It's happened in Iceland - it could happen here too

hatrickpatrick

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/icelanders-oust-government-over-austerity-programme-1.1375471

Voters in Iceland have returned the government which ruled from 1980 right up to and including their spectacular economic meltdown.
This sent a shudder down my spine when it popped up in my news feed. If we needed any more reminding of the horrific reality that there is a possibility of Fianna Fail one day clawing its way back into power, this should serve as a kick up the ass for anyone who complacently assumed that they were finished for good. I will fully admit to being one of those naive optimists at the time of the last general election.

In my view, anyone with any shred of pride in their country needs to band together and figure out some way of making sure this absolutely does not happen. And don't get me wrong, I despise our current government as much as anyone, but if there's one thing I'm 100% positive about it's that Fianna Fail must never, ever, ever be allowed anywhere near any position of authority for as long as that organization continues to blacken our nation with its existence.

What can be done about this?

Ilik Urgee

Don't vote Fianna Fail?

orestes

So you basically want to shut down the democratic process?

humberklog

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/icelanders-oust-government-over-austerity-programme-1.1375471



What can be done about this?

Keep voting FG and Labour?

NuckingFacker

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/icelanders-oust-government-over-austerity-programme-1.1375471

Voters in Iceland have returned the government which ruled from 1980 right up to and including their spectacular economic meltdown.
This sent a shudder down my spine when it popped up in my news feed. If we needed any more reminding of the horrific reality that there is a possibility of Fianna Fail one day clawing its way back into power, this should serve as a kick up the ass for anyone who complacently assumed that they were finished for good. I will fully admit to being one of those naive optimists at the time of the last general election.

In my view, anyone with any shred of pride in their country needs to band together and figure out some way of making sure this absolutely does not happen. And don't get me wrong, I despise our current government as much as anyone, but if there's one thing I'm 100% positive about it's that Fianna Fail must never, ever, ever be allowed anywhere near any position of authority for as long as that organization continues to blacken our nation with its existence.

What can be done about this?

Vote FG -they'll burn the bondholders and promise never to introduce a property tax. They sound really good.

Bipolar Joe

All of them are as bad as each other. It's a complete farce.

ted1

With a population of 370,000 there's not much room for different parties. Also if you think of 6 degrees of seperation pretty much everyone is related so a lot of family loyalty would be involved at the polls

pragmatic1

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Vote FG -they'll burn the bondholders and promise never to introduce a property tax. They sound really good.

Will they also fcuk up the public finances to such a degree that we'll have to beg the EU, IMF and the ECB to save us.

pragmatic1

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

All of them are as bad as each other. It's a complete farce.

No. Bad as FG are FF are in another league entirely.

squod

Heading for a sixth? inquiry into the events of Sept 2008. Still no-one in jail. Mass fraud goes unpunished and seemingly unnoticed by the majority.

Senna

If it was Ireland that returned FF to government, the first comment on AH would be "This could only happen in Ireland".

kupus

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Will they also fcuk up the public finances to such a degree that we'll have to beg the EU, IMF and the ECB to save us.

I think that was fianna fail as well.!!

Bipolar Joe

pragmatic1 wrote: »

No. Bad as FG are FF are in another league entirely.

It's pretty much all spin. They'll tell you they will do this and won't do that, but the reality is they all will, either because it's the unpopular but right thing to do, or because they're just greedy. The reality is, politics is a business.

Manach

At least we have Labour's way or the Frankfurt way. Oh wait, were they lieing about that as well in case the plebs did not have the wit to fully understand their true intent.

3rdDegree

orestes wrote: »

So you basically want to shut down the democratic process?

Yes, we can't be trusted.

hatrickpatrick

I'm not in any way talking about upending the democratic process. I'm more thinking along the lines of tactics ranging from some kind of campaign to remind people just how rotten this organization is, or the formation of a new party which could challenge the entire Irish establishment and permanently change the dynamic we have at the moment with regard to FF/FG and whatever poor sods decide to try their luck going into coalition with them.

Anything along those lines. But I really do feel there needs to be SOME kind of counter campaign to try and prevent this from happening.

kupus

we need a dictator, I wonder if Micheal O Leary would be interested in the role.

ilovesleep

On saturday night's news Mehole Mairtin was yapping their FF gathering about how immoral the household tax is, forgetting compeletely that he and his party was going to introduce it.

hatrickpatrick

ilovesleep wrote: »

Mehole Mairtin

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Gotta remember this

ilovesleep

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Gotta remember this

Fcuking hypocrite.
Not you Patrick. I like you. But Mehole.

hatrickpatrick

ilovesleep wrote: »

Fcuking hypocrite.
Not you Patrick. I like you. But Mehole.

