Black and Tan Jack Russell

bmwguy

Hi, I'm thinking of getting 2 of these, my family always had 2 dogs together and I think its the way to go for companionship for each other. But thats not really my query, I'm wondering what actual breeds they are? I know people refer to them as Jack Russells but I dont think thats actually correct. Family had one (called Jack) up to 3 years ago, got him in 1994 so he lived to 16. Great little dog!

boomerang

Irish Jack Russells like the little black and tan one you have in mind are a type rather than a breed so there's no standard colour. I've seen plenty of black and tan ones.

Then there is the Parson Jack Russell, which is recognised by the Irish and UK Kennel Club, but that's a higher-legged dog with a wiry coat. (Think of Frasier's dog in the TV series.)

But in historically, terrier folk haven't been too worked up about their dogs being 'purebred' or having pedigrees. It's always been the dogs' working ability that's driven the breeding, rather than trying to create a standard appearance. In fact having a breed recognised by the kennel clubs can be to its detriment.

You will find plenty of these dogs about without having to look too hard, OP.

Dodd

I will say the color had nothing to do with it except that.....that was the color of the dog they had.
If the dog was another color would that be the color you would be looking for.?

They were most likely great dogs because your parents love them and looked after them........not because of their looks.

bmwguy

Dodd wrote: »

I will say the color had nothing to do with it except that.....that was the color of the dog they had.
If the dog was another color would that be the color you would be looking for.?

They were most likely great dogs because your parents love them and looked after them........not because of their looks.[/quote

I know its just I like them, its nothing to do with colour how long they live. Plenty available alright. Just think theyre a nicer colour than the mainly white dogs!

dollydishmop

bmwguy wrote: »

Hi, I'm thinking of getting 2 of these
[...]I'm wondering what actual breeds they are? I know people refer to them as Jack Russells but I dont think thats actually correct.

You're right. At best they are Jack Russell crosses. Some folks cross them out with manchester terriers or patterdales etc, to bring out bring out the black & tan colouring.
Cute dogs, but they aren't pure JRT, however I think you'd guessed that
Don't let me change your mind on wanting one, that is absolutely not my intention - just a little education on the breed.

boomerang wrote: »

Irish Jack Russells like the little black and tan one you have in mind are a type rather than a breed so there's no standard colour. I've seen plenty of black and tan ones.

The kennel club breed standard for the Jack Russell terrier calls for a minimum of 51% white, with either brown, black or brown & black (tricolour) patches...but definitely not black & tan. I can dig out the official wording as set out by the FCI if wanted, but that is the gist of it.
As far as I'm concerned, and in my opinion, 'Irish Jack Russells' is an awful term, coined by American puppy mills, to sell half-bred mutants to the gullible, but don't get me started on THAT particular rant!

boomerang wrote: »

Then there is the Parson Jack Russell, which is recognised by the Irish and UK Kennel Club, but that's a higher-legged dog with a wiry coat. (Think of Frasier's dog in the TV series.)

Parson Russells (not Parson 'Jack' Russells ) come in smooth coats too. And FWIW the Jack Russell is a recognised IKC breed too, and has been for many years now...

The JRT, a breed close to my heart, can you tell

boomerang

I don't go around referring to JRTs as Irish Jack Russells, just so you know. It's not a description I picked up off Done Deal. I was referring to non-pedigree JRTs bred in Ireland.

FWIW I don't think pedigrees are important when it comes to Jackers. Recognition from the KC is relatively recent, and the dogs got along just fine without it for over a hundred years. As have collies, until sadly they were recognised by the KC too.

aujopimur

If you're in the Cork area, I'm currently fostering 2 terriers that are best buddies.
They are house trained, vacinated and neutered, and are looking for their forever home.

bmwguy

aujopimur wrote: »

If you're in the Cork area, I'm currently fostering 2 terriers that are best buddies.
They are house trained, vacinated and neutered, and are looking for their forever home.

Thanks, it will be August when I get mine as I'm moving into my new house then, a month in Australia to visit my brother coming up first. I'm in Dublin anyway, but good luck with rehoming them anyway

DBB

boomerang wrote: »

I don't go around referring to JRTs as Irish Jack Russells, just so you know. It's not a description I picked up off Done Deal. I was referring to non-pedigree JRTs bred in Ireland.

