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Krusty_Clown

ultrapercy wrote: »

44 laps of Beleek cinder track

That must have been pretty mind-numbing. Did 32 laps of my local cinder track during the week, but at least the boredom was punctured by 30 second recoveries (still needed some tunes to keep me going). After that session, 26 miles at marathon pace will almost feel like a relief. Looks like you're in top shape.

ultrapercy

TRR wrote: »

Not so fast ultrapercy. You can't be making comments like that and expect to get away with it. We want to see garmin traces, satellite images of the track and GPS coordinates.

I'm on the way to Beleek as we speak with my walking metre wheel, measuring tape and 1980s school style wooden ruler. I'm going to bring ultraman1 as an official AAI measurer (he may not be reliable however, he has measured Morton stadium track anywhere between 380-450 metres in the past ) I'm also going to print out all 2,813 posts from the garmin megathread as reference material.

Put the kettle on, the cavalry are a coming

Wooden ruler is no good, has to be steel too much room for play in wood. Any decent course measurer will tell you that. Where to find one of them tho....?

TRR

ultrapercy wrote: »

Wooden ruler is no good, has to be steel too much room for play in wood. Any decent course measurer will tell you that. Where to find one of them tho....?

Mr Cronin's metalwork shop in my old secondary school. I'm on it

TRR

UP, satellite images confirm track is long. There is also a Boeing 777 parked in a field behind the track. Might be an idea to give the Gardai a call but don't say anything on te phone that could incriminate you

ultrapercy

Sat 29

2.3 mi w/up 17:21(7:31p)

3.10 miles 16:36(5:21p) 10 x 100m hills 3.10 miles 16:46(5:23p)

1.45 mi c/dn 11:16, 12 miles total

ultrapercy

Sun 30

10.5 miles 1:15:47(7:13p) pre breakfast
45 mins core/strength

Mon 31

3.2 miles w/up 23:34(7:22p)
5x 800m(10kp) 1mile(mar p) no recovery between
1.5 mi c/n 11:40(7:47p)
very windy on tack so 800 times were slow 2:40ish mp miles were ok tho.

Tue 1st April

7.4 miles easy no time
1 hr core/strength

Wed 2

3.9 miles27:53(7:07p)
30 mins strength

Thu 3

2.1 mi w/up 16:02(7:33p)

3 miles progressive 16:21(5:34 5:27 5:18) 3 min jog 3x 2k 6:35 6:37 6:44 1 lap jog recoveries. ease off on the last 2k just not to over cook things.

2.1 mi c/n 16:35(7:58)

ultrapercy

Fri 5

Restday

Sat 6

am 6 miles 41:30
pm 1.2 miles w/up on treadmill
40 mins strength/core

Sun 7

1.8 miles w/up 13:27(7:27p)
9.23 miles 51:47 (5:38p) first 7 miles at MP 5:40ish last 2 miles at 5:25
1.5 miles c/dn 10:58(7:21p)

ecoli

Best of luck at the weekend J. Training has gone well and I reckon that sub 2.30 is yours for the taking

drquirky

Good luck at the weekend UP. Go get that sub 2:30.

T runner

Best of luck UltraPercy. Fastest marathon course in the world in good conditions. This is it. Be very positive.

Get into that big group gunning for sub 2:30, they'll give you a lift as far as the park in good shape, that's all you'll need to bring it home on that beautiful, smooth fast road.

snailsong

Good luck at the weekend, J. Hope you'll be wearing the Mayo A.C vest.

pconn062

Good luck UP.

Krusty_Clown

Very best of luck on Sunday John. If there's any time when 'what you get out' is equivalent to 'what you put in', then you're due a fantastic race and nothing will stop you from getting the time that's due.

tunguska

Good luck tomorrow JB. I really like how you go about your business, you dont feel the need to draw attention to yourself and let the world know about the races you've won or the shape your in, you just do it and keep it to yourself. I know people who'll come 500th in a race and will be all over facebook and twitter talking themselves up. So Fair play. If they handed out sub 2:30s for humility and modesty you'd have had yours years ago.

KielyUnusual

Agree with all the sentiments above. Was really gunning for you in Dublin last year and will be even more so tomorrow. Here's to everything going to plan on the day.

tunguska

Hard luck JB, Good effort.

ultrapercy

tunguska wrote: »

Hard luck JB, Good effort.

