HEC SF: ASM Clermont Auvergne vs Munster Rugby, 27 April 5pm SS1 *Warning post 149*

irishbucsfan

trouttrout wrote: »

btw, well done Keith Earls on a fantastic try saving tackle in the first five minutes. Think it's worth highlighting considering you might think he was some sort of turnstile by reading about his defense on this forum!

Someone said that his defense against big wingers was suspect before the game. I really wanted to ask for an example....

But I am starting to get tired of expecting people to do anything but complain about him.

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Someone said that his defense against big wingers was suspect before the game. I really wanted to ask for an example....

But I am starting to get tired of expecting people to do anything but complain about him.

He was the one who missed the tackle on Nalaga for the first try... Yes he was unfit and Bowe was caught out in a similar way in Twickenham but because he gets so much OTT criticism people tend to go too far the other way and excuse/ignore his mistakes

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Someone said that his defense against big wingers was suspect before the game. I really wanted to ask for an example....

But I am starting to get tired of expecting people to do anything but complain about him.

It was me and I gave an example in the post of Malzieu running through him specifically for a try when playing Clermont. Gear hammered through him last year. He has had a tendency to go too high on bigger opposition. He's a great player but it has been a flaw that has reared its head on several occasions.

Chabals Beard

Munster would win if John Hayes was playing...

trouttrout wrote: »

btw, well done Keith Earls on a fantastic try saving tackle in the first five minutes. Think it's worth highlighting considering you might think he was some sort of turnstile by reading about his defense on this forum!

Would love to see that again , it was a massive colision

JRant

There must be a few sore bodies today after that terrific effort from the Munster lads.
Yesterday we seen all that is good about Munster, unreal shift from quite a few of them.
However the same problems keeps rearing there head unfortunately. A lack of precision really cost them in the last 10/15 mins of the game. Silly knock-ons and poor decision making.

Neither Earls or POC looked anywhere near fit.

Today we seen how good Murray is in defense but my goodness he doesn't half know how to butcher chances in the red-zone.

ROG had his best game in a while but I would have liked to see Keatley brought on for the last 10 just to bring more of a running threat, Clermont had the yips at that stage.

Still can't firgure out why Clemont didn't just keep it tight, their pack was immense for most of the game and were making huge yardage when they did. All their moves broke down when the slung it wide.

Still a performance like that will stand to the younger lads going forward.

Anatidaephobia

thomond2006 wrote: »

ESPN stats here: http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/167682.html

Clermont marginally superior in most of the team stats.

Both fullbacks made the most metres for their respective sides. Fofana beat the most defenders (3). Another interesting stat is that Sivivatu made 11 passes while Nalaga made none.

Of the forwards, both Kayser and O'Donnell made 31 metres. POC was Munster's top tackler (11) but missed two, while Botha made 10 tackles and missed none. Kayser and Bardy share the top tackler position for Clermont with 9 tackles and none missed.

Those stats really show the importance of Murray to us. 8 tackles made and none missed is impressive for a scrum half. Para is one of the best 9's around, but 4 tackles made and 3 missed is pretty awful.

danthefan

Munster

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

Those stats really show the importance of Murray to us. 8 tackles made and none missed is impressive for a scrum half. Para is one of the best 9's around, but 4 tackles made and 3 missed is pretty awful.

This isn't a comment on Murray before anyone gets upset but there are things like passing and decision making which I'd value much higher than the amount of tackles made in a SH.

Kev_2012

Tox56 wrote: »

He was the one who missed the tackle on Nalaga for the first try... Yes he was unfit and Bowe was caught out in a similar way in Twickenham but because he gets so much OTT criticism people tend to go too far the other way and excuse/ignore his mistakes

Just to point out, no having a go, but, he was shifting out and Nalaga attacked his inside shoulder and there was no man inside to tackle him. It was a very difficult tackle to make and I wouldn't blame him for any part of that. Not a single player fanned out inside to cover. You're supposed to trust the inside man to make that tackle.

