confused about neutering..

skyline1515

Good evening all,

I have two Jack russels, both male 7 months old and brothers.. i have rang a few different vets getting prices for neutering.. my own vet and a few more gave a price and told me book in a week in advance.. however i spoke to another vet who said as they were brothers that they had to be neutered 6 weeks apart or they will fight each other afterwards if neutered together...

Im totally confused as to what to do, i want to get them neutered as we have no plans to breed them and my vet told me they can suffer from a prostate problem when they are older... I want to do what is best for my dogs...

Has anyone been in this situation or have any advise please..

Thanks

Bullseye1

From reading some well thought out posts from regulars on here I would be inclined to wait until they are fully grown (probably 12 months) especially for males. It helps with growth. On the other matter of 6 weeks I've never heard of it. Did the vet offer you reading material?

wolfpawnat

According to my vet student boyfriend (finishing 4th year this week) there is nothing they have studied that states they would fight. He found that baffling.

The recommended age to neuter a dog is 6 months. The longer you leave it, the more testosterone they have in their system, the more likely they are to be aggressive!

skyline1515

No reading material other than a tip sheet to having a puppy, and all that was on it about neutering was that they have to be six months old or older, but he advised six months... i want to do what is right for my dogs and not cause them any stress from this...

so would it be better for the dogs to leave them till they are a year old?

boomerang

I suppose it's because they can be a bit crotchety and sore after the op, so having them both out of sorts at the same time might be a recipe for trouble unless you're keeping a close eye. They might annoy each other with the cones, as well. I'd also prefer not to be have to minding two dogs, post-op - one is more than enough to look after at a time, I think!

Personally I prefer to neuter as young as possible, within reason. The recovery is faster and they're not as out of sorts. But at seven months I don't think another few months will matter.

wolfpawnat

skyline1515 wrote: »

No reading material other than a tip sheet to having a puppy, and all that was on it about neutering was that they have to be six months old or older, but he advised six months... i want to do what is right for my dogs and not cause them any stress from this...

so would it be better for the dogs to leave them till they are a year old?

The reach sexual maturity at 5-7 months, so 6 months is when ANY competent vet would recommend. It is up to you, but I would suggest doing it sooner rather than later.

skyline1515

wolfpawnat wrote: »

According to my vet student boyfriend (finishing 4th year this week) there is nothing they have studied that states they would fight. He found that baffling.

The recommended age to neuter a dog is 6 months. The longer you leave it, the more testosterone they have in their system, the more likely they are to be aggressive!

I had never heard of it either but as im new to owning dogs, i got worried when she said it to me as no one else had done so... They are nipping at each other lately and humping which causes one to snap at the other, so im thinking is it time to take them in...

skyline1515

boomerang wrote: »

I suppose it's because they can be a bit crotchety and sore after the op, so having them both out of sorts at the same time might be a recipe for trouble unless you're keeping a close eye. They might annoy each other with the cones, as well. I'd also prefer not to be have to minding two dogs, post-op - one is more than enough to look after at a time, I think!

Personally I prefer to neuter as young as possible, within reason. The recovery is faster and they're not as out of sorts. But at seven months I don't think another few months will matter.

My boyfriend and i have agreed to change our days off work so the dogs will be not be alone for at least 4-6 days after the op, i don't mind looking after them, i just didn't want to ignore what the one vet said and have to separate the dogs or re-home one, it would break my heart ..

wolfpawnat

skyline1515 wrote: »

I had never heard of it either but as im new to owning dogs, i got worried when she said it to me as no one else had done so... They are nipping at each other lately and humping which causes one to snap at the other, so im thinking is it time to take them in...

Oh yes, they are feeling the urges! When boys become sexually mature they get aggressive and rowdy, same as teen boys I would get them seen to soon were it me! Leave it too long, and it may take a while to get rid of testosterone and with two males, that would make them more likely to argue!

skyline1515

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Oh yes, they are feeling the urges! When boys become sexually mature they get aggressive and rowdy, same as teen boys I would get them seen to soon were it me! Leave it too long, and it may take a while to get rid of testosterone and with two males, that would make them more likely to argue!

Typical males lol, my mind is at rest now, thank you for all the advice.. must make the appointment and take them in.. and stack up on treats and toys

borderlinemeath

The research behind leaving a dog until he is fully grown before neutering is relevant to large/giant breeds. The risk can be that when the dog gets neutered the lack of testosterone can accelerate the speed of bone growth and lead to osteosarcoma/bone cancer.

