Locked housemate out of house...

LegacyUser

I'll try and make this brief as I'm typing this with NO sleep.

Basically, I'm owner occupier. Last weekend I took in a lodger. Seemed like a nice girl. I made it clear in the ad and when we met that I need a non-smoker. I said I have very bad asthma, been hospitalized many, many times and even the lingering smell can trigger an attack. She said no problem, only has the odd one which I figured meant when she's out/drunk or something.

The minute she moved in it was clear that was a lie. Her stuff stinks to high heavens. She filled the house with the smell on day one and she even heard me having an attack.

All was fine for a few days, (after I told her it was not on and she apologied). Last night came home to an almighty smell in the house. Was up literally all night, have not slept yet, as I've been coughing and can't lie down. The window of her bedroom was open til 4am, was clearly trying to get rid of the smell.

Now she's gone to work and I've locked the porch door. She only has a key for the inside door. I'm just so angry, and in so much pain right now. I'll have to go to the GP again, get steroids.

I want to text her and say "Locks have been changed, come pick up your stuff tomorrow". She has an uncle near by she stayed with before.

Am I mad? How should I handle this? I can't risk this happening again tonight. She needs to go. Btw she paid deposit but not rent yet.

StillWaters

I don't think it's reasonable to lock her out. I think you need to give her notice to quit, a week should be sufficient.

xzanti

OP are you referring to third hand smoke or has she been actually smoking in the house?

If it's the latter then I think you are within your rights to complain, but if the smell is just from her and her belongings, then I think you are out of order.

LegacyUser

xzanti wrote: »

OP are you referring to third hand smoke or has she been actually smoking in the house?

If it's the latter then I think you are within your rights to complain, but if the smell is just from her and her belongings, then I think you are out of order.

Was definitely smoking in the house.

Dtp79

Was there a contract signed?

LegacyUser

Dtp79 wrote: »

Was there a contract signed?

No. Hadn't gotten around to it. She only just moved in a few days ago. She paid her deposit and then I didn't even see her again to get rent off her.

Rachiee

I think its unfair to lock her out. Give her a weeks notice explaining the situation is untenable. As shes a lodger she has very few rights but its immoral to lock someone out without giving them some time to find somewhere else.

tinkerbell

I think it's also immoral for somebody to move in with a person who has asthma and yet smoke in the house when the OP specifically said no smoking under any circumstances. OP, she's a lodger which means no rights. She created this problem, it's not your fault you've to turf her out now. Why should you have to put up with her smoking for one more week just to give her the consideration she has failed to show you in return? Smoking is very dangerous for people with asthma. So OP, tell her to pick up her stuff and leave.

Oh and I'd deduct the cost of going to the GP from her deposit too. You wouldn't be going only for her.

LegacyUser

tinkerbell wrote: »

I think it's also immoral for somebody to move in with a person who has asthma and yet smoke in the house when the OP specifically said no smoking under any circumstances. OP, she's a lodger which means no rights. She created this problem, it's not your fault you've to turf her out now. Why should you have to put up with her smoking for one more week just to give her the consideration she has failed to show you in return? Smoking is very dangerous for people with asthma. So OP, tell her to pick up her stuff and leave.

Oh and I'd deduct the cost of going to the GP from her deposit too. You wouldn't be going only for her.

Thanks for the support! Asthma gets very little sympathy generally as so many people have it, but the vast majority have a very mild case of it. If this was a story about a person with a peanut allergy and the lodger kept bringing peanuts into the house, knowing the havoc it can cause, it'd be a different story.

My fear is that with a week's notice she knows she has nothing to lose. Hasn't paid rent and wouldn't be getting deposit back (as at that stage she's have lived there for free for two weeks, did lots of clothes washing, heating using etc.) and so would just keep smoking away.

Going to stay at my parents tonight as I the house stinks.

xzanti

badhousemate wrote: »

Was definitely smoking in the house.

I would give marching orders.. but I think you should do it the correct way.. i.e notice.

The_Conductor

Dtp79 wrote: »

Was there a contract signed?

Once you're living with the owner in their home, you are living with them 'under licence' and not entitled to a lease or a contract. It is normal for basic groundrules to be spelt out, such as 'No smoking'. The OP has the right to ask the person to leave, immediately, without explanation, at any time.

