Why is rent allowance so generous?

Zamboni

wolfpawnat wrote: »

But how, if you go into education, often (not always) a lot of financial aid is taken away leaving them in a catch 22.

Would you like a fish, or would you like to know how to fish?

fussyonion

We're onto employment now and the thread says Rent Allowance.
Calm down dears, it's only an Internet forum....

belcampprisoner

because landlords run the dail

wolfpawnat

Zamboni wrote: »

Would you like a fish, or would you like to know how to fish?

Indeed, learning to fish is far more important, but how are people to live while being educated. Yes there is BTEA and other supports, but if you have a family to look after, can they take a further financial hit while you train. I do understand short time loss, long term gain, but when when you have very little, every minute cost can be the balance.

Anynama141

wolfpawnat wrote: »

But how, if you go into education, often (not always) a lot of financial aid is taken away leaving them in a catch 22.

If this is true - and I'm not sure how often it is - then those who can do this should do it and those caught in this Catch 22 should raise hell until it is addressed.

Anynama141

belcampprisoner wrote: »

because landlords run the dail

There's actually a lot of truth in that. Didn't Fianna Failure minister Frank Fahy own 40+ properties?

wolfpawnat

Anynama141 wrote: »

If this is true - and I'm not sure how often it is - then those who can do this should do it and those caught in this Catch 22 should raise hell until it is addressed.

How can they? we're all so busy fighting with one another in society it goes nowhere. I was told if I wanted to continue college after my child was born, I would receive very little help from the college with the creche costs and little assistance with the rent so I would have had to fork out for the majority of both with only Child Benefit and my college grant for the year, completely nonviable. Now I am lucky, in a year Daddy is finished college and he'll hopefully be able to get a job easily enough but for many, they have not got that guarantee.

RA criteria are becoming more and more stringent so I would not be surprised if in the near future they make it completely impossible for people to even get accommodation within city limits!

Anynama141

wolfpawnat wrote: »

How can they? we're all so busy fighting with one another in society it goes nowhere. I was told if I wanted to continue college after my child was born, I would receive very little help from the college with the creche costs and little assistance with the rent so I would have had to fork out for the majority of both with only Child Benefit and my college grant for the year, completely nonviable. Now I am lucky, in a year Daddy is finished college and he'll hopefully be able to get a job easily enough but for many, they have not got that guarantee.

RA criteria are becoming more and more stringent so I would not be surprised if in the near future they make it completely impossible for people to even get accommodation within city limits!

I don't want to make harsh judgements about individuals, but look at it the other way around: you get child benefit, you get a college grant, you get rent allowance (?) and you want more still?

Please don't take this as an attack on you personally - I wish you all the luck in the world, but perhaps we need to start appreciating all the help that we DO get from other people's taxes instead of complaining about the extra that we don't?

(and having said that, I also realise that you weren't really even complaining )

Gatling

There where other problem's will arise,
People on RA eventually get forced to move outside cities to further afield ,you will see rent's increase in these area's as demand for private accommodation surges along with school places for kids ,then you have locals up in arms because there forced to look to other places to live ,
No body will ever be happy

Treehousetim

Anynama141 wrote: »

I don't want to make harsh judgements about individuals, but look at it the other way around: you get child benefit, you get a college grant, you get rent allowance (?) and you want more still?

Please don't take this as an attack on you personally - I wish you all the luck in the world, but perhaps we need to start appreciating all the help that we DO get from other people's taxes instead of complaining about the extra that we don't?

(and having said that, I also realise that you weren't really even complaining )

Well said anynama. bizarre...

Anynama141

Gatling wrote: »

There where other problem's will arise,
People on RA eventually get forced to move outside cities to further afield ,you will see rent's increase in these area's as demand for private accommodation surges along with school places for kids ,then you have locals up in arms because there forced to look to other places to live ,
No body will ever be happy

You know that there are about 300,000 empty properties in the country? Sure, some of them are second homes, but the overwhelming majority of them just have nobody to live in them.

What on earth would cause rents to rise, short of importing 600,000 immigrants from somewhere?

Gatling

Anynama141 wrote: »

You know that there are about 300,000 empty properties in the country? Sure, some of them are second homes, but the overwhelming majority of them just have nobody to live in them.

What on earth would cause rents to rise, short of importing 600,000 immigrants from somewhere?

