NCT and Car maintenance?

listermint

ScumLord wrote: »

The problem with modern cars is they're a bitch to service yourself. To change the air filter on mine you have to remove the wipers and the assembly they're attached too. They've turned an easy job into one that you require specialised tools for. Even something simple like changing the light bulbs has been made as awkward as possible.

It's not that the job is particularly hard it's just time consuming, which adds big expense to any repair work done in a garage.

On your model this is true. Not true for 'all' modern cars.

carzony

MurdyWurdy wrote: »

What's the point in getting insurance if you are fairly sure they won't pay out if you cause an accident? Surely paying 50 for an NCT is far better than getting stung if you hit someone uninsured down the line. It's just seems silly.

EDIT: just re-read post and you are waiting for a booking, so you do plan on getting the NCT. Fair enough

Well in all honesty i'd rather not nct it, It's just another bill I don't need. I just don't need the guards taking my car off me, Happened once before and I was very embarressed about it..

Please Kill Me

My OH and I are both out of work. We have three children (including a newborn) we need a car to get up and down to the school with the older lad (no buses before the smart-arses start) I service the car myself, tyres are replaced when needs be, alignment done when needs be. The car is insured as it's only €20 a month. I tax it for 3 months, let it slide for 3 months, taxed for 3 months etc. Hasn't been NCT'd in 2 years as it's a money-making scam! I've seen good, well-taken care of cars fail, and piles of shite pass. Doesn't make sense. If the cops take the car off me, I'll just get another cheap runaround. Simples.

Irishcrx

Please Kill Me wrote: »

My OH and I are both out of work. We have three children (including a newborn) we need a car to get up and down to the school with the older lad (no buses before the smart-arses start) I service the car myself, tyres are replaced when needs be, alignment done when needs be. The car is insured as it's only €20 a month. I tax it for 3 months, let it slide for 3 months, taxed for 3 months etc. Hasn't been NCT'd in 2 years as it's a money-making scam! I've seen good, well-taken care of cars fail, and piles of shite pass. Doesn't make sense. If the cops take the car off me, I'll just get another cheap runaround. Simples.

Yeah I feel similar to this , my car only cost me a couple of hundred quid and it gets me to work and back. I don't expect it to last more than another few month's , I know if I ran it through the NCT I'd end up having to spend a few hundred on it and I just can't justify spending more than it's worth on it only for it to go bang a few weeks later , it's Taxed and Insured and I've never been asked about the NCT at a checkpoint.

If it needs anything immediatly I'll change it , ie wiper blades, tyres etc. I'f the car was newer and worth a few thousand I'd NCT it and keep service history and that because I'd want to keep it in as good condition as possible to hold it's value.

Please Kill Me

Irishcrx wrote: »

Yeah I feel similar to this , my car only cost me a couple of hundred quid and it gets me to work and back. I don't expect it to last more than another few month's , I know if I ran it through the NCT I'd end up having to spend a few hundred on it and I just can't justify spending more than it's worth on it only for it to go bang a few weeks later , it's Taxed and Insured and I've never been asked about the NCT at a checkpoint.

If it needs anything immediatly I'll change it , ie wiper blades, tyres etc. I'f the car was newer and worth a few thousand I'd NCT it and keep service history and that because I'd want to keep it in as good condition as possible to hold it's value.

In fairness, I TRIED to get it NCT'd, they failed it on a bent track-rod end and sticking back brakes. I got that sorted and brought it back and they failed it on the number plate lights. The screws are rusted and rounded off so I didn't bother bringing it back if that's the "only" problem they could find with it.

Celly Smunt

Faith+1 wrote: »

I'm starting to think Advance Pitstop is taking the p*ss with me at this stage :mad:

Advance pitstop is the last place to go to get anything done.No matter what's wrong with your car they'll fond something else that's "wrong" with your car if you get me.

Faith+1

pmcmahon wrote: »

Advance pitstop is the last place to go to get anything done.No matter what's wrong with your car they'll fond something else that's "wrong" with your car if you get me.