If I were in the OP's situation I would ring the person immediately, advise them exactly as she has on here- that she has been unable to sleep and is having another attack, due to the OP smoking.

It is not on, really it isn't.

I wouldn't threaten to deduct the cost of the doctor's visit from the deposit- I would however ask her to leave immediately. A week's notice bedamned- she could kill the OP in the next week smoking like a chimney safe in the knowledge of no further reprecussions, if you give her a week's notice. She needs to be told to leave, immediately.

OP- you know what you have to do.

Btw- we have an accommodation and property forum- which may be able to assist with any questions you might have.

Shane

username123

smccarrick wrote: »

Once you're living with the owner in their home, you are living with them 'under licence' and not entitled to a lease or a contract. It is normal for basic groundrules to be spelt out, such as 'No smoking'. The OP has the right to ask the person to leave, immediately, without explanation, at any time.

+1

When you say she filled the house with the smell on day 1, was she smoking in the house from day 1?

Either way, if she is not a suitable tenant for you - then out. It is entirely inconsiderate for someone to smoke in a non smoking house - regardless of asthmatics in the property.

Forget about locking the door - youre not her parent to be punishing her, simply phone her immediately and tell her that you want her out with immediate effect because of the smoking. Brook no argument, you can be sure she will apologise and say it wont happen again - it shouldnt have happened in the first place.

But may I also say, if you have such sensitive asthma that even the smell of smoke is triggering an attack, you need to be far more discerning about who you take in as a lodger. You have a responsibility here too, if someone tells you they have "the odd one" any reasonable person knows that that means - they smoke. Smokers will always claim to smoke less than they do. You need someone who says "I dont smoke, I hate it". I presume you have a similar issue with scented candles etc... so you really need to be clear about this with people if they are to be moving into your home.

Merkin

Phone her up and tell her you want her and all her stinking belongings out of your house by this evening.I'd also take what you are owed for rent PLUS doctor's fees out of her deposit.You're best to get shot asap!

Neyite

Op, by locking the house and going to your parents you are withholding her belongings and that is wrong. I have every sympathy for you, and believe you are right to ask her to go immediately, but if you are too ill to be there, can you ask your dad/a friend to be there when she returns to give her back her things and her deposit.

They can remind her she is lucky to be getting her full deposit back, that she could have hospitalised you, and she must leave immediately.

I do agree that you should choose your next lodger much more carefully. Lots of smokers minimise their habit and I say that as an ex smoker. Even scented candles as Username says or any other triggers such as incense, air fresheners etc need to be clearly spelled out as strictly forbidden. Using the peanut analogy is a good one.

I hope you feel better soon OP.

ted1

Call he and kick her out now.

bbbbb

I think the fact that there is a serious health issue in question excuses your actions, otherwise I would say it was unreasonable.
either way it may still be illegal

kneeler

O/P you should keep her locked out. You are not doing anything illegal. She has breached her contract fundamentally, entitling you to repudiate. You should contact her at work and tell her that she should organise a bed for tonight elsewhere. Ask her if she wants her belongings delivered to her work place or else give you a time when she will collect them. I would give back all money. Just be rid of her.

While I do think you need to get rid of her ASAP, I don't think it's fair to put someone in a position where they come home to find themselves locked out in the cold. You need to warn her of what's happening, that you need her to move out immediately and that she needs to collect her stuff.

Your goal is totally fair (i.e. throwing her out), but in my opinion your means could be just as effective by telling her she's out rather than leaving her to find out when she tries to get in in the evening.

NakedNNettles

This person is pusing the boundaries and taking advantage of your goodwill. You don't owe them anything in life so save yourself the trouble and stress.

You have two choices, boot her out now and be done with it or...
...give her notice which will end up dragging to the inevitable stressful conclusion.

Sometimes you have to do not so nice things to make your way in the world, that's life. Look after your health and sanity because that is number 1.

The_Conductor

bbbbb wrote: »

either way it may still be illegal

Wrong.
This is not a landlord/tenant situation.
When you choose to live with the owner of a property you have no rights as a tenant would have. To suggest otherwise is misleading in the extreme, and totally inaccurate. You are not a tenant. You have no rights. Tenancy law, in particular the 2004 Fixed Tenancy Act, does not apply. If you want rights, you have to rent the property either separately or with third parties, none of whom should be the owner of the property. The OP is well within her rights to ask the person to leave- without giving them any reason, never mind the totally valid issue, that the person is causing them significant detrimental ill health.