Haven't seen that number used got a link to the figures

You think there wouldn't be any rises but been its here were talking about its quite possible

Marsden

Anynama141 wrote: »

I don't want to make harsh judgements about individuals, but look at it the other way around: you get child benefit, you get a college grant, you get rent allowance (?) and you want more still?

Think you might be missing the point Anyama, the poster was responding to the get educated remark by saying it's not financially viable for someone unemployed. So telling people who can't afford to pay for education to get educated and then calling them ungrateful when they ask how to pay for it reeks of "let them eat cake".

Slutmonkey57b

Anynama141 wrote: »

Well no, it means that there's an oversupply of housing just about everywhere except the big urban centres, and even there we'd probably be seeing falling rents if the state wasn't falling over itself to prop up property prices.

You honestly think high rents are due to the rent allowance, and nothing else? What's causing high rents is demand. In the early days of the crash, lots of people left the country, or the workplace, and renters were the first ones to move out; net result, drop in rents. Now, as more people lose their homes, the number of renters has gone up, but only in urban centres where there are jobs. Therefore, rents rise in Dublin and fall elsewhere.

We return to a country where the only real opportunities are in the big smoke or abroad. That's not a good thing.

And final note: during all this rental price fluctuation, how much did the rent allowance change? It went down.

Anynama141

Marsden wrote: »

Think you might be missing the point Anyama, the poster was responding to the get educated remark by saying it's not financially viable for someone unemployed. So telling people who can't afford to pay for education to get educated and then calling them ungrateful when they ask how to pay for it reeks of "let them eat cake".

Firstly, I have my doubts as to what proportion of people have their benefits cut off because they want to return to education.

Secondly, I'm saying that people who do find themselves in that position should raise hell with the political class as it runs totally counter to any sensible government position on up-skilling.

Anynama141

Gatling wrote: »

Haven't seen that number used got a link to the figures

You think there wouldn't be any rises but been its here were talking about its quite possible

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/itll-take-us-43-years-to-fill-all-empty-houses-26863864.html

AN explosive report has claimed that Ireland has so many empty houses that it would take up to 43 years to fill them all.

Deutsche Bank figures suggest that there are 289,451 empty houses in Ireland, including almost 60,000 vacant holiday homes. This represents a vacancy rate of 15 per cent. As the Deutsche Bank map shows, the empty properties are highly concentrated around the Atlantic coast with Kerry and Donegal particularly badly afflicted.

This glut of empty homes will have a major impact on future property prices.

Anynama141

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

You honestly think high rents are due to the rent allowance, and nothing else?

Where did I say that?

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Now, as more people lose their homes, the number of renters has gone up, but only in urban centres where there are jobs. Therefore, rents rise in Dublin and fall elsewhere.

Do you have any idea how many people 'lost their homes' in the last year?

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

And final note: during all this rental price fluctuation, how much did the rent allowance change? It went down.

Indeed, and all over Ireland, with the exception of the cities, rents went down with them.

Marsden

Anynama141 wrote: »

Firstly, I have my doubts as to what proportion of people have their benefits cut off because they want to return to education.

Secondly, I'm saying that people who do find themselves in that position should raise hell with the political class as it runs totally counter to any sensible government position on up-skilling.

A one man stand against the government for more handouts wouldn't go down to well I'm afraid. Anyone that would actually stick their neck out to say I'm losing money to get educated would probably be told some thing like you get child benefit, you get a college grant, you get rent allowance (?) and you want more still?

Anynama141

Marsden wrote: »

A one man stand against the government for more handouts wouldn't go down to well I'm afraid.

Well, I suppose the best thing to do about it in that case is to moan about it on an anonymous forum to nobody.

Marsden wrote: »

Anyone that would actually stick their neck out to say I'm losing money to get educated would probably be told some thing like you get child benefit, you get a college grant, you get rent allowance (?) and you want more still?

Uh...the person who is getting a college grant IS getting educated courtesy of the taxpayer, no?

Treehousetim

Marsden wrote: »

A one man stand against the government for more handouts wouldn't go down to well I'm afraid. Anyone that would actually stick their neck out to say I'm losing money to get educated would probably be told some thing like you get child benefit, you get a college grant, you get rent allowance (?) and you want more still?

Having children is a choice. The poster would have known her college training would have been harder to complete. But sure put that on other people why not.

wolfpawnat

Anynama141 wrote: »

I don't want to make harsh judgements about individuals, but look at it the other way around: you get child benefit, you get a college grant, you get rent allowance (?) and you want more still?