He's a hypocrite indeed. Having said that, Enda Kenny is a demonstrable hypocrite as well, if you look up his previous remarks about property tax from the safety of opposition.

I've said this many times, but the only way we'll prevent political hypocrisy is if we treat election manifestoes as a legally binding contract which, if violated, triggers an automatic and immediate general election. That way it would be impossible for a politician to knowingly lie in order to defraud voters of their votes.

oppenheimer1

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm not in any way talking about upending the democratic process. I'm more thinking along the lines of tactics ranging from some kind of campaign to remind people just how rotten this organization is, or the formation of a new party which could challenge the entire Irish establishment and permanently change the dynamic we have at the moment with regard to FF/FG and whatever poor sods decide to try their luck going into coalition with them.

Anything along those lines. But I really do feel there needs to be SOME kind of counter campaign to try and prevent this from happening.

The main problem is that any kind of new party that comes on the scene will have to promise more of the same, because the troika have set out the path for the government to follow. All subsequent governments have to abide by the commitments made by the past.

Also the idea that FF are evil bogeymen is stupid. They did not set out for what happened to happen.

Chuck Stone

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

All of them are as bad as each other. It's a complete farce.

Farce is correct. The illusion of choice. It doesn't matter who you vote you're going to get a power-hungry **** lying to you about giving you back your taxes in one way or another.

BillyMitchel

ilovesleep wrote: »

Fcuking hypocrite.
Not you Patrick. I like you. But Mehole.

Mehole is full of shít...

Duck Soup

What amazes me is that Mehole was mentioned in dispatches during one of the inquiries as having (allegedly) taken a five figure bung (allegedly) for planning permission (allegedly) for a shopping (allegedly) centre.

So when it turns out that Fianna Fail are the most corrupt, incompetent shower of goatfúckers ever to have have disgraced a modern democracy, they roll out one of the old-school back-slapping, nodder-and-winkers to be the fresh, shiny new face of New Improved Fianna Failure.

Sorry, but anyone who votes for them any time within the next 100 years needs to have their vote taken away for them on the grounds of mental incompetence.

murraykil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FRVvjGL2C0

Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Labour, they are all gutless when it comes to standing up to the EU, the IMF, the civil service.

Until high level civil servants have contracts that expire with the Government, changing the Government does not change much.

Unless Gerry gets in, then things will change . . .

Enda is going to have a hard time preventing a Gerry and Michael T&T next time round! :pac: Martin will find it hard to resist joining Sinn Féin in power, or else they might just have to quit the bs and combine FF and FG.

It would be so interesting to see a three way split between Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael at the next election!

General General

This is the best we can do... the politicians are drawn from the great Irish public, don't forget.

What we've got is the best we can do.

LOI Stats

Thank Christ this thread wasn't about a volcano.

Banjo String

I like the way enders keeps referring to the blanket, bank guarantee, and how it was treachery to the Irish people etc etc etc.


Did he not sign off on the legislation for same while in opposition

amacca

ted1 wrote: »

With a population of 370,000 there's not much room for different parties. Also if you think of 6 degrees of seperation pretty much everyone is related so a lot of family loyalty would be involved at the polls

I take your point but that population figure seems a off, is that the number with a vote??? seems low even then

ilovesleep

ilovesleep wrote: »

Fcuking hypocrite.
Not you Patrick. I like you. But Mehole.

Isn't that part of the job description for a politician in opposition though!

They always oppose "unpopular" legislation which they'll still carry out if they get elected next time.

As for the property tax, well that was imposed on us by a greater power! :mad:

GalwayGuy2

So everything isn't rosey in Iceland. I thought they fixed all their problems when they kicked out the banks:O

hatrickpatrick

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The main problem is that any kind of new party that comes on the scene will have to promise more of the same, because the troika have set out the path for the government to follow. All subsequent governments have to abide by the commitments made by the past.

If they're more or less legally bound to be honest about their intentions, that would do democracy a gigantic favour in my view.

Also the idea that FF are evil bogeymen is stupid. They did not set out for what happened to happen.

I don't believe that destroying the country was deliberate, I simply believe it was, to them, a side effect of what they really set out to do - line their own pockets and those of their friends without giving a f*ck about the rest of us.
FF's policies, cronyism, and corruption embodied a mindset which is absolutely poisonous. Do you think it's a coincidence that the top bankers were personal, social friends of Cowen & co and that they also happened to be spared any suffering for their wrongdoing while the taxpayer got left with the bill? You think it was coincidence that our ministers were playing golf and having dinner with the lot of them just weeks before issuing the bank guarantee in the middle of the night without allowing any discussion on it first? Do you imagine that it's pure chance that so many people in high positions are well known to have committed fraud and corruption and are seemingly untouchable by any arm of the law?