Thanks Eoin it was a good effort but I was never on the required pace. Even at 5k I was 10 secs out. Im trying very hard to stay positive and avoid the depression and naval gazing that can sometimes follow these failures. It was my best ever marathon and I was strong to the finish but 4 secs a mile off the pace.If it had been 50k Id have gone close to 3 hours thats how strong I felt, so why I couldnt find those seconds I dont know.Its a tough game and you get nothing for free. I feel I put in a massive winter and came out with just 55 sec pb which doesnt seem like much reward for so much work but its something I suppose. I was convinced that if I didnt go sub 2:30 this time I was going to give up the chase but Im already thinking about another go. Thats the nature of the torture, nothing to celebrate but just enough to keep me hanging on.Rotterdam is a super event and a very fast course, it really is worth some time compared with Dublin. If your aiming for a fast race Id wholeheartedly recommend it.

tunguska

ultrapercy wrote: »

Thanks Eoin it was a good effort but I was never on the required pace. Even at 5k I was 10 secs out. Im trying very hard to stay positive and avoid the depression and naval gazing that can sometimes follow these failures. It was my best ever marathon and I was strong to the finish but 4 secs a mile off the pace.If it had been 50k Id have gone close to 3 hours thats how strong I felt, so why I couldnt find those seconds I dont know.Its a tough game and you get nothing for free. I feel I put in a massive winter and came out with just 55 sec pb which doesnt seem like much reward for so much work but its something I suppose. I was convinced that if I didnt go sub 2:30 this time I was going to give up the chase but Im already thinking about another go. Thats the nature of the torture, nothing to celebrate but just enough to keep me hanging on.Rotterdam is a super event and a very fast course, it really is worth some time compared with Dublin. If your aiming for a fast race Id wholeheartedly recommend it.

Fair play John, thats a very honest assessment. Can I say one thing though, and I know its very raw at the moment, but reading over your log I was concerned at some of the sessions you were putting in so close to the day. Look I could be way off and you know your training better than anybody, so what do you think, do you think you might've overcooked things or are you happy enough with how you prepared?
I definitely think its there and with dublin you're on home turf(so to speak) plus you know that course and how to get the best out of it. I mean if you chilled out for a few weeks now and then gradually got stuck into a program you'd have a massive base to work off.

ultrapercy

tunguska wrote: »

Fair play John, thats a very honest assessment. Can I say one thing though, and I know its very raw at the moment, but reading over your log I was concerned at some of the sessions you were putting in so close to the day. Look I could be way off and you know your training better than anybody, so what do you think, do you think you might've overcooked things or are you happy enough with how you prepared?
I definitely think its there and with dublin you're on home turf(so to speak) plus you know that course and how to get the best out of it. I mean if you chilled out for a few weeks now and then gradually got stuck into a program you'd have a massive base to work off.

I didnt feel overcooked at all and I felt physically good before and during the race. I think its a mental block. I kept losing the 2.30 group and then pulling them back and losing them again before the group fell away and I was left to run on and pick up others who had blown up. Maybe the big events are not for me, I tend to run better when there is a prize at stake. Im a competitor by nature and big races feel more like time trials to me than races.Maybe a race like Cork would find that edge in me that the big races dont seem to bring out. Im always gratefull for feedback tho and Il think on what you mentioned because a log like this should serve that purpose otherwise its just fishing for praise.

tunguska

ultrapercy wrote: »

I didnt feel overcooked at all and I felt physically good before and during the race. I think its a mental block. I kept losing the 2.30 group and then pulling them back and losing them again before the group fell away and I was left to run on and pick up others who had blown up. Maybe the big events are not for me, I tend to run better when there is a prize at stake. Im a competitor by nature and big races feel more like time trials to me than races.Maybe a race like Cork would find that edge in me that the big races dont seem to bring out. Im always gratefull for feedback tho and Il think on what you mentioned because a log like this should serve that purpose otherwise its just fishing for praise.

Cool. Im reading a book at the moment, its an oldie but theres some timeless stuff in there. You probably have read it before, but if you havent, Its called Think and grow rich - Napoleon Hill. You might wonder what the hell that has to do with running, nothing specifically, but its about getting knocked down and pulling yourself back up again and no matter what just keeping it going. Edison had about 10,000 tries at the lightbulb before he nailed it. You'll get there, you just gotta keep at it doggedly and not allow doubts to creep in no matter how many times you fail.
Im probably doing dublin and I'll be going for sub 2:30 so maybe we can work together on the day, even be gay and hold hands at the finish.

barryoneill50

ultrapercy wrote: »

I didnt feel overcooked at all and I felt physically good before and during the race. I think its a mental block. I kept losing the 2.30 group and then pulling them back and losing them again before the group fell away and I was left to run on and pick up others who had blown up. Maybe the big events are not for me, I tend to run better when there is a prize at stake. Im a competitor by nature and big races feel more like time trials to me than races.Maybe a race like Cork would find that edge in me that the big races dont seem to bring out. Im always gratefull for feedback tho and Il think on what you mentioned because a log like this should serve that purpose otherwise its just fishing for praise.