Having been involved in rescue since before the days of donedeal etc, and I'm pretty sure boomerang will concur, I can tell you that "Irish Jack Russell" is an affectionate term used by rescue groups for many years to describe that generic jack russelly type... Colour, leg length, coat type, ancestry, not important! This is the first time I've ever heard it relating to puppy mills!
I'm pretty sure anyone in rescue in Ireland will know exactly what you mean when you mention an "Irish Jack Russell"!

Knine

dollydishmop wrote: »

The kennel club breed standard for the Jack Russell terrier calls for a minimum of 51% white, with either brown, black or brown & black (tricolour) patches...but definitely not black & tan. I can dig out the official wording as set out by the FCI if wanted, but that is the gist of it.
As far as I'm concerned, and in my opinion, 'Irish Jack Russells' is an awful term, coined by American puppy mills, to sell half-bred mutants to the gullible, but don't get me started on THAT particular rant!

Parson Russells (not Parson 'Jack' Russells ) come in smooth coats too. And FWIW the Jack Russell is a recognised IKC breed too, and has been for many years now...

The JRT, a breed close to my heart, can you tell

The IKC breed standard also accepts rough coated Jack Russells. I've shown several belonging to my friend.

dollydishmop

DBB wrote: »

This is the first time I've ever heard it relating to puppy mills!

You've obviously never googled the term then :eek:
Or better still "irish jacks" for some really vomit worthy US puppy mill sites.
I could tell you some utterly horrific, first- and second-hand, stories about some of the people involved, on both sides of the Atlantic!
In fairness, I've never heard the phrase used regularly over here. But maybe people just don't use the phrase around me, because they know I'll correct them haha! <blush>

FWIW those on here who know me IRL will hopefully concur that I've done, and still do to a degree, my own fair share of rescue work. I've also been around rescue since the pre-DoneDeal days, maybe we've crossed paths at some point?
That's in addition to IKC showing JRTs too and a stint on the breed club committee.
I could bore you stupid for hours on the roots and history of the JRT breed, and its association with the PRT too if you were interested. Truly, I'm a bit of a nerd on the subject

The OP wanted to know about black & tans, and whether they were pure jack or not. Hopefully I've helped some with his query.
And that's not to say that you don't get some really cracking little black & tans, because you do. I've met some real smashers. I just get hot under the collar about 'breeders' selling them as JRTs, when they're not.

DBB

To be honest, the only reason I posted was to clarify what may have been meant by "Irish Jack Russells" in the context that I hear it regularly.

ISDW

I'm sure dollydishmop and boomerang know each, or have met at least, and I can confirm that dolly has been involved in rescue for more years than she probably cares to admit, and also knows her JRT stuff. She may also know a thing or two about camper vans

Knine

One of the best dogs I ever had was actully a Black and Tan Jack Russell type. Fantastic dog, he helped in the hand rearing of numerous kittens/puppies and even a few pigeons.

dollydishmop

Lovely fella! When I was a teenager I think I had his twin sister! Absolutely his spitting image anyway, and she was a brilliant little dog called Paddy! (She looked like Paddington Bear as a puppy!)

aonb

I have two Jack Russell crosses (with a bit of Patterdale thrown in a few generations back) - because of the Patterdale strain, both (uncle and nephew) are brown with black 'feathering' on sholders, muzzels & tails. Identically marked. Both of their litter mates were ALL typical white/brown head combos.

I have seen VERY few black/tan JRT types lately...

Knine

I found that little dog in Blanchardstown Main Street. I called him in off the road as he was almost hit by a car. He followed me home to a friends house as I was minding her dog. I left out food and the next day he was there waiting:D

Before I officially became his new owner he used to run into the supermarket and come out with sweets or a bar of chocolate for himself :eek:

He ended up as Pets as Therapy Dog in James Connolly Hospital.

Brick Session

Hi, just a general query on Jack Russells please?

