Why is rent allowance so generous?

The_Conductor

In my opinion, and thats just my opinion- the reason rent allowance is so high- is merely a reflection of the simple but irrefutable fact, that the government and vested interests either have no interest in having a lower cost economy, or have very interesting lobby groups fighting their own corners.

Its all well and good to have lobby groups advocating on behalf of a particular group/industry/sector- however to buy into every little whim of every lobby group, at a cost to the population at large is criminal.

Take for example- the Commission for Energy Regulation. The various electricity companies and gas companies are nominally under the auspices of this body. Yet- when the time last came round for Bord Gais to seek an increase in its residential prices for domestic consumers- while paying lip service to the very hard times most of us are experiencing, they ponied up the full increase requested. The justification? To maintain the revenue level of the company. Nope, I'm not joking.

We have examples like this strewn all over our economy, strangling consumers, bankrupting the taxpayer- and making the everyday cost of living here quite remarkably high.

We have the glib comments in the Dail about Tesco board members referring to Ireland as 'Treasure Island'- and admonishing their refusal to give a breakdown of their profits made in Ireland. On the other hand- we have government ministers congratulating Musgraves on successfully keeping Superquinn Irish- when there was firm interest from 2 UK players for the company- who would have introduced some competition into the sector.

It all goes back to parish pump politics- bringing the bacon home to their own constituents, and having the vision to look out for the country at large, bedamned.

Councils were allowed to forego their quotas of social housing in exchange for cash donations from developers. On the selfsame hand- we encouraged council home dwellers to purchase their erstwhile council homes, at remarkable discounts to open market selling prices- in the interest of encouraging property ownership and social integration- all the time claiming we had some magic formula and woe betide anyone who dared speak up.

So- we've run down our levels of council housing to very low levels, and quite simply don't have to dosh to replenish them (not to mention, we've also sold off much of the suitable land for development, god only knows where the money has gone).

Developers were encouraged to rental sector- with the unique decision to allow them write off the mortgage interest on their properties, against tax. This drove up demand- mostly in places where people wanted to live- why buy an investment property somewhere it may lie idle (mind you that didn't stop the madness in Carrick-on-Shannon and large swathes of Leitrim). This drove up prices, driving up the rent needed to service these debts- and with the exception of those now NAMA'ed, these people still have these debts to service (meanwhile, we're now dismantling the allowance of mortgage interest as a tax deductible expense- so the tax burden on these investors is going up and up). We can shed crocodile tears for them- but the simple fact is- we encouraged the sector- it boomed, now in bad times- we want to milk it. Somethings going to give- because its not adding up.

We can point at the 3,200 vacant apartments in Carrick-on-Shannon and say- hey lets move the top 3,200 from the various housing lists there. Now- we've gone and created a ghetto, aside from anything else (and I don't think the good folk from Carrick-on-Shannon would thank us either)- you can't just uproot Tim and Mary from all their family and friends- and move them somewhere where they are unlikely to ever get employment again- and they are still exposed to the ridiculous expenses we allow in our economy (just for a laugh compare the Lidl and Aldi prices with some of their continental stores, its hilarious- the joys of the internet).

Back to the grocery sector- I was called a fool by Eddie Hobbs of all people, on a Newstalk phone in show, when I predicted the abolition of the grocery order would result in price matching, and more expensive groceries for consumers. Just as it came to pass.

Insurance in Ireland- well, we're all paying to bailout the Quinns for the next 20 years- and have handed the company over to Liberty, on this basis. We're also cannibalising the health insurance market- in the name of free health insurance for all- the Minister never having contemplated how his reforms would drive a large number of folk out of the market and into the universal public health care- driving up its costs, at a time when its budget is constricting.

Its all a mess- and all little segments being micro-managed, without anyone thinking of the larger picture- or how one decision in one sector, has commensurate knock-on effects, in several other areas (or perhaps they do- but just don't care?)

The only way to drive costs down- now seems to be to rebuild the economy from the bottom up- however, of course the will to do this- quite simply isn't there.

wolfpawnat

Treehousetim wrote: »

Don't nursing students get paid? And are shifts not three times a week or am I confusing student with qualified nurse?
Let me add that I think you should think long and hard before you give up the nursing for the sake of having a small baby at home. If I were you I would try to finish and go through the discomfort it takes to do that. Might be too late but your baby won't be young forever..

