is there such a thing as a selfless act?

51NN3R

aaronjumper wrote: »

What if you hate helping people is it selfless then?

Hate it or like it,do it or don't,all of these remain you satisfying your desire.

I hate working but i do it because it pays and that helps me to satisfy my need or desire to survive,i hate helping but i do it for approval which satisfies my need to do what i think is the right thing to do.

aaronjumper

51NN3R wrote: »

Hate it or like it,do it or don't,all of these remain you satisfying your desire.

I hate working but i do it because it pays and that helps me to satisfy my need or desire to survive,i hate helping but i do it for approval which satisfies my need to do what i think is the right thing to do.

How is doing something you hate satisfying a desire?
Doing a job to earn money is not really the same thing.

Also I don't hate helping people just throwing it in there as some people do hate it.

51NN3R

crazy cabbage wrote: »

the old woman is happier. The boy is happier. If he didn't help the old woman then everyone would be worse off.

" Doing a good thing makes you feel good "


but also makes the people around you feel good. Makes the world a better place. I dont think that that is selfish.

Right there,you do it because it makes you feel good and that is your payment,you got something for doing something which makes it non selfless.

Mardy Bum

51NN3R wrote: »

I have read maybe three books in my life,one was of mice and men the others I can't remember,most of what i know comes from sitting and thinking and having to listen to my well read father as i was growing but i am aware of Stoicism having something to do with lacking emotion and that would be a good argument for what i am talking about in the selflessness as it would imply no feedback but if we neither felt good nor bad then we would have only one need and that is instinct of survival ,which would be the desire to continue which is again self satisfaction,
To be without desire would simply be without purpose and existence then becomes meaningless.


one more thing,thank you for this conversation as i am tired of sitting in my own head and i am learning from this how to better communicate with others,

Right now is the perfect example of "Created Perception",you and i both perceive our own reality and not what actually maybe,we both feel as though we are making perfect sense but the message is not quite getting through, we are at two ends Plato's Cave

I would encourage you to read DFW's Brief Interviews with Hideous Men. It examines exactly what you are philosophizing about through the short story form.
If you look at the quote in my first post from DFW he emphasizes the continuity of the selfless acts. If you can do it for years and years well any emotional gains will have long be diminished from diminishing marginal returns. i would agree a one off selfless act is simply an act one those to gain some intrinsic gain whereas a continued and unending (bar death) will to do good would be considered selfless. The only exception would be those driven by religious fervor as they are doing it for their god.

51NN3R

aaronjumper wrote: »

How is doing something you hate satisfying a desire?
Doing a job to earn money is not really the same thing.

Also I don't hate helping people just throwing it in there as some people do hate it.

Why do it?
What purpose have you for doing in the first place?
why do what you hate?

ps.
my reply was a metaphor,i don't hate work nor helping others,it was an example.

51NN3R

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I would encourage you to read DFW's Brief Interviews with Hideous Men.

I will thanks,
nice talking to to you.

aaronjumper

51NN3R wrote: »

Why do it?
What purpose have you for doing in the first place?
why do what you hate?

ps.
my reply was a metaphor,i don't hate work nor helping others,it was an example.

Maybe a friend or family member asked, maybe it is easier to quickly help them on their way than watch them falling over themselves trying to do it.

Or maybe even though you hate it you are not so selfish as to leave them to their plight and help out anyway.

51NN3R

aaronjumper wrote: »

Maybe a friend or family member asked, maybe it is easier to quickly help them on their way than watch them falling over themselves trying to do it.

Or maybe even though you hate it you are not so selfish as to leave them to their plight and help out anyway.

Again,why help in the first place?
What reason have you for helping?
How will it make you feel if you help?

You do it all to satisfy your need/desire to do it,this is then self satisfaction,it makes it easier for you in not having to watch them falling over themselves because watching this makes you uncomfortable and this is not a feeling you want so you look for comfort by doing and are then satisfied,which makes it a self satisfying act,

Selfishness is a necessity for without it you would have no purpose,think of what it would be like to have no desire what so ever,no need for anything,not even breathing,

Have you ever just sat there and realized that you have forgotten to breath and how you are then driven to take a deep breath because you desire to survive and not die?
An auto response of the body but it is still your need to live,again self satisfying.

EoghanIRL

Tldr ,

aaronjumper

I believe that we are going in circles.

badgerbadger

Do you ever stop to consider the nature of time the Garda asked the publican ( who was pulling a pint at 10:30 ) sarcastically. Look at it this way. Suppose a man's life is 60 years and a horse's 20. The horse is aging three times as fast as the man. This ratio is maintained in all proportions which involve the factor of time. When we talk of a horse galloping at 30 miles per hour we mean that he is covering thirty miles in the space of a human hour. To assess the animal's objectively, we must think in terms of horse-hours. It takes three of his own hours to cover his thirty miles and thus he is making the comparatively poor time of 10 miles an hour. On the other hand a man running at the rate of ten miles an hour would be regarded as the fleetest of creatures by an elephant, who lives ten times as long as man, because the hour would represent only six minutes of the elephant's time. To give you some inkling of what's happening when a man travels at 'thirty' 'miles' per 'hour' on horseback, I'm afraid I would have to send up to Merrion Square for the loan of a few quaternions.