If you don't mind me giving a humble/unqualified opinion, maybe if you targeted a marathon like longford. It would bring out your competitive edge as you would be in with a good chance of a very high finish, maybe an outside chance of a win! Apparently it's a fast course and it would fit in time wise. 3 weeks chilling and straight into a 16 week programme. But hey, what the hell do I know:rolleyes:

TRR

Well done again. I love the fact you are already willing to have another go at it and you're dead right. Great point about the time trial element of the marathon. I'd agree with you, my best races happen when I'm not looking at the watch at all but the marathon is a mean git and you really have to keep an eye on the pace early on so you don't blow it later on. It's a bit of a catch 22. Best marathon I've ever run, I ended up in basically a 10k race to the finish with a 5 foot French woman With regards to trying to add a competitive element to a big city marathon, would you consider really targeting a gold medal in AAI master champs in Dublin marathon. Set out to win it. With 3 miles to go you would have to be on your toes to either pass people of stay ahead of others, just a thought.

Couple of questions about Rotterdam, how did you find the travel element and is there a 2.30 pace group or did that just come together of its own accord?

tunguska wrote: »

Im probably doing dublin and I'll be going for sub 2:30 so maybe we can work together on the day, even be gay and hold hands at the finish.

Are you still running Frankfurt as well? By the way Eoin all this talk of holding hands and your post about Pirlo on Facebook has me thinking you are spending too much time in sausagefest jacuzzis

ecoli

Hard luck on the effort J. Looking across the board one thing I noticed in Rotterdam compared to other marathons is usually across the board there are the few "overachievers" who blow their target time out of the water but doesn't seem to be any here. Was there any external factors which could have played an underlying role?

Glad to see you are as hungry as ever for the sub 2.30 though and personally I think its only a matter of time before things click in to place for you as long as you manage to keep the consistent hard work going (after you have mentally and physically recovered of course)

tunguska

TRR wrote: »

Are you still running Frankfurt as well? By the way Eoin all this talk of holding hands and your post about Pirlo on Facebook has me thinking you are spending too much time in sausagefest jacuzzis

Im not sure about Frankfurt, I 'd like to do it but Im lazy when it comes to travelling so that could be the deciding factor. Plus Tomo is doing dublin so we're gonna have a savage team for that. ACtually pretty much everyone I know is doing dublin so it should be a great day.
Yeah bit of a man crush on Pirlo alright, but I mean who wouldnt though, he looks like an 80s porn star and just doesnt give a fcuk about anything other than sleep and the playstation. Legend.

ultrapercy

barryoneill50 wrote: »

If you don't mind me giving a humble/unqualified opinion, maybe if you targeted a marathon like longford. It would bring out your competitive edge as you would be in with a good chance of a very high finish, maybe an outside chance of a win! Apparently it's a fast course and it would fit in time wise. 3 weeks chilling and straight into a 16 week programme. But hey, what the hell do I know:rolleyes:

I was 4th in Longford in 05 and I won it in 06 so your "humble/unqualified" opinion may be very astute. The standard has risen in the interm but races like that is where I feel I get the best out of myself. Thanks for your input, we all put in the miles and feel the same pain everyones opinion is valid.

cgooner

Congrats on a great time ultrapercy.....most of us here can only dream of running those times and enjoy getting insight into the training required.

I no that's no consolation for u though since you know the time and effort put in. I missed out myself and was sickened not to get sub 2.45.......came in at 2.45:14, still a 2 min pb so i wont hang up the trainers just yet!!

There was a few of us in the pub afterwards talking about Dublin already and i thought we were getting ahead of ourselves but thats just the running drug!! Enjoyed your blog and look forward to following your training when you go sub 2.30 in Dublin!!

