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€800 -€1.2k gaming computer

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    #32
    Serephucus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭Serephucus


    I think I'll poke that friend of mine who may/may not take my parts come Haswell, and see if he minds getting a de-lidded chip... At this point I'm curious to see how far I can take it. 4.7 and I was getting temps of around 80° from Prime.


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    #33
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Serephucus wrote: »
    I think I'll poke that friend of mine who may/may not take my parts come Haswell, and see if he minds getting a de-lidded chip... At this point I'm curious to see how far I can take it. 4.7 and I was getting temps of around 80° from Prime.

    I was thinking of buying a nice cooler IF I end up purchasing Haswell. I might even get it now and see how far I can take this chip. I am comfortably 4.6 at the moment, the fan doesn't ramp up when gaming much at all (no more than ambient fan temps really). Never go over 60 degrees while gaming.

    What cooler you have to get 4.7ghz with 80 degrees in Prime? At what voltage too?


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    #34
    Serephucus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭Serephucus


    Water loop, with a bunch of radiator, and probably a lot of air bubbles too. Needed voltage of around 1.35 for 4.7, IIRC.


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    #35
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Serephucus wrote: »
    Water loop, with a bunch of radiator, and probably a lot of air bubbles too. Needed voltage of around 1.35 for 4.7, IIRC.

    Looks near enough to my chip. I need 1.275v for 4.6 (I got a new board with manual voltage controls :)). Don't think my cooler could handle 1.35v though.


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    #36
    Serephucus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭Serephucus


    I'm game-stable at around those settings, but I need closer to 1.3 to get everything IBT/Prime stable.


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    #37
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Serephucus wrote: »
    I'm game-stable at around those settings, but I need closer to 1.3 to get everything IBT/Prime stable.

    That's less than the previous one you quoted. Do you mean 1.4?


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    #38
    Serephucus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭Serephucus


    No... I need around 1.3 for 4.6, and 1.35 for 4.7.


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    #39
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Serephucus wrote: »
    No... I need around 1.3 for 4.6, and 1.35 for 4.7.

    Sorry, misunderstood.


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    #40
    Serephucus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,180 ✭✭✭Serephucus


    No worries. :)


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    #41
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    Alright I guess I'll just find out about overclocking at another time


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    #42
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    Will I need more than 500W to overclock my CPU to 4.5GHZ, will it be ok temperature wise and what's the silicon lottery ? Will I have to do anything to my GPU if I overclock my CPU?


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    #43
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    The 450w I linked has enough power for overclocking both the cpu and gpu. The 3570k at stock only uses around 77w. Overclocked maybe 100-120w

    The card would use around 200w overclocked.

    About 50w max for the rest of the system.

    I'd say full load around 300w-350w for normal gaming use. It might peak nearer to 400w rarely.

    You could go to the 500w version of the same psu if you wanted a bit more headroom. It's only about €4 more.

    The silicon lottery is basically how good of a processor did you get. All processors will have minute differences in their quality that will effect how high they can be clocked at what voltages. Some people need higher voltages to get the same clocks as others.

    You don't have to do anything to your gpu but it can also be overclocked. Gpu overclocking is actually easier than cpu overclocking.


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    #44
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    MisterMioster wrote: »
    Will I need more than 500W to overclock my CPU to 4.5GHZ, will it be ok temperature wise and what's the silicon lottery ? Will I have to do anything to my GPU if I overclock my CPU?

    No 500 watt is perfect for an overclocked CPU and a single GPU
    4.5 is the most likley max overclock for you.
    Just about every CPU will fit into the 4.2 - 4.8 GHZ range.
    A bit of luck is involved, on air cooling you would be unlucky to only reach 4.2 but very lucky to reach 4.8 so something in between is the most common result
    No you can leave the GPU as is but can also overclock the GPU if you want even more performance in games but it's optional.


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    #45
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    You can overclock the GPU too? o.O
    And thanks but for the info but is there any tutorials on how to overclock the GPU or CPU? I should have the pc in my Wednesday if it ships on Monday.


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    #46
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Yeah, you can get very good performance upgrades depending on your card. 30%+ is not unusual.

    Linus is your man if you want to learn how to do anything pc hardware related.

    Have you ordered yet?







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    #47
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    Not yet will be tomorrow or Monday. It'll take some time to find out the best way and specs to overclock it at but I suppose ill get it done.


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    #48
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    I don't know if ill do it because even after watching the videos I fear I will mess it up because I don't have a clue what voltage or multiplier settings I will use but I really want that +30% boost for gaming.. Im a newbie in terms of overclocking so bear with me..

    Does OCing decrease CPU and GPU life? What did you guys do when OCing and did you get a guide?


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    #49
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    MisterMioster wrote: »
    I don't know if ill do it because even after watching the videos I fear I will mess it up because I don't have a clue what voltage or multiplier settings I will use but I really want that +30% boost for gaming.. Im a newbie in terms of overclocking so bear with me..

    Does OCing decrease CPU and GPU life? What did you guys do when OCing and did you get a guide?

    To be fair, I think a 30% boost is pushing it. 20% plus is a fairer estimate, unless you have a good idea of what you're doing.

    I was clueless when it came to overclocking a few months ago, but I just read a crap-load of articles online, asked questions here, and now I have a reasonbale grasp of how it works, how to do it, etc. It seems easy now that I understand it, but I appreciate it is difficult to comprehend all the information when learning about it for the first time.

    It's perfectly safe if you know what you're doing. Yes, increasing the voltages degrades your chip more than it normally would. But computer chipss, especially cpus are manufactured with very generous tolerances.

    We're talking a difference of 6 years vs 10 years or something. Not even that. Unless you go crazy with changing the voltage you'll be fine.