KKkitty

I think all prisoners should have to read the OP aloud at intervals during the day. Scrolling through that on the touch site is painfu.

51NN3R

aaronjumper wrote: »

I believe that we are going in circles.

yup,look on you-tube for the double-slit experiment ,it shows that reality is entirely our created perception,look for "dr quantum double-slit" /watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc and then the "Reality is a Matrix" watch?v=XPqferL9no8,you might like what you find

this makes it easier to understand why we all find it so hard to actually see the other persons point of view

i would just embed those videos here but have no clue how to do this hehe

FreeasmyHair

Did you get this from Friends?

Czarcasm

51NN3R wrote: »

yup,look on you-tube for the double-slit experiment ,it shows that reality is entirely our created perception,look for "dr quantum double-slit" /watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc and then the "Reality is a Matrix" watch?v=XPqferL9no8,you might like what you find

this makes it easier to understand why we all find it so hard to actually see the other persons point of view

i would just embed those videos here but have no clue how to do this hehe

51NN3R wrote: »

just imagine how far over the edge I'm gone with all this tripe,it's a thing i can't stop thinking about,years of quantum physics to Plato's Allegory of the Cave.

thanks for your comment

Years of quantum physics, and yet you never got around to learning how to embed a YouTube clip? Fùck.

Anyway, see the

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

brackets? Stick the Video ID (the part after the v= in between the ] [.

51NN3R

Czarcasm wrote: »

Years of quantum physics, and yet you never got around to learning how to embed a YouTube clip? Fùck.

Anyway, see the brackets? Stick the Video ID (the part after the v= in between the ][.

There was a time when i knew how to do it ,it's just something I'd forgotten,
as Bud once said about Kelly,you can only pour so much water in a glass before some of it starts to spill out :P

thanks for the tip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPqferL9no8

crazy cabbage

Does that mean that when people are praying for someone that they are actully doing it becouse it makes them feel good and not becouse of the person they are ment to be praying for.

I was going to try and argue against you but that is actully a point in your favour and an important point in the debate. In no way does me praying for someone else benifit them in any way but people still do it.

They will tell themselves that they are doing it for someone else and they mightn't even tell anyone. It doesn't benifit the other person so they only reason they could be doing it is becouse it makes them feel good. or it was bet into them

Again i am really not sure that this is selfish though. Naive maby but not selfish


ps: to the poster above me. That Dr.Quantam video is psudo science at its best. While it is takeing some good facts it is twisting them into something it isn't.
edit: prehaps that was a bit extream but there is alot of newage BS attached to that video and 'what the beep do we know' in general

OldGoat

Ego, schmego. I'm all about the Super Id thesedays.

51NN3R

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Does that mean that when people are praying for someone that they are actully doing it becouse it makes them feel good and not becouse of the person they are ment to be praying for.

I was going to try and argue against you but that is actully a point in your favour and an important point in the debate. In no way does me praying for someone else benifit them in any way but people still do it.

They will tell themselves that they are doing it for someone else and they mightn't even tell anyone. It doesn't benifit the other person so they only reason they could be doing it is becouse it makes them feel good. or it was bet into them

Again i am really not sure that this is selfish though. Naive maby but not selfish


ps: to the poster above me. That Dr.Quantam video is psudo science at its best. While it is takeing some good facts it is twisting them into something it isn't.
edit: prehaps that was a bit extream but there is alot of newage BS attached to that video and 'what the beep do we know' in general

The DR.Quantum video is to guide others in the direction of this topic,it's a nice way to start the understanding of reality until you find
Claus Jönsson who did it in 1961 and then Giulio Pozzi in 1974, Akira Tonomura in 1989,again by Pozzi in i think 2008 with a single electron and one by one last year by Pozzi,and Feynman's thought experiment ,this is a very complexed subject to which no one has the answer but there is one point that gets me and that is 'if according to these experiments and then coming to the conclusion that reality is nothing but a self created illusion then so too are the tools used to perform the experiments and cannot therefore be considered accurate which leads you into an insanity i know all too well,

As to your praying for others,you are right in it being about you and as for believing in a God ,you have to accept that even God is selfish in that God wants the worshiper to do things Gods way "worship me,obey me,pray to me or burn in everlasting torment,seems God truly did make us all in his own image but according to the Unified Field "we are God split to infinity experiencing existence in all possible forms" or God is everywhere and in everything always and forever.

I don't like bringing the God into it because it always sets off a religious debate but i did so now i have to watch it develop and vanish over the next few days,

oh well ,here we go