to fall short here so I will ask him to clarify.

...imagine how the rest of us mere mortals feel then?

Im tired of asking but I'll try once more...How do we see new (virgin) threads??

Because if its a case of "You Cant", I fail to see the point of the site in the future.

Boards.ie: Danny

Chucken wrote: »

...imagine how the rest of us mere mortals feel then?

Im tired of asking but I'll try once more...How do we see new (virgin) threads??

Because if its a case of "You Cant", I fail to see the point of the site in the future.

I've already explained this, several times. There is no virgin threads tab, its level of use (1,980 times out of 3.3 million) did not justify the time it would take to implement.

To my knowledge nobody is having a hard time finding new threads, they come by them just as easily either by visiting their forums or by catching them on the latest posts page.

I'd really like it if you stuck around, you didn't amass 4,000+ posts by just conversing on virgin threads

Danny

Wile E. Coyote

I would just like to reiterate my original post.....

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Please put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back, put it back!

GreeBo

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

I've already explained this, several times. There is no virgin threads tab, its level of use (1,980 times out of 3.3 million) did not justify the time it would take to implement.

To my knowledge nobody is having a hard time finding new threads, they come by them just as easily either by visiting their forums or by catching them on the latest posts page.

I'd really like it if you stuck around, you didn't amass 4,000+ posts by just conversing on virgin threads

Danny

Except now they wont, because unless they are paginating they only see 12 threads?

"Latest Posts" was how I ever ventured out of my own few fora, thats not happening for me at all anymore, which I think is a huge negative.

Boards.ie: Danny

GreeBo wrote: »

Except now they wont, because unless they are paginating they only see 12 threads?

"Latest Posts" was how I ever ventured out of my own few fora, thats not happening for me at all anymore, which I think is a huge negative.

25 a page, and soon to be reviewed. Ideas brought to the table from here include infinite scroll up to 75 or 100 threads.

Danny

Creamy Goodness

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

25 a page, and soon to be reviewed. Ideas brought to the table from here include infinite scroll up to 75 or 100 threads.

Danny

infinite scroll? http://nooooooooooooooo.com

How will we ever get to the beautiful team page link in the footer then?

whiteandlight

Boards.ie: Danny wrote: »

25 a page, and soon to be reviewed. Ideas brought to the table from here include infinite scroll up to 75 or 100 threads.

Danny

Yes!! That would be awesome!

Boards.ie: Danny

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

infinite scroll? http://nooooooooooooooo.com

How will we ever get to the beautiful team page link in the footer then?

I did say up to 75 or 100 threads. True infinite scroll isn't possible Again, these are just some of the ideas we've had from here and will feed into the next round of updates so no promises or anything.

Danny

Earthhorse

So...pretty finite scroll then? :P

Boards.ie: Danny

Earthhorse wrote: »

So...pretty finite scroll then? :P

Heh, we'll see how it goes

Danny

Mr E

Suggestion: How about adding a new tab called "Classic", "Cozy", "Compact" or something similar that adapts the old table format?

So you'd still have "Latest Posts", "Trending", "My Forums", "My Threads" and "Thanks", but you'd have a new tab at the end. Anyone who visits boards.ie will see the "Latest Posts" by default (which is what you'd want).

However, if people want to bookmark a link like this:

http://www.boards.ie/#tabs-classic

... then they can. The link has the same link format/naming convention as the other tabs:

http://www.boards.ie/#tabs-thanks
http://www.boards.ie/#tabs-mythreads
http://www.boards.ie/#tabs-myforums (etc.)

I don't expect it would be a huge amount of work for the devs (a variation of the current format, but just broken into table cells - Topic, Forum, Poster, Date/Time in a nice easy to read table format).

If that tab existed, I'd bookmark it as my main boards link (as would most of the detractors here), and everybody wins.