Do you agree with The All Homophobes are secretly Gay theory

kneemos

Seachmall wrote: »

Everybody has an increase in arousal when shown gay porn, homophobes and nonhomophobes alike. Regardless if there is a woman present we recognise the situation is sexual and respond to it. There doesn't need to be a female present, nor does there need to be attraction, to cause arousal*. And that's the point, homophobes being more aroused does not necessarily indicate attraction. There are loads of other factors at play, some of which could be tied to aggressiveness or feelings of superiority or dominance.


*When I say arousal I don't mean a full erection, just an increase of blood flow.

But why in a group would only those with a homophobic attitude show an increased attraction?

1ZRed

Terry1985 wrote: »

Rubbish theory.
People get labeled a homophobe even if they accept the idea/freedom to be homosexual but don't agree that we should redefine the traditional idea of marriage or give them children.

How does that have anything to do with what I posted about above? But ok, we won't call you a homophobe, would bigot be more fitting?

Seachmall

kneemos wrote: »

But why in a group would only those with a homophobic attitude show an increased attraction?

My point is arousal is not exclusively attributable to attraction. Non-homophobic straight men also show an increase in arousal, just not as much, but that doesn't mean non-homophobic straight men are attracted to other men.

Without fully understanding what psychological reasons cause people to be homophobic and correlating them with all the possible causes of arousal we can't conclude that it must be because homophobic men are more likely to be gay.

EuskalHerria

Terry1985 wrote: »

Rubbish theory.
People get labeled a homophobe even if............
don't agree that we should redefine the traditional idea of marriage or give them children.

I would constitute the refusal of a couple to be allowed to adopt children on the sole basis of them being a same sex couple as discrimination. I'm not sure if that's under the banner of homophobia but certainly discrimination.

What sort of society do we live in that countless unfit mothers and couples bring children into this world on a daily basis and it's not an issue. However a suitable same sex couple seems to become a massive issue that calls for debate.

JohnMc1

dd972 wrote: »

Whilst no doubt there are Homophobes who are Gay, I've always thought that this theory is overtly simplistic and smacks of pseudo Freudian pop psychology, just because an individual has an ignorance and fear of the other in society, it's doesn't necessarily mean that they are the other.

Unless you can scan people's thoughts, minds and bodies how would you really know their motivations and impulses to behave in any manner.

Using that logic we could easily say that militant Atheists like Bill Maher are secretly religious.

Three Seasons

Does this theory apply to pedophobes?

Arcsin

Terry1985 wrote: »

Rubbish theory.
People get labeled a homophobe even if they accept the idea/freedom to be homosexual but don't agree that we should redefine the traditional idea of marriage or give them children.

It's not hard to get labelled a homophobe these days.

People seem to think being tolerant means liking and agreeing with everything every subgroup does.

Being tolerant is not liking or agreeing with something but tolerating it anyway. You can't expect the entire population to love every aspect of every minority group. If they did they wouldn't have to tolerate anything.

The best you can hope for is for everyone to be left the fcuk alone to live their lives as long as they aren't harming anyone else.

Some people will never be comfortable with the idea of homosexuality, or transgender individuals, or living next door to immigrants for whatever reason.

But if they don't bother any of these people and treat them decently then what difference does it make?

kneemos

Seachmall wrote: »

My point is arousal is not exclusively attributable to attraction. Non-homophobic straight men also show an increase in arousal, just not as much, but that doesn't mean non-homophobic straight men are attracted to other men.

Without fully understanding what psychological reasons cause people to be homophobic and correlating them with all the possible causes of arousal we can't conclude that it must be because homophobic men are more likely to be gay.

There's all sorts of reasons for arousel but these studies appear to have discovered a common denominator.

kylith

Seachmall wrote: »

My point is arousal is not exclusively attributable to attraction. Non-homophobic straight men also show an increase in arousal, just not as much, but that doesn't mean non-homophobic straight men are attracted to other men.

Wasn't the point that homophobic men showed more arousal than non homophobic men?

Seachmall wrote: »

Without fully understanding what psychological reasons cause people to be homophobic and correlating them with all the possible causes of arousal we can't conclude that it must be because homophobic men are more likely to be gay.