There is no case or issue with it being illegal to ask them to leave- they are staying with the owner, under licence, and have no tenancy rights whatsoever.

LegacyUser

smccarrick wrote: »

Wrong.
This is not a landlord/tenant situation.
When you choose to live with the owner of a property you have no rights as a tenant would have. To suggest otherwise is misleading in the extreme, and totally inaccurate. You are not a tenant. You have no rights. Tenancy law, in particular the 2004 Fixed Tenancy Act, does not apply. If you want rights, you have to rent the property either separately or with third parties, none of whom should be the owner of the property. The OP is well within her rights to ask the person to leave- without giving them any reason, never mind the totally valid issue, that the person is causing them significant detrimental ill health.

There is no case or issue with it being illegal to ask them to leave- they are staying with the owner, under licence, and have no tenancy rights whatsoever.

Thank you!! I really needed some words of support. And thanks to everyone else.

She's finished work now at 6 so lets see what happens. I told her to leave via text as she was working. Said tonight or tomorrow morning. Can't take another night of that so I've a friends place I will stay in if she smokes.

Thanks again!

Miaireland

You are doing the right thing. Let us know how you are getting on.

LegacyUser

And she's moving! We agreed to go halves on the deposit (as she didn't pay any rent and used washing machine every day).

I'm staying at my parents tonight and will thoroughly wash the place tomorrow. I agree with everyone, I need to be more careful with who I pick. I completely accept my part of the blame.

I confronted her this evening. I asked if she got my text, in a calm friendly voice. She suddenly went defensive saying "I didn't get any text from you, you can check my phone".
Was like, wha? And then I asked if she'd been smoking in the house. She said no, but that she did have two 'out the window'. Which means the window was open, not that any part of her was outside the window.

Thanks again boardsies!

Merkin

Good.

Listen, I'm not being funny but as an ex 30-a-day committed smoker, anyone who says they 'kinda' smoke...they smoke! It's like someone saying they're kinda pregnant.. you are or you are not.Choose more wisely in future.

RoisinDove

She sounds like a right selfish cow - you're well rid! I can never get over how deluded some smokers are about their habit. I think because they can't smell it (because they're used to it), they really believe you can't either. Don't be afraid to be forceful next time - put it in the ad that smoking will not be tolerated and reiterate it to the new flatmate. Just try to find someone who hates smoking and has never smoked - plenty of them around. In my experience, smokers will always try to have sneaky fags indoors thinking nobody will notice.

bbbbb

Glad to hear it's all sorted.

smccarrick wrote: »

Wrong.
This is not a landlord/tenant situation.
When you choose to live with the owner of a property you have no rights as a tenant would have. To suggest otherwise is misleading in the extreme, and totally inaccurate. You are not a tenant. You have no rights. Tenancy law, in particular the 2004 Fixed Tenancy Act, does not apply. If you want rights, you have to rent the property either separately or with third parties, none of whom should be the owner of the property. The OP is well within her rights to ask the person to leave- without giving them any reason, never mind the totally valid issue, that the person is causing them significant detrimental ill health.

There is no case or issue with it being illegal to ask them to leave- they are staying with the owner, under licence, and have no tenancy rights whatsoever.

It is correct to say the Residential Tenancies Act does not apply, that does not imply it is not illegal.
However citizens information gives no info on what is "reasonable notice"
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html
And threshold don't seem to cover rent a room...

The_Conductor

bbbbb wrote: »

Glad to hear it's all sorted.



It is correct to say the Residential Tenancies Act does not apply, that does not imply it is not illegal.
However citizens information gives no info on what is "reasonable notice"
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/rent_a_room_scheme.html
And threshold don't seem to cover rent a room...

If you are insistent on implying that asking the person to leave immediately, is possibly illegal, please supply links detailing how this applies. I've gone through literally thousands of cases over the past 8 years- and am not aware of a single case that supports your hypothesis.