That wasn't the case I found a few years ago but now it seems my car is falling apart with them. Can you recommend anyone? Preferably on the northside?

Sleepy

Lilliana Odd Tungsten wrote: »

A lot of problems are very difficult if not impossible to diagnose in advance like this so you won't see them added to the nct.

For instance the only way to guarantee the condition of a timing belt io to change it on schedule, no mechanic will try to judge the condition of one.

Oh, I get that but there are plenty of things that aren't checked which should be. For example, my previous car passed it's NCT despite having an oil leak. The NCT mechanic even pointed it out to me as something to get my mechanic to take a look at when it was next in for a service...

While I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to stand over a timing belt on a visual inspection, a stamped log book/receipts showing it to have been changed on schedule wouldn't be an impossible thing to require for cars above a given reg plate (i.e. let people know in advance).

I'm not arguing that an NCT should be a guarantee the car is perfect but it should tell you that there's nothing wrong with it that you'd expect any mechanic you brought along with you to look at a second hand car to notice. (a pass "with advisory" might be a useful addition here e.g. Car gets a pass with an advisory that A/C is not working / tyres are only just legal, brake pads approaching needing replacement etc.)

ScumLord

Wibbs wrote: »

Same with the electronics. A mate's car needed a fuel pump. Simple enough you'd think, but oh no, the pump is simple if pricey, the installation is simple enough too, but the pump has to be synced to the car's brain to work. Requiring main Dealer involvement(usually). You could source the part and fit it yourself, but the dealer price to sync the brain is nigh on the same price as them doing the whole job.

Had the exact same problem lately, I bought a van in that had a new fuel pump fitted outside of the dealership but we still had to bring it in to be reset. I stood at the driver door, mechanic stood at the passenger door with the laptop plugged in. Taps a few keys, tells me to turn the car off, taps a few keys, turn the car on again, taps a few keys.. Job done. It's about as complicated as updating drivers on your PC.

Celly Smunt

Faith+1 wrote: »

That wasn't the case I found a few years ago but now it seems my car is falling apart with them. Can you recommend anyone? Preferably on the northside?

I don't really know about the Northside.Perhaps the lads in the motors forum could recommend somebody who does good work

Jester252

Please Kill Me wrote: »

My OH and I are both out of work. We have three children (including a newborn) we need a car to get up and down to the school with the older lad (no buses before the smart-arses start) I service the car myself, tyres are replaced when needs be, alignment done when needs be. The car is insured as it's only €20 a month. I tax it for 3 months, let it slide for 3 months, taxed for 3 months etc. Hasn't been NCT'd in 2 years as it's a money-making scam! I've seen good, well-taken care of cars fail, and piles of shite pass. Doesn't make sense. If the cops take the car off me, I'll just get another cheap runaround. Simples.

If you get in an accident you'll be in trouble. Insurance won't pay out leaving you will a nice bill that you don't need. €55 is not a lot to pay to cover your ass.

Jester252

mathie wrote: »

Did I say the employees were ripping people off?

Then why use term like per hour and per 5 minutes :rolleyes:
Most services are price on the job done not the time taken.

ScumLord

Jester252 wrote: »

If you get in an accident you'll be in trouble. Insurance won't pay out leaving you will a nice bill that you don't need. €55 is not a lot to pay to cover your ass.

So, really he should stop paying for the insurance too?

Jester252

ScumLord wrote: »

So, really he should stop paying for the insurance too?

Not having the NCT means that the insurance won't pay out in case of an accident.
Not having insurance means a fine up to €2,000, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence, and/or a possible jail term not to mention loss of car if see by a guard.

shedweller

Ush1 wrote: »

Before you get a car, check the if there's a Haynes manual for it. You can normally know then if a service is difficult or not.

When i last looked the haynes manual was all but useless for a significant chunk of jobs on most modern cars. Lots of boxed paragraphs saying "take it to the dealer" or words to that effect.