Buer

danthefan wrote: »

This isn't a comment on Murray before anyone gets upset but there are things like passing and decision making which I'd value much higher than the amount of tackles made in a SH.

True enough. I'd have liked to see him sharper at the basics although the tackling scrum half is a massive boost to have in a side. The two mistakes where he passed to touch beyond Zebo and then messed up the blindside break could have been the winning of the game.

From watching it at the end, I wonder did the occasion get to a couple of the lads. I recall an interview, I think it might have been with Dominic Crotty, about the 2000 final that they were just emotionally drained in that match and weren't mentally right because they were so keyed up for the game. A lot of passionate speeches the night before, tears and firing themselves up left them flat the next day. The way some of the Munster players looked at the end suggested they were absolutely spent emotionally too. Guys like Zebo and Coughlan were in tears afterwards. Neither had their best days and Zebo made one or two errors he normally wouldn't at all. Murray would have nailed those little half breaks and passes in his sleep usually.

ROG has had enough of these days to have ice in his veins when needed but some lads wouldn't have had such experiences before. It will absolutely stand to them for next time but it was something that struck me at the end given how many of the players appeared absolutely devastated so openly.

thomond2006

I really hope Earls is ok and that he was only winded coming off. The last thing that guy needs is another injury, I'd nearly look at giving him the summer off.

danthefan

Munster

Buer wrote: »

True enough. I'd have liked to see him sharper at the basics although the tackling scrum half is a massive boost to have in a side. The two mistakes where he passed to touch beyond Zebo and then messed up the blindside break could have been the winning of the game.

I said on PR after that blindside break that I thought he could have just thrown the game away.

And I'll tell you who I will comment on: TOL.

By jaysus that chap could make a tackle, could knock you into next week if he felt like it. But after that awful leg break in 2009 he just was never able to recapture anything close to his pre-injury form. It completely crippled Ireland in attack. He'd make it to a breakdown, take an age to decide what to do, and then pick up the ball, take a few steps and throw a very mediocre pass that may or may not have gone where it was supposed to. His defence didn't nearly make up for the rest of his game.

thomond2006 wrote: »

I really hope Earls is ok and that he was only winded coming off. The last thing that guy needs is another injury, I'd nearly look at giving him the summer off.

If he is injured (and hopefully he isn't obviously) it's about the best possible time for it.

Chabals Beard

Munster would win if John Hayes was playing...

danthefan wrote: »

I said on PR after that blindside break that I thought he could have just thrown the game away.

And I'll tell you who I will comment on: TOL.

By jaysus that chap could make a tackle, could knock you into next week if he felt like it. But after that awful leg break in 2009 he just was never able to recapture anything close to his pre-injury form. It completely crippled Ireland in attack. He'd make it to a breakdown, take an age to decide what to do, and then pick up the ball, take a few steps and throw a very mediocre pass that may or may not have gone where it was supposed to. His defence didn't nearly make up for the rest of his game.



If he is injured (and hopefully he isn't obviously) it's about the best possible time for it.

One thing about Murray when does realease the the pass they are sharp, quick and accurate. TOL passes were looping and he had to put his whole body behind them to get distance. Murray is a very good wristy passer.

davidpfitz

Chabals Beard wrote: »

One thing about Murray when does realease the the pass they are sharp, quick and accurate. TOL passes were looping and he had to put his whole body behind them to get distance. Murray is a very good wristy passer.

Didn't O'Leary have a long-standing wrist injury, or something? He had to generate the speed from only his arms, which meant a step and a slightly loopy pass.

JRant

Buer wrote: »

True enough. I'd have liked to see him sharper at the basics although the tackling scrum half is a massive boost to have in a side. The two mistakes where he passed to touch beyond Zebo and then messed up the blindside break could have been the winning of the game.