The likes of a JRT would be a lesser risk at 6 months than a GSD who has far longer limbs and has a lot more growing to do from puppyhood. The below article is referring to rotties but any large or giant breed is at a higher risk than toy or small breed dogs.

http://www.vetcancerspecialists.com/resources/osteosarcoma/

Mo60

I had two of my dogs, both male but unrelated, neutered together on the same day. There were no problems between them and they were back to normal within a day or two.

Ms Tootsie

Our vet was pretty strict he wouldnt neuter large or giant breeds until 12 months due to the risks that can later develop. For medium, small and toy dogs anytime from 6 months on is perfectly fine. As others said the longer you leave it the longer he might develop the habits associated with testosteron anyway - humping, aggression etc.

As for getting them both done at the time while I have never heard the 6 weeks thing I would suggest leaving a few weeks between the two so you can allow one to recover and give you time to each of them individually. Dogs can be pretty grumpy, very sore, tender and generally not themselves for up to 10 days after a neutering op.

westies4ever

i think the recommendation is to neuter small breeds at 6 months (as they mature more quickly) and larger breeds at 12 months or maturity.

ISDW

I have no scientific reasoning for this, but I would neuter them both on the same day. Then I would have two dogs that were quiet, not one dog who was feeling sore and wanting quiet, and one lively pup wanting to play and antagonise him. Do you have crates for them OP?

DBB

Just to add one thing to the mix here. There seem to be a number of vets, and others out there who are brainwashing owners into feeling that if they don't neuter their pet, they're some sort of failure, they're not a good owner etc.
Ok, if you don't neuter your dog, and allow him or her to roam, or don't have a secure garden, then yes, this is irresponsible. But otherwise, what's the rush? Or indeed, the necessity?
The research into the effects of early neutering on dogs is very young.... 2009 if I recall correctly. Up to that, vets were routinely neutering Rotties and other large breeds without a second thought. I would worry that at this point, we simply don't know whether neutering smaller breeds, or females, prior to X age is harmful or not. Just because we don't know, doesn't give us carte blanche to whip their bits off, whilst telling the owner this is the best thing for their dog. Until we DO know, I would be slow to neuter any dog, of any size, prior to 1yr of age... And even then, unless he had testosterone-fuelled behavioural problems, I'm not so sure I'd neuter him at all.... Bearing in mind that my dogs will never get a chance to stray. This does not make me a bad owner.
The health risks of leaving a male, or indeed female dog intact are by and large very, very small: they have been shamelessly over-emphasised and exaggerated by the pro-neuter lobby. The misinformation given to owners can be pretty jaw-dropping. In this instance, for instance, I'm pretty sure I've read in the research papers that some prostate problems can increase in neutered dogs!
As for leaving a 6 week gap because they're brothers.... What? Just.... What?
Neutering a young male dog just because he's started humping a cushion is just.... Madness! It's natural, normal developmental behaviour, which even female pups and neutered males do. Now, by all means, if the young male is humping to a problematical extent, deal with it then, but most pups will eventually stop doing it with a bit of distraction training. But to race off to the vet at the first sign of such behaviour is premature.
Pups will growl and bite, and if you find that they start to fight as adults (the chances of this are higher in same-sex pairings, higher again if they're related), then the normal procedure is to neuter the less bullyish dog. This often resolves the problem. However, if both males are neutered before any adult problem behaviours are showing, then you've nowhere to go: they're both neutered, therefore both too "even", and the chances of having to get rid of one substantially increased. You will not know which one to get neutered until, and if, a problem appears. For the record, the vast majority of inter-dog aggression which occurs outside the home is not caused by testoterone, but by fear and lack of adequate socialisation.
So, that I hope puts another spin on things. I am pro-neutering to an extent, I used to he much more so until I started to take a more objective view (and read the research). I think we need a little more perspective when it comes to neutering, until we know more.

Ailishcrehan

Neutering the dogs earlier will reduce the chances of them developing unwanted behaviour such as marking their territory...as they develop, they do begin marking and it becomes a hard cycle to break so getting the snip before this starts is recommended. Personally, I would get the two of them done together because as someone else posted, you won't have the worry of one feeling fine and trying to play with the other who has just had surgery!

qvsr46ofgc792k

skyline1515 wrote: »

Good evening all,

I have two Jack russels, both male 7 months old and brothers.. i have rang a few different vets getting prices for neutering.. my own vet and a few more gave a price and told me book in a week in advance.. however i spoke to another vet who said as they were brothers that they had to be neutered 6 weeks apart or they will fight each other afterwards if neutered together...