Oh, I agree. You can't say that just because someone is gay just because they're homophobic, but it does raise some interesting questions about sexuality and how you feel about yourself.

VinLieger

Terry1985 wrote: »

Rubbish theory.
People get labeled a homophobe even if they accept the idea/freedom to be homosexual but don't agree that we should redefine the traditional idea of marriage or give them children.

So discriminating against them because they are homosexual isnt being homphobic? News to me. I guess not giving women the right to vote wasnt sexist either?

1ZRed

Seachmall wrote: »

My point is arousal is not exclusively attributable to attraction.

There very well could be factors at play that cause homophobic men to become more aroused that do not include attraction.

Without fully understanding what psychological reasons cause people to be homophobic and correlating them with all the possible causes of arousal we can't conclude that it must be because homophobic men are more likely to be gay.

In my experience I have always found arousal to attribute to attraction, I think trying to find other reasons other than the biggest which is actually attraction is trying to grasp at straws. I'm sure there are other factors involved but attraction is the biggest. You can say experiencing any sort of arousal when watching gay porn is not sexual but it predominantly is.

There is evidence that homophobic men are more likely to have some degree of attraction to other men, without being full on gay. Even in real life and my own experiences I've met a very large number of gay/bi men who did have some degree of homophobia who were in fact attracted to other men.

I don't think you can play off men getting aroused by gay porn by saying it could only be a dominance or power thing so easily, it's two men having sex, they should have no interest in dominating them if they are straight.
And as said above, if it was just the homophobic men who are getting aroused and not the other group of men wouldn't that give more credit to the fact that there is a certain degree of sexual attraction there? It's proven time and time again that most very vocally homophobic men do have something to hide and over compensate for. I won't say all of them, but a large chunk of them seem to.

Seachmall

kneemos wrote: »

There's all sorts of reasons for arousel but these studies appear to have discovered a common denominator.

Yes, homophobia. But these studies don't investigate whether or not the cause of the arousal is attraction.

kylith wrote: »

Wasn't the point that homophobic men showed more arousal than non homophobic men?

Ya, that's what I said.

1ZRed wrote: »

In my experience I have always found arousal to attribute to attraction, I think trying to find other reasons other than the biggest which is actually attraction is trying to grasp at straws. I'm sure there are other factors involved but attraction is the biggest. You can say experiencing any sort of arousal when watching gay porn is not sexual but it predominantly is.

Arousal certainly is the biggest factor, sexual anticipation is also a big factor (and probably the reason why non-homophobic straight men also get aroused).

Here's a study that shows watching sexually explicit aggressive videos causes lower arousal rates than non-sexually explicit aggressive videos.

This would suggest that feelings of aggression alone can cause arousal.

I don't think you can play off men getting aroused by gay porn by saying it could only be a dominance or power thing so easily, it's two men having sex, they should have no interest in dominating them if they are straight.

I'm not playing it off, nor am I suggesting it never occurs (of course it does) I'm simply saying there are valid criticisms of using those studies as demonstrable proof that homophobes are more likely to be gay.

Those studies deal with arousal, which is not synonymous with attraction.

And as said above, if it was just the homophobic men who are getting aroused and not the other group of men wouldn't that give more credit to the fact that there is a certain degree of sexual attraction there? It's proven time and time again that most very vocally homophobic men do have something to hide and over compensate for. I won't say all of them, but a large chunk of them seem to.

I'd say the most vocal homophobes tend to be homophobes because of their politics, religion or upbringing and vocal because of their insecurities (i.e. being gay).

hatrickpatrick

Nah most are just gobsh!tes, but it definitely seems to be true for a lot of very vocal ones, particularly US conservatives - the number of scandals involving social con Republicans is just hilarious.

Annasopra

dd972 wrote: »

Whilst no doubt there are Homophobes who are Gay, I've always thought that this theory is overtly simplistic and smacks of pseudo Freudian pop psychology, just because an individual has an ignorance and fear of the other in society, it's doesn't necessarily mean that they are the other.

Unless you can scan people's thoughts, minds and bodies how would you really know their motivations and impulses to behave in any manner.

What theory?

darced

This post has been deleted.

junior_apollo

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes

mitosis

Thinly-veiled "I am a gay homophobe" thread.

:pac: