Tri An Mhi CXIII Middle Distance Triathlon - likely to happen?

tunney

Cold out there today #justSayingLike

sconhome

tunney wrote: »

Cold out there today #justSayingLike

Us lads with bigger 'bones' don't notice the cold so much.

RacoonQueen

tunney wrote: »

Cold out there today #justSayingLike

Yep, was just talking about this today. Weather has turned cold again and it's even put the heating back on cold.

The Irish sea was OK on Monday. Though I wasn't in it for 40 minutes and it was warm enough in general.

tunney

Apt http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/05/news/ironman-announces-swimstart-initiative-in-north-america_75537

New WTC policy in NA IMs and HIMs.

Under 11 degrees and the swim aint happening

#JustSaying

Fazz

tunney wrote: »

Apt http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/05/news/ironman-announces-swimstart-initiative-in-north-america_75537

New WTC policy in NA IMs and HIMs.

Under 11 degrees and the swim aint happening

#JustSaying

thats great but has sweet f a to do with Tri an Mhi seeing as its not a WTC ran triathlon ;-)
(Just saying... )

The water has warmed up, anyone that's been in the sea over the last few weeks knows that and its fine to swim in now.

Tunney - its looking like you've quite the negative agenda here and aren't even racing.
Trying to do non fish a favour or just afraid of a bit of cold water yourself? :-)

The organisers will call it on the day and only if its safe to do so.
I think it is personally and I've been in the water a few times in recent weeks - I was hesitant at start but now it has genuinely warmed to an acceptable coldness.

Its Ireland for gods sake, there are 50+ year olds who swim in the sea with no wetsuits everytime I jump in.

No complaining from them and if it really wasnt safe they'd have all caught pneumonia by now.

Triathletes already have a bad enough name let's not make it any worse!
There is research that cold water and conditions help strengthen immune systems and health.

Enough with the cold negative crap.
If the swim happens great, if not so be it.

tunney

Fazz wrote: »

thats great but has sweet f a to do with Tri an Mhi seeing as its not a WTC ran triathlon ;-)
(Just saying... )

And a bite.....

Fazz wrote: »

The water has warmed up, anyone that's been in the sea over the last few weeks knows that and its fine to swim in now.

And this race is in the sea. right???

Fazz wrote: »

Tunney - its looking like you've quite the negative agenda here and aren't even racing.

Nope started out as an honest query as some computer illiterate friends had concerns. The official response made me laugh and as most know nothing I like more than winding people up.

Fazz wrote: »

Trying to do non fish a favour or just afraid of a bit of cold water yourself? :-)

I don't need a wetsuit these days, black me black and stick an Orca logo on my chest and away I go. Cold is not going to affect me these days!

Fazz wrote: »

The organisers will call it on the day and only if its safe to do so.
I think it is personally and I've been in the water a few times in recent weeks - I was hesitant at start but now it has genuinely warmed to an acceptable coldness.

Good on you. From what I gather this race is going ahead regardless. To be honest it won't bother me if I was doing it what the temperature was.

Fazz wrote: »

Its Ireland for gods sake, there are 50+ year olds who swim in the sea with no wetsuits everytime I jump in.

Then lets change the rules - the point in having rules and not adhering to them?

Fazz wrote: »

No complaining from them and if it really wasnt safe they'd have all caught pneumonia by now.

Triathletes already have a bad enough name let's not make it any worse!
There is research that cold water and conditions help strengthen immune systems and health.

Enough with the cold negative crap.
If the swim happens great, if not so be it.

I don't think that there is anything inherently dangerous about experience open water swimmers swimming in cold water. Be they triathletes or not. However a good proportion of those lining up will not be experience open water swimmers. Some I venture a guess will barely be able to swim.

Cold negative crap??

As I said this started out as an honest query as others didn't see (and I still don't) see any way to reconcile the rule book with what some genuinely fear the water temperatures will be. There was no information forthcoming from the organisers so the thread started. The organisers official response, rather than acknowledging the information void attacked the messenger rather than addressing the query. So yes I wound things up from there.

littlemsfickle

Fazz wrote: »

thats great but has sweet f a to do with Tri an Mhi seeing as its not a WTC ran triathlon ;-)
(Just saying... )

The water has warmed up, anyone that's been in the sea over the last few weeks knows that and its fine to swim in now.

Tunney - its looking like you've quite the negative agenda here and aren't even racing.
Trying to do non fish a favour or just afraid of a bit of cold water yourself? :-)

The organisers will call it on the day and only if its safe to do so.
I think it is personally and I've been in the water a few times in recent weeks - I was hesitant at start but now it has genuinely warmed to an acceptable coldness.

Its Ireland for gods sake, there are 50+ year olds who swim in the sea with no wetsuits everytime I jump in.

No complaining from them and if it really wasnt safe they'd have all caught pneumonia by now.

Triathletes already have a bad enough name let's not make it any worse!
There is research that cold water and conditions help strengthen immune systems and health.

Enough with the cold negative crap.
If the swim happens great, if not so be it.

I'm not afraid of cold water - you get a shock hopping in but then you adjust. The problem I find, is when you get out. I went down to the lake last week and was fine while in swimming but afterwards was shivering for the next hour. Add to this spending the best part of the next three hours on a bike in a wet tri suit where you're upper body doesn't move at all...I don't think it's laughable to be a bit concerned.

sconhome

There was an event in Galway that got absolutely lambasted over the lack of communication from the organisers. Due to other factors it is no more, but the writing was on the wall as numbers were down.

Something similar is going on here.

It is not good enough to say 'I've been in and its fine'.

Rules are rules, for safety, everyone's safety. With deaths occuring in triathlon, particularily in the swim leg are organisers going to play with fire and hush up the facts of the water temperature just to keep the masses happy?

I hope not.

The organisers need to be vocal, let people know what the Plan B and C are.

They've been slow to respond to queries on Facebook (which seems to be the preferred method of contact for most). Despite saying the water temperature was being tested last weekend, no updates.

Now, knowing lake waters this means nothing. A week of rain and the temps will drop 2 degrees possibly more as fresh water springs into the lakes. On the other hand a week of sun and it can rise 2 degrees.

I'm doing it and I've swam in the open water. Get a pissy wet day and the cold will seep through. Get a sunny day and the cold from the swim will ease off on the bike.

Its going to be a decision on the day, but people still need reassurance in the weeks leading up to the event.

PGF

No decision can be made on the water temp until race day. What exactly are people asking on Facebook? What action will they take based on the response? Pull out? Prepare for the worst and hope for the best...

peter kern

where their is problems their is solutions some people look at the problems some go out and find solutions how to keep warm .

RacoonQueen

PGF wrote: »

No decision can be made on the water temp until race day. What exactly are people asking on Facebook? What action will they take based on the response? Pull out? Prepare for the worst and hope for the best...

I think people would like it to be acknowledged that there is a chance of the swim either not going ahead or being shortened and to have an idea of what the plan B is...

PGF

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I think people would like it to be acknowledged that there is a chance of the swim either not going ahead or being shortened and to have an idea of what the plan B is...

Do you expect that from every triathlon you take part in? By that I mean do people query every race organizer to see what the contingency plans are? I would expect everyone to realize that it might be cold and that you'll have to be prepared for that. Some people probably won't be. (They're probably the same people who won't be prepared for open water swimming).

PGF

I was actually at Lough Lene on Monday. There was a guy in swimming for half an hour. Didn't get talking to him but he didn't seem to have any problems. Didn't get in myself as I was there to check out the bike course.

tunney

PGF wrote: »

Do you expect that from every triathlon you take part in?

I would expect every triathlon I do where there is a known safety concern to preemptively address concerns. In a number of ways - acknowledge of the concern, communication of the present state with respect to the concern (be that water quality or water temperature), and communication of the contingency plan.

In this case this whole thread could have been avoided if the following was posted somewhere:
a) We (the organisers) are aware that water temperatures this year are 6-7 degrees below their norm for this time of year
b) We are monitoring the water temperature, it is presently x degrees. This is y less than the minimum 11 degrees it needs to be but we are hopeful with two weeks of reasonable weather the temperature will increase to the minimum
c) In the event that it does not increase the format for the race will be 10km run/90km run/21km run (or whatever)

peter kern

amphkingwest wrote: »

There was an event in Galway that got absolutely lambasted over the lack of communication from the organisers. Due to other factors it is no more, but the writing was on the wall as numbers were down.

Something similar is going on here.

It is not good enough to say 'I've been in and its fine'.

Rules are rules, for safety, everyone's safety. With deaths occuring in triathlon, particularily in the swim leg are organisers going to play with fire and hush up the facts of the water temperature just to keep the masses happy?

I hope not.

The organisers need to be vocal, let people know what the Plan B and C are.

They've been slow to respond to queries on Facebook (which seems to be the preferred method of contact for most). Despite saying the water temperature was being tested last weekend, no updates.

Now, knowing lake waters this means nothing. A week of rain and the temps will drop 2 degrees possibly more as fresh water springs into the lakes. On the other hand a week of sun and it can rise 2 degrees.

I'm doing it and I've swam in the open water. Get a pissy wet day and the cold will seep through. Get a sunny day and the cold from the swim will ease off on the bike.

Its going to be a decision on the day, but people still need reassurance in the weeks leading up to the event.

I think you are right if triathlon was a soft sport for fragile people than we need to hold hands of everybody and give them reasurances, but this is very contratictive with the Ironman image we try to sell.... where triathletes are really tough people who are faced by nothing and can deal with everything.

This is the national championchips and not a beginner race every body racing their should be experienced and the ones that are not should not do an half in May.

I think you are aware that the decison is not made by the race director its made with saftey officialls ( who have guidlines to follow) - and you know when they will meassure the water temperature ...... on race day .

What is so difficult to bring two pairs of runners with you, and your wetsuit. especially when you darm well know how much a rainy day can change the situation. I am not interested in the plan B I dodnt care if they go straight on the bike or run 1 3 5 km, I prepare 100% that my clients can have the best swim. and all the rest is noise, of which we have to much in triathlon ( and those peole that worry too much what will happen in my mind wont have a good race). I see an 80% chance that some form of swim will happen and we do enough brick sessions to be prepared for the other scenario too.
so where is the issue here .
Just be ready to race and be prepeared for everything. Everybody will do the same race .
be ready for a 1900m swim a 1500m swim a 1 k swim a 750 swim
be ready for a bike tt start be ready for a 1 k run a 3 run a 5 k run and even for a 10,5 k run before the bike and you covered all the boxes that could happen and lets face it.

the race organicer has more boats than any other race I have seen ( maybe with the exemption of the 3 D aquathons that were held a few years ago) so they are doing a fantatic job in terms of providing saftey for the race.


ps water might be 1.5 degree colder than last year but certainly not 6-7.
what we "tough" triathletes always forget is how much the open water swimmer laugh at us for being such wussies and use a wetusit . Swiming the channel with out wetsuit even when you are fat is a really tough test.

sconhome

PGF wrote: »

I was actually at Lough Lene on Monday. There was a guy in swimming for half an hour. Didn't get talking to him but he didn't seem to have any problems. Didn't get in myself as I was there to check out the bike course.

TBH this means nothing in terms of the context of the triathlon.

I'm old school triathlon. I'm doing it to challenge myself, to better myself if I can.

If I fail in the swim, I wasn't prepared.
If the conditions are too rough, I wasn't prepared.
If I miss a cut off, I didn't train enough.

Tough titty Sean, HTFU.

Others may not share this mentality and turn up under prepared and under trained for events. Possibly stretching themselves too thin in terms of over reaching abilities too quickly.

However, it is part of an event organisers role to communicate with people no matter how trivial, inane, repetitive or naive it may be.

Nobody is attacking the event or event organisers yet the responses come across as very defensive. People have asked what is the water temperature, people have been in the lake, a simple 'its 8 degrees' or '10 degrees' answers that question.

Yes, people will then discuss 'it'll never warm up in time', but that opens discussion rather than speculation and negativity.

Peter - I'm ready to race this and any race whatever is thrown in front of me. I also have thermal wear for under the wetsuit, just in case.

Unregistered.

How will the number of boats affect the decision? Where in the rules does it say that you can swim in sub 11 degree water temp if you have X number of boats.

It really doesn't matter how many people you see swimming in freezing water for any length of time. It doesn't matter how hard you are either. When there is a chance that the water will be too cold then some people may want to prepare for the alternative and give themselves a competitive advantage should it be a run-bike-run or whatever.

griffin100

tunney wrote: »

Nope started out as an honest query as some computer illiterate friends had concerns.

I assume you entered them online as well then if they are that computer illiterate?

Jesus lads look at who the OP is - don't feed the troll

tunney

griffin100 wrote: »

I assume you entered them online as well then if they are that computer illiterate?

Jesus lads look at who the OP is - don't feed the troll

LOL.