We want to get a dog and the kids are set on a miniature Jack Russell, colour not important I think. I have heard that they can be a bit snappy and are big dogs in little bodies.

Should I have any concerns about introducing this type of dog to my children, 12 & 8 years of age?

dunnerc

absolutely not, i have a 15 yr old jrt (sadly and heart breakingly)being put down very soon due to heart failure.he is an amazing dog very intelligent obedient great with kids,we have raised our 4 children with him and he never once turned on them,snapped or even growled at them.they do need a firm handling particularly when young,but trained right they make a fantastic pet and companion.

honerbright

+1 to everything dunnerc said, especially about needing a firm hand!

I've a 9 month old miniature Jack Russel and she is wonderful. I don't have any of my own, but she absolutely adores kids - she started crying one day when we went past a school because she couldn't go in and play with them. It took forever to get her to leave :rolleyes:
She does seem to think shes ten times bigger than she is though, shell bark at anyone she doesn't like the look of walking past the house. Not an ounce of aggression in her either, her best friend is a cat, who even though is a grumpy monkey at times she never growls or looses her temper with her.

Also, dunnerc, I'm so sorry about your dog

Brick Session

Thanks guys for both of your posts and @ dunnerc, I should have said sorry that a part of your family will be leaving you soon.

aonb

another +1 for JRTs. I've had several down thru the years, and they are just magic. Really intelligent, full of fun and great watch dogs. Really loyal and loving. Also agree that they need to be trained up as puppies, or they will rule the house - well they will rule the house anyway, but there are habits that you can break or downtone! Dont let your small children be too full on with them when they are puppies. Choose your breeder well (make sure you see the parents!)

DunnerC I have a 15yr old JRT also. Hes slowing down big time, and we know we're on borrowed time, but hes still full of the joys most days. I feel for you.

Knine

There is no miniature Jack Russell as such. They have a recognised breed standard and only come in one size. Of course you will get a variation of sizes in any breed but anyone advertising their dogs as miniature is probably best avoided.

dunnerc

thanks everyone we are all heart broken with our jack,but i always knew i would know when the time was right,and i think jack knows too ,it shows in his eyes,we have decided to bring him to the vet friday morning.

honerbright

honerbright wrote: »

I've a 9 month old miniature Jack Russel

Knine wrote: »

There is no miniature Jack Russell as such. They have a recognised breed standard and only come in one size. Of course you will get a variation of sizes in any breed but anyone advertising their dogs as miniature is probably best avoided.

I think when it comes to Jacks there's some confusion between the shorter legged fellows (the 'miniature' Jacks) and the taller, longer legged ones (The Parson Russell, I could be wrong?).
I know mine isn't a miniature, but a (short legged) Jack Russell, and she wasn't advertsied as a miniature. But when I took her in to first get her shots, the vet exclaimed 'Oh a mini jack!' and everyone that stops to talk to her on the street always asks if she's a miniature so I guess I'm just in the habbit of saying it myself now

Knine

I understand what you mean. The Parson also has their own breed standard. Friends of mine have Jack Russell's and I sometimes show help with showing them.

I've had several myself over the years. They are a lovely breed. I have Borders myself.

borderlinemeath

honerbright wrote: »

I think when it comes to Jacks there's some confusion between the shorter legged fellows (the 'miniature' Jacks) and the taller, longer legged ones (The Parson Russell, I could be wrong?).
I know mine isn't a miniature, but a (short legged) Jack Russell, and she wasn't advertsied as a miniature. But when I took her in to first get her shots, the vet exclaimed 'Oh a mini jack!' and everyone that stops to talk to her on the street always asks if she's a miniature so I guess I'm just in the habbit of saying it myself now

The problem is that puppy farms and bybs use names like 'miniature' and 'teacup' to sell dogs, when in fact very, very few breeds actually have a 'miniature' version. Dachshunds and pinschers come to mind but the reason these dogs were bred to be so small (over 100 years ago) was for the working ability of the dog, not for aesthetics, which is the ONLY reason that the likes of JRTs and yorkies are advertised as such.

It's such a shame that it's so commonplace that people actually think they are a separate breed, even worse when it's the vet.