They got rid of student pay for the most part, but before they were paid. You had to do a full nursing working week, 3 or 4 days based on the hospital. My place would have been 13 hour shifts three days and a half day the fourth. Great if you don't have kids, terrible if you have no help from family and the like.

I have thought for a while (nearly 3 years) about going back, but the costs are just too difficult to contend with for now. In 12 months we'll be in a far better position and who knows, I may get back to college then, but if my partner gets a job (employment and pay are generally good in that field), we are out of this situation and I would be able to afford after-school care for my son and go and do another course.

Nursing these days, there are 1600 qualifying a year and only 100 jobs, so it is just the flight to England for many of them, I'll go into something else. Who knows there are FAS courses going the whole time, I may get something in the year that may be of use until then

Bannasidhe

Treehousetim wrote: »

Great the high and mighty PhDs are not ALL on FAS courses. Maybe just the ones who study topics with little or no commercial value, except for the few who got on the academic gravy train before it left the station..

Since you seem to be unable to engage without ad homs tim I don't really see the point of continuing to discuss this with someone who on the one hand insists people should re train but then dismisses those who do the training as 'being on the academic gravy train'.

:rolleyes:

gaius c

How about increasing social welfare payments so that people can source their own accommodation and on their own budget but doing away with RA altogether?

gaius c

Rent supplement rules are to be changed to bring it more into line with social housing differential rents.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/rent-supplement-changes-will-allow-recipients-who-work-to-retain-payment-1.1367881

Rent supplement will be replaced by a new “housing assistance payment”, which will allow those who take up full-time work to continue to receive a proportion of the payment. The size of the payment will depend on a person’s ability to pay. Officials hope the move will prevent welfare dependency and incentivise people to take up work. Responsibility for the payment will transfer from the DSP to local authorities, which are responsible for meeting housing needs.
The payment would be made directly to landlords rather than tenants, as is the case with rent supplement at present. A spokesman confirmed yesterday that legislation providing for the move is due to come before the Oireachtas shortly and a number of pilot projects are due to take place later in the year.

The Department of Social Protection funds almost 40% of the private rental sector in Ireland at a cost of about €430m

wolfpawnat

gaius c wrote: »

How about increasing social welfare payments so that people can source their own accommodation and on their own budget but doing away with RA altogether?

Not everyone gets RA, so that would increase the SW bill to an even more unsustainable level.

wolfpawnat

desaparecidos wrote: »

Any unemployed PhD clearly has a PhD in a completely pointless subject matter, so yes they should retrain.

That's a very broad assumption. There are those who get PhD's in area's that are horrifically pointless yes, but many others who would have gotten them in what would have been very employable and useful areas, but due to the downturn have found themselves unemployed due to companies moving out of Ireland (as we can see many are) and employment freezes.

StillWaters

gaius c wrote: »

Rent supplement rules are to be changed to bring it more into line with social housing differential rents.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/rent-supplement-changes-will-allow-recipients-who-work-to-retain-payment-1.1367881

That's very positive. The main issue I have with RA is how it creates a poverty trap.

wolfpawnat

StillWaters wrote: »

That's very positive. The main issue I have with RA is how it creates a poverty trap.

My mother was in receipt of RA when she was working, albeit only a 20 hour week, it's not really a very new initiative. But it is so important to help get people out and into the workplace and not leave them thinking they cannot take up employment for financial reasons. But even if someone is only working 20 hours a week, it is still a help to the economy

StillWaters

wolfpawnat wrote: »

My mother was in receipt of RA when she was working, albeit only a 20 hour week, it's not really a very new initiative. But it is so important to help get people out and into the workplace and not leave them thinking they cannot take up employment for financial reasons. But even if someone is only working 20 hours a week, it is still a help to the economy

But it really disincentivises anyone from working full time. Also under this measure payment to be made directly to the LL. That should go a good bit to making more accommodation available to RA recipients

Anynama141

wolfpawnat wrote: »

That's a very broad assumption. There are those who get PhD's in area's that are horrifically pointless yes, but many others who would have gotten them in what would have been very employable and useful areas, but due to the downturn have found themselves unemployed due to companies moving out of Ireland (as we can see many are) and employment freezes.

I don't think this is happening very much at all, and if anything we are looking good for increased international investment as our costs come down and we become more competitive.

Of course cheaper property and lower rents are great for increasing our competitiveness. But you don't hear that in the newspapers or from vested interests for some reason.