Guy:Incognito

Sleepy wrote: »

While I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to stand over a timing belt on a visual inspection, a stamped log book/receipts showing it to have been changed on schedule wouldn't be an impossible thing to require for cars above a given reg plate (i.e. let people know in advance).
)

So now people are not allowed change their own timing belts if they want to? Qualified mechanics have to take their cars to garages and pay someone else to work on it and stamp the book?

Plus If people buying cars dont give a **** enough to look for verifiable service histories why should the government? Its no skin off their nose if you dont maintain your car and the belt snaps.

Capt'n Midnight

ScumLord wrote: »

So, really he should stop paying for the insurance too?

what'll happen is that if there is a collision then the insurance company could go after him for the money

but he won't suffer the rigours of the law otherwise,
not that those who don't have insurance fear the law enough :mad:

and not having NCT is a crap load of penalty points + fine

Wibbs

listermint wrote: »

On your model this is true. Not true for 'all' modern cars.

True enough, it most certainly varies, but it would be fair to say that there has been a move away from the home mechanic over the last decade.

Sleepy wrote: »

While I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to stand over a timing belt on a visual inspection, a stamped log book/receipts showing it to have been changed on schedule wouldn't be an impossible thing to require for cars above a given reg plate (i.e. let people know in advance).

I dunno S, that kinda thing smacks of more nannying by the state to me. Plus in order to have a stamped log book, it requires going to a garage and you just know there would be "approved" garages in such a scheme. I'm quite sure the motor industry would love it, but what about people who do their own maintenance? People who don't want to pay 150 quid for an oil change you can do in 15 mins and depending on the oil you use would cost a third of that(great sticky in the motors forum here showing you how). Buy one of those oil sucker thangs and you could change your oil in a three piece suit. I've changed cam belts(avec water pump), a turbo, a head gasket and other stuff, generally it's actually not that hard, especially with a manual like the Haynes and nowadays you can be sure there's an owners forum where some other petrolhead who really knows their shít will show you the ropes. I'm not saying everyone should do this and there's stuff like gearboxes I may as well be looking into the black hole of Calcutta, but I like having the choice.

ScumLord wrote: »

Had the exact same problem lately, I bought a van in that had a new fuel pump fitted outside of the dealership but we still had to bring it in to be reset. I stood at the driver door, mechanic stood at the passenger door with the laptop plugged in. Taps a few keys, tells me to turn the car off, taps a few keys, turn the car on again, taps a few keys.. Job done. It's about as complicated as updating drivers on your PC.

Yep and OK some systems may need to be learned into the ECU, but colour my suspicious about others.

shedweller wrote:

When i last looked the haynes manual was all but useless for a significant chunk of jobs on most modern cars. Lots of boxed paragraphs saying "take it to the dealer" or words to that effect.

I've heard similar of late too SW. I suppose it depends on the model of car. i've even seen more "you'll have to take it to the dealer" on some model specific car forums of late. IMHO there was a "sweet spot" for cars and home maintenance(and complexity/electronics) between that era of having to grease your trunnions and gap your points once a month and the era of the dealer needs to plug in a laptop. Around the 80's/90's I reckon. Again IMH I'll make a prediction that there'll be more classic cars from that kinda period around in 2050 than there will be of current potential classics.

HondaSami

Jester252 wrote: »

Not having the NCT means that the insurance won't pay out in case of an accident.
Not having insurance means a fine up to €2,000, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence, and/or a possible jail term not to mention loss of car if see by a guard.

If you have insurance they have to pay out regardless of nct AFAIK, open to correction.

Jester252

HondaSami wrote: »

If you have insurance they have to pay out regardless of nct AFAIK, open to correction.

They could use the lack of an NCT to help prove that you knew the car was not roadworthy. While the NCT is a government issue not having one could aid the proof that you knew it was not roadworthy. They will not pay out damages to you or your car if that is the case. They will pay 3rd party damages and sue you in civil court.

It safer IMO to have the NCT as a back up in these cases.