FF didn't set out to destroy the country, sure. They simply set out to serve a small elite in Irish society with absolutely no regard for anyone else, and that's every bit as bad.

Nabber

Iceland will never be Rosie until they hand over Bjork for crimes against music.

KyussBishop

To avoid FF gaining power again at some stage, we'd need a credible third party, which would involve a lot of money for funding (because you won't generate a successful party from grassroots alone); that's a tall order, but it's necessary.

Could do with a truly progressive party (one not to be confused in any way with the PD's), which is progressive both socially and economically; preferably with the primary goals, of rooting out and extremely harshly prosecuting crime/fraud back to and before the crisis (particularly political/financial fraud), and implementing strict economic regulations, including the provision of a public bank (so that while we're stuck in the Euro, at least profits on interest in the bank, goes to the state).

Would also want such a party to take more of a role in promoting methods of actually resolving (rather than worsening) the crisis within Europe (including promoting monetary reform), and stating what conditions need to be met for a democratic and accountable Europe (and one which can properly handle financial crisis, without having a deadlocked monetary system), where if those conditions can't be met we'd need to look at an exit from the Euro in the future (not necessarily near-future either), as otherwise we can't justify the loss of monetary sovereignty, to an economic system that will just explode on us again in the future.

That's not even the start of it either, as there is so much wrong with this country that needs to change, not least of regarding how to deal with social issues that are being worsened due to politics.

The problem is the opposition is so poor.

Labour should have stayed in opposition last time imo and they would have strengthened considerably. Instead they get 5 years in power and will be decimated next election - will they ever learn?

I don't think anyone would go in with Sinn Fein but if they were to gain alot more seats it could happen.

Would FF and FG go in together? Theres not much seperating them in political position really, both centre/centre right parties.

In summary, it's a poor and depressing choice of parties to choose from.

zega

The fianna fail we have today and for the last 20 years are so deviated from the path set out by their founders it's unreal.Sean Lemass would be spinning in his grave if he seen what haughey/ahern and cowen did.

derfderf

SamHall wrote: »

I like the way enders keeps referring to the blanket, bank guarantee, and how it was treachery to the Irish people etc etc etc.


Did he not sign off on the legislation for same while in opposition

They all signed it, apart from Labour. And their objection was that it gave too much power to the minister of finance, it wasn't because they saw the damage it could do.
So basically anyone who was a TD at the time shares responsibity.

snubbleste

The Pirate Party got three seats.
Go Icelandic voters!

It's happened in Iceland - it could happen here too
http://www.pirates.ie/

Fighting Irish

lol

mrrepublic

Fighting Irish wrote: »

lol

went to see leinster rugby at the weekend and ended up in a watering hole full of P****s that were attending the F.F. ard Fheis. from what we witnessed F.F. have not changed still flash and full of their own importance some of them were even celebrating their victory in the next general election.

Gbear

LOI Stats wrote: »

Thank Christ this thread wasn't about a volcano.

I wanted a volcano.:(

DarkJager

Anybody stupid enough to forget what FF did to this country and considering voting for them should have their vote removed. There isn't a hand big enough to deliver the facepalm this country deserves if that shower of corrupt rotten bastards ever get in to power again.

hooradiation

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/icelanders-oust-government-over-austerity-programme-1.1375471

Voters in Iceland have returned the government which ruled from 1980 right up to and including their spectacular economic meltdown.
This sent a shudder down my spine when it popped up in my news feed. If we needed any more reminding of the horrific reality that there is a possibility of Fianna Fail one day clawing its way back into power, this should serve as a kick up the ass for anyone who complacently assumed that they were finished for good. I will fully admit to being one of those naive optimists at the time of the last general election.

In my view, anyone with any shred of pride in their country needs to band together and figure out some way of making sure this absolutely does not happen. And don't get me wrong, I despise our current government as much as anyone, but if there's one thing I'm 100% positive about it's that Fianna Fail must never, ever, ever be allowed anywhere near any position of authority for as long as that organization continues to blacken our nation with its existence.

What can be done about this?

People voting in a manner you don't like can happen in Ireland?
Are you sure?
Have you checked?

That just seems so unlikely, surely people wouldn't do something you disapprove of, that wouldn't be right at all....

Once Enda Kenny switches on that charm Fianna Fail wont have a chance.

Ceiteach

People are stupid.