Please don't take this as an attack on you personally - I wish you all the luck in the world, but perhaps we need to start appreciating all the help that we DO get from other people's taxes instead of complaining about the extra that we don't?

(and having said that, I also realise that you weren't really even complaining )

No, I wasn't Taxes have to be spread so far these days, it is not possible to fund people like that.

I was giving an example of how you are not given much assistance is taken from you if you try to go through education and better yourself as oppose to just staying where you are. We are in a lucky position that in 12 months we will more than likely able to get at least one job. The college creche, would have been circa 700pm with the reductions, it was a joke UCD allowed a private company in as the creche meaning it became too expensive for students and became the staff one! Then the rent, I was not getting RA at the time, but I assume you would get something if you were a single parent, which I was not, was 400 each for me and my partner, then food, transport, etc. So on my full grant, which I never actually received due to the delays and then having to leave college, and the CB of 140e, it would not be viable in the slightest.

Treehousetim wrote: »

Having children is a choice. The poster would have known her college training would have been harder to complete. But sure put that on other people why not.

Unplanned pregnancies are not choices. Ergo, the unplanned bit!

I was not expecting anything, where did I say that? Even the poster discussing it with me stated that. Take off the blinkers That poster asked "why didn't people educate themselves and get out of situations" and I was explaining how it is far more difficult than just going and applying for the CAO for some financially.

Marsden

Treehousetim wrote: »

Having children is a choice. The poster would have known her college training would have been harder to complete. But sure put that on other people why not.

As pointed out having children isn't always a choice, just like losing one's job. I guess only single people should be entitled to the BTEA. Still begs the question as to how unemployed people should get re-educated. It seems this has become one of those my way or the high way topic's tim. Maybe when your older you'll be able to see things from another perspective, or alternatively you might be lucky enough to become unemployed and in receipt of the generous allowances you like to sneer at. Then you'll be able to sit back put your feet up and let the rest of the country worry about finances.;)

wolfpawnat

Gatling wrote: »

There where other problem's will arise,
People on RA eventually get forced to move outside cities to further afield ,you will see rent's increase in these area's as demand for private accommodation surges along with school places for kids ,then you have locals up in arms because there forced to look to other places to live ,
No body will ever be happy

Well the problem becomes, you are living so far away, and in many cases without a proper transport system if you are not in the city limits, that you cannot get to work early in the day without a car. So say a career opportunity arises in Sandyford Industrial Estate, and you are living beyond the DB service, how would you get there for 8/9 in the morning? Opportunity lost. Same with people and even bar work or late opening Tesco's. You can hardly tell an employer, "I can't work past the last bus/luas/DART." They can find 80 other people who could.

gaius c

Can we knock something on the head please, this notion that Dublin city is now packed to the rafters with folk having to sleep on makeshift shelving before they get their turn sharing the single bed on Monday and Thursday?
There's plenty of accommodation in urban areas. We built like the clappers for over a decade and the population has not gone up significantly. Young people are emigrating, finding the cheapest accommodation available or living at home if they can.

Stock in urban areas is being left empty. Clancy quay alone will increase currently available rental stock for the entire of Dublin city by 10% when it comes online. There's more out by Sandyford and the city is full of derelict sites that will become viable for a sane level of development once we sort out our cost base. It's not just Dublin. Cork city has the entire Elysian development empty and that is slap bang in the middle of the city.

There is plenty of accommodation and if the powers that be stop meddling in the market, it will work itself out instead of this attempt to hold all sectors of the economy hostage in order to feed the bubble monster.

murphaph

gaius c wrote: »

Clancy quay alone will increase rental stock for the entire of Dublin city by 10% when it comes online.

I call bullsh!t on that. 10% of Dublin city? How many units are in Clancy Quay then? How many rented units in Dublin City? You sure you want to stand by this extraordinary claim?

gaius c

Edited my post to clarify. There's 2,088 properties available to rent on daft for Dublin city today. 420 apartments for sale in Clancy Quay. About half of them are let so that 200 odd apartments to go onto the market, i.e. 10% of currently available Dublin supply. Savills are letting them and as anyone who has contacted them will know, they are not under any real pressure to let them.

Ray Palmer

gaius c wrote: »

Edited my post to clarify. There's 2,088 properties available to rent on daft for Dublin city today. 420 apartments for sale in Clancy Quay. About half of them are let so that 200 odd apartments to go onto the market, i.e. 10% of currently available Dublin supply. Savills are letting them and as anyone who has contacted them will know, they are not under any real pressure to let them.