From watching it at the end, I wonder did the occasion get to a couple of the lads. I recall an interview, I think it might have been with Dominic Crotty, about the 2000 final that they were just emotionally drained in that match and weren't mentally right because they were so keyed up for the game. A lot of passionate speeches the night before, tears and firing themselves up left them flat the next day. The way some of the Munster players looked at the end suggested they were absolutely spent emotionally too. Guys like Zebo and Coughlan were in tears afterwards. Neither had their best days and Zebo made one or two errors he normally wouldn't at all. Murray would have nailed those little half breaks and passes in his sleep usually.

ROG has had enough of these days to have ice in his veins when needed but some lads wouldn't have had such experiences before. It will absolutely stand to them for next time but it was something that struck me at the end given how many of the players appeared absolutely devastated so openly.

At the end of the first half he blew a great chance when on the Clermont try line. It looked like they had numbers out wide but made a dogs dinner of it. I sure this will improve with age and experience as he's still a young chap.

JRant

davidpfitz wrote: »

Didn't O'Leary have a long-standing wrist injury, or something? He had to generate the speed from only his arms, which meant a step and a slightly loopy pass.

An old hurling injury to his thumb left him with limited power in it. Really hurt his prospects as he just couldn't generate the power needed with his hands, hence that 'step'.

Rightwing

Gutted. But huge pride in that performance. What an occasion. We could so easily have won, but no doubt the better team won. Coughed up too many points early on, but must have held them scoreless for the last half hour or so.

Must say Clermont fans do make some noise, beats biarritz in San Seb. Pity they booing POC for his warm-up though, no need for that,he was def not fit.

Ardillaun

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Someone said that his defense against big wingers was suspect before the game. I really wanted to ask for an example....

But I am starting to get tired of expecting people to do anything but complain about him.

He had a great tackle on Fofana and played well overall. As noted above, Nalaga did go by him for the try very close to the line but the situation was dire by then. For Ireland, I would like to see him as a winger rather than centre.

Ardillaun

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

Those stats really show the importance of Murray to us. 8 tackles made and none missed is impressive for a scrum half. Para is one of the best 9's around, but 4 tackles made and 3 missed is pretty awful.

Murray and O'Gara bested their opposite numbers. Without Murray, I think Munster would have been physically overwhelmed at an early stage.

Buer

Ardillaun wrote: »

Murray and O'Gara bested their opposite numbers. Without Murray, I think Munster would have been physically overwhelmed at an early stage.

I'd certainly say ROG bested James but Murray/Parra is a harder one. Neither had a great game, I thought. Murray made a few conspicuous errors that cost Munster. Parra, equally, made some idiotic decisions. The effort where he tried flinging the ball at TOD to get a penalty went down as the dumbest move of the match. Both lost good positions for their team more than once.

Chabals Beard

Munster would win if John Hayes was playing...

Someone should translate that Clermont forum, would love to see what they are saying.

shuffol

One thing that stood out for me from Parra and James was their adeptness at clearing their lines after a 5m lineout, time and again Parra's pass was inch perfect and James could receive and clear the ball in one movement. I wonder was it something they anticipated they'd have to do a lot of and expressly worked on in training.

Fireball07

Munster

shuffol wrote: »

One thing that stood out for me from Parra and James was their adeptness at clearing their lines after a 5m lineout, time and again Parra's pass was inch perfect and James could receive and clear the ball in one movement. I wonder was it something they anticipated they'd have to do a lot of and expressly worked on in training.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I was slightly annoyed with our closing down, because it seemed so effortless each time. Maybe it was just the quality of the pass though.

If we had even put him off once, that could have been the difference in winning/losing.

.ak

Not an excuse to re-hash the argument btw, just pointing out how good the Clermont's fan's sense of humour is.....

Rightwing

.ak wrote: »

Not an excuse to re-hash the argument btw, just pointing out how good the Clermont's fan's sense of humour is.....

They gave POC some booing, but in fairness he applauded them after the match and the Clermont team. Best atmosphere I've experienced.