HondaSami

Jester252 wrote: »

They could use the lack of an NCT to help prove that you knew the car was not roadworthy. While the NCT is a government issue not having one could aid the proof that you knew it was not roadworthy. They will not pay out damages to you or your car if that is the case. They will pay 3rd party damages and sue you in civil court.

It safer IMO to have the NCT as a back up in these cases.

Who said the car is not roadworthy? Not having an NCT does not automatically prove your car is not roadworthy.
Your car could pass the NCT today and something could fail on it a few days later, it's the reason the NCT are not responsible if something should happen.

I agree 100% it's better to have the NCT.

woodoo

I'd be happy to hear there is mass rejection of the NCT simply because i'm not happy that 10 year old cars have to be tested every year.

Jester252

HondaSami wrote: »

Who said the car is not roadworthy? Not having an NCT does not automatically prove your car is not roadworthy.
Your car could pass the NCT today and something could fail on it a few days later, it's the reason the NCT are not responsible if something should happen.

I agree 100% it's better to have the NCT.

That is the case however the NCT does check things that are to do with needed for a car to roadworthy. They might use the lack of an NCT against you in this respect in order not to pay out. We all know how insurers don't what to pay out and they will use anything against you.

Guy:Incognito

HondaSami wrote: »

If you have insurance they have to pay out regardless of nct AFAIK, open to correction.

They have to pay out 3rd party. They could then persue you for the cost. Youll have to pay your own bills in that case

skyhighflyer

Faith+1 wrote: »

I was surprised when they told me they had to replace 3 tyres.

As long as you got them to replace the headlight fluid as well.

irish bloke

Lilliana Odd Tungsten wrote: »

I looked after my car very well. Its nct'd, I travel across the country to a specialist mechanic for servicing who is an expert on my make of car as I can trust him, car is hovered and cleaned completely inside and de-tared, washed etc outside regularly (by me with correct cloths etc). full de-taring, clay treatment and wax is penciled in for this weekend depending on the weather.

You need to get yourself a girlfriend.

Sleepy

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So now people are not allowed change their own timing belts if they want to? Qualified mechanics have to take their cars to garages and pay someone else to work on it and stamp the book?

Plus If people buying cars dont give a **** enough to look for verifiable service histories why should the government? Its no skin off their nose if you dont maintain your car and the belt snaps.

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno S, that kinda thing smacks of more nannying by the state to me. Plus in order to have a stamped log book, it requires going to a garage and you just know there would be "approved" garages in such a scheme. I'm quite sure the motor industry would love it, but what about people who do their own maintenance? People who don't want to pay 150 quid for an oil change you can do in 15 mins and depending on the oil you use would cost a third of that(great sticky in the motors forum here showing you how). Buy one of those oil sucker thangs and you could change your oil in a three piece suit. I've changed cam belts(avec water pump), a turbo, a head gasket and other stuff, generally it's actually not that hard, especially with a manual like the Haynes and nowadays you can be sure there's an owners forum where some other petrolhead who really knows their shít will show you the ropes. I'm not saying everyone should do this and there's stuff like gearboxes I may as well be looking into the black hole of Calcutta, but I like having the choice.

You both seem to have missed the word "receipts" in my post. Receipts for the parts (e.g. timing belt kit) would be proof enough of a job done for me.

I'd generally do the basic servicing myself but I'd be wary of those drainage pumps, given some of the crud you see coming out when you change the oil, I'd be concerned the suction pump would miss it. I remember seeing it on the motors forum that their use was particularly dangerous on the likes of the Saab 95.

Though, tbh Wibbs, I reckon you're right about how such an idea would be actually implemented in Ireland. It's a shame imo. It'd be good to see something that might actually encourage people to mind their cars.

Guy:Incognito

Sleepy wrote: »

You both seem to have missed the word "receipts" in my post. Receipts for the parts (e.g. timing belt kit) would be proof enough of a job done for me.

.

Receipts are pointless in a situation where your forcing people to show proof to the government. People already do things like swap parts temporarily for tests. All it means is that people will get hold of receipts to show for the test. Mechanics will have piles of receipts for all sorts of parts that they could use for "proof".testing whats in front of them on the day is all the test can do.

woodoo

irish bloke wrote: »

You need to get yourself a girlfriend.