That is a stretch on logic. You are using daft to gauge the entire number of properties in Dublin for rent, they don't hold all the ads and many are double posted. It still isn't a list of all property in Dublin so no way to gauge 200 properties is 10% of Dublin property. That is the figure you need, not as a percentage of rental properties on the market against ads.

That figure is of property ads and doesn't show all properties rented out in Dublin. Very faulty logic

gaius c

Like everything else in this country, real data is hard to find. If you have better ideas, I'm all ears.

Anynama141

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That is a stretch on logic. You are using daft to gauge the entire number of properties in Dublin for rent, they don't hold all the ads and many are double posted. It still isn't a list of all property in Dublin so no way to gauge 200 properties is 10% of Dublin property. That is the figure you need, not as a percentage of rental properties on the market against ads.

That figure is of property ads and doesn't show all properties rented out in Dublin. Very faulty logic

It's a pretty good approximation, I would say. Do you have a better data source?

riclad

the reason They bought in photo id for welfare users was to stop fraud,
the ra rates vary by area, they are much cheaper outside dublin.
There are many people on disability allowance ,there only way of getting accomodation is thru the rent allowance system.
EMPTY houses in kerry are of no use to someone who lives in galway ,or dublin.
Many of these houses ,are in small towns , they should never have been built.
The rent allowance rates have been reduced in the last 4 years.

Treehousetim

Marsden wrote: »

As pointed out having children isn't always a choice, just like losing one's job. I guess only single people should be entitled to the BTEA. Still begs the question as to how unemployed people should get re-educated. It seems this has become one of those my way or the high way topic's tim. Maybe when your older you'll be able to see things from another perspective, or alternatively you might be lucky enough to become unemployed and in receipt of the generous allowances you like to sneer at. Then you'll be able to sit back put your feet up and let the rest of the country worry about finances.;)

Thanks for your marvellous advice. Only thing is, I did become unemployed but got off my ass and retrained in a totally different area. Persecution complexes are not very productive things to carry around with you.

Bannasidhe

Treehousetim wrote: »

Thanks for your marvellous advice. Only thing is, I did become unemployed but got off my ass and retrained in a totally different area. Persecution complexes are not very productive things to carry around with you.

I'll pass on your advice to re-train to all of those unemployed PhD's shall I?
Even the mature ones who were re-training when they got their degrees and doctorates.

Of course they will have to self fund as once one has a PhD the gubbermint reckon one has reached the pinnacle of educational achievement so...

Still, I'm sure they could do a FÁS course... or become IT specialists...

Treehousetim

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I'll pass on your advice to re-train to all of those unemployed PhD's shall I?
Even the mature ones who were re-training when they got their degrees and doctorates.

Of course they will have to self fund as once one has a PhD the gubbermint reckon one has reached the pinnacle of educational achievement so...

Still, I'm sure they could do a FÁS course... or become IT specialists...

I know lots of PhD students who are retraining. Unlike you, even they don't feel too high and mighty to do that.

desaparecidos

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I'll pass on your advice to re-train to all of those unemployed PhD's shall I?

Any unemployed PhD clearly has a PhD in a completely pointless subject matter, so yes they should retrain.

Bannasidhe

Treehousetim wrote: »

I know lots of PhD students who are retraining. Unlike you, even they don't feel too high and mighty to do that.

Resorting to having digs at people now tim?

High and mighty am I?

Oh dear, oh dear.

Treehousetim

Fas and it courses are nothing to be looked down upon , even by PhDs. And fair play to the ones that try them.

The_Conductor

Guys- one warning, and one warning only- do not personalise your posts. If you disagree with what someone else posts- refute the post factually, without attacking the poster, or use the report post function. Its not hard to remain civil towards one another. This is your one and only warning.........

Gatling

Any how rent allowence

Should we Ask Frau Merkel what the solution is

StillWaters

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I was giving an example of how you are not given much assistance is taken from you if you try to go through education and better yourself as oppose to just staying where you are. We are in a lucky position that in 12 months we will more than likely able to get at least one job. The college creche, would have been circa 700pm with the reductions, it was a joke UCD allowed a private company in as the creche meaning it became too expensive for students and became the staff one!

Did you look into community creches, funded by the State and providing very heavily subsidised childcare for SW recipients Or the CETS scheme for FAS and VEC courses, again offering free or subsidised childcare.