The law governing landlord tenant grievances is the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act. Nothing on the Citizens Advice Bureau website, or Threshold, is legally binding. In any event, they neither offer any guidance whatsoever as to what constitutes reasonable notice. Immediate notice to vacate a tenancy is provided for in the Act- which while it does not cover this situation, does give you an indication of circumstances considered legitimate for the immediate vacation of a lease (which once again- does not exist here). The OP's situation is such that she might legally have a case (admittedly a civil case) against the roommate- on the basis of her lying about her smoking and how it affected the OP.

If anyone has a legitimate case, it is the original poster on this thread- and most certainly not the person who is being asked to leave immediately.

The reason for the lack of law in this area, is the nature of the licence agreement provided for, and the fact that there is no legal contract or lease between the two parties. Once the owner of the property asks her roommate to leave, the person is considered to be legally trespassing, if he/she stays any longer than agreed with the owner. The law on trespass is clearly defined.

If you want to argue this- take it to the legal forum- this really is not an appropriate venue. I can only speak from my own experiences of the last 8 years (and yes, we have similar queries in the Accommodation and Property forum, if you care to check).

ABajaninCork

RoisinDove wrote: »

She sounds like a right selfish cow - you're well rid! I can never get over how deluded some smokers are about their habit. I think because they can't smell it (because they're used to it), they really believe you can't either. Don't be afraid to be forceful next time - put it in the ad that smoking will not be tolerated and reiterate it to the new flatmate. Just try to find someone who hates smoking and has never smoked - plenty of them around. In my experience, smokers will always try to have sneaky fags indoors thinking nobody will notice.

There's some sweeping generalisations here. I smoke. I do not smoke indoors EVER!! Not least because my husband doesn't smoke, and funnily enough, I don't like the smell of smoke in the house. I don't smoke in people's houses either - whether they mind or not.

FWIW, I think the OP's done the right thing. If there's no smoking allowed in the house, then that's that. Your house, your rules.

djimi

true-or-false wrote: »

While I do think you need to get rid of her ASAP, I don't think it's fair to put someone in a position where they come home to find themselves locked out in the cold. You need to warn her of what's happening, that you need her to move out immediately and that she needs to collect her stuff.

Your goal is totally fair (i.e. throwing her out), but in my opinion your means could be just as effective by telling her she's out rather than leaving her to find out when she tries to get in in the evening.

I dont really understand those who are saying its not fair to kick her out immediately. She is a lodger; she is effectively a guest and has zero rights. She was told from the start of the serious health implecations to the OP of smoking, yet she chose to ignore it. If it was my house she would be getting a message saying that the locks have been changed and she can collect her belongings from outside the front of the house at her convenience. The health risk to the OP is severe enough that no other course of action is acceptable. If she ends up sleeping out in the cold then so be it; it would be entirely of her own making.

username123

djimi wrote: »

I dont really understand those who are saying its not fair to kick her out immediately. She is a lodger; she is effectively a guest and has zero rights. She was told from the start of the serious health implecations to the OP of smoking, yet she chose to ignore it. If it was my house she would be getting a message saying that the locks have been changed and she can collect her belongings from outside the front of the house at her convenience. The health risk to the OP is severe enough that no other course of action is acceptable. If she ends up sleeping out in the cold then so be it; it would be entirely of her own making.

There is no reason for the OP to behave like a <insert polite word for a$$hole>. There are always a number of ways to handle a situation, people can choose to be nice about something or not. What gain is there in not being decent about it? The person is still moving out, they are leaving the OP with half the deposit, and the OP accepts that she should have been more discerning regarding choice of housemate.

Sure, if the OP wants extra cost of lock changing, hassle, possibly a solicitors letter about throwing belongings on the street and bad feelings, then she could go ahead and do as you suggest. But I think most reasonable adults would agree that what she has decided to do is the right way to behave.

LegacyUser

Just as a final update - she left!

In the end I realised she really was crazy. She made up a story about my ex housemate calling over in the morning, turning on the heating and screaming about getting a solicitor because I still have his bike. I rang him and he said that wasn't true and he just didn't have time to get his bike when he called over to get post this morning.

I know it was all a lie from her as when I left she again turned on the heating as she moved out. I came back to a hot house again, so I'm guessing she made up the rest about the other housemate too.

All in all, I'm delighted this is all over. Will happily live alone. Thanks again everyone.