Im totally confused as to what to do, i want to get them neutered as we have no plans to breed them and my vet told me they can suffer from a prostate problem when they are older... I want to do what is best for my dogs...

Has anyone been in this situation or have any advise please..

Thanks

My pup is now 7 months old and this is something I have looked into for the past few months.

I find the information I am recieving to be very contradicting to be honest.

I have deiced against neuutering him. Reason being is that I now believe, from the research i have done, that the reason neuturing your dog is promoted so much is to keep the dog population down and controlled. I feel a lot of the information is just scare mongoring.

That's just my two cents.

Ailishcrehan

Aside from the obvious reason for neutering...controlling the population, have you considered the other dangers associated with having un-neutered male dogs? They are far more likely to fight and have aggression issues (particularly siblings!), they are far more likely to roam and thus be in danger of getting injured/hit by cars, they are more likely to suffer from prostate related illness/cancer, training them will be more difficult, they will get frustrated..Its not scare mongering, its a reality that you most likely will face!!!

stusawop

Agree with DBB (forum Guru:D)
You might find the following links interesting reading.
Microsoft Word - LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs May 14 2007.doc - LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.doc - SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf

Don't Make This Mistake When Scheduling Your Dog's Neutering Procedure

As always, it's your choice and the decision should be based on what is best for your dogs and their health. I know that shelters and vets probably advise to neuter and spay erring on the side of caution to prevent unwanted puppies but if you are sure you can be a responsible owner then I think you should be free to make a choice.
Personally I probably would lean more to having a female spayed ( after all I am a male:p) because of ( from my limited reading) health benefits. I would add that I have owned two intact male Golden Retrievers from the same litter ...lived until they were 15 and 16 without any "aggro" and then two intact male homeless dogs (Border Collie and Retriever X who lived to 12 and 16. Presently have an intact male Collie/Retriever

jimf

imho it would be easier to have both done the same day then you will 2 rather sedate dogs for a few days rather than 1 who wants to play and 1 who just wishes he would pee off and leave him alone i was always of the opinion the sooner the better once the testes had fully developed because of the surge of testosterone at that age just be careful after they may not be able to do any damage to themselves with their collars but may be able to damage each other

DBB

Ailishcrehan wrote: »

Aside from the obvious reason for neutering...controlling the population

I'm afraid that this will evetually be proven to just not be true. It should, you'd imagine, stop unwanted pups, but in truth, the type of person who allows their bitch have unwanted litters simply could not be bothered neutering. It's an unforunate contradiction, that it's the owners who would never allow their dog or bitch get into a position to reproduce that are getting their dogs neutered. In other words, it's the wrong people who are neutering their dogs, from a population control point of view.
If anyone doubts this, I'd invite you to ring any dog rescue you like in the country. They'll all tell you that despite subsidised neutering programs and education campaigns, they're taking in as many pups and dogs as they ever did. Maybe more.

associated with having un-neutered male dogs? They are far more likely to fight and have aggression issues (particularly siblings!),

Not true. Whilst testosterone might fuel some kinds of aggression, it's not often the cause of it. As I said above, the vast majority of aggression, especially towards humans and dogs outside the home, is caused by undersocialisation.
The aggression between siblings occurs in as many neutered dogs as it does intact dogs, in my experience, it is not caused by testosterone. If it is testosterone that "causes" aggression between siblings, why is it that sibling bitches are a far more dangerous combination, as adults, than males?

they are far more likely to roam and thus be in danger of getting injured/hit by cars,

Not if they're in a properly secured garden, as all dogs should be, neutered or intact.

They are more likely to suffer from prostate related illness/cancer,

The risk of prostate cancer in dogs is very low anyway. The risk if testicular cancer is also low. The risk of other prostatic disorders (such as prostatitis) INCREASES in neutered dogs.
This health scaremongering is the lynchpin of the pro-neutering lobby, but I'm afraid when you look a little deeper, at the actual size of the risk in the first place, you'll find that the risks have been hugely exaggerated by the lobbyists. This is a shame, because it utterly discredits their word.

training them will be more difficult,

What? Evidence please? You'd better get onto police forces, customs units, prison services, search and rescue organisations, and sheepdog trainers, and gundog trainers to tell them this!

they will get frustrated

Some dogs will, some won't. They're more likely to get frustrated if living with an intact bitch, or near to one. That said, I know many a neutered male who experience frustration when bitches nearby come into heat too.

..Its not scare mongering, its a reality that you most likely will face!!!