Girlfriend or no girlfriend its a better pastime than vomiting against the wall of the local chinese takaway on a saturday night after a dozen pints

irish bloke

irish bloke wrote: »

You need to get yourself a girlfriend.

Already have one .

A few hours once a month or so to wash and clean out a car and keep it looking well is hardly over kill. I'd be disgusted to own half the cars in the country to be honest the state of them. Waxing and de-taring is a once or twice a year thing not a regular thing.

It will also make the car more appealing when it comes sale time especially when it's a performance model, people who buy them appreciate a well kept car.

woodoo wrote: »

Girlfriend or no girlfriend its a better pastime than vomiting against the wall of the local chinese takaway on a saturday night after a dozen pints

I'll Probably spend as much time on the beer at the weekend as working on the car

Faith+1

skyhighflyer wrote: »

As long as you got them to replace the headlight fluid as well.

Absolutely! They also said my steering wheel was leaking oil so I need to get a new one!:p

shedweller

Lilliana Odd Tungsten wrote: »

Already have one .

A few hours once a month or so to wash and clean out a car and keep it looking well is hardly over kill. I'd be disgusted to own half the cars in the country to be honest the state of them. Waxing and de-taring is a once or twice a year thing not a regular thing.

It will also make the car more appealing when it comes sale time especially when it's a performance model, people who buy them appreciate a well kept car.



I'll Probably spend as much time on the beer at the weekend as working on the car

Fair play, you make a good point. Just wait till the kids come along and you'll be vacumning once a week and clay barring out handlebar, buggy and shopping trolley marks! Well, maybe you wont but theres a good chance you will.
I could wash and wax my car every second day for most of the year and it would still look grubby. As for kids damaging it? I could hoist it 100 feet in the air on a crane and they would still find ways to scratch it!
There came a point...

turbostan

Wibbs wrote: »

Well duuuuh, though I still call ballsology. I know quite a bit about costs and unless the OP is driving some high end motor with equally high end parts prices at a main dealer, or the "service" included a clutch or cam belt/chain, an otherwise standard service including brakes at 700 quid is more than a tad steep, especially if they've not spotted a shagged CV boot. Then again I've seen chancers charge near 200 quid for an oil change so...

Depends on what the definition of roadworthy is. A dead catalytic convertor could cost that to replace, especially at main stealer prices and that would have absolutely zero effect on safety

Funny how I've gone through umpteen Garda checkpoints, didn't even have an old one displayed and only once was it even commented upon. They may be changing, but for a very long time it was clearly of very low priority as my experience isn't unusual.

+1 A knackered CV joint can go on for ages grinding and knocking as it goes, but it's a helluva lot cheaper to replace the CV boot cover than having to replace the joint/entire shaft itself. Then again cheap appears to be relative considering the prices the OP's garage seems to be charging.

Firstly its a rubber dust cover that he failed on, so that's otherwise known as a drop link rubber fairer, not a CV boot..
Handist thing is just to replace the drop link, not a big or expensive job..
I do think its a harsh retest though, would be fairly easy to spot a shiny new link on most cars by simply turning the wheels and therefore not requiring the use of a test lane.
It could go through on a visual retest then.

Thatnastyboy

turbostan wrote: »

Firstly its a rubber dust cover that he failed on, so that's otherwise known as a drop link rubber fairer, not a CV boot..
Handist thing is just to replace the drop link, not a big or expensive job..
I do think its a harsh retest though, would be fairly easy to spot a shiny new link on most cars by simply turning the wheels and therefore not requiring the use of a test lane.
It could go through on a visual retest then.

Ive never heard of a drop link rubber fairer, you're speaking of a drop link, or anti roll bar link, or the bushes on either end of said drop link.

TBH id say it was a cv boot, as they are in essence, a dust jacket, a drop link has no "jacket" as such, unless you count the bushes as jackets.... and you cannot replace the bushes on them, and if you could it would be silly as drop links cost pennies for most cars.