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    #50
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Even 10 years is probably an extremely conservative estimate of average CPU lifespan. There is not much data because people simply don't keep them long enough, but if kept running in near optimal conditions, i'd say its at least double if not treble that time.

    I don't think I have ever come across a CPU that simply died of old age, if they do fail they tend to get fried by another component failures or user error.

    Overclocking definately shortens the expected life of a CPU, but done carefully, even this shortened one would still be far in excess of its useful lifespan.


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    #51
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    Well it's 133% of the normal clock rate (3.4GHZ--->4.5GHZ) so I just assumed 30% of performance I guess. I just need some basic instructions on how to overclock an i5 and recommendations on what voltage to use etc..

    Aren't CPUs with a 'K' at the end such as the i5 3570K meant to be overclocked so they would degrade quicker ?


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    #52
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    MisterMioster wrote: »
    Well it's 133% of the normal clock rate (3.4GHZ--->4.5GHZ) so I just assumed 30% of performance I guess. I just need some basic instructions on how to overclock an i5 and recommendations on what voltage to use etc..

    Aren't CPUs with a 'K' at the end such as the i5 3570K meant to be overclocked so they would degrade quicker ?

    True. But they do "Turbo Boost" (automatic overclocking) which has 2 cores at 3.8 and 2 at 3.6 provided heat isn't an issue (and it never is on a desktop, so you do have a bit more than 3.4 for sure).

    But yeah. Going up to 4.4 - 4.6 is definitely a big boost. Your question doesn't make much sense to me. Yes K processors should be overclocked (otherwise you're liteally wasting money). Yes, overclocking tends to degrade components quicker, but this is negligible for the most part.


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    #53
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    It was a typo I meant to say "so they wouldn't degrade quicker?"


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    #54
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    The K just means the multiplier is unlocked.

    Excessive voltage is really the only part you can do wrong which could cause damage. So once you don't go crazy on voltage it's safe. You could make it temporarily unstable with other setting but it's easy to reset to defaults and try again.

    For a 3570K on air I think you should try not to exceed 1.3 volts because of temperatures even though 1.4 is considered the safe limit you need expensive cooling solutions at that voltage. As for multiplier start at 42 and raise it by 1 until it's unstable then you know what your limit is.

    Keep an eye on temperature when testing, it should not exceed 80C

    I would not recommend using any auto overclock software as they tend to use more voltage than necessary.


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    #55
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    Anyway thanks, a while ago blood said that he overclocked two i5 3570Ks to 4.5 and he maxes at 65 degrees.

    Blood when you can find out could you tell me what voltage you got them set to? Im thinking 1.25 might do it? Ill test around with it but I'd just like something to try and aim at. so ill get the overclockable versions, set up my pc normally and then overclock :p thanks !

    Ill tell you guys how it goes when it's made and I might change the 21.5" to a 24" :p


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    #56
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    MisterMioster wrote: »
    It was a typo I meant to say "so they wouldn't degrade quicker?"

    Not really extra voltage does made a CPU degrade quicker but not by much if you stay within safe limits. I don't know of any extensive tests on this but you can expect an overclocked CPU to last well over 10 years. The CPU will be worthless long before it dies from overclocking.


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    #57
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    MisterMioster wrote: »
    Anyway thanks, a while ago blood said that he overclocked two i5 3570Ks to 4.5 and he maxes at 65 degrees.

    Blood when you can find out could you tell me what voltage you got them set to? Im thinking 1.25 might do it? Ill test around with it but I'd just like something to try and aim at. so ill get the overclockable versions, set up my pc normally and then overclock :p thanks !

    Ill tell you guys how it goes when it's made and I might change the 21.5" to a 24" :p

    3 at this stage. 1.25v at 4.5ghz on the 3 of them I think. Maybe slight difference, I can't remember. Those temps were with large ftt's in prime95. IntelBurnTest is more around 80-85c.

    Gaming I have yet to see the temps go above 60-65 recording max temps with hwmonitor. You will rarely ever be at 4 cores with 100% utilisation. P95 testing is more consistent with gaming temps.


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    #58
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    How will I test for stability? Ill be playing games like Arma II and III, Battlefield 4 and Battlefield 3. I've heard some testers aren't stressful enough to imitate a GPU/CPU intensive game so which one should I use and how will I know if its stable ?


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    #59
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    MisterMioster wrote: »
    How will I test for stability? Ill be playing games like Arma II and III, Battlefield 4 and Battlefield 3. I've heard some testers aren't stressful enough to imitate a GPU/CPU intensive game so which one should I use and how will I know if its stable ?

    First do the GPU and CPU overclock individually.

    Use prime 95 to test the cpu. When I have my final CPU overclock done I run prime 95 on small FFTs for about 8 hours just to be fairly sure it's stable.

    For the the GPU once it's not overheating and there are no artifacts in games it's good.

    Finally just have a long gaming session with real temp and msi afterburner running. These programs will record the max temp while you play. If temperatures are still good then you're done.


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    #60
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    Alright I'll try 4.5GHZ at 1.25 and use prime 95 but how will I tell if its stable or not? I will use MSI afterburner and real temp to check it isn't too hot but I don't know how to check how stable it is? Will this http://www.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp;jsessionid=844F222F443A2E84B22FED810D7C5358.www2?aid=59387&agid=669&jsessionid=844F222F443A2E84B22FED810D7C5358 be cabable of cooling the CPU at 4.5GHZ and 1.25?

    I now know how to change the voltage and multiplier etc but still have no clue how to see if it's stable or not..


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    #61
    MisterMioster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 86 ✭✭MisterMioster


    At the end of the 8 hour small FFT will it say if its stable or not?


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