With all due respect, it is scaremongering, the same stuff spouted by the pro-neutering lobby which intentionally misleads and misinforms owners. You, and the pro-neutering lobby can back up very little of this stuff, because a lot of it has already been shown to be guff. Or, it simply hasn't been shown AT ALL yet, one way or the other.
I think it's really unfair to deliver this misinformation to owners, it's not only one-sided and horribly biased, a lot of it is just wrong.
I think owners need to be given the opportunity to weigh up both sides of the argument, having been FULLY briefed on both sides. I think most responsible people are intelligent enough to make the right decision for their dog, in their circumstances, as long as they're informed.

kylith

The thing about not neutering is that you have to rely on everyone else being a responsible dog owner too. All it takes is for one person to bring an in-heat bitch to the park and you could be a figurative grandparent, or looking at a free-for-all amongst the males.

dollydishmop

skyline1515 wrote: »

I have two Jack russels, both male 7 months old and brothers..
[...]
i spoke to another vet who said as they were brothers that they had to be neutered 6 weeks apart or they will fight each other afterwards if neutered together...

wolfpawnat wrote: »

According to my vet student boyfriend (finishing 4th year this week) there is nothing they have studied that states they would fight. He found that baffling.

Same sex aggression is fairly well known in terrier breeds, and particularly noted in the jack russell breed, but perhaps that's not on the vet student syllabus.

However, in my experience its usually more serious between bitches. Boys tend to fight for status and willy-waving comps. Girls are more likely to fight to kill, and neither will back down. (Typical women - its OK, I can say that, I am one!)

If the boys aren't fighting now, neutering isn't going to make them fight. And neutering them 6 weeks apart is fairly flawed logic too, and won't make the blindest it of difference.
My advice is, if you're going to get them done, get them done now (anytime from 6-7 months onwards) and get them done together. You only need to go through the headache of dealing with sad boys, sore bits, stitches and the cone of shame once then
(I tend to leave young bitches longer before neutering because I want them to have had their first season first, if nothing else to make sure all is working and hormones aren't malfunctioning, but that's just me and I can be a little old fashioned on things like this).

JMVHO YMMV

dollydishmop

dollydishmop wrote: »

If the boys aren't fighting now, neutering isn't going to make them fight.

I ought to clarfy that, by saying that if they do start to fight down the line, later in life etc etc, it won't be the act of being neutered that causes it.

wolfpawnat

DBB is right. Some vets try to force it on you. In the college they are warned many vets, like in other professions, are only after the few bob! If a person does not want to neuter their dog, that is their prerogative. They may have aggressive traits from testosterone, they may not. I never neutered my Yorkie, sweetest animal alive. The one thing that is guaranteed with a neutering is they cannot get testicular cancer, but that is not saying for a moment that to keep their goolies means they would ever get it in the first case!

Knine

I also agree with DBB.

I have had both both neutered and entire over the years and the entire males had much more drive then the dogs that were snipped. They were much more willing to work.

My bitches are not spayed and have much better muscle tone and shape then their spayed equivalent. For me the changes in coat type after spaying is also a problem. However unspayed bitches can be fairly moody at times.

boomerang

Our family dog of years ago was never neutered and developed testicular cancer at an advanced age, requiring neutering when he had a greater anaesthetic risk. Just sayin'. He came through fine thank god.

I wouldn't have an un-neutered bitch and I will be honest and say it it mostly for my own convenience. But I also wouldn't run the risk of her developing mammary cancer, pyometra or diabetes. I've seen it too often.

One of the problems about bringing this debate out into the open is the fear that the irresponsible owners (who allow their dogs to wander and/or to breed indiscriminately) will seize on our concerns as a reason *not* to neuter. Though possibly they'd never get around to it anyways.

Mo60

I now have all my dogs neutered - the males for territory marking competions and the females for piece of mind.
With females no matter how careful you are things can go wrong. My dogs cannot get out and are are never left on their own outside but on one occasion, when my Cairn X was a pup, she had come into heat without me realising. I turned around to find that a neighbour's ancient Collie had jumped over my front wall and was about to do the deed. Age did not deter him, firstly jumping a fairly high wall and then lying down on the ground with my dog - where there's a will there's a way.

tk123

I'm on the fence tbh but something to keep in mind is that a lot of kennels, daycares etc won't take males unless they're neutered which may or may not be a problem for you..

Binka

It is also a condition of taking in a rescue dog or cat from most animal rescue places. They will usually neuter the dog before you take it, but if they can't for reasons of trauma etc, you have to send them the bill for doing it yourself. If you don't, you can't have the animal.
I can't speak for all of them but from my experience, and I have had dealings with 3 different rescues, I was not given an option.