Yes since race entries (and TI membership) moved online I get phone calls saying "Dave enter us in....", "Dave will you renew my TI membership....". I've no problems doing it. I may however no longer post to find out information about concerns they have about races they are doing.

mloc123

griffin100 wrote: »

I assume you entered them online as well then if they are that computer illiterate?

Jesus lads look at who the OP is - don't feed the troll

You have met Tango? The guy finds it hard to work a stop watch...

peter kern

Unregistered. wrote: »

How will the number of boats affect the decision? Where in the rules does it say that you can swim in sub 11 degree water temp if you have X number of boats.

It really doesn't matter how many people you see swimming in freezing water for any length of time. It doesn't matter how hard you are either. When there is a chance that the water will be too cold then some people may want to prepare for the alternative and give themselves a competitive advantage should it be a run-bike-run or whatever.

no safe water no swim ( and iam sure you are aware who decideds if swim is safe or not in a TI sanctioned race, ) but even if the water is safe they really make an effort to have as many boats available as possible.Becasue guess what the rule when water is safe is aobut as correct as 220 minus age is you max Hr )
those people that want the comptetive advantage have been preparing for years in genreral and weeks specifically for any possible scenario....

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

no safe water no swim ( and iam sure you are aware who decideds if swim is safe or not in a TI sanctioned race, ) but even if the water is safe they really make an effort to have as many boats available as possible.Becasue guess what the rule when water is safe is aobut as correct as 220 minus age is you max Hr )
those people that want the comptetive advantage have been preparing for years in genreral and weeks specifically for any possible scenario....

Just wondering do you call your favourite female athlete you coach Xena too?

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

peter kern wrote: »

This is the national championchips and not a beginner race every body racing their should be experienced and the ones that are not should not do an half in May.

Who are you or I to determine who can/cannot do a race, this is a race first & foremost which just happens to have the NC tag on it this year.
If you want to restrict entries to the NC to the experienced athletes table a motion at the TI AGM and see how that goes down, like a lead balloon i would imagine.

Huff n Puff

Fazz wrote: »

Official start list now published. .

http://www.trianmhi.com/index.php/news-and-events/latest-news/item/15-official-start-list-2013-tri-an-mhi-cxiii-kinetica-national-middle-distance-triathlon-championships

Competitive fields, should be a great race.

So Fazz, who is going to win this one? What are your own expectations?

Bambaata

Id a quick look there and would expect a top 5 at least from Fazz ;-) At least

Huff n Puff

Bambaata wrote: »

Id a quick look there and would expect a top 5 at least from Fazz ;-) At least

No pressure so!

Hard to tell at this time of year who is doing what. Not sure if many would be looking to peak for this race so it could be a surprise result. Fazz for the win!

Fazz

Huff n Puff wrote: »

So Fazz, who is going to win this one? What are your own expectations?

I'll leave a race/competitor analysis to your capable hands sir!

It's a competitive field, different strengths for different competitors so the race format could be a factor I think (full swim/medium swim/short swim/run/whatever it is). I'd prefer the former myself to utilise the winter pool hours but who knows and it is a long day so anything can happen.

I've made no secret that I'm shooting for the Podium this season. I'm out to show the progress I've made since last season as the duathlon champs was not reflective and that format didn't suit me.
For Tri an Mhi, I'd say the Top 5 won't be separated by much.

catweazle

Fazz wrote: »

I've made no secret that I'm shooting for the Podium this season. I'm out to show the progress I've made since last season as the duathlon champs was not reflective and that format didn't suit me.

Good man Fazz, always good to see someone call it as they see it, I hope you are rewarded for all the work you have put in this year

Huff n Puff

I think I will give the predictions a miss as I always seem to upset some people when making them. There are plenty of good lads in there. Even a top 10 result wouldn't be the end of the world, considering the talent.

If I was there I would be praying the swim is a full one. I think you need the full swim too to get up near the podium. Lots of top bike/runners in that field.

Making progress from top 10 to podium finishes can take a lot of time and effort. Don't be too disappointed if things don't go your way at the race as the season is long and as you know everyone at that level puts in serious training hours or has buckets of natural talent. There will be plenty of ups and downs along the way. Hopefully this will be a two steps forward race for you.

pgibbo

I know that Valentia had their swim cancelled. However, the swim in the Quiet Man went ahead so here's hoping that the conditions allow this swim to go ahead too. The Quiet Man swim was in fresh water too.