Krusty_Clown

Hi John, a really great result, despite the errant 116 seconds (not long enough to make a cup of tea). You're probably not interested in delving into it too deeply right now, but any thoughts on how you'd compare your Bohermeen performance to your Rotterdam performance? Your Bohermeen time would certainly indicate that a sub 2:30 is definitely within your realm, so which do you feel was the better performance? Which did you have to work harder for? Do you think you're a better half marathon runner than a marathon runner, or do you just need to tweak your training to get the best out of your system over the full distance? It's a time to be massively proud of, and no doubt that time goal will happen (perhaps like Steve Way; when you're not really expecting it, rather than setting out to achieve it).

snailsong

Well done, John. After however many years of running and training that's the fastest you've ever covered 26.2. About 4 minutes faster than DCM last year iirc. Not a failure by any measure. I'm sure the 2:30 can't be far away. Congratulations.

T runner

Very strong run and very hard luck with the time goal. It sounds that your marathon pace was just slightly off that 2:30 group. So close. Nothing you can do, if the effort to stay with them is above marathon effort you've no choice but to let them go, which means youre running on your own and losing the draft and pacing benefits. Again, nothing you can do, you run above marathon pace, you end up with 2:35 in the end. That's why I think you were a lot closer to it than 1 minute 50 and you ran bravely to get so close without the group.


Krusty was right to mention Steve way. He did ultra training, ran a 50 miler over big hills 2 weeks before, and ran London on spec and achieved a 3.5 minute breakthrough (2:16) after several marathons around 2:20. http://www.steveway.co.uk/

I remember seeing in your Log that you're previous PB was off Ultra training too. Maybe there's something in your training logs for the ultra stuff that could help you again. But maybe not, you'll know better than anyone what works or not.

Starngely when I ran Rotterdam, I had that same sensation as you did: that I was in great 50k shape....very strong but couldn't push MP any faster...I thought it was sharpness...but I ran well enough. I still haven't figured out why so take any of the above "advice" with a huge pinch of salt.

Ive no doubt you'll break 2:30 significantly in your next one. You have the time against the ropes! the next one will be the knock out blow!

Good luck in the next venture. Great reading your log.

ultrapercy

T runner wrote: »

Very strong run and very hard luck with the time goal. It sounds that your marathon pace was just slightly off that 2:30 group. So close. Nothing you can do, if the effort to stay with them is above marathon effort you've no choice but to let them go, which means youre running on your own and losing the draft and pacing benefits. Again, nothing you can do, you run above marathon pace, you end up with 2:35 in the end. That's why I think you were a lot closer to it than 1 minute 50 and you ran bravely to get so close without the group.


Krusty was right to mention Steve way. He did ultra training, ran a 50 miler over big hills 2 weeks before, and ran London on spec and achieved a 3.5 minute breakthrough (2:16) after several marathons around 2:20. http://www.steveway.co.uk/

I remember seeing in your Log that you're previous PB was off Ultra training too. Maybe there's something in your training logs for the ultra stuff that could help you again. But maybe not, you'll know better than anyone what works or not.

Starngely when I ran Rotterdam, I had that same sensation as you did: that I was in great 50k shape....very strong but couldn't push MP any faster...I thought it was sharpness...but I ran well enough. I still haven't figured out why so take any of the above "advice" with a huge pinch of salt.

Ive no doubt you'll break 2:30 significantly in your next one. You have the time against the ropes! the next one will be the knock out blow!

Good luck in the next venture. Great reading your log.

I have to say I built my race around your course advice. I held as steady as possible untill the park at 30k then gave it welly. That 5k between 30 and 35 is possibly the fastest section of road Ive ever ran on. A strong head wind between 35 and 40 slowed everyone a bit I think, I lost 45 seconds off much the same effort. This was the first marathon where I worked a specific neutrition plan (a gel at 10k 20k 30k and 35k with the on course drink at the 5ks inbetween) and it worked well so thats a positive for next time, see I am trying hard. Thanks for the info at any rate T Runner it really was helpfull. As regards Krustys question the strange thing is I beat everyone in that 2:30 group and many more. I didnt lose a place after 10 miles and I pulled in about 30, so in that respect it was probably a good race but is coloured by my failure to hit the desierd pace. I think Bohermeen was a better race however and I may be better over HM than the full. Judging by others results eg TRR performed relatively better in his marathon than I did in mine compared with Bohermeen (and massive fair dues to him) others did likewise Neil Callaghan was actually closer to me in the full than he was in the half, he ran a cracker too.So this is all fuel for thought for me.Thanks to you all for your encouragement and advice etc it means a lot. Next time...