Treehousetim

Bannasidhe, I'm sure the majority of people retraining are not training to enter employment in academia where jobs are scarce so don't see your point. I'm all for being realistic. If your qualification is not making you employable the go get one that will, is how I see it. That's not being critical, it's being practical and positive.

wolfpawnat

Anynama141 wrote: »

I don't think this is happening very much at all, and if anything we are looking good for increased international investment as our costs come down and we become more competitive.

Of course cheaper property and lower rents are great for increasing our competitiveness. But you don't hear that in the newspapers or from vested interests for some reason.

Wasn't there a case recently that an "upwards only" rent case was reversed due to the rent a year being more than the value of the building or something to that effect? That would definitely aid recovery!!!

My partner's cousin is in Poland for 9 months training staff in banking, it would make you wonder are the banks only planning to open more offices there, or move their operations there? Also haven't Dell and a few others headed to Eastern Europe for cheaper labour? Worrisome in a few ways.

StillWaters wrote: »

But it really disincentivises anyone from working full time. Also under this measure payment to be made directly to the LL. That should go a good bit to making more accommodation available to RA recipients

The portion of my rent the SW pay is paid directly to my LL. I think this is great. I don't have to worry about that money, I don't have to collect it and on a bad week I don't need to worry about borrowing from it and worry about paying it back. I just need to save my few euro every week and pay it off once a month.

The Spider

Lowering rent allowance'll do nothing, rents will still go up, supply and demand and all that. We've an apartment rented out and are planning to whack up the rent by a couple of hundred when the lease is up, may as well make some cash off of it, and judging by the interest we had in it the last time this won't be a problem.

Oh and there's no way on earth we'd take anyone on rent allowance, they usually (not always) tend to be shall we say challenging tenants. One other thing is the wear and tear, someone on rent allowance is in the house all day instead of work, more likely to cause damage to something if you're in the house for a longer period of time.

gaius c

The Spider wrote: »

Lowering rent allowance'll do nothing, rents will still go up, supply and demand and all that. We've an apartment rented out and are planning to whack up the rent by a couple of hundred when the lease is up, may as well make some cash off of it, and judging by the interest we had in it the last time this won't be a problem.

Oh and there's no way on earth we'd take anyone on rent allowance, they usually (not always) tend to be shall we say challenging tenants. One other thing is the wear and tear, someone on rent allowance is in the house all day instead of work, more likely to cause damage to something if you're in the house for a longer period of time.

Last week you were telling us you only have a PPR in the GDA?

Talking of rents, anybody here keep an eye on the numbers available on DAFT. It's jumped 10% for Dublin in the last two weeks. I expect the students leaving for the summer to be having an impact on that.

Gatling

Just have to browse the state benefits forum on here to see how rent allowance is too easy ,many posts on oh we have one property here and another over seas or I own a house I want to rent it out then claim rent allowance for another place I'm going to rent ,
Or my husband wants to work somewhere else to where we live we want rent allowance for him ,

The_Conductor

Don't worry one little bit- DSFA staff read the forum, and are very good at putting two and two together.

Treehousetim

smccarrick wrote: »

Don't worry one little bit- DSFA staff read the forum, and are very good at putting two and two together.

Yeh? How do know they do that or is it just a guess ? Didn't think they'd be bothered....

zom

The Spider wrote: »

Oh and there's no way on earth we'd take anyone on rent allowance, they usually (not always) tend to be shall we say challenging tenants. One other thing is the wear and tear, someone on rent allowance is in the house all day instead of work, more likely to cause damage to something if you're in the house for a longer period of time.

Isn't it all landlords dream - non challenging tenant, professional in her 40 working part time for big company, living countryside with family but working part time 2-3 day/week so she rent flat in the city. She eats at town (no kitchen used), she wash at home (no washing machine used), she even poos at work (so toilet not much used too)? She alway do full cleaning when going home so even after few years of such use flat still looks like new build?

The Spider

zom wrote: »

Isn't it all landlords dream - non challenging tenant, professional in her 40 working part time for big company, living countryside with family but working part time 2-3 day/week so she rent flat in the city. She eats at town (no kitchen used), she wash at home (no washing machine used), she even poos at work (so toilet not much used too)? She alway do full cleaning when going home so even after few years of such use flat still looks like new build?

Well you know what they say, you should always take a siht in work, that way you're paid to siht!

The_Conductor

If you want to crack jokes and take the piss- take it elsewhere, this is not an appropriate venue. Regards, SMcCarrick