Anynama141

Gatling wrote: »

Any how rent allowence

Should we Ask Frau Merkel what the solution is

Yes - the German taxpayers are not gifting us enough cash to pay our public servants and our unemployed sufficiently more than the German public servants and their unemployed. This situation is an outrage. We demand more German subsidies for our grossly inefficient system - it is our right.

Or perhaps not.

gaius c

Gatling wrote: »

Any how rent allowence

Should we Ask Frau Merkel what the solution is

Sure. She wants to know how a country with barely a quarter of Germany's population density that has the IMF at the door has such expensive rents. Any ideas?

Gatling

gaius c wrote: »

Sure. She wants to know how a country with barely a quarter of Germany's population density that has the IMF at the door has such expensive rents. Any ideas?

I only live in a RA penthouse apartment in D4 ;-)

Why would I know

spacetrap

Treehousetim wrote: »

There are people who work who have to "uproot" not infrequently.

It must be terrible to be very ignorant of the facts while still spouting out rubbish. For people to uproot they must satisfy a local connection to an area that they move to before they can get on the council or corporation housing list. This is an absolute rule before one can then apply for rent supplement. So if a family from Dublin with no local connection to any other area how is it their fault that they must live where they are allowed.Just for the record I lost my job then in turn lost my home and am now in receipt of RA. In your eyes is this wrong.

jobeenfitz

I work and pay rent in Galway. I am glad to be able to pay it. If I became unemployed I would be happy to know I can get rent allowance rather than become homeless. Maybe the RA should be overhauled or more social housing be provided. I don't think we should attack the people in need of RA as this may be their only option. Everybody who spends money in this country pays VAT so are also taxpayers whether employed or unemployed. It is hard for some of us who are employed paying PAYE, USC, PRSI and other costs such as petrol and lunch money, etc. Especially low paid. We all need the safety net of dole and rent allowance in case we too become unemployed. I think some of us get annoyed because we see the few who rip off the dole and other benefits but these are a minority and we should remember this from our lofty position of employed and paying (maybe overpaying) our way. It seems since the recession has hit we all want to rip each other apart and blame the other crowd for our crappy lifes. I am struggling to pay bills sometimes and I have family who are unemployed and have it worse. I see that being unemployed is more than just a financial problem it can also be cause of depression. The whole country pizzed off and blaming the others is just not going to solve anything.

Treehousetim

Strangely all the people giving me a piece of their mind are people who were working but lost their jobs. If you look at the original post it doesn't even refer to that group of people but sure let out the frustration guys. I'm sure it's therapeutic!

Bannasidhe

Treehousetim wrote: »

Strangely all the people giving me a piece of their mind are people who were working but lost their jobs. If you look at the original post it doesn't even refer to that group of people but sure let out the frustration guys. I'm sure it's therapeutic!

Not so.

Some of us who you term 'high and mighty PhDs' are still employed which is why I am up, at my computer and working at 6:44 am.

Slutmonkey57b

Anynama141 wrote: »

Yes - the German taxpayers are not gifting us enough cash to pay our public servants and our unemployed sufficiently more than the German public servants and their unemployed. This situation is an outrage. We demand more German subsidies for our grossly inefficient system - it is our right.

Or perhaps not.

The Germans are not gifting us cash for that. They're doing it so we won't default on unsecured debt held by German banks. That's all.

Treehousetim

Great the high and mighty PhDs are not ALL on FAS courses. Maybe just the ones who study topics with little or no commercial value, except for the few who got on the academic gravy train before it left the station..

wolfpawnat

StillWaters wrote: »

Did you look into community creches, funded by the State and providing very heavily subsidised childcare for SW recipients Or the CETS scheme for FAS and VEC courses, again offering free or subsidised childcare.

Community Creches have lists several pages long and I was in nursing. Their hours and mine were not workable I had to be to the hospital by 7:30 for a shift and would be required to stay until at least that in the evening most times, daddy the same lectures or work exp before the creche opened. And we weren't on SW or anything at the time either, we were both students.

As for doing a FAS scheme or anything now. I have my name down and have had meetings, but nothing has come my way yet.

Treehousetim

Don't nursing students get paid? And are shifts not three times a week or am I confusing student with qualified nurse?
Let me add that I think you should think long and hard before you give up the nursing for the sake of having a small baby at home. If I were you I would try to finish and go through the discomfort it takes to do that. Might be too late but your baby won't be young forever..