If he failed on a drop link it would have been down as "anti roll bar link" or "sway bar link" or something of that effect.

/

shedweller

shedweller wrote: »

Fair play, you make a good point. Just wait till the kids come along and you'll be vacumning once a week and clay barring out handlebar, buggy and shopping trolley marks! Well, maybe you wont but theres a good chance you will.
I could wash and wax my car every second day for most of the year and it would still look grubby. As for kids damaging it? I could hoist it 100 feet in the air on a crane and they would still find ways to scratch it!
There came a point...

I would hope to have a second car/suv for that sort of work when the time comes, still kept well but not as bothered about it as I would with which ever car I have for myself as the chances are it wouldn't be practical enough anyway.

turbostan

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

Ive never heard of a drop link rubber fairer, you're speaking of a drop link, or anti roll bar link, or the bushes on either end of said drop link.

TBH id say it was a cv boot, as they are in essence, a dust jacket, a drop link has no "jacket" as such, unless you count the bushes as jackets.... and you cannot replace the bushes on them, and if you could it would be silly as drop links cost pennies for most cars.

If he failed on a drop link it would have been down as "anti roll bar link" or "sway bar link" or something of that effect.

/

Sorry dunno how that word "fairer" appeared on my post, must be the dreaded predictive text, twas meant to read "gaiter"!!
Anyway, the little rubber dust cover on the end joints of the links ARE fails if they are torn or damaged in any way.
These can actually be replaced on their own without replacing the complete link but as you rightly pointed out the links themselves cost very little anyway so its hardly worth the hassle.

Capt'n Midnight

woodoo wrote: »

I'd be happy to hear there is mass rejection of the NCT simply because i'm not happy that 10 year old cars have to be tested every year.

Did you see the stuff that was on the roads before the NCT ?

Wobbly kangaroo bars held on with bailing twine

Head lights casting a beam into the sky at 45 degrees

Having to use a seat belt because the seat kept tilting forward upon braking

Holes in the floor were barely remarkable

and it was worse down the country

Busiest time for the fire brigade with people torching cars to get the insurance on something that couldn't possibly pass


Annual is a bit much , bi annual was better

what would cause a lot of rows and confrontation would be a points system where if you car got a high enough score it could get two years. But that would just lead to agro on all the people having to retest next year on all the warnings

mathie

Jester252 wrote: »

Then why use term like per hour and per 5 minutes :rolleyes:
Most services are price on the job done not the time taken.

Who sets those prices?
:rolleyes:

Wibbs

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd generally do the basic servicing myself but I'd be wary of those drainage pumps, given some of the crud you see coming out when you change the oil, I'd be concerned the suction pump would miss it. I remember seeing it on the motors forum that their use was particularly dangerous on the likes of the Saab 95.

I'm sure there are applications where it would be a bad plan alright. I change my oil a lot compared to most, so I don't see crud(TBH S I'd be :eek: if I did). I will do the standard sump plug out job every three changes(if nothing else cos I want to see if any metal shavings have shown up on the magnetic sump plug). I've compared the amount of oil I get out using both methods and on my engine and by my measurements the top down drainage pump gets more of the old oil out than the sump plug method. Being anal about such things, once after doing the sump plug way I left it draining for nigh on an hour. Then I stuck the oul pump nozzle in and it sucked more used oil out. I'd reckon around a couple of eggcups worth. I suppose it depends on the sump design and where the plug is.

Though, tbh Wibbs, I reckon you're right about how such an idea would be actually implemented in Ireland. It's a shame imo. It'd be good to see something that might actually encourage people to mind their cars

+1

ScumLord

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Did you see the stuff that was on the roads before the NCT ?

You can still see those cars on the road in other countries. I couldn't get over the bangers I saw in Vegas Parked at the lights you'd see Aston Martins next to an old banger spewing smoke and even doing the back fires.

Sleepy

Then you go to the continent and you see loads of cars from the same era that are still in perfect nick. Real evidence of how long a car can